Yes, I agree Sualdam.

I think they got enough coverage the first time round.


Cindy

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Now I was not talking about people being put down.

I have been attacked by members who had only posted 1 time, or less then 100 and by guest those are things that we can not help.


I do think you will find that 9 times out of 10 you will see the regular members stand up for the person being attacked but my point was I have never seen a member with over 300 post attack a new member or a guest just because they posted.

The reason I say 300 is because those are the ones that would be posting a lot although you have people like Ronniethedodger and others that have only been here a little but already post a lot.

This is a great forum and I hate for it to look like something happenes here that is not true or that I have never seen happen and I spend a lot of time here.

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It'd be a wonderful world if situations didn't arise where anyone has to 'stick up' for anyone else.

That is the point I'm trying to make: if we take on board the concerns that one or two people have - even if we don't agree, can't see it, or if it involves a tiny minority of members - then things will run perhaps a little more smoothly than they might if we don't.

Like I say, Janeth, just because we as individuals aren't aware of or cannot see certain issues doesn't mean they don't exist (and vice versa, of course).

We aren't going to decide by argument either a) that there is a problem or b) that there isn't. My opinion that there IS a problem is just as valid as your opinion that there ISN'T.

All we can do is acknowledge other people's opinions and bear them in mind if situations arise in future :)

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Sualdam

Hi to all newbies and experts

Thank you to all who have helped me with my site over the past few months. I'm a relative newbie and don't know much of the Jargon on this subject but have been able to ask simple 'specific'questions and have managed to obtain simple, direct to the point answers. As for having friends on the site, great!! I have not found this site to be exclusive and hey it's natural to form friendships.

Happy New Year to ALL!!

Wow, great topic guys! Thanks to greeneagle for bringing it up, minstrel for making it its own thread, and everyone who replied for sharing your unique perspectives. Everyone is bringing up good points, so forgive me for not being able to reply to each of you individually. Instead, I'm replying to a few key issues.

Looking at the original post, I think what Ken was getting at is the importance of explaining yourself and choosing your words wisely because not everyone here is an 'expert' and it's all too easy to misinterpret statements made online. As rlrouse said, little things we overlook, such as the use of abbreviations, can be very confusing to newbies. When I was just starting out using online forums and instant messengers, for the longest time, I thought "LOL" meant "Lots of Love." Imagine how silly I felt when someone finally explained to me that I was "Laughing Out Loud" rather than expressing my feelings! ;)

One question that's always on my mind is: how to get new members more involved? People are often shy or cautious in terms of posting. Many seem reluctant to just dive right into conversations. How can we make them feel more welcome? Automated welcome emails to all new members and replies to each new post in the introductions forum are just two great suggestions.

I think this thread is good overall for WebProWorld. It's often hard to step back and look at your own site from another perspective, so it's great to have all of you around to offer your opinions. It's also encouraging to see that most of the members realize WebProWorld is not perfect (we're always looking for ways to improve ourselves) but that you enjoy the forum enough to keep returning, and even offer words of encouragement. Thanks for the constructive criticism! :)

Brittany

In the heat of discussion it looks like a new member interjected an issue that was not picked up. I am not sure whether it belongs here, in another thread or answered by email. Could one of the moderators or some who can help have a look (page 2)?

gone said:
If I may interject something here, being a newbie to your BB and a minor point of discusion on this thread? I have debated for sometime if I would join in the forums.
First the tactics to get the word out about this site are relentless, blocked emails are circumvented by this site and DEV forcing me to deal with 2 and 3 emails a day, whether blocked or not. This point is a bit irritating to say the least but not being a newbie in all fields I know abit about SQL and if left no choice would make my intentions known...

Thanks,
Ken

Speaking for myself only, we were all "newbies" once, and we "geeks" have the benifit of much experience, so in that vein, it's always a good idea to spell things out clearly for all the newbies. And I do sometimes forget to spell things out!

Anywho, I'd like to extend my services of computer support to all, no charge ever, to help someone out with computer problems and/or questions, send an email to support@customcomputerhaven.com anytime. I'll be reinstalling live support in the next couple of weeks which (when reinstalled) will be available from 8:30AM to 10PM EST Monday through Friday.

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hey man i'm posting this (from my archives from anoher forum) to show you that i'm on your side too...and i apologize for any posts that have ever seemed self serving to you.

but i would also like to point out that i have never seen any WPW MOD or vet or mvp take any derisive posture nor ostracize the newbie in any way....

in fact, on the contrary, i can only speak from experience becasue i live w/ a newbie here on WPW who is TERRIFIED to post anything well, just becasue she's a newbie and doesn't know a lot of the terminology but she also understands that one day in time she will....and the staff at WPW went OUT OF THEIR WAY to make her feel more comfortable and i commend them highly for that!!! and numers other members even PM 'd her to give her some reference/starting pointers.....

hey man it's real easy to complain......try wearing a MODs' shoes for one day and i'm sure you see that their's is no easy task...they are beseeched by all sides & politics to respond.....and they must walk that delicate line between Moderating and Policing and i think they do a smashing job at it

look at me i'm probably one of the most annoying poster's ever on this site but i dont give a ___ because if i'm anoying then it's your problem not mine really...
i've even put plenty of posts up that were immediately taken down because well...i'm a little nuts and sometimes i just dont think before i hit the RETURN button but i every case i got a PM explaining why the necessary course of action ws taken....and of course i understood

but if you read through a lot of my shenagianlike posts that do endure you will also see gems of sincerity and pearls of honesty that, i hope you all realize, are the true elements in the overall message...

i have not come accross any WPW members that are enduring personalities here that don't go out of their way to help the newcomer.....

i have coded pages, made logos for free, made flash files for free......to many a newbie.....but i admit i'm not jesus and yes i work at a computer 18 hour days at times and yes there are time when i don't wish/have the time to take a lenghtly explanation to a newbies ears.....and i just want to see who is goofing off in the break room......just like in the 2nd grade when my favorite subject was lunch and my second favorite was gym.....there are times in life when the banalities of existence are only alleviated by trivial pun2pun quidProquo joke for joke exchanges between human beings.

the days that i don't laugh are the days that i feel dead : (



DAREN

php timeout ooops

sorry my bad--this is not sophisticated spam i swear to god

Wow! What a tremendous topic! I think I'd get less attention if I set my own hair on fire...on camera (:
So many diverse opinions and so much energy; I'm tired from reading it all and at the same time glad that I did.
Everyone has raised a valid, and/or a thought provoking opinion. Bravo!
I was raised that NO opinion was wrong...after all, it is only an opinion. How can it be wrong?
In all of my management courses I was taught to be very cautious and to always choose my words (verbal or written) very carefully because people perceive them very differently. Interpretation of our words seems to be at the root of some of these (very heated) posts.
To get back on topic, the young lady that mentioned that we were all newbies once is right on. There may be a lot of "Geeks" here (and I thank God for that!)
but there are many specialties and sub-specialties mastered by the WPW forum members. Many of us know little or nothing about what another member's profession actually IS.
I have fully admitted to knowing a little bit about a lot of subjects- that makes me dangerous with the exception of my own area of expertise.
If I didn't have all of you to rely on my world would be sheer bedlam!
Because of the generosity I've been shown I am always happy to help with questions regarding SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and copywriting as it pertains to the web. Feel free to email me or leave a private message if you're uncomfortable about posting.
I believe in "Paying it Forward", just like in the book and hope that the Christmas Wish List goes year 'round.
Happy New Year Everyone! And THANKS for an informative and entertaining 2003!

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Glynn Gallagher aka "RED"
lock picks, locksmith tools

Hi Red

Very good post I love the part

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Thanks Ken...but it got pushed down again. So I am grabbing the baton from you...and passing it on up the line again. ;0)

The one forum that new members post to first, outside of the Site Review, is the New Member Introductions area. Another is the Submitted Photos, but that is usually down the line a bit.

I have noticed a few people going into the New Member Introduction Forum now (probably as a result of this thread) and just saying "Hi" or writing a few words in recognition of where they are from or that they like their site. Some greetings are obvious cut & paste jobs, but the thought really does matter here.

This takes very little time to do in comparison to doing a Site Review on top of that, and I encourage everyone to drop a line. Even if all you have time for is just a few off of the top of the list. It is really easy to do and goes a long way. Although, I tend to skip any that has the word "free" in title.

One thing that posting a hello does, is that it offers them their very first chance to post a response back....on their own ground, in their own topic. It breaks down a lot of barriers right off the bat, makes them feel welcomed, feel more at ease and it get's them involved. So...just say Hi-ya.

And if you do the cut & paste job, spell out "Welcome to WPW" okay! The person who is doing this knows who she is...and it won't tolerated any more, okay young lady? ;0)

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Wow I'll have to visit this part of the forum more often, nice thread. I agree with Ken's overal perception of what can happen on WPW but would like to add my own thoughts / comments.

1. Clarity of posts. - I have just read the original 'google changes' post that started this discussion. I have to admit that in reality I didn't understand the specifics of it. I understood the generality - Google have made a minor change, here's what to do to check. The question therefore is - Is that a problem and the answer is NO. I only have a few public sites that I worry about rankings (all are top 5 for the keywords I/they want). Reading that post, I thought, does this cause me a problem, I checked via a normal google search and they were all still ranked top 5 - conclusion no problem. Yes that post was full of jargon, BUT it wasn't aimed at newbies, it was a high level heads up to other SEO experts. If I wanted more info I could have asked. We all have to bear in mind that some posts in here aren't intended for newbies, most posts fit into either, simple, general or specific and there is enough of a mix to keep members happy.

2. Threads going off topic - It does happen and shouldn't. The place for off topic threads and general quirkiness is the break room. We should all (especially the estabilshed members) bear this in mind when posting, each forum is clearly designated for its topic subject and thats what should be covered. Perhaps the Mods (including myself here) should split more topics when they move away from the original topic to a different subject.

3. Cliquiness - Yes it does happen but I don't think this is a neccassarily a bad thing. I could have easilly started this post with 'Much as I hate to agree with Matauri & Sauldam ...' it establishes bonds between the members and doesn't exclude anyone. What happens more is a predictability of posting (In site design, if someone posts about frames you know I'll jump in and you can bet if someone says it doesn't work in some obscure browser the poster will be Carbonize), this trait then gets refered to by other regular members. Sorry thats the way life is, people use 'in' termanology and reference, but when responding to 'newbies' I do notice people are usually more careful in the choice of words.

4. Welcomes and Moderating - Each Mod is actually only responsible for the forums that they Moderate, we all try to help each other out and of course contribute in other forums but most of us don't have the time to check all the forums on WPW every day. I don't think I've been in the Introductions forum in months and I've never been in the MLM one. Also in case anyone doesn't realise we only have Mod powers in our designated forums. I can't edit or delete anything more in this forum that a one post newbie. Yes it would be nice to pop into Introductions and welcome someone but there are only so many hours in ad ay. Perhaps a new Mod or two should be appointed with the specific task of Welcoming new members?

5. Overall - This forum is a balancing act between newbies and existing members. If Janeth posts a heavy duty specific question in SEO I would expect Rlouse to reply with a detailed technical explaination that I don't understand. Just as I know if a newbie posts a simplistic question in there Janeth or someone else will respond with a clear simple answer. The overall feel we have to try to get across on WPW is BOTH a friendly place where newbies can ask 'newbie' questions and get a nice response AND where a 'Pro' can ask a detailed techie question and get a detailed techie response.

Julian

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Oh well everyone else does it - http://www.jctdesigns.com - http://www.swanseawaterbeds.co.uk - http://www.aquabathroomcentre.co.uk/onlineshop/

Hi Ron,

I was just trying to catch up there was a lot of them. lol

I´m sorry and there will be no more cut and paste on my part I promise.

It would help if the people that wanted to say Hi could some how get a private email when a new member post there just so we know.

I´m getting old and it is hard for me to remember to check there from time to time. When I do check I´m not sure who I have already said Hi to and who I have not said Hi to.

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Resistance is futile ! ;-)

In regards to your section on Clarity of Posts, thats why I think that there should be a category that caters to the newbie to intermediates in fields such as SEO, site designs, graphic design, programming, etc. (the main core subjects) An eager beaver willing to learn would probably like to know the same answer as a Pro does, but doesnt have the vocabulary/understanding of the Pro. I know I am the same in Flash & Programming. I realize that these guys know what they are talking about, but I am a few steps behind them & end up having to read a lot of external material just to know what they are talking about when they discuss a problem. I dont like to interupt their thread with silly questions, so I sit on the sidelines & just try & understand.

Remember, the Internet has made the most progress in the past few years, the years that most of us have been in the industry. So we have grown into areas like a comfortable pairs of shoes. Others are completely new to many areas of IT (internet technology), so they are on a completely different level. Another forum where people wouldnt feel intimidated to ask the 'simple' questions would give them a good learning point, and would also provide the more experienced people an avenue in which to develop their teaching abilities.

Thats not such a bad idea really. I have been involved with forums that have done that before. It is a pretty time consuming position though at times, because shyer posters establish a bond with that person & use them as a support person.


Cindy

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Web Development Community ::: Forum ::: Library

It' time for Progressive Web & IT Development!

Good morning all, 5.30AM here in SW Colorado and snowing lightly,,,,

Just to bring this up again

Like I said before I have been doing a LOT of reading here and learning a lot and I thank you all. The off topic posts though is what makes it the hardest, trying to learn something and having to go through the off topic fun comments gets old and you loose interest after so long as you feel this is going nowhere and it take to much time to go through it all.

In all of the reading I have done here I have not found one, did I miss it??

All Have a great day,, THINK SNOW!!

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Have just spent ages reading through this thread and as someone who has only recently really got going on the subject would like to offer a couple of suggestions/comments.

It is not a problem to most people if there are cliques so long as people continue to respond to newbies and support and respond in a helpful manner - this generally is the case as far as I can see. It is easy at times to be oversensitive to comments which may have been hastily written and had not deliberately meant to cause offence or irritation.

I don't think that there have been any occasions where people have been anything but helpful in any of the responses to my postings - including when I asked for advice when I first built my website - I only got helpful advice, positive comments and constructive criticism - no-one tried to belittle my efforts or deliberately try to confuse by being too technical.

It would be helpful however, to those of us who have some though not enough knowledge of jargon, if the moderators or someone else there at WPW could keep an online dictionary of terms for those who would like to check the meaning but don't have the time to hunt through previous threads to find out! If this does already exist then please could its location be clearer and perhaps pointed out to new members.

Don't let a great discussion forum get bogged down by people griping about things that probably only concern very few postings and even fewer individuals!

Jen

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Wouldn't that be like a government smewhere employing minister for 'The Sun Rising in the Morning'?

Did you get an army surplus drum of sugar-coating syrup for Christmas, Julian? :)

I don't think this was what the original post was about.

The only thing there is even the slightest problem with is cliqueiness, it seems. And it is slight - just something to watch out for in future (or continue to deny the existence of - whichever suits you ;))

So why would we all of a sudden need 'Welcoming Moderators'? I didn't see that one coming at me out of the sun, I can assure you :)

Reminds me of my employer: we have a machine break down on us. Do we:

a) Repair it
b) Buy a new one
c) Arrange a one-week long, off-site team meeting in the Alps to discuss the future direction of the company by bonding and meeting 'special challenges' (i..e abseiling and rock-climbing) together.

Seems like c) was the right answer all along :D Go figure.

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Sualdam

Quite right!

The problem isn't huge, but EVERYONE can be guilty of it to a small extent. (And, of course, don't forget that what isn't huge to you might be titanic to others).

How many times has someone asked a question that's either been asked a zillion times before and/or at least once today already?

And how many times has someone answered tersely or just pasted a link to another reply?