Removing a clients website for non-payment. Need advice.

[destin-ation]

I removed a clients website from the internet for non-payment of website design service after all efforts to be paid was exhausted and the account was several months past due (by the way…they are doing this to other businesses in town). Now…the client is claiming they are turning this over to their lawyer….claiming we severely harmed their business. The restaurant website was down for less than 24 hours. We reinstalled the website, after they paid less than ½ the amount due. We gave them a 30 day extension on the remaining amount due. Now…they refuse to pay the remaining amount and they are threatening to sue us. This is getting ugly. Has anyone else…ever had to pull down a clients website due to non-payment? If so, what was the outcome? If anyone can share their experience, I’m sure we could all learn from this. Are there any general website ethics rules about having to pull down a website? Any advice on this issue would be appreciated. The client still owes me $1,200 and refuses to pay. I’ve been designing websites for over 10 years and I have never had to go to the extreme of removing a clients website. I could use a little advice from fellow web designers.

[staker2]

I used to freelance for a company that routinely pulled down websites for non-payment. They stated it clearly in their TOS on their website and included it in the contract that the client signed. As long as you have a contract, tell them to "bring it". They won't pay $2000.00 to a lawyer to avoid paying you $700.00; at the most they will pay the lawyer $100.00 to send you a strongly worded letter. I think they are trying to weasel out of the last payment, myself.

If you don't have a contract that clearly states that the service will be terminated in the event of non-payment, I honestly am not sure what the legal repercussions would be. I would think you could easily argue that you provided value for money and have the right to be paid, but it may require more $$ to back it up.

[danners]

This should be split into 2 parts:
1. Hosting
2. Website files
Is the hosting yours or theirs and what agreements if any were in place. Have they paid for the hosting?
Website files should be owned by yourself until paid for in full - they have paid half: give them an ultimatum to pay the rest (2-4 weeks).
I am guessing you dont have an agreement in place. Would ignore any legal threats - they cant even afford to pay you let alone lawyers and unless there is a signed contract in place upon which to sue.
I personally love turning off bad clients' websites when they do not pay and do it as soon as I have put the phone down after chasing money for the last time. Funny how it elicits payments pretty quickly.

[newconceptdesign]

I have been in a situation like this before. In my opinion the best way is to get in touch with collection agency and let the professionals to collect your payments. Basically, you should have threaten them not the opposite. Of course this option works if you have few customers like this. In my case I was able to recover about 60% of what I lost and that is better than nothing.

One important step is to gather all the documentation related to that, including contract if you have any, all e-mail exchanges etc. Just make sure you have the documentation clearly stating that you were hired to do the job and you were not paid for it.

Finally, try to do as much communication as possible using their fax number rather than e-mail. If you have a fax and ability to print reports you will have a proof that on a certain day and time the fax was sent to them and was received.

E-mails are only good if you have a reply for them.

Finally, if you have a bit of money to spent, consult the lawyer. I have done it as well. In Canada, I would pay around $100.00 for a letter and if you are looking at getting back $1200.00, it is worth it.

I also know what you are feeling. You have created a project, you should by paid for it and the customer is at fault, but when you heard a word "lawyer" you got scared. That is normal. This is why you need to have all the documentation to back your claim up and proper advise.

I hope I have helped you a bit.

[newconceptdesign]

In Canada you don't need the contract. In my case I had a reply to e-mail with the proposal stating "go ahead" with the project. That was enough.

This is why I advise to consult the professional as Florida laws may require something different.

I agree with staker2. You have to look at the agreement with your client and I would probably take away some functionality from the web site stating that this is what they have paid for.

[adtastichosting]

Yes, it is two issues, hosting and web design. However, they tend to go together to a great extent. Being in the business of hosting and also web design we have run into this once or twice were we put up (hosted) a website we designed and after not getting final payment in a timely manner had to suspend the hosting of the site.

Having a decent web design legal agreement that spells out about payment (for example stating that the designer owns all copyright to the design and entire website until final payment is made by the client so that the client cannot run off with all the design work and host it somewhere else without paying you), as well as a hosting agreement which clearly states that in the event of failure to pay for ANY services (not just hosting) could result in suspension of the hosting account (in addition to other measures that may be available to collect payment). (also I would add that when we email an invoice to a client at the bottom of the invoice it states: All services are subject to our terms of service as specified HERE (link provided on invoice). Your payment of this invoice constitutes full agreement and you are bound by those terms of service.)

That really nails it to the wall, so to speak and no one ever reads those anyways, lol. Out of about 400 customers I have never had a one say anything about it or the TOS or not paid or balked because of that link. But I have had a couple of customers that needed it pointed out to them and they paid me immediately thereafter, realizing we had the teeth and it would cost them a lot more if they didn't pay us because if I sue someone here in small claims court for my money it will be for treble damages and chances are I will win and I know how to collect a judgement.

I am not an attorney so I cannot give you legal advice but my agreements were written by an attorney and state the gist of the above, amongst other things.

Also too, I still think that even in the absence of legal agreements spelling out the above details, a person that is both designing and hosting a site and is doing so based upon the expectation of a certain payment amount for said design and hosting; and that does not get the amount specified and (I hope) agreed to in writing, ie, stiffed by the client, would have a very strong case in a court of law if argued properly and strong supporting documentation of the work and actions performed are provided.

Assuming I did not have such legal agreement in hand and was faced with the same situation I think that is what I would tell the client in very strong terms that I had all the supporting documentation I needed to prove thw work that was done and the associated hosting was part of that work and service being provided and requirement for payment that dealt with either effected them in their entirety and that any suit on their behalf would be without merit and dealt with accordingly.

Besides which, even for them to prove actual damages would probably be difficult at best. Just my thoughts on it.

[puamana]

If the hosting server is yours, it's easy to remove the site. If it's someplace else, it's a bit harder. I've had clients change access information (passwords) so I couldn't do anything to their site, and obviously if they did that, they were never planning on paying their bill. An attorney letter, and if no response, then a collection agency is a good place to go from there.

One thing I usually do when I'm starting a site is require a 50% deposit on the estimated cost up front, before beginning any design or programming work. At least that way, you know they are serious, and have the money to spend.

Some clients (who have been good clients in the past) have been having an increasingly difficult time paying due to the poor economy. In cases like that, they are usually trying to get SOMETHING to me, even if the payment is a 'token' small one. Here patience and understanding is necessary. They will finally pay you, though it may take some additional time.

If the client is someone who is trying to get something for nothing, as appears the case here, I'd remove all design and programming, leaving up ONLY the unformatted text which they provided and any images they provided or paid for (like stock images). You could also setup a page on the site as index saying something like

"This website is currently unavailable due to non-payment."

This will embarrass the heck out of them, as they don't want all their customers to know they are deadbeats....

Good luck with this... it's a problem for any self-employed webmaster.

-puamana

[destin-ation]

I have been in a situation like this before. In my opinion the best way is to get in touch with collection agency and let the professionals to collect your payments. Basically, you should have threaten them not the opposite. Of course this option works if you have few customers like this. In my case I was able to recover about 60% of what I lost and that is better than nothing.

One important step is to gather all the documentation related to that, including contract if you have any, all e-mail exchanges etc. Just make sure you have the documentation clearly stating that you were hired to do the job and you were not paid for it.

Finally, try to do as much communication as possible using their fax number rather than e-mail. If you have a fax and ability to print reports you will have a proof that on a certain day and time the fax was sent to them and was received.

E-mails are only good if you have a reply for them.

Finally, if you have a bit of money to spent, consult the lawyer. I have done it as well. In Canada, I would pay around $100.00 for a letter and if you are looking at getting back $1200.00, it is worth it.

I also know what you are feeling. You have created a project, you should by paid for it and the customer is at fault, but when you heard a word "lawyer" you got scared. That is normal. This is why you need to have all the documentation to back your claim up and proper advise.

I hope I have helped you a bit.

Thank you so much for your post. This has really shaken me as I worked very hard for this client for over 3 years and I gave them so many services at a reduced price. We have a call into her lawyer and we have since contacted a lawyer. I have LOTS of email correspondence, and lots of payment request correspondence. I always sent a detail bill to her before sending to her accountant. If I did not hear from her within a few days, then I processed her billing. Hosting is in her account, I provided the website work. There is no dispute we did the work…she is claiming and telling business in my community that their business was hurt because her website was down. (Her website was down for less than 24 hours) And….all of a sudden she is now attacking the quality of our work. This is a nightmare. I don’t wish this on anyone in our business. Hopefully, someone can avoid this situation by reading everyone’s comments.

[destin-ation]

If the hosting server is yours, it's easy to remove the site. If it's someplace else, it's a bit harder. I've had clients change access information (passwords) so I couldn't do anything to their site, and obviously if they did that, they were never planning on paying their bill. An attorney letter, and if no response, then a collection agency is a good place to go from there.

One thing I usually do when I'm starting a site is require a 50% deposit on the estimated cost up front, before beginning any design or programming work. At least that way, you know they are serious, and have the money to spend.

Some clients (who have been good clients in the past) have been having an increasingly difficult time paying due to the poor economy. In cases like that, they are usually trying to get SOMETHING to me, even if the payment is a 'token' small one. Here patience and understanding is necessary. They will finally pay you, though it may take some additional time.

If the client is someone who is trying to get something for nothing, as appears the case here, I'd remove all design and programming, leaving up ONLY the unformatted text which they provided and any images they provided or paid for (like stock images). You could also setup a page on the site as index saying something like

"This website is currently unavailable due to non-payment."

This will embarrass the heck out of them, as they don't want all their customers to know they are deadbeats....

Good luck with this... it's a problem for any self-employed webmaster.

-puamana

Thank you...great info. This was a client that paid their bill monthly. We called and gave them a warning and they tried to lock us out instead of working with us.

[destin-ation]

I used to freelance for a company that routinely pulled down websites for non-payment. They stated it clearly in their TOS on their website and included it in the contract that the client signed. As long as you have a contract, tell them to "bring it". They won't pay $2000.00 to a lawyer to avoid paying you $700.00; at the most they will pay the lawyer $100.00 to send you a strongly worded letter. I think they are trying to weasel out of the last payment, myself.

If you don't have a contract that clearly states that the service will be terminated in the event of non-payment, I honestly am not sure what the legal repercussions would be. I would think you could easily argue that you provided value for money and have the right to be paid, but it may require more $$ to back it up.

Yep..looks like we have to spend the $$$. It’s not so much the $$$, it’s how personal they have made it and the time and energy it takes to deal with this. Thank you for your input.