NOTES ON NEW DESIGN

**mike** · #1 (**permalink**) 05-31-2006, 07:01 PM

The new design/forum is pretty much in place. So far so good insofar as many of the 'legacy' bugs were concerned (no preview post problems reported - yay).

Now, I will ask for a bit of patience and understanding insofar as some of the particulars are concerned for the next day or so. Trust me when I tell you this forum, in it's previous life, was EXTREMELY modified. It was modified for structure, templates, features - EVERYTHING was mod-driven (which was why things like bug hunting and security updates were a nightmare). As such, there are probably all kinds of things you're used to seeing that don't work right (or at all). They will, just give me a day or so.

I may work on some of these things tonight, but that is a fairly risky proposition. I tend break things I can't fix and the IT and design folks were all giving me dirty looks when we left the office as it was. As such, I will probably not get into anything too serious until tomorrow morning.

Basically, (aside from a few things I managed to get installed this afternooon) this is a completely new, stock, clean and uncorrupted forum/db install. I will have most of the 'neat' features back in within the next 24 hours or so.

Just hang in there...

Jabber_uk · #2 (**permalink**) 05-31-2006, 07:07 PM

<HTML>
<TITLE>Brit humour mode activated</TITLE>
<BODY>

<HUMOUR language="british" sarcasm="100%" dryness="yes">My life wont be the same but 'I'm hanging in there'</HUMOUR>

</BODY>
</HTML>

hehehe loving the new site though Mike xD

cspelts · #3 (**permalink**) 05-31-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

I will have most of the 'neat' features back in within the next 24 hours or so.

Just hang in there...

Hey, I'm just glad to hear this isn't the final version! It was a little scary to think it might stay this way!

**mike** · #4 (**permalink**) 06-01-2006, 12:52 PM

Just in the way of an FYI, here are soem of the things that have been added (or re-added) at this point:

Multiple BBCode MOD 1.4.0c:
Allows you to install BBCode MODs that add quick BBCode buttons in post edits. Without this MOD, there is no standard way of installing BBCode MODs.

BBCode Buttons Organizer 1.4.0a:
Allows for neater display of additional quick BBCode buttons.

Limited Post Edit time 1.0.1:
With this MOD the admin is able to set through the board configuaration, the time (in minutes) a user has to edit his/her post. When the value is set to '0', the time is unlimited. The check occurs only when the user hits the 'edit'button in the post. NOT when the user hits the submit button. Moderators & Admins can always edit the post

Link Poster's Name To Profile 1.0.0:
Links the posters name to their profile page.

mw3 (Prevent Any Layout From Being Broken) 1.0.0:
This MOD uses DHTML to check if posts contain anything that would cause your layout to be larger than its normal width, and if so, it adds a horizontal scrollbar under the message and/or resizes large images to fit into the normal intended width for the layout.

Post search in memberlist 1.0.4:
Makes the members postcount in the memberlist, a link to a search of all the posts they have made.

Search Data 1.2.6:
With this MOD you can track what your users are searching your board for. Includes neat admin panel for monitoring the action. There's also a statistics page, and a page that breaks the search phrases into single words.

Log IP Address on Registration 1.0.0:
Logs the IP address of users when they register.

Topics I've Started 1.0.1:
This MOD will allow you to have a new page that lists all threads you've started.

Report Posts 1.2.3c:
This mod allows registered users to report posts to moderators. It adds a page where all reports can be displayed and the option to email the moderators when a report is made. Moderators can also write some comments about their actions on reported posts and full history of report actions is stored.

Search Engine Results 1.0.0:
This MOD allows you to view how many results your site shows on each of the popular search engines, and provides a link so you can navigate through the different results.

descriptive time zone 1.0.2
Add more descriptive time zone to phpBB

Accurate BBCode Insertion Mod 1.0.0:
This mod will insert BBCode accuratly into a post, (at the caret position) instead of putting it at the bottom.

Who is online time edit 1.0.3:
This mod will add a spot to the admin pannel, to set the ammount of minutes that the who is online tool shows users of in the past x minutes

L.M.O.A.E.V. Checked by Default 1.0:
This MOD leaves the Log me on automatically each visit box checked by default

Add Moderate Button 1.0.4:
Adds a "moderate" button if the user is a forum moderator and is viewing that forum or a topic within that forum.

userfriendly URL-input 1.0.0:
This MOD makes it easier for the user to add a link text while posting. When inserting a [url]-tag, it will prompt for the URL and link text of the URL The complete bbcode-tag will be added this to the message.

Admin Email notification on New Registration 1.0.5
With this MOD, email notification will be sent to a ACP-configured user

Admin Userlist 2.0.2
This MOD lets you view all of you members and various information about them in the Admin Control Panel. From the list, you can perform various actions on multiple users.

Forum Permissions List 1.0.1:
This MOD provides a summary listing of the permissions for all of your forums on one screen, with brief tooltip explanations of what that permission setting means, as well as integrated editing of the permissions for either

PM threshold 1.0.0
Add a minimum posts threshold before allowing pms

Fixed date format for non technical users
Drop down menu in profile definition for non technical users

Email Admin on ACP Login
Adds a feature so that if the ACP is accessed it emails the admin.

Extended Private Message Notification
Disply Sender Username and Private Message Content in E-mail Notification

Disply Sender Username in E-mail Notification
Allow's user who enables e-mail notification upon replies to have sender's username included in the e-mail.

Only View Topics From Last N Days
This mod allows users to set their own default for how far back in time they want to go when looking in viewforum at old topics that have not been posted to for a while.

Ip only by admin 1.0.1
This little mod allows only admins to view IP's.

Autofill Fix 1.0.4
This MOD will stop the browser from autofilling your username and password when trying to edit users in the admin panel.

Google Search BBCode 1.2.0
Allows you put make strings in your post be searched for in Google. ([google]string to search for[/google]) There is a button for it too...

Yahoo Search BBCode 1.0.1
Allows you put make strings in your post be searched for in Yahoo!. ([yahoo]string to search for[/yahoo])

Wikipedia Reference BBCode 1.0.43
Allows you to make keywords in your post link to those entries at WikiPedia.

View new topics since last visit 1.0.2
Pretty much as last posts since last visit, but only with new topics.

Tim · #5 (**permalink**) 06-01-2006, 06:41 PM

Thanks Mike,

Those are probably all wonderfully useful additions but the new site design has also taken a backwards step.

It was possible to get to every forum from each page with one click but now we have to use the top nav or return to the index as the left column is largely occupied by 'Most Recent', 'Most Popular' and 'Most Discussed', which now means two clicks to most forums.

The 'Most' links should be sub-navigations on general pages like Center or Index alone or maybe at the bottom of all pages, leaving the left column as a site map to everywhere. The new layout may look fresher (less baby blue!) but it sure isn't user-friendly.

I would also have thought that the redesign would be a good opportunity to clean up some of that error-ridden HTML 4.01 Transitional, if for no other reason than setting a good example.

Vaidation errors:

Index page
Site Reviews
Search Engine Optimisation

**mike** · #6 (**permalink**) 06-02-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Thanks Mike,
It was possible to get to every forum from each page with one click but now we have to use the top nav or return to the index as the left column is largely occupied by 'Most Recent', 'Most Popular' and 'Most Discussed', which now means two clicks to most forums.

There is, as you point out, the top nav in the header. Additionally there is a 'jumpbox' at the bottom of every page and the 'breadcrumb' links above every section displayed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

The 'Most' links should be sub-navigations on general pages like Center or Index alone or maybe at the bottom of all pages, leaving the left column as a site map to everywhere. The new layout may look fresher (less baby blue!) but it sure isn't user-friendly.

The left column isn't set in stone. I will ask rafael to look into some additional/alternative navigation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

I would also have thought that the redesign would be a good opportunity to clean up some of that error-ridden HTML 4.01 Transitional, if for no other reason than setting a good example.

Vaidation errors:

Index page
Site Reviews
Search Engine Optimisation

Well, as far as validation goes, I was trying really hard to sit here and think about a nice, neutral way to respond. Unfortunately, there probably isn't one. For me, 'validation' consists of basically 1 question, and that is 'does it render like it's supposed to in the 2 or 3 browsers that people actually use?'

Now you might think from that kind of statement that I couldn't care less about W3C validation, and to be honest, I couldn't. I dunno how else to put it. That said, I certainly am all for folks wanting to make their code valid - go for it.

On the other hand, aside from the warm glowy feeling it must give you to have the validator give you a thumbs up, I have never seen validated code make a bit of difference in anything.

For example:
Yahoo
MSN
Google
Amazon
Dell
Toolbarn.com (Kudos to Brian.Mark on Toolbarn making the list by the way....)

I could run down that very list of 500 and get similar results for probably 499 of them. When validation starts to matter for something I will start to worry about validating.

Jabber_uk · #7 (**permalink**) 06-02-2006, 02:59 AM

I agree Mike - validation is not the be all and end all. Validation can be quite restrictive to design and time and time again I have found that in reality, it doesn't matter. It does give you the warm fuzzy glow like you said though :-)

For me, comments on the design of site are going to wait until I have been using it for a while (although I did mention elsewhere that I didn't like the green but then that's not new is it).

When you have been using something for a while you get used to it (WPW) and now that things have changed and they don't work like they used to our first thoughts are that it is not as good as the old.

**mike** · #8 (**permalink**) 06-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Well, my goal is to have everything we used to have back in here by the end of the day today. I still have a lot of work to do but if the phone will leave me alone a little bit and we don't have any craziness in the office, I should be able to get almost everything done.

I want us to have all the functionality of the old forum and then some. As for the color scheme, we wanted to change, but at the same time we didn't want it to look completely foreign so we tried to stay with many of the same colors and keep most of the graphics.

Tim · #9 (**permalink**) 06-02-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

Now you might think from that kind of statement that I couldn't care less about W3C validation, and to be honest, I couldn't...

On the other hand, aside from the warm glowy feeling it must give you to have the validator give you a thumbs up, I have never seen validated code make a bit of difference in anything.

Seems like I caught you at a bad time. Validating code isn't about 'warm glowy feelings', how patronising. You might not see a difference but then I assume your eyesight is 20/20. Every page of WPW that I checked fails both the Section 508 and WAI tests at http://www.contentquality.com and all of those errors are picked up by the W3C Validator.

I don't want to get into a protracted discussion about the nitty-gritty of validation but I had to counter your apparent smugness towards an important issue.

Since when has 'others do it, so why shouldn't we' been an excuse for making mistakes?

The W3C recommendations are there for a purpose, if they didn't matter they wouldn't exist.

**mike** · #10 (**permalink**) 06-02-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Seems like I caught you at a bad time.

Validating code isn't about 'warm glowy feelings', how patronising.

Well, it was around 1:30-2:am-ish but I wasn't trying to offer you any personal offense I assure you. I do apologize if such was your impression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

You might not see a difference but then I assume your eyesight is 20/20. Every page of WPW that I checked fails both the Section 508 and WAI tests at http://www.contentquality.com and all of those errors are picked up by the W3C Validator.

Well, don't doubt they fail those and more. But then again, I do not see any consequence of such failures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

I had to counter your apparent smugness towards an important issue.

I don't bear any malice or think badly of anyone who wants to validate their code. I certainly didn't mean to come across as smug to anyone. That said, I would argue however that 'important' is a relative term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Since when has 'others do it, so why shouldn't we' been an excuse for making mistakes?

The W3C recommendations are there for a purpose, if they didn't matter they wouldn't exist.

Well in this case I'm going along whith what the 'others are doing' because of who the 'others' are in this instance.

Specifically, the fact that I have personally sat and heard the words come out of the mouths of representatives from all the major search engines saying validation doesn't matter to them. That, coupled with the fact that all of them have error ridden pages, leads me to believe that, by extension, it probably isn't that big of a deal.

The logic being, if search engines don't care, and browsers render it fine, once you get to that point what past that matters as far as W3C validatioin is concerned?

Now, understand, that's not a smug question, it's just a straightforward question. Basically I suppose the question is what difference does anything make beyond 'good enough' for browsers and search engines in terms of your pagecode?

And 'if it didn't matter it wouldn't exist' is a slippery slope. Plenty of utterly useless things exist.

Take cats for example.

Jabber_uk · #11 (**permalink**) 06-03-2006, 07:21 AM

The Internet and its technologies has/have always been something to be 'interpreted' both by the designers and programmers and also the browsers we use. Each one of the browsers interpret the code in different ways and support different standards which is why the W3C offers 'Recommendations'. That is exactly what they are, recommendations.

It would be great if everyone read from the same hymn book but that aint gonna happen when there are so many different ways of reading and displaying the same code. IE looks at it one way, FF another etc.

Therefore as Mike says, I think the prequisite is that the browsers display the pages properly and that we don't get penalised by the search engines for non-validating code.

Tim · #12 (**permalink**) 06-03-2006, 09:49 PM

Because it's an aside, I've moved the discussion about code errors over to the Web Programming Discussion Forum.