Wow, who would have thought that when confronted with facts yet again, and not having a reply that will stand up, he tries changing the subject real quick?

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

I evaded nothing.

The facts I stated are verifiable.

As so far as a member being certain, I told you the same thing but you had made up your mind as to "certain". Told you your "guesses" were wrong. You told me...

Yes, I still have that PM too.

The repeated inferences from you and kgun that I have been some sort of an "informed source" are simply not true.

You and he can definitively figure things out but noone else can unless it's because I'm "informing" them. So I get repeatedly accused and insulted.

If I'm guilty of anything, it was trying to tell you, you were wrong with your "guessing".

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

Well, I am just happy Kjell should finally 'definitively' figure out he has been had.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Assumes facts not in evidence.

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Which explains his being likewise attacked how?

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1) At Time = T, Member X views Discussion D; at Time = T+1, with no other Member viewing Discussion D, red rep. is received. Is that a "guess?"

2) At Time = T, red rep. with Points = P received; at same Time, only 1 Member with Rep. Level RL such that P < RL+1 and P > RL-1. Just another "guess?"

Had you chosen to, you could have put stop to this quite some time ago. What did you hope to gain by allowing it to continue?

__________________
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We are on

The World's Forum for eBusiness Professionals.

Personally, I have noted who defends

1. a system that is very biased (nonobjective)
2. can be very easily manipulated.

It is still some green / red pixels.

I have also noted that some that discredit Google's green pixels, (ToolBar Rank and call it FoolBar Rank) that are more objective support this. In that respect this forum's moderator, ctabuk is more consistent. He don't support any of the tools.

I would definitely go to another place to look for a SEO specialist.

Enjoy the pixel game. This should have been written in another thread and not in the poll. I log out.

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If you were wrongly suspected it was not for lack of the appearance of reason.

1) Excluding Tubby, who only lately joined the Group, and merely observed, of the members of the Red Rep Raiders, all but one have identities that were deduced with relative ease.

2) All such members were long ago identified as being closely associated with you.

3) It was long ago observed, in discussions in which you participate, that you have a tendency to give more forebearance with respect to their behavior to those participants with whom you agree.

4) You took a public stance supportive of the behavior of said Group Members.

5) You red repped me for a post that mentioned you in what was then intended to portray you in a positive light.

Given the above, it is only natural that the light of suspicion should fall on you. In my case, such did not come either quickly or easily; mightly and long did I wrestle with my doubts before reaching a conclusion that I found most distasteful.

If it be the case that you have been wronged by me, then I most sincerely apologize.

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Me? Allowing "it" to continue?

Should I have just flat assed banned you for violating the TOS via the rep system when you did? Afterall, according to you that's exactly what you did.

No deepsand, wasn't a matter of me "allowing" anything.

Dave

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For the moment, I shall assume that you've not yet read my previous post, and withhold further comment.

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deepsand... they only red rep you ever received from me was in direct response to red you had given me for no good reason whatsoever. Prior to that, you had rec'd nothing but green and you know it.

I will tell you this about what you call "said Group Members"... each and every one of them know me. Each and every one of them know I would not hesitate to drop the ban hammer on them if they spit in my face when it comes to me moderating this forum.
Each and everyone of them know that I do not nor will I share information I am privy to as a mod that the general membership is not privy to.

As far as the social group I created goes... I created it for EXACTLY the purpose I said I created for. Anyone can join and read anything posted. It was for the SOLE purpose of keeping BS off the boards that I didn't (and don't) want on the boards.

It was allow a place for those who had "issues" with the rep system to discuss/debate/ hash it out. You can join it yourself and see if my opinions are any different there than what I have posted on the boards.

I remain steadfast in my belief that it has no place nor purpose on the boards.... period.

I have not voted in this poll. Put if push came to shove I would vote yes because removing the system would not remove the underlying "issues" causing all this nonsense to begin with.

I need to get some sleep... I have a company to run

And most graciously accepted deepsand.

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

Were it the case that you accepted such as being a violation of the ToS, as I posited, and you felt that I too had commited such violation, then you should have given everyone involved, including me, the requisite warnings.

__________________
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Kgun: Exactly when did either WPW's rep system, OR the Google Foolbar become ranking factors in any search engine? That is, after all, the ONLY things SEO is actually concerned with. Come now Kjell, insults tossed out with childish reasoning are only insults and not generally taken notice of. Once again, I would have thought prior that this was beneath your stated intellectual level. Appears I was mistaken.

In regards to deepsouted, I do not presume to speak for CrankyDave, especially as he already did reply, but a couple of deepsands 'points' are elementary to surmise and break down into what they really are, not what deepsand would like to manipulate them into being.

1) If by 'group' you mean the red rep rangers social group which was started by CrankyDave as a place for YOU and Kgun to rant and whine over the rep war YOU started instead of it being all over the boards in hijacked threads where it had no reason to be other than your own agenda of confusion, then only the 'missing' people in the group actually shows something. That something being that the 'missing' people, the ones who 'said' they wanted to discuss the issue, merely wanted to cause dissent and hijack other peoples public threads and NOT discuss rep issues in a unbiased setting especially designed for that purpose. Tubby, like the rest of us, joined to see what comes of it all next. It is a public social group that requires NO approval. Simply click the 'join group' links and presto, you are in. No bias, no bull. Which I suspect now is why you refused to use it. No great surprise.

2) I would not know, I seem to have lost my magic 8-ball that tells me what 'members' your manipulations have spread to people are the illuminati against you.

3) I would love to see you try to back that claim up. I honestly would. I myself have been told I would be banned by CrankyDave if I did not slow my roll a couple times. I am just not quite as dumb as kgun was tp keep going and test Daves patience. Kgun apparently was not that smart.

4) Being that your biggest issue was rep pixels, I will presume (or observe as you like to call it) that this is in regards to Dave stating that rep could be given out for any reason anyone wants to give it, be it green, or red? That is just common sense, not supporting someone. That surely does appear to apply to anyone/everyone to me. Heck, it may even be forum policy, but that ones not in my 'inside information' handbook.

5) No clue, as my magic 8-ball doesn't tell me what Dave has done or not done either.

Well damn, 4 out of 5 seem like common sense. That is surprising from someone who toots his horn as an intellectual, I must say. That you feel these things which are so easily broken down and shown in their real light are somehow evidenciary or documentative of some foul play in progress.

CrankyDave must really be some foul sinister mastermind out to trick us all, oh wait, you were already outed for that in this thread in a way that is verifiable by admins, my bad.


It would seem to be more common sense is needed on deepsands part here. I would think (or It is my Opinion) that Dave obviously did NOT feel it was a ToS violation or he WOULD have said something. Obviously, none of the other moderators or admins in that thread felt it was either or THEY would have said something, or done something. Once again, you are spitting in the wind attempting to confuse things.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

William: Chill, Man.
The Rest of You: CHILL, Man.

Solution: STOP giving rep points to Veteran or above. Grade, or Rep the new members who have jumped on board in interesting threads and left a good bit more than two cents worth.

Wee: That is your system and while I feel you have the full right to do things the way you see it as fair, Other members also have the exact same right.

As far as chilling out, you must be kidding me. I am ecstatic right now. This thread has culminated in verifiably proving something I have observed for quite some time, and some other things I have presumed as well. I have even mentioned to a user here that intelligence is not always inherent in good people only. I have even pointed out to said user that he was being 'led' around by intellectual manipulations.

So chill? I am so cool baby it 'aint' funny

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

I wish i could care about "rep" points, I really do. it would obviously mean I had no other problems worth mentioning in my life

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kevsta: or that your entire life hinged on a message board. that is the truly sad option.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

I have got many negative Reps and I have no idea what I did wrong. I am an active member at digital point, sitepoint, NP, V7N and I have all green reps. At DP, I have 8 or so green bars with 7500 posts.

But at this forum, I have got many red reps and I have no idea why.

I personally think that there is some serious issue with the current rep system. May be admins should moderate reps to see if reps are given correctly or not.

I vote for NO and hope to see the current rep system changed.

__________________
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Let the member unhinge themselves with their off color posts but maintain a steady accrual of good reps. That would give people something to gauge another member by when they stumble on a skewed post--they can see that the member must have lots of valued posts, as well, to outweigh the current diversion.

angilina: I can't say for sure off the top of my head, but but I suspect it may have something to do with these sorts of posts:

Bolding: Mine.

There are a whole lot more posts you have made with incorrect information that you post as factual.

I know if I ran across them, one of 2 things would happen: 1) I would call you on it in the thread and maybe give red rep, or 2) if someone else had already corrected it in the thread, you might get red from me.

My position on my own way of giving rep has been given several times: If you post inaccurate or misleading info as fact, or it is downright stupid, expect red.

__________________
William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Well, it's much more difficult for a new member that doesn't have much rep to start with. Sure there are lots of new members that just post crap and deserve red, but when you get red because someone disagrees with you then it sucks, like when some idiot gave me red because they think msn is a search engine. And then they give it anonymously so you can't even all them an idiot.

Maybe it's got something to do with the need to give 20 reps before you can rep the same person again, or maybe it's because you got red so you must give others red, but the impression I'm beginning to get is that this is not a place to discuss things and that my input is not wanted and definitely not appreciated.

I've voted for I Don't Care Either Way because right now, I don't care much for this forum and probably won't be back so to me it doesn't matter either way. I've met some nice, clever people here but the few ***** put me off.

See you guys around sometime.

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Modified car parts and accessories | Landscape and Garden

modified said
"my input is not wanted and definitely not appreciated."

not appreciated by everybody. Maybe. . . Sometimes our critics can seem somewhat louder than a silent majority.

I love you Modified (well just a little bit)

.

__________________

Amen brutha! This poll & thread even being here is a perfect example of that.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

I had nothing to do with your little game until one day I looked and saw a lot of reds from one person that only left a . or a * for the comments.

Then I read someone post about how you leave your red with a little . or * sign.

I wanted to return the red you'd been giving me and did so. Maybe all the people giving you red is because you try to run around and given them red.

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Don't believe anything you read on the internet, or, for that matter, anything you hear, unless it is consistent with what you already know to be true, or unless you have taken the time to research the matter to prove its accuracy to your satisfaction. This is known as "doing your homework."

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Frankly, I look more at the number of posts than someone's Rep. I think the only Red Rep I've given were to people who seemed to be spammers by me and others in the post.

I've given some green's out. I think I even gave a green to someone who got a Red when it seemed to be a personal attack.

If you are going to keep it, make it so it can't be annoymous. You have to stand by your Red (or Green). Also, I don't think someone should be able to give Green (or Red) and have it count more than others.

Maybe adding a system where you have to have a certain number of posts (10 or 20) before leaving Rep would be good. Maybe you already do.

On one hand, I'm shocked by all of the immaturity On the other hand I've coached youth sports for too long to be surprised by how immature adults can be. :O)

Let's try to remember why this forum exists and why we volunteer our time to help others trying to learn.

I vote yes, but with changes.

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missing posts have been moved to their own thread...

How Often Does TBPR Update?

Dave

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IMO it is a system which is clearly open to abuse, but it does serve some purposes so I vote YES

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Mel Nelson
Expert SEO | Cheap used cars

In response to my post at WebProWorld Rep System
Carefully re-read Dave's question. It was a hypothetical based on facts in evidence, one that was worthy of a forthright and honest answer.

I did assert that certain use of the rep. system constituted a violation of the ToS; Dave did assert that he viewed my own use as falling within the same scope. Those are facts in plain public view.

Dave's question was quite simple and easily understood; i.e., if he accepted my assertion, and if he allowed of his own, then what?.

To have ignored such would have simply brought forth from you a different criticism.

In so damning the answer you have damned the question and likewise the questioner.

You have here simply evidenced yourself to not be given to critical thinking in all regards.

__________________
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You apparently are not a critical thinker. The second part of that line is a quantifier, or as some would call it, a qualifier. It explains that part of Daves first sentence, as being 'what you called it'. Not what he actually thinks or does not think.

Please try harder than this to make an intellectual post.

And sorry, just noticed you apparently quoted a rep comment, not a thread post. For someone who whined so hard to get rid of the rep system you sure do love quoting comments you get a lot. Seems to be an ego thing. Might want to seek help for that

CrankyDave: Please do correct me if I am incorrect in what I said

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

You need to learn to differentiate between whining and substantive rebuttal.

Dave asked a legitimate question, and I gave it the answer it deserved.

It is not for you or any other to judge either.

__________________
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Assumes facts not yet in evidence until this post.

I clearly stated: "CrankyDave: Please do correct me if I am incorrect in what I said "

Dave was last seen reading in this thread at a time AFTER I posted the above. I surely do not see him as correcting me, do you?

Once again, ignorance may be bliss until you open your mouth and I then remove all doubt.

Sorry to burst your bubble kiddo.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Nor have we seen him correcting me, junior.

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Why would he have a need to? It's already been done.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

You've no standing in the matter.

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Actually, I spoke to Dave directly after posting to make absolutely sure I was not mistaken about his meaning

Sorry D, once again, you...

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

This forum sucks because of the Phil Craven Gang who has been allowed to ruin the joint.

They are continuing the destruction they have worked for years here and it has become a rotten stinking place because management has allowed it when they have known about it for over a year now.

webworkshop.net/seoforum/index.php

Moderators
PhilC: Google's custom search engines • Mel: Expert SEO • WilliamC: Search Engine Optimization • Janeth: geeksonsteroids.com• Nicky_uk: Search Engine Marketing Services • Feydakin: Animal Jewelry • CrankyDave: Religious Jewelry •

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So you claim.

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Yes, I would claim I spoke to a moderator when I did in fact not do so, just so the mod could ban me for whatever period. Again, you show your true intellect.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

So, now you're claiming to be Dave's authorized agent?

Before you speak again, consider the implications of the underlying tenet of the principal/agent relationship - the acts and knowledge of the agent are deemed to be the acts and knowledge of the principal!

The principal becomes responsible for the errors, of both commission and omission, of his agent.

And, what type of agency have we here? One of designation, ratification or estoppel? Well, since Dave has not publicly stated that he has designated you as his agent, we can rule out the first. I leave it to you to decide between the others.

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Hmm which part of "Actually, I spoke to Dave directly after posting to make absolutely sure I was not mistaken about his meaning" did you fail to understand?

I asked Dave if my understanding of what he said was correct. He said Yes.

That does not imply any agent relationship. that means I spoke to him and asked a question, which I repeated here.

The navy sure seems to have wasted money in this case

The fact remains: Everything you have said about this is incorrect as per the norm, so all is well

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Yeah, we know you are a member of the CrankyDave arse kissing club along with Janeth and a few others around here William !!!


Duh, I wonder who is abusing the reputation system William ??

Could it be the same thing you and Phil did to me on SEW moron ???

__________________
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AVC: The person who began abusing the rep system was already outed and proven in an admin verifiable means. The fact you bring it up again probably only causes him distress to have it in the eyes of everyone yet again afte rall his attempts to bury it in cloudiness, so does it bother me? Not in the least. It inspired me

As for rep, I have stated many times the reasons I give bad rep, one being stupid comments.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

So you are saying that you and Phil Craven never engaged in reputation abuse at SEW against me William ???

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You, williamc, would have us believe that Dave asked a question that he did not want answered.

You would also have us believe that Dave finds the answer unsatisfactory, but lacks the wherewithall to speak for himself.

Your word carries no credibility. You are but a Sea Lawyer.

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Why in the world would anyone need to do so? You did a perfectly good job of it all by yourself mate.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Actually no poor boy, Dave has been AFK since right after I spoke to him. He still is to my knowledge. I have no doubt he will pop in here and make sure everyone knows the facts that I have demonstrated, which will also show all of your subsequent posts are yet again, vain attempts to cloud that fact. Sorry, but you have no hope of salvaging this one.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

You must be quite uncomfortable at DP; no fellow Red Rep Raiders to cover your arse for you, and having to give up rep. in order to give red.

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Not at all. DP provides a place to hire outsourcing. Not much else. If you actually looked at any recent posts by me, you might have figured that out. In fact DP serves my needs quite well in that regard.

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William Cross
Expert Search Engine Optimization

Dave has visited this thread since I posted my answer to his question; had he something to say about it he'd not send a cabin boy to deliver the message.

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