Yahoo/Google/MSN Serp Differences

[dartman]

I searched the forum but didn't really find a close answer.
On Google and MSN this site is listed on page 1 for kw: beaded jewelry
Jades Creations Handcrafted Beaded Jewelry
Site used to come up around page 7 in Yahoo but now it's somewhere in the great unknown.
The site Is indexed per Yahoo Explorer with 300 some-odd pages and 600 or so IBL.

You would think the serp would be generally the same across all 3 SE's so I don't understand the loss/lack of search result in Yahoo.

Opinions are greatly appreciated.
.

[SemAdvance]

Originally Posted by dartman

You would think the serp would be generally the same across all 3 SE's so I don't understand the loss/lack of search result in Yahoo.

Opinions are greatly appreciated.
.

Well first there are not three search engines.

One, Google is a search engine.

The other two, Msn & Yahoo, are both portals, with a search engine attached.

In addition Myspace is now 4th in search queries but it too is a portal, with search engine attached.

Oddly enough Google with all its new Apps Gadgets and websites is trying to become a portal.

While it would seem logical they would act the same way in the reality of the business world McDonalds operates a bit like Burger King which operates like Wendy's but all three have completely different tasting burgers and french fries.

If we all behaved the same way in this world it would be a very boring place to hang out for a lifetime ;->

While not answering your question directly as I am not sure and it would take a while to find out why Yahoo has changed..

One should never build a business that relies on organic search as its main source of traffic.

Sometimes search engines change things to see if it can combat a problem and will make mistakes in doing so....If this has just recently occurred you may need to give it some more time and see if things do not come back around for you.

Peace!

[webmax]

This is by no means gospel truth, just a suspicion... the company you are hosting with has something to do with it. Some search engines or portals or whatever, sometimes have shareholders in common with companies that offer hosting. Or they have some other business relationship. So maybe these SEs could be giving their friends' customers a better treatment. We have over the years optimized sites hosted in different countries and/or companies, sometimes with country-specific domains, sometimes not, and the result frequently is that those hosted with A do well on search engine X but not on Z, and those hosted on B perform the other way around. If anyone out there can confirm or deny this, please do so.

[wige]

Unless you have made major on-page changes, the drop in rank is likely due to changes in Yahoo's algorithms. Google focuses on offpage elements, with a secondary consideration for on page elements, and MSN does just the opposite, and I am unsure what Yahoo's priorities are based on, but they are focused much more on on-page factors than off.

Sem is right, in that Google is really the only company right now (other than Ask) with a primary focus on search. Yahoo was one of the first directories, then a search engine, and now has branched into more of a social networking / shopping / search site (yes a portal) in large part because Google has taken away a good portion of Yahoo's market share. Microsoft has tried many times to break into search and is still hanging on at third place (by most accounts). However, each of these search engines drives it's own traffic. Google draws most of the searches, but Yahoo and MSN each have their own audiences that can be very valuable as well, especially Yahoo, since their engine powers numerous other sites.

As far as the influence of a hosting company on the results, this is unlikely to have a drastic overnight effect like what you are describing. I haven't seen or heard of any evidence of this (other than hearing third-party reports of hosts being banned for hosting multiple domains that were considered unsavory, but this is typically the exception rather than the rule). I suspect that if there were any evidence (which would be hard to find) it would be a major scandal. As far as I know, though, there aren't any major hosting concerns on the board of directors of any of the big 3. Google is mostly mixed with Apple, Yahoo is most closely tied with their own hosting which is mostly free sites and small business hosting, a relatively small portion of their business and most likely not worth the risks of manipulating the results, and if Microsoft wants to crush a hosting company, I doubt they need to do anything with their search results. Also, if Yahoo or MSN were to do anything like this and get caught, they would lose their market share to Google, and if Google did so, they would lose the entire company which is primarily focused on search.

[craigmn3]

Above All Yahoo seems to favor Freshness of Content...any page of mine that is left stagnant for a while begins to sink in the rankings, when I add new content or otherwise refresh the page, it pops right back up

[mjtaylor]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

In addition Myspace is now 4th in search queries but it too is a portal, with search engine attached...

Where do you get that MySpace is #4?

comScore doesn't list it in its July 2007 results .. but perhaps they don't 'look' for it ... Nielsen doesn't inlcude MySpace either ... at least not in May 2007 reports


Dartman, the three SEs have never returned SERPs all that alike ... Google depends more on links and anchor text and Yahoo has more emphasis on content ... I don't know a thing about MSN except it's usually the first to rank a site/page ... or so it seems to me.

MJ

[visser]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

Well first there are not three search engines.

While it would seem logical they would act the same way in the reality of the business world McDonalds operates a bit like Burger King which operates like Wendy's but all three have completely different tasting burgers and french fries.

SemAdvance, were you hungry when you wrote that post?

Nice analogy though, the G unit, Y! and MSN are heading to portals. MySpace queries would likely be people or music searches not general terms... right?

Originally Posted by webmax

This is by no means gospel truth, just a suspicion... the company you are hosting with has something to do with it. Some search engines or portals or whatever, sometimes have shareholders in common with companies that offer hosting. Or they have some other business relationship.

webmax, shared-hosting environments are known to potentially cause issues in SERP listings-tbh, I'm yet to see a solid example explained (linky people...?)-if search engines have applied a ranking penalty to that host IP.

[dartman]

Thanks for the replies folks. The site in question is hosted at Earthlink so I think that the web host is a non-issue. I have 2 other sites also hosted at Earthlink and no problem with them.

I'm fully aware that G, Y and M operate differently. Frankly I'm happy we got the site to #1/2 in Google and #3 in MSN so I'd conclude we did something right. As I mentioned one would think that with this type of result that the same page would serp well on Yahoo also. Doesn't have to be #1 or Page 1 but when you're on Yahoo Page 7 and then vanish while maintaining the status quo at G and M one has to question what's going on.

[jpatriar]

My laundry bag site has done the same thing in Yahoo recently as well, vanished from like 4 to something like 300. Seems this all occured when I added the sitemap to yahoo's site explorer in mid August but could just be a coincidence.

The home page was originally for a brick and mortar wash dry fold service that was sold 9 months ago and all references for any laundry services were removed from the entire site.

Oddly, MSN has the new home page title listed but the old wash, dry fold description.

(Laundry Bags, Nylon, Mesh Laundry Bags, Laundry Bag Store Online
Provides professional wash, dry and fold, shirt, dry cleaning and pickup and delivery services.)

Google is fine and listed #2.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

One should never build a business that relies on organic search as its main source of traffic.

<sigh> I am so sick of seeing the "SEO types" and "internet marketing types" say that. While the rest of your post was great, with good info, that line is flawed. You types always lose site of the (should be) simple fact that not every site owner is a millionaire with a big name big money Fortune 500 website. The vast majority of site owners are like myself; poor, struggling to make ends meet, and trying to compete with the aforementioned.

We don't have millions to spend on advertising on TV, radio, magazines, newspapers, or online, etc. As far as the internet goes, people despise PopUps, ads and banners, and usually ignore them. The only meaningful place from which sales come is SEARCH ENGINES. Not ads, not directories, but search engines. Yes, your "organic results". Furthermore, those such as myself were put out of business on the local level by the billion-dollar store chains with their "disposable electronics", rebates, etc. Therefore we are reduced to selling online to those market areas that do not have said billion dollar chain stores. When someone wants to make a purchase online, they do not go to some directory, they do not look for ads, they do not look for banners, they do not go to some crappy SE that charges a fortune to be included, for those types of SE's are TAINTED. They go to search engines; google, Y, MSN, Ask, etc., for they know that's where they'll get the best information for which they are searching. There's no dodging or denying that fact.

So puh-leeze stop it with those comments about relying on organic searches. That's what all customers use, and for the overwhelming majority site owners, that's all there is.

[Clint1]

Oh, and Rick, all SE's rely on some form of flawed algo's, G of course more flawed that rest--Wige said it well about them placing all their importance of how others link to your site (off-page elements). All but the big-time websites will usually be popping all over the place SERP's (of course more so in G). Gone are the days of stability when long-standing business site owners were #1 in all SE's because of CONTENT (like myself with a decade old site), not like now with precedence on what OTHERS do so that your fate is out of your control (mostly of course with G). It all depends on your niche too. If there's big businesses in your niche, you'll usually end up losing to them in the SERP's, and the ironic thing is they don't even care about SE's.

Unfortunately, I doubt there is anyone that can tell you about your predicament except Y themselves. Just be thankful you got screwed by them and not by G since G has such a huge market share. Try creating another page or two like the one that got dumped. Block them from G and MSN, only allowing Y to access it. Try something different with the pages, like fewer word repetitions on one, more repetitions on another (i.e. "Beaded Jewelry"), that sort of thing. Make Beaded Jewelry the first words in your title tag, try putting it also in your keywords tag (I don't see it there), even if the SE's don't use that tag anymore. Mix it up, maybe you'll get lucky and find a version Y likes again......and if you do, let us know.

You also don't have a 301 redirect for the www and non-www versions of your pages. Pick the one that has the most IBL's or highest (gag) PR, then redirect the other version to that version. It wouldn't hurt.

[mc2]

I have found similar problems with loss of rankings on Y and found that I can be number 1 in major search engines / portals with 100's of top listings on G but none on Y except using full URL otherwise only sites that have links to us show up. Good for them...! The site is also in Y directory but I haven't found it yet except in pay per click section. I was told by Y a while ago that site has not been penalized in any way but spider couldn't find it or access ISP so they suggested changing hosting company. Major hosting company denied it was their problem and Y has not been able to resolve problem. Moving site may work if that is Y's problem but question is whether moving site is actually worthwhile for the sake of 1 search portal or could others be similarly affected elsewhere.

[dartman]

Originally Posted by Clint1

Unfortunately, I doubt there is anyone that can tell you about your predicament except Y themselves.

I don't actually consider Yahoo a predicament. Personally I never liked Yahoo that much but in the world of search it's one of the big 3. I will take a look at some onpage mods and see if that trips anything at Y. It's just interesting because Y has 300+ pages of the site indexed and roughly 12% of our traffic comes from them. 54% comes from Google so I'd guess you could figure where our priorities lie.

You made some interesting points in your post. Good job.

[dartman]

Originally Posted by SemAdvance

In addition Myspace is now 4th in search queries but it too is a portal, with search engine attached.!

"Enhanced or Powered by Google" which is basically the same as going direct to Google so in essence there is no difference. Good results in Google gets good results in other places as well.

AOL, MySpace, whats going to be next?

[kjohnson5576]

Enhanced by Google does not mean essentially the same results. When I checked AOL against Google for one of my key phrases, I'm number one on Google, page 1, but can't be found within the first 5 (or more) pages on AOL.

I think portals have other advertising arrangements going which skews results. That's the only explaination I can think of.

[incrediblehelp]

So the real problem here is that your not ranking at Yahoo. Do you interlink websites with any similar content?

I also agree with most posted on what each search engine like:

Google:
Primarily back link weighted. Spamming in this fashion and buying links can and still works easily, until you are caught by hand. Why do you think those like Matt Cutts keep trying to scare everyone to not by links. They cant seem to be able to stop the spammers, so until they fine tune the algo and stop weighting anchor text so much in back links spammers can win. of course highly authoritative websites also rank perfectly fine.

Yahoo:
Mixture of backlinks and content. I see that they also prefer more valid code. Don't internal link similar websites or form mini-networks. You will get caught

MSN:
Prefer fresh content to an extant. Like on-site factors heavily, but like the three above back links are are factor.

These are not bible above, but some findings on looking at hundreds of websites over time. I agree with Dartman that Yahoo does get such a small amount of traffic compared to Google you would do well to focus your efforts on ranking well on niche directories, relevant websites and blogs. Utilizing social media websites like StumbleUpon can also send some great traffic.

[dartman]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

So the real problem here is that your not ranking at Yahoo. Do you interlink websites with any similar content?.

We do not interlink. The real problem is that site NO LONGER appears to rank at yahoo despite 300+ pages indexed. Used to pop up on Page 7 or 8 for the primary keyword phrase. Now nada. When i search Yahoo using some lower priority, non-optimized keywords the site does appear in the rankings. Go figure.

There are times when one vanishes from Google only to reappear a day or so later. Possible this also happens at Yahoo?

FWIW Incred, we have started looking into other areas to market the site as you referenced. Thanks.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by dartman

I don't actually consider Yahoo a predicament. Personally I never liked Yahoo that much but in the world of search it's one of the big 3. I will take a look at some onpage mods and see if that trips anything at Y. It's just interesting because Y has 300+ pages of the site indexed and roughly 12% of our traffic comes from them. 54% comes from Google so I'd guess you could figure where our priorities lie.

You made some interesting points in your post. Good job.

Yes, G is always the major concern of most because it has the largest user share and that's where our priorities lie. I consider it a "predicament" if you don't want or can't stand to lose 12% of your traffic or sales. If you can stand to lose that, then I guess it's not. But hopefully this is just something temporary.

[dartman]

Thanks for the replies folks. Today the site shows search results on Yahoo Page 30/31. (progress? lol). Interestingly I looked for another site that is #3 on Google and did not find them in the first 30 pages of Yahoo. Contagious?

Will work in some of the suggestions here and monitor the results.