Yahoo - pay or disappear

[RJ95]

Our site has been in the Yahoo directory for years. It places #1 and #5 in Google's organic results even though we cancelled our Google AdWords program.

When Yahoo switched to SiteMatch, we signed up but have since paused the program after complaining about the 8 spam and redirect sites that were placing ahead of ours. At least 3 months ago we were told "Spammers are being blacklisted as they are found." The same spam sites are still there in the results.

Since stopping the SiteMatch program our site has disappeared from the Yahoo search results yet remains in the directory. The same is true for MSN and other Overture sites.

Any similar experiences out there?

[cbp]

paused the program after complaining about the 8 spam and redirect sites that were placing ahead of ours

Participating in Site Match does not get you a better ranking

CBP

[RJ95]

Doesn't Yahoo supposedly still provides organic search results? Once we stopped paying, our site is nowhere to be found in the Yahoo search results.

[jbgilbert]

rj,

Lots of reported problems with yahoo indexing and crawling as of late.

Communicating via email with the search engines appears not to be effective and canned responses seem to be all they will supply.

It there something you can do to help yourself out? Probably not...

[glengara]

The old Inktomi also used to temporarily drop sites that stopped PFI, old habits maybe...

[catalinmerfu]

I thought it's official that Yahoo is a pay search engine. They keep some free old sites so people have reason to use the service but new sites must pay.

Yahoo is way behind Google in search results quality. I was indexed by Google 3 days after I went live but I'm not on Yahoo even after 3 months.

[EJRS.COM]

reality bites [back]

if you show me the money then i'll show you the stuff
but if u have no money then you're out in a puff
you slam the door behind you and walk off in a huff
this life can be rather cruel and tough
there'll be days when you think that you've had enough
better hang on coz this journey's gonna get rough

- by ejrs himself ;)

[suewh]

I've been listed in Yahoo for years and I was just there yesterday looking around the PAY sections and decided against. I'm glad I did now. I'm afraid to mess with it.

[chowell]

We've experienced the same thing with a Yahoo listing. The day after Yahoo integrated the Overture Site Match program, this site was nowhere to be found. Prior to this integration, Yahoo ranked our site listing similar to Google.

We have dealt w/ Yahoo & Position Tech for the Site Match program to try to find an answer, but haven't seen/heard anything that specifically explains why the site has virtually disappeared.

This particular site has regular Overture account, a Yahoo Directory listing, and several listings in Yahoo Content Partner feeds.

Still, no explanation for the site disappearing.

[corporateface]

I disagree strongly.
Corporate Face doesn't use PPC programs for ourselves or our customers. The search engine companies are smart enough to know that if they go to strictly paid inclusion then the relevancy of their search engine will go down dramatically.

I, for one, don't click on sponsored links. Also, in consulting with clients, I find that most of my clients don't click on those either.

In the original post. The site mentioned in the original post is not ranking well for reasons other than a Yahoo stong arm (IMO).

What is the site so that we can evaluate if for you.

Keith Barnett
free custom website design
www.corporateface.com

[unrealstudio]

RJ,

Have a couple of clients with the same problem. Their rankings were great, but after joining Yahoo Site Match and tested for a couple of months they decided to cancel the entire campaign. I noticed that Site Match results were getting ahead and the organic listings were disappearing from the Yahoo database. We were loosing 3 to 4 keywords (positions) per day.

It took almost 9 months to achieve these positions and now they are all gone.

[corporateface]

Remember that a high rank in Google does not equal a high rank in yahoo, msn, or anywhere. Different engines, different algorithms

Keith Barnett
Free Custom Website Design
www.corporateface.com

[glengara]

*I thought it's official that Yahoo is a pay search engine.*

Not quite......yet. ;-)

[pnewell9]

I have an affiliate site <<url removed by mod>> that has 22 pages, so far. On 8/05/2004, Google dropped 21 or my 22 pages ! The only page that survived was the Home page and it's still listed. Not sure if this is related to what you're talking about, here, but it sure rang a bell! Pete

<<moderator's comment: we're talking about Yahoo!, not Google. Please stay on-topic.>>

[geoffreygag]

RJ, you shouldn't be surprised with Yahoo SiteMatch.

After the recent merger, and SiteMatch launch Yahoo never made any promises for position. In fact, Site Match only promised you to get listed within reasonable grounds.

I made a $50 test (which I lost) with Site Match. I was listed in the #1 position in Yahoo. Overture cost for the #1 position was .10 cents.

With Site Match, they placed a secondary page in the 8th position under same search term and ( don't fall off your seat) they charged me .40

Obviously it was a total lost. But as I said earlier, I was testing to see what effect it had on the other 130 pages on the site.

[jennyr]

We had a similar experience, but the ultimate cause was not Site Match. To make a long story short, we were dropped from the directory, and thus dropped from the search results because we quit paying for a sponsored listing, not due to site match. The key lesson we learned too late is that Yahoo will find any excuse to drop a grandfathered directory listing.

For anyone interested, here are the details on our story.

Around the same time we tried site match, we also tried paying for a sponsored listing. Neither program worked. We cancelled the sponsored listing, and maybe a month later we cancelled site match. Within a week of cancelling site match, we were no longer listed in search results.

I was certain it was due to site match, and had many discussions with Inktomi. They were adament it wasn't. After some heated discussions with Inktomi, they spoke to Yahoo and told us we weren't in the directory. At this point, you could find us in a directory search, but not by browsing through the directory.

Several discussions then ensued with the directory folks. They told us that their policy was that if you cancel a sponsored listing, they cancel your entire directory entry, unless you've paid to be in the directory. Because we had a grandfathered directory listing, we were dropped and there was no way back in without paying. This is in direct conflict with their terms of participation in the sponsored listing program, and with the assurances on their web site that changes in sponsored listings would not impact the directory listings. This policy is both deceptive and unethical, but in the end we had no choice but to pay to be in the directory.

It was odd that our search results disappeared first, then site directory. But once we paid, we were back in both. If you are no longer in search results, do check your directory listing.

[corporateface]

Maybe I need to stand corrected, if experience is a teacher.

I personally haven't experienced these things, but obviously some (or many) have.

Keith Barnett
Free Custom Website Design
www.corporateface.com

[eddennis]

Nothing gets YAHOOED but things get GOOGLED! Yahoo auctions handle 1/10,000 the listing of ebay! The only leadership position Yaho has ever had is email addresses and they will find a way to screw that up soon.

They are desperate to find a niche they can dominate. They have lost "search engines", auctions, etc. I wouldn't bet a dime on theiri long term chances! I think you can get even by just hiding and watching. They will go down!

[RJ95]

I am totally confused now. I was prompted to post here due to an article in the WebProNews Email letter that indicates Yahoo still had "organic" listings (non-pay)that could be improved w/SEO:

"If you consider some of the stories that have stemmed from Site Match and paid inclusion, you have to wonder if it is worth the effort. One of the first things to keep in mind about paid inclusion as a whole is that once you stop paying for the service, your listing will probably get removed. NFFC, a member at the SearchEngineWatch forums tells another poster, "paid URL's come from a different database, stop paying and poof you are gone. If the site "deserves" to be in the real database then you should come back pretty quickly."

That's the catch with Site Match and other paid inclusion programs (not that there are very many remaining). If you are willing to pay, you will receive a search engine ranking because of your investment. And once you stop payments, its bye-bye SERP position.

However, even if you do join, there is no guarantee you will receive the top rankings. To emphasize this thought, "eragon" offers a synopsis of an article by Danny Sullivan that discusses Site Match placement: "I read Danny Sullivan's article the other day on how to (interpret) the URLs in the SERPs to determine which are paid and which are not. In his example, the paid-for's were scattered on the first page, so at least they're not taking over the top spots."

Enter at your own discretion. If you are willing to continue to pay for Yahoo's service, you will be listed. Although, the argument can be made that it would just be easier to optimize your site's content and have one or two relevant and valuable links pointing to your site. I guess the answer depends on the how much work you are willing to do to appear in Yahoo's index."

[J-Spider]

Here is what I think happens...

After joining site match your website gets moved into a separate database of "site match" clients and removed from the natural organic listings. Thus when you stop paying for site match your site will be gone from the organic listings temporarily until you are re-indexed.

This will cost you some time and money.

However, this could be real bad...

Worse case scenario, your competitor submits your website to site match for a month and then cancels the account... *BOOM*... your out of the listings. what if this happened to you during Christmas or some other major "sales oriented" holiday. Bad news.

[DrTandem1]

SiteMatch/Overture is nothing more than a database. I had one client, that was in Yahoo's directory, but not in their organic search results. They were already ranking highly in Google's organic results. After paying to be in the Overture data base, they were then indexed in Yahoo and MSN, but did not place anywhere that I could find in the search results.

Although I advised against it, the client used PPC for Yahoo (Overture). They were immediately listed in the sponsored links. During this month or so of sponsored listings in Yahoo, sales did not increase. I examined their click-through logs and they were obviously fraudulent clicks. This was brought to Overture's attention and nothing was done and nothing was credited.

The PPC campaign was terminated. For a while, they were no longer found in Yahoo. Then mysteriously, they appeared in the organic listings with a ranking similar to those on Google. Yet, sales only increased slightly. From this information, I concluded that for this client:

-PPC is a waste on Yahoo
-You don't need to pay to be in Yahoo's organic listings
-Google generates more quality traffic than does Yahoo via the organic results


Your results may vary.

[jseamless]

After six months yahoo has finally updated their index. My site is a PR 5 with over 100 backward links.

What I don’t like is you must scroll down half through the page to get to the organic search results. Or they moving away from true organic search or is it just me???

They appear not to be really interested in search more about immediate profits from advertising.

[crankydave]

Sitematch, as I'm sure you're all aware, only indexes the specific URL submitted. Your site is not spidered. Submitting each an every URL would be a tedious and expensive task.

I submitted 2 of my URL's to sitematch. My homepage and an internal page. Recently, I found both my sitematch homepage and my organic homepage on the first page of results, #2 and #4, on a search. Within 24-36 hrs. my organic search placement disappeared leaving only the sitematch placement at #2.

Take this for what you will...

1. My sitematch page almost always ranked much higher than my organic page even though the content was exactly the same. (when I was able to find both)

2. When both the sitematch and organic results appeared, it was a very short amount of time before the organic results disappeared leaving only the sitematch result.

Dave