Ok, since our rep system has been such a huge issue for some of our members, I'm putting it up for a vote as to whether or not we keep the system or disable it for everyone.

Here's your chance to either save it, or banish it to the eternal darkness of our servers.

This poll will remain open until 12:00 pm (EST) Friday July 31 2009.

No

is better than

No Way, It Sucks! (That is leading IMO).

You may mean me. It can be a hugher issue for other members and visitors.

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For the record, I don't care.. But I was one of those that said before it rolled out that this would happen.. People get in to petty little battles over pixels and then drag friends and bystanders in to the mix..

If anything, I would remove the anonymous factor and make it so that all rep given has that person's name next to it.. This does help keep things calmer and makes people really think about tossing red rep around..

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Steve : Animal Charms Animal Jewelry | Fishing Blog
I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off of this plan.

Fair enough, I changed it to just no.

I would agree. I still think it is immature and petty to care about pixels. But obviously 2 members do. I do find it funny that this thread is brought up from a very very small % of the membership here whining tho.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

It allows the members of the forum to flag people they think are spammers, attacking people, abusive, non-helping are just stupid.

I personally think it is a good system however like any system it’s up for abuse.

I’ve noticed post by people that have nothing to do with the thread and then at a glance I see the red and know they have a history of such posting.

I thought it was sad that old members who had contributed to WebProWorld early days had to start over fresh not getting credit for past post but…

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I agree, the anonymous factor allows members to abuse the system.

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1. Show me a place where you have disagreed with Feydakin and Dave.
2. I would be very skeptical if you always agreed with them on more important problems, e.g. exception handling.
3. Isn't that funny?
4. Now it started in the break room Williamc.
5. Dave want it delegated to its own sub forum.
6. Had to answer before logging out.
7. Have a nice day.
8. This is luxury (problems / questions).

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Just for the record (not that I was included) but Dave and I disagreed on something yesterday however he saw the error in his ways and came around sadly Feydakin never did.

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Show me a place where you and deepsand have disagreed since you believe that has some meaning. FTR... I don't think there's anyone who has ever agreed with me 100% of the time, and I have disagreed with whole lot of members including the ones you mention.

Yes... I wanted I wanted the discussion off the boards. On the boards all it did was was erupt into flames and/or needless derail otherwise good threads.

I created a place (off the boards) where you could discuss away and not hijack other discussions. You chose not to use it and instead, continue to hijack and disrupt other threads instead as well as start more threads destined to erupt into flames.

You kgun. You have been doing that and continue to do that.

I have no problem with the rep system.

I just think it's sad that so few have driven this to the point that this is even neccessary.

No, none of this is funny.

Dave

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I am sick of the whole rep thing. red Green or any other colour.

I will be perfectly content with the old MVP status

DUMP IT. **gone to vote**

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I would not automatically blame two particular members. I emailed admin asking if I could opt out of the rep situation. I shall take a guess and suggest my request was a contributing factor.

It has become a pointless distraction.
Excellent new members can lack that authoritive looking green bar.
Old members that should be pals are squabbling over pissy little resentments.

Old members can give each other 10 points at a time. . new members give 1 point at a time. The green get greener.

how many members are we going to get in this thread with just one green blob? have we created a green class that is superior - I do not think so . .

but it looks that way!

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All of us disagree with each other on quite a few topics.. But we tend to agree with each more often than not because we work together on a nearly daily basis.. The difference is that when we disagree with each other we talk / argue it out until one of us is convinced the other is right, or we both decide to just agree to disagree..

That doesn't seem to happen very often with other people on the forum.. There is a need, a desire even, to be "right" and seen as the guru that many people have.. And no end of discussion will ever convince them that they just might be wrong about something.. Its a shame really..

I disagree with a lot of what you say, but I find things to agree with you on as well.. My guess is that we think different because of the culture we were brought up in.. Dave and I were brought up in very similar ways, and have similar work histories, what with being jewelers and all, so we tend to agree on quite a bit.. You were brought up completely different than I was so we see things differently, the language issue doesn't help either.. But to assume that we always agree with each other because we don't tear in to each other on the forums is a little silly, don't you think??

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Steve : Animal Charms Animal Jewelry | Fishing Blog
I'm smelling a whole lot of if coming off of this plan.

Need I reply? Good post.

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So, you posted just to whine some more and insult other members. Nothing else in that post than that for content. As far as I am aware that is directly in violation of WPW ToS, correct?

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William Cross
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Gosh, I thought us girls were bad but you guys make us look like angels,… the kind that wear halos!

Hi RAH!! If this is what it takes to get you to the break-room then keep the system!

Let’s see…

Pros:

• I’m thinking…
• It is a distraction from work. Well, maybe that is a CON.

Cons:

• It brings out the child in grown-ups, oh, wait that might be considered a PRO.
• In some cases it is obviously not a true representation of a member’s value. Oh, wait that could be me.

Hmmm, two so far for CON.

You know, at first I didn’t like the sound of the system, it seemed so, so childish and unprofessional but I supported Admin’s decision. Many others expressed the same sentiment but we didn’t have a choice.

Now, we have a choice and even though the predicted negative aspects have been disrupting it somehow is disappointing to think that the twisted, perverted fun will be lost.

I guess flipping a coin would not work. It just isn’t democratic; it takes the participation out of the members’ hands.

See, this is why I am not Admin… although I bet their lounge is much better!

Hmm, the ‘I Don’t Care Either Way’ is out voting the other options at this point. I could tie the vote. Or vote’ I don’t care’ and force Admin to make the decision, but it was their decision which caused the mess in the first place so perhaps that is not such a good idea.

Does anybody want to buy my vote?

Hello to you too. I'm always around on the forum, and fairly easy to contact. I just don't post unless I'm needed for something or directly talked to.

I suppose I should post more to be seen...

Rah: Couldn't hurt

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

I voted yes, for no more reason than a lesson my Dad and uncle taught me many years ago.
My cousin and I came to blows every time we were in the same county together, and predictably, our parents tired of it. I think it might have been my Dad's idea (since I usually came out on top) to lock us in the barn, and forbid us to come out, until our differences were settled, once and for all.

Took us most of the day, a torn ear on my cousin, and a borderline concussion on my part, but we finally discovered the wisdom of it.

Besides, we got hungry.

It seems silly to me, that a group of supposed adults would turn a very useful feature for visitors and new members, into an excuse for childish behavior.

Perhaps we need more adult supervision?

Incidently, I think the idea of showing the donor of rep points is outstanding!

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lol doc!

Actually, there is a "barn". Just can't lock anyone in it (though i'd like to ) Only show them the door...

http://www.webproworld.com/groups/red-rep-rangers.html

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

Doc: Dave offered anyone with problems with rep a forum to vent. As usual tho, the very small group of whiners often will not do things out in the open, but rather do them behind the scenes, or in a way that they can disrupt other peoples threads. This really nothing new. It is textbook psych, in fact, for people with low self esteem.

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William Cross
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One could very well make the case for that being most descriptive of the Red Rep Raiders.

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not sure what you mean DS

Dave

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I rest my case.

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William Cross
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still unsure about what you mean DS. I hope you'll clarify.

Dave

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Well, I don't really have a horse in this race, 'cause I haven't managed to get any red rep yet (I stress YET, 'cause bein' a wise***, it's pretty much inevitable!). And I haven't given any yet, either. When I give green, I try to remember to give the person my "name" and tell them why. If I ever DO find myself unable to resist the temptation to give someone red, I'll absolutely tell 'em who I am, and why.

Seems to me that to do otherwise kind of defeats the whole purpose of the thing.

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Doc, I must say I love that tagline

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William Cross
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I say keep it. If I see red I just don't take the person seriously. I do think there should be attribution, in particular for red. For me personally, I contribute or don't based on subject. If I get rep great if not it's fine too.

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deepsand... As one of the most vocal critics (if not the most) of the rep system, I guess I'm surprised you prefer being derisive behind the scenes rather than openly discuss the matter when given the opportunity.

This has been what you've been most vocal about.

Dave

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IMO, with a master course in statistics it is more important to get a representative poll than closing it on a certain date.

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Doesn't seem to be helping you here much Can inbound links really hurt you?

May want to retake that course

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William Cross
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Ok here is mine:

1. What is a random sample from a population? My answer. All of the (active?) members get a number and are picked randomly to vote. Most probably you and I would not have been picked to vote.
2. Multiple voting e.g. by multiple accounts must be excluded. You are a programmer. May be you can give your input here.
3. Not being able to see the results before you vote.
4. IMO the original poll was wrong - leading. I would have voted no if the second option was only no. Initially it was (see second post: No Way, It Sucks!) I used the third alternative. No big problem, but slightly biased the more the lesser the poll is.
5. This thread should have been closed for comments. Only voting.
6. If lobbying / campaining is allowed, as it is with parliament elections, comments should have been delegated to another thread.

Other members may add other criteria.

The first and second objection is by far the most serious, and for that reason the number of votes should increase to correct that bias. Why not let the thread go on or start a new one once this is closed where the above criteria is used? As more and more members give a unique vote, the sample point estimate will converge to the true population statistic.

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I'll share my opinion kgun...

1. It should have never been neccesary to start this poll to begin with.
2. The only reason this poll got started was because of the vociferousness of 2 members, one of whom fired the first salvo that started all this nonsense.

Dave

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Anyone who cares about someone else's reputation can soon make up their own minds after spending some time on this forum. I don't believe we need a system whereby those who are more popular get the most reputation given to them. We already have this sort of system in politics where people are elected based on celebrity status rather than on education, merit or integrity. Having a 'popularity-based reputation' just gives new members encouragement to not read more posts and trust those who have higher scores. This is all counter-productive and misleading in my opinion. We need more educated members, not more sheep. I say get rid of the popularity contest and let reputation fall on those who deserve it by way of their contributions.

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I'm a little confused, I just registered here but having come from other forums with reputation systems in place I've always been under the impression that green/good rep is given to those who make valuable posts, are helpful in one way or another, have significantly relevant info or input to share. On the other hand red/bad rep is given to those who stray from the topic, make non-relevant posts, are unhelpful, chime into posts just to boost post counts or are just trolls.

Naturally I think a forum like this should have a rep system, but obviously it's being abused by people who do not know how to properly utilize it (at least not by my presumed above criteria). IMO those abusing it must be rather immature.

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James Cabrera - Web & Graphic Designer

Derisive? Any derision that might be inferred from my sole prior post here owes to such being incorporated by reference to the one above it.

If you find such offensive, then look to the candle, not the mirror.

As for the meaning of such post, considering all that's gone before, I cannot bring myself to accept that you fail to understand.

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I posted derisive "behind the scenes". Are you denying such? Please do so... directly... if that is what you are contending or suggesting.

Dave

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deepsand... you and I both know what started all this nonsense. So don't play games.

Dave

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If you mean rep. posts such as "not so sure it should be deepsand more like dipstick!," "ummm lay off the crack pipe...," "Ummm, tard points awarded.," "... you are just being anal...," "just stupid posting," "I think you make baby jesus sad," or "every time you type, a kitten dies, you bastard!!," I can honestly say that I've no recollection of every doing likewise.

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Indeed I do.

The genesis of this dispute was the inability of a certain few to accept the fact that their argued position was not adequately substantiated. In their frustration, they resorted to attempting to use the rep. system as a means of harassment, hoping to thusly intimidate those who stood against them.

And, they were subsequently emboldened by your public display of support for such manipulation of the rep. system.

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I think we should do green only and if a new poster is 'out of hand', the post could simply be reported....

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You are the one who openly publicly endorsed such use of the rep. system.

And, you are the one who said that anyone dissatisfied with such should "take it to administration."

Seems to me that you've no grounds for now complaining.

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No, I mean anonymous red rep comments like "bullshitter" and "piss poor sense of ethics" that you dropped on Feb 2nd and (shortly after) that started all this nonsense deepsand.

Does that refresh your recollection?

An anonymous red YOU dropped that started all this bullshit. And what describes what you did, in your own words...

Did you not read the pop-up after (your words) "having the courage nor the intellectual stamina required for publicly defending..." when you gave that anonymous red rep?

It said...

"May you be lucky enough to receive the same reputation in return"

Guess what... that's what you got and you didn't like it. You "reap what you sow" deepsand.

Shall we start going over the PM's I've received from you and others, the ones you've been sending that have been forwarded to me, the rep comments you have leaving for others that have been not only posted but forwarded to me as well?

Careful what you wish for... you may get it.

YOU have been whining and complaining about hiding behind anonymity and it is EXACTY WHAT YOU DID TO BEGIN WITH that started all this childish nonsense!

Whining and complaining about violation of TOS when what you were whining and complaining about is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID THAT STARTED THIS!

DO NOT EVEN TRY to play martyr or victim with me!

YOU started all this nonsense months ago. That does not condone any subsequent behavior. But trying to play "Mr Innocent" and manipulate or mislead members of this community is an insult to not only this community but to all of those you have misled, tried to mislead, who defended you, and who called you friend.

Including me.

Dave

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For sake of argument, as I make no pretense at remembering what I did nearly 6 months ago, assume that I did red rep. someone way back then.

What has that to do with 4 or 5 members colluding to engage in a continuous red attack against myself or any other?

To say "That does not condone any subsequent behavior" after having publicly endorsed such behavior is most disingenuous.

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What a crock.

You, by your own actions, the very actions that, you "claim" you make no "pretense at remembering", start this nonsense and you have the gall to call ME disingenuous?

Give me a break.

You have been disengengenous about this whole nonsense from square one. Not only with me, but with other members of this community.

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

kgun: I would PM this, but you stated your PM's were turned off. But are you reading any of this? I surely hope so, maybe it will remove some blinders that were put into place a long time ago. Try to recall that me and you never had issues like this in the past, we argued many times, but never got out of hand, in years. Time for the blindfolds to come off.

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William Cross
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Which merely evades the question. No matter.

Now, you have repeatedly stated that, with regard to anonymous rep., there was no way for any member to be certain as to its source, that they can do no more than speculate. Assuming that that is the case, then how is it that multiple members should so quickly come to act in concert? Mere coincidence, or an informed source?

BTW, the behavior under discussion began MAY, when a certain member entered the thread relevant outbound link WITHOUT inbound link , not in FEB.

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Actually no deepsand, you might have tricked some people when they did not know better, but it is not going to be that easy anymore. It 'escalated' in May, I will grant you that, and that was where you got worried you might lose all your pretty little pixels and started manipulating people. But your true colors have been demonstrated, and it won't even take someone of Kjells intelligence to see that.

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William Cross
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In the words of that old old USA child age truism. "He who smelt it, dealt it". Never was it truer than today.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

For one who dismisses "pixels" as being of no import, you certainly do devote a great deal of time to effecting changes to such.

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