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Yahoo! Discussion Forum Yahoo Search discussion. Any topic or subject specific to Yahoo should go here. You will also find a subforum dedicated to YPN & Panama.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2007, 10:29 AM
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melchapman melchapman is offline
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Default Yahoo and Penalties

OK... First of all... Hello and good day!

I posted this in a different forum and haven't gotten a response. I am hoping that someone may have an answer here.

Here is what I posted:

Before my client, was actually a client, he unknowingly got involved in what Yahoo finally figured out to be a link farm. The hosting company was encouraging all of their clients to link with one another.

Once Yahoo determined this, 1000's of sites were blacklisted and lost their rankings completely. The big crash was some time around July of last year and the sites (I have several clients with this hosting company) have still not recovered AT ALL. Even the ones that are not my clients and have been worked on by other professionals. The site is still in the index and in the directory. Since this penalty his rankings in Google, MSN, and Yahoo have also dropped.

My suggestion to him was to start a new site with a new hosting company under a new domain name. This way the bad taste that Yahoo has about the existing site will not longer be there because it is a completely new site.

It will consist of the same information, but it will be organized and optimized to the extent it should be. That is why I was hired in the first place.

Now here are my questions.

When do I have the existing domain transfered, and if it is transfered with a 301 redirect, will Yahoo see the new site to be the old one and carry over the penalties? Did that make sense? What if I contacted the site owners of the good backlinks and ask them to change the URL and anchor text?

Also... I have notice that Yahoo and MSN are usually the first to begin ranking new sites. With this in mind... if the existing domain that has a good PR is redirected to the new site... will the existing PR be transfered as well?

Also... which domain name should be submitted to the search engines once the new site is up and running. I say the new domain should be submitted and the old one should 301 to the new one so that the site looks fresh (which it will be) and without bad seo techniques?

Please tell me if these questions are asked correctly and if there is anything wrong with my plan... please say so. I don't want to do this wrong!

Thanks in advance and hope to hear from anyone soon!

PS... if it helps any, the domain name is www.frankelrealtygroup.com
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Old 03-08-2007, 10:58 AM
Gennady Gennady is offline
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All you have to do is switch hosts, get rid of all the links and ask for re-inclusion.

But in the case of Yahoo, you may need to pay them for Search Submit Basic and pay $49 per URL.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gennady
All you have to do is switch hosts, get rid of all the links and ask for re-inclusion.

But in the case of Yahoo, you may need to pay them for Search Submit Basic and pay $49 per URL.
What do you mean? "Get rid of all the links." You mean delete them from his site? Wouldn't that make it to where there would be inbound links out there?
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:19 AM
Gennady Gennady is offline
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You do not have direct control of who links to you. You do not want to exchange links with blacklisted sites on bad IPs.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:31 AM
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Very true!

It would be good to go through the ones that link to him on the old URL and contact them to change the anchor test and have the URL point to the new site... right?
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:40 AM
Gennady Gennady is offline
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I'm sorry, your posts are a little disjointed so I'm having trouble fully understanding.

Anchor text is the text within the hypertext link. It does not denote where the link goes.

What new site are you talking about?

You are giving way too much value to these reciprocal links. I would wager very few if any come from sites relevant to yours.

I believe it is time for you to take (not just 1 but) a few steps back and do a little research into SEO, links, link building, and webmaster guidelines.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gennady
I'm sorry, your posts are a little disjointed so I'm having trouble fully understanding.
I do apologize for the confusion in my explanations. Sometimes my mind goes faster than what I get down and it gets all tangled up.

Quote:
Anchor text is the text within the hypertext link. It does not denote where the link goes.
Yes... I clearly understand this. I did not explain that one of the biggest problems is the theme of his links. I need to change the anchor text as well as the URL. I know that the text does not denote where the link goes... but it does matter what the anchor text is and what page it goes to.

Quote:
What new site are you talking about?
At this point... I believe that will all the coding issues, linking issues, organization issues, (the list goes on) that it would be in the best intrest of my client to start fresh with a new hosting company and to get away from the stench that Yahoo smells about every site that is involved with this company.

Quote:
You are giving way too much value to these reciprocal links. I would wager very few if any come from sites relevant to yours.
No sir... I do not care about the reciprocals... I am thinking about the inbound links that are still being recognized by the search engines, whether they are reciprocals or not. I do very little reciprocal linking and if I do it is with local sites and those who are relevant to his market.

Quote:
I believe it is time for you to take (not just 1 but) a few steps back and do a little research into SEO, links, link building, and webmaster guidelines.
Sir... with all due respect... I believe that it is because I did not fully explain myself that you would think that my tactics and thoughts may be a little off. So I hope with these explanations... you will clearly see that I have done my research and I have taken not just a few, but several steps back to think about what is in the best interest of my client.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:26 PM
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As far as being themed or on-topic links, it takes more than the keyword in the anchor text to denote relevance.

Otherwise, you pretty much got it. As I said in my first reply, change the host, remove any links you having going out to those other sites hosted on that server and submit a re-inclusion request.

This is the only option. Any hosting company that recommends that does not deserve anyone's business as they are only looking for self- and cross-promotion.
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Old 03-08-2007, 12:35 PM
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I know the establishing a theme takes much more than just the linking. I was just saying that this is one of his main problems which is the links.

Changing the host means changing companies.

You don't even know half of it when it comes to the company we are dealing with right now. Their tactics are unethical when it comes to selling their marketing packages and what it is they do.

That is another reason why I am trying to get most of my clients with this company to change over. Because like I said... the stinch is not just with my client's site... but everyone that has a site with these people that participated in what they suggested as well as the company themselves and Yahoo.

Thanks for your input and I hope I made myself a little clearer.

One more thing...

What about the domain names? If I 301 redirect the old domain... will the penalties go along with it or will Yahoo see that the site has been reworked?
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Old 03-08-2007, 05:16 PM
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Default Changing Hosts

I had a similar problem went from .com to .net and posted it on www.altavista.com and Google. Within 2-3 days I was back at the top of the page rankings for my keywords.
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Old 03-08-2007, 05:59 PM
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if you want more info on the advance access problem search on here www.realestatewebmaster.com. i use this site also for info on seo
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:12 PM
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The redirect MAY hurt you. Hard to say. Just be sure to do a robot file to tell the bot NOT to index the old pages and to NOT follow the links. Keep them from figuring out where you have moved to. :)
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fort Worth Realtor
if you want more info on the advance access problem search on here www.realestatewebmaster.com. i use this site also for info on seo
Whoa... what have you heard? Did you used to have an AA site?
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default Yahoo and sophistication

Hmmm. Is Yahoo really that sophisticated that it can track down all the participants to a reciprocal link trade? And classify it so bad that the participants are banned? I don't think so. You don't (normally) get banned from Yahoo unless you're a really bad boy. The odd $49 won't solve the problem. Neither will a redirect. Essentially a redirect takes the bad smell with it. What's the real reason your client(s)'s site was (were) banned? When you can answer that, you can begin to solve the problem.

I suggest you start again.
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Yahoo and sophistication

Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdon
Hmmm. Is Yahoo really that sophisticated that it can track down all the participants to a reciprocal link trade? And classify it so bad that the participants are banned? I don't think so. You don't (normally) get banned from Yahoo unless you're a really bad boy. The odd $49 won't solve the problem. Neither will a redirect. Essentially a redirect takes the bad smell with it. What's the real reason your client(s)'s site was (were) banned? When you can answer that, you can begin to solve the problem.
I do agree with dburdon. I doubt the Yahoo is that sophisticated to do the tracking. To help your client, you will definitely need to dig deeper and find the main cause for the ban. Then you will be able to help your client to clear the mess.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:01 PM
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Default Yahoo and Penalties

Yes, well maybe Yahoo! might not be that sophisticated although you can be sure they will be someday if they are not already, all you link farmers out there are doomed and you know it. However, did it occur to you guys that someone just reported to them the fact that the site in question was using LINK FARMS to get good ranks? Duh?!

Anyone want some real SEO consulting can contact me at doug@seonow.us. I'm always glad to help.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Yahoo and sophistication

Quote:
Originally Posted by dburdon
Hmmm. Is Yahoo really that sophisticated that it can track down all the participants to a reciprocal link trade? And classify it so bad that the participants are banned? I don't think so. You don't (normally) get banned from Yahoo unless you're a really bad boy. The odd $49 won't solve the problem. Neither will a redirect. Essentially a redirect takes the bad smell with it. What's the real reason your client(s)'s site was (were) banned? When you can answer that, you can begin to solve the problem.

I suggest you start again.
I never said the site was banned... it had been penalized. And yes... Yahoo figured it out!

Read this post on http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/thread8680.html. The main thing I want you to look at is this:

"As it pertains to Yahoo! you might want to consider who you are linking to and vice-versa if you are building state pages. Advanced Access (including Greg Boser aka WebGuerrilla who they have hired as a consultant) is telling their clients to remove the links on state pages. This is because of a penalty that has dropped most of these sites drastically. One site that was ranked on #1 on Yahoo! last week is now in the 180's. Over 30,000 sites have been affected.

Here is an exerpt of a rather lengthy email they sent last week to their Premium Marketing Package Owners:

********************************************

As your Website Marketing Specialist, I am advising you that your Realtor to Realtor links on your "States Pages" be deleted right now to help your search engine rankings. These link are not helping you and need to be deleted.

This is obviously big news and I know it may seem very frightening to do. The main point here is that peer to peer linking is not valuable to your search engine rankings and is harming you. Please let me know at once if I can remove these links for you. I would be more than happy to take care of the work for you.

What Has Led To This Advisement?

In March of this year we became concerned (as many of our Marketing Package clients did) about current Yahoo rankings for those in our Advanced Access family. We performed many tests on our network to slowly experiment if we could change anything for the better on our clients rankings. Those experiments were varied and included removing links from sites, changin g our server configuration, and moving sites around on different IP blocks. With the exception of a week in April and three weeks in May when all rankings suddenly came back, only to drop again, we remained concerned. While it is true that many other real estate websites that are not affiliated with Advanced Access were no longer in the Top 10 of Yahoo's search results, we have so many fantastic websites that it was baffling that the rankings were gone so suddenly."

But I really want you to pay attention here: This was written by Real Estate Webmasters - Jay Griffin

"In short, the reason for this penalty was confirmed by a Yahoo! employee and it was implemented by IP address. Over 32,000 AA template sites are on one IP and only a few survived. For example:
1) debbieferrari.com had been ranked #1 for years on Yahoo! for the term "orange county real estate." Today it is #189 even though it's attempting to comply.
2) phxrealestate.com, which is on the same IP, has not been been penalized and this is probably because their state pages are presented and named differently.
3) Ken Smith (suburbanhousehunters.com) is on the same IP and he uses the same naming convention as debbieferrari.com. There is nothing wrong with his state pages, but he's taken a hit.

Right now it's a penalty. Tomorrow the sites in the AA network that do not comply could be construed as a "bad neighborhood." You are getting a heads up. Take it, or leave it."

So there is your evidence that all the sites that were participating had a penalty put on them.

You ansered my question about the redirect... THANK YOU! It is as I thought it would be... but had to be sure.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:14 PM
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One more thing dburdon... I was the one that put the bug in this companies ear that there was a problem. They didn't even notice it until I said something. Needless to say... I am no longer part of their Virtual Assistant network.
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Old 03-08-2007, 11:15 PM
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Actually, Yahoo has gotten pretty sophisticated, and in some ways overly sensitive. It should not be underestimated. I have two mom and pop sites with the same owner that both got penalized by Yahoo (Yahoo verified that the sites had been penalized) because one of them (the older of the two sites) was involved in link exchanging several years back and then the old site sat there essentially abandonned but not taken down so the old link exchange was still visible. It had a few (non-excessive and topically related) links to the newer site, so Yahoo whacked both of them. The one newer site does well in Google and MSN but in Yahoo, neither site is indexed past the home page. I know the one newer site is clean, because I rebuilt it from scratc