In mine too.

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Webnauts said
I got around Christmas time an infraction for Spammed Advertisements, because I was linking to on-topic articles and tutorials of my site.

that's a bit sour grapes old mate. you were posting messages in the style - read my article here nothing else, not even a cut and pasted relevant bit - someone chipped you for it. (one the braver mods). You should simply have smiled to yourself, shrug your shoulders and carry on. Looking at what others might have done or not done is not healthy

Now you have a chip on your shoulder. You placed it there, and it deprives other members of your expertise. I call it self inflicted wounds John . . We all know you are far better than that!

Nobody harmed you John . .

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Read my article here? You are probably right. That would not have happened if I edited something like: SEO Tutorials for Newbies.

Anyway, you are again right Tubby. Looking what others might have done or do is not healthy. But it was simply an argumentation point. Nothing more than that.

I am not willing to beat a dead horse here or raise the evil spirits or the underground to the surface of the ground.

At last, thanks very much for the kind words man.

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I did. See below

For another post then ...

Back to topic?

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It is not unlike the game my son plays. He plays a warrior game, I sometimes hear him saying. "He cannot harm me, he has not got enough hitting power!'

In this game (WPW) new users with less than 50 post have no hitting power (rp altering power). I just calculated - If I get 1 point for every 365 days. (4 points) and 1 point for every 1000 posts (1point) this should give me hitting power of 5 points. (Tell me if I have that wrong)

My thinking; I could go head to head with a new user I did not like and Totally Kick Ass..... (rp wise)

I shall contemplate whether this is good or bad while I have a cup of tea. Maybe I would prefer a bar that tells other users what my 'hitting power" is.

just offering another "gaming' perspective. sort of don't mess with me I can delete 5 points at a time - Tough Guy probably not a particularly useful perspective, but it did occur to me.

Somebody tell me if you can delete rp, in multiple points?. . this seems a bit unfair to new users.

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kgun said.

"There are two obvious advantages:
1 More restrictive posting. Minimalism.
2 Reduce forum spam. "

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 3,438 . . . . . I always knew you were a minimalist.

I think spitting the forum subject topic is about dead. There does seem to be a lot of concern about the rep rank. More WPW members have strong heartfelt opinions on RP than chopping up the forum.

Minimalism, that was a fad term We used studying art in the sixties. it was used in art to describe bare minimum of strokes or colour that produced a recognisable visual effect.

Minimalism in a forum would probably be post like;
Q - Should we spit the forum into two parts
A - No

Kgun, you would hate a minimalist forum. no fine points to contemplate, no peripheral information to add perspective, No colorful contributions to add life to the topic. Nobody would ever see a whole answer, just a few words that would merely outline, leaving the filling in to your own experience and observation. No two people would see the answer the same. No specificity in an answer . . or question.

I forget who said it earlier, but you are not suggesting minimalism, you are suggesting segregation.

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That has nothing to do with the number of posts, aside from answering the same question too often. That fact was one reason that I wrote this thread. Of course the simple answer is. Why bore answering?

Minimalist is in my world: not using too many words to explain a question / problem. Sometimes you have to repeat and qote yourself.

No, more than it is segregated by other direct or inderect means. See what I have written above.

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I do not consider the words minimalism and segregation to be interchangeable Kgun.


P.S. when I wrote [COLOR=""Posts: 3,438 . . . . . I always knew you were a minimalist."

that was humour, the humour being in the contradiction of a large number of posts, and your assertion of a preferred minimalist stance. I would never suggested your posts were not worthwhile, I have I think said previously that I enjoy reading them.

Shall we argue onwards about a definition for minimalism?
or shall we minimise and leave this different interpretation forever clouded in both our minds?

Or shoud we segregate me and you so we can discuss this without worry of other users interupting us with spam? (I shall pesume the latter would be your first choice) but if that were your choice no bright new user might not be tempted to interject with a pleasing contribution. The new user would be minimalised? - or even minimalated?

Sometimes you argue kgun, merely to back up what you have previously said. (without thought) I enjoy that, it adds color..

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Neither do I. If you have got that impression, you have misunderstood my posts.

Ok, it will take years before I fully understand Australian humor

None has explained that concept better than Einstein in my view. "Make it simple, as simple as possible but no simpler". We could add use simple direct language and last but not least, stay on topic. There should also be a guide in the forum rules.

That is human and most of us do. If you mean that it is bla bla bla, tell it in direct language.

Back to the start of this thread:

When I started this post there were 563 users online, 23 registered members and 540 visitors. Let us divide these users in three groups:

1. Unregistered surfers, 96 %. We can call this group information hunters.
2. Registered with enough posts to be segregated to use your words.
3. Registered with less posts to qualify.

The group that would be most hurt by having to pay are surfers with low purchasing power and registered members with few posts. But reading is possible for all in the free part.

Final questions:

1. Are you sure that the majority of visitors, both unregistered and registered will reject the solution in my first post if they had to vote?
2. Are you sure that some of them will not vote for the solution if they had to?
3. Are you sure that some very competent visitors would not register and start posting or paying depending on access to content?
4. Are you sure that some very competent registered users will not start posting more often?
5. It is difficult to conclude which version will give the highest quality to the forum. I should not be surprised if my proposal to divide the forum in two parts would give the forum with highest quality in the long run. Highest quality, don't start a discussion around that concept, please.

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Kgun you ask
Final questions:
Are you sure that the majority of visitors, both unregistered and registered will reject the solution in my first post if they had to vote?
Are you sure that some of them will not vote for the solution if they had to?
Are you sure that some very competent visitors would not register and start posting or paying depending on access to content?
Are you sure that some very competent registered users will not start posting more often?
It is difficult to conclude which version will give the highest quality to the forum. But I should not be surprised if my proposal to divide the forum in two parts would give the forum with highest quality in the long run. Highest quality, don't start a discussion around that concept, please.
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kgun, any change to this forum would be an admin decision. . If you have an argument simply place it. You talk of minimalism, then you post long convoluted argument that does not argue a single point in the 'splitting the forum' discussion. A whole row of Am I sure questions is 'wasting space' I do not need to be sure. I need only to present my view.

you say "lets divide users" that is not an argument in favour of spitting the forum.

if you like Einsteins quote "Make it simple, as simple as possible but no simpler".
I should simply state, The idea of splitting the forum is bloody stupid.

if you ever intended to make a serious proposal to present to the admin of this site, you should have placed your arguments . . waffling around asking me if I am sure babbling on about minimalism and quoting Einstein is totally irrelevant.

I myself am often one to wander off into irrelevance. . . But never If I set out a serious proposal. you did not set out a serious proposal Kgun you lack purpose on this topic, you have no goal, you are merely kicking the ball around waiting for a game to start in another thread.

and nothing in this post ads to the argument either. We could both be a waste of space Kgun...

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I think the forums site-reference.com use a nice system than this retarded RepRank thingy.
I just picked up a thread as an example so you can have a look:

SEO at your fingertips

If you look beneath the users Avatars, there are some little buttons, like "Thank you", "Buy me a coffee" or "Buy me a Beer", etc.

As a member there I use them already. The "Thank you" button is used if some one was thankful for your tip. But there is no way to rate someone negatively. The other buttons are linking to your pPaypal account when a user would like to donate for your help. And all that is up to you if you want to use them at all.

I think it is a very interesting, encouraging and fair system.

What do you all think about that?

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webnauts said
"What do you all think about that?"

The two forums are monetized totally differently. without taking a good look it would be hard for me to work out exactly how the site reference creates its income.

I have a vague understand how WPW creates income.

The two sites do not stand on level ground when it comes to creating income. the site basics use a different model, simply picking a model from somewhere else may well look simple. . But not the sort of thing I would attempt without a thorough understanding of how all the nuts and bolts fit together.

Millions of forums out there John, to imagine that they are all financially viable is a huge step, many forums servive because they support a product . . If the forum compromises the product . . . Well.. Poof goes the forum.

I certainly do not know enough about the nuts and bolts of WPW. I do not really want to. . I just like the company, I enjoy posting my opinion.

Presumably someone from up high is reading this thread - and chuckling to themselves. (we have absolutely no clue about what makes this place tick!)

The chances are if a member handed out some SEO help and got $10 you would complain that the member was not professional. maybe nobody has ever made a donation? does anyone on that site claim they make any Peanut$ from the forum?


John, your own forum is supported your own product, SEO services, you protect your own product so dearly that only the minimal few get to post anything at all. . . I certainly do not blame you for not compromising your own product. . yet you sometimes suggest things that you would never ever ever, ever do to yourself. .

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I think I should make some silly suggestions.

I understand Kguns concerns, I fully appreciate the thought of Monkey who feel a little loss of prestige (I do to). I have a vague understanding of the gripes and grumble.

What if everything stayed the same. . except an introduction of clans, these could be displayed as a simple symbol.
If Kgun decided to start his own clan he would ask permission from admin. If permission was approved. junior members (or senior members could loin Kguns clan (under the fathering protection of the clan leader)
A new member could actively seek the clan of his choice, they might want to be part of the 'Monkey clan' and Monkey could set guidelines in the private Clan thread. If a new promisingly bright member joined, Monkey might actively seek this new member as part of his team (clan). I might Actively seek membership to a particular clan. A family bond. . Not segregation, but a team like approach.

This is nothing New, schoolkids always had a team. I recall refusing to be in anything but the yellow team, I always had loyalty to that colour.

I can find more thought on this. But I ask Kgun, could a clan system work for or ease your concerns.
would a new member without a family attachments to a clan seek to join a chosen group?

Just some out-loud thinking. . . ( I felt a littly guilty picking holes, without offering something original myself)
The above is about as near as I can come to Kguns original post - my best effort

I think a system symilar to this could introduce clan loyalty, reward for effort, recognition, protection, competition. a little gamemanship, a target for quality, pride, the list goes on (with the right clan leaders)

You are all welcome to pick holes in the above.

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Tubby it can all be easily done via user groups and subforums that are only viewable by their members and IMHO i think it's a good idea to create such a system.

You should define who would be able to create a group. Only moderators, only people with 1000+ posts? That's back on the topic of few posts ago.

However, creating such communities could produce in new members feeling more accepted. I think groups (or clans as you call them) should be divided by the area of expertise of their members. So you would have SEO group, online marketing group, web design group etc.

An idea worth of try.

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Tubby I do not feel being blamed for something.

But to your point about having to less posts. The reason is that we never attempted to promote the forums, because we did not have the basic technical requirements to deal with more than we had.

To be specific, we were using a free board software which had incredible limitations and we feared to let it grow, as we already had a horrible experience with our Webnauts Net Forums, where we still have disabled new registrations until we will get vBulletin Board Software too.

What was the problem? We were getting daily approx. 100 new registrations for a bit longer than a year, and the board we have was not good enough to filter spammers, so we were trying to filter manually.

Now back to SEO Workers Forums.

First we are not interest in quantity. We are exclusively interested about quality!

As you already said we support it with our own services and not with ads or so ever. Since we very recently changed hosting (mediatemple.net) and bought a new professional forum board (vBulletin) and we skinned it accordingly, we added new categories like for Web and Graphic Design (HTML, CSS, Photoshop, etc) which we did not have before, and which those are the most wanted next to SEO ones, and we SEOed it accordingly, we are now ready to start promoting it.

And I repeat: Number of members will not be a signification of success. That will be quality!

We are strictly against such stuff. (Turn on your loudspeakers before clicking the link).

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john you said
Tubby I do not feel being blamed for something.

I think users are fairly blind john, they go to a site, they gain an impression, they either stay or leave.

I try to give my best thoughts. . Do not expect your forum users to understand your underlying problems, expect them to walk of in droves if the site can not be found, or users are criticized unfairly. . Users do not understand your problems, this is way beyond what you should expect of them.

If ever I say something critical toward you john I do expect you to pick out bits you can use. . not the bits that upset you. . I am not here to harm anyone, and I do feel I should have the freedom to say what pops into my head.

I respect you John, ( I have for a long time) but I will say what you do not like sometimes.
I understand you feel a little hurt. You wish to defend your forum. I will take that onboard.

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Hi Tony, I do not think we met so far. nice to bump into you.

you say - "So you would have SEO group, online marketing group, web design group etc."

My thinking never really got that far, I was looking for a segregation compromise that I could agree to. I do like to agree with people. It would make me happy for the week, If Kgun and I agreed on some sort of segregation.
Clans would not be segregation, but they might be an option that 'targets' the concerns of Kgun.

I might be tempted to think the other way, A clan leader would want the full spectrum of skills on his team. This way a team in private clan chat could formulate an answer between them in certain cases, and present an opinion that was holistic. Sometimes a designer might see a problem differently, say from a programmer. But I see no problem in a clan leader chosing a 'design group' that's what a clan leader could choose, but I think designers argue with each other, I think a marketing man would make a better team member prospect.

a few teams like this formulating their own 'policy' could open up a new ball game. If a question was posed to a team comprising a cross section of all the skill represented on this site (vast quantities) it could possibly be a world class answer that encompasses many aspects. not just a narrow section.

as far as implementing things. the WPW admin and staff, have enough skills to implement anything they want to ('want to' being the important words)

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Great discussion so long, but let it be clear:

1. When I started this thread, it was ment serious. It still is.
2. I did not bring in the word segregation, and it is a misleading concept in this context.
3. Different klans. Read your first comment in this thread Tubby. So you wan't me to have my own klan with a unique member?
4. I stand by my original proposal, but of course, there are modifications.

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kgun said
'So you want me to have my own klan '

No kgun, I am not concerned about what you have. or do not have. I am meandering through things that are not an option. . simply because I can.

I do not think it matters what we 'want' I expect we will manage quite comfortably with what we get. or what we have.


I never understood your first post in this thread. - I don't think you understood my first post.

You state yours was 'serious'.
I will admit mine was a little bit of cruel humour.

I have no real picture in my mind of what your target is . . . except it would entail splitting things in half.

Mathematicians do this a lot - a mathematician can cut a live cow in half and calculate he has two half cows. Yet every dick head in the neighbourhood understands that the cow no longer exists. just two big piles of steak, and some bones . . n stuff.

A mathematician can put the two halve cows back together. "MAGIC". It is not a conceptual worl Kgun, concepts are just tools, and are by definition always false.

YES. . I did think you would would like the team leader option, If members decided to join your team, or if it were an option.

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Segregation in any form albeit a forum or in life is something that this moderator is entirely against.

So Kgun - it was a stupid concept.

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I will make a paid extranet.

By denying IP (regions)'s access to your site in .htaccess, you can set up an informal extranet (that is a network for your customers).

If you still want free (since you are a moderator) access to ForumNorway, you have to PM me your Ip.

It has nothing to do with being a leader. It has to do with being paid for information, geting rid of spam, 20 years of education and a lot of experience.

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Segregation is a bad word unless you agree that the strongest segregator is Mr Market, that is the price mechanism.

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Quote

The forum is better after the last update. I have a proposal to make it IMO even better. Divide the forum in two parts.

1. One free for new memebers.
2. One free for 1000 / 500 or even 100 + posters and paid for other members.

That in any language equals segregation. So on that note - does anyone agree that the thread has run it's natural course?

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My bolding.

Yes, then we agree.

No problem for me if you close the thread.

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Well - the last time I closed one of your threads - well we all know.

Tubby said
'ctabuc, keeps plodding along (with Humour) with a very neglected perspective on what search engines are used for.
What he does. . works. (although not really understood) It is useful. Would you deprive new members of this?'


I simply adore this

Ah - that's better. 'What Search Engines are used for' - that is a wee bit like buying a clockwork toy and asking 'where do I put the batteries'?

I think I know how people use Search Engines - but if my message (And Lord knows I have been saying it here for years) is not getting across then I will outline exactly what I stand for. And anyone with any doubts after reading this can - well, they can ask.


Forums are places for teaching and learning - I have one simple rule - treat others as you would wish to be treated - Segregation by color, religion or belief has no part in my being. I came here knowing nothing about natural search - I have read - learned and enjoy passing the information on to others.

That's it folks.

Anyway, there were these two fellers......

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Two separate forums?

Here is WPWFREE – non members and new members

Here you will find
useful information
great help
misinformation
arguments
self promotion
spam


Here is WPWGOLD – Paid Admission

Once post count reaches oh say 100 post, then no charge required to continue.

Here you will find
useful information
great help
misinformation
arguments
self promotion
spamming to reach the free mark


Kgun, did I understand you correctly?

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Clicken
Math Flash Cards Online

Its like trying to hold a party in two rooms, eventually people gravitate to one or the other....

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If the two rooms offer the same party then is the gravitational pull stronger towards the one with no cover charge?



Does it take a Newtonian to figure it out?

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Clicken
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How does this sound. Break the forum into three parts

1) Moderators
2) New Posters
3) Members 500+

Everyone in their own world.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Hey, as long as I get to be in the kitchen, I'll come to the party ...

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M.-J. Taylor
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I already did something on my forums tonight, that might could work here too:

Search Editor Lounge
Access to this area is granted to Master Search Engine Optimizers by invite from SEO Workers only.
SEO Workers Forums

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