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Thread: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

  1. #61

    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    Don't let go of the rope, I'm not sure that this quicksand can hold my weight.

    I think, MikMik, that you're writing about reality, and I'm not certain that reality and truth are the same thing. (They may be, but I'm just not convinced).
    Why can't I be different and original - like everybody else ?
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  2. #62
    WebProWorld MVP Tubby's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    'Belief' and 'truth' are not the same.

    I have never considered each word in relationship to the other. I think I might do that. (might take me a week)

    One problem I have is that my definition of each word might be different from yours. I can refresh my memory with a dictionary. . . but when I see the word 'Truths" written I probably still have a different image of its meaning than you do.

    I do know that you can lose a 'truth'. . This will cause emotional pain.

    I shall consider this advise from ctabuc

    "Tubby relax - take 5'

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  3. #63
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    mikmik said
    "I don't claim to understand reality fully, but I claim you are all subject to the same one I am.."

    But
    In my reality you cannot see or touch a ghost because they have no physical content.

    In ctabuc reality you can see a ghost.

    There seems to be difference - I would not dream of arguing this topic. I would not win.

    But I will ask the question of ctabuc, for my own understanding. Ctabuc do you think that ghosts have physical content?

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  4. #64

    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby View Post
    'Belief' and 'truth' are not the same.
    That's true, I believe.

    I agree with you Tubby - BUT......

    In the OED (2006 edition) there are three definitions of truth. The first two aren't very helpful ((1) The state of being true (2) that which is true, true facts) while the third is: fact or belief that is accepted as true.

    I don't know what to make of that, do you ?

    Does it mean that the world used to be flat ?
    Why can't I be different and original - like everybody else ?
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  5. #65
    WebProWorld MVP Tubby's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    'Belief' and 'truth' are not the same. I never said that... I think I might have forgot to attribute the quote it mikmik

    I am pondering the difference.

    I am happy with with none conflicting aspect to define truth for me.
    beliefs seem to be capable of contradicting anything and everything to its hearts content.

    so today I am pondering -

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  6. #66
    WebProWorld MVP ctabuk's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby View Post
    mikmik said
    "I don't claim to understand reality fully, but I claim you are all subject to the same one I am.."

    But
    In my reality you cannot see or touch a ghost because they have no physical content.

    In ctabuc reality you can see a ghost.

    There seems to be difference - I would not dream of arguing this topic. I would not win.

    But I will ask the question of ctabuc, for my own understanding. Ctabuc do you think that ghosts have physical content?

    In their own dimension -yes

    In ours - perhaps

    I am sorry to be vague - but I have seen what I have seen.

    It was about 4 years ago that I first saw him - I was digging a new pond and had found a layer of bricks about 4feet down -transpires that it was the top of a roof over a Victorian sewer system - I had the bricks dated to 1865 - I heard footsteps coming from behind me and as only my wife Leslie and I were in the garden I assumed it was her - but when I turned round there was a guy standing there -he was there for a millisecond -all I saw was a long trench coat. But then there was a nasty smell - and as I was removing the bricks I sniffed into the holes created and it was as clean as a whistle. Later on I unearthed a really old toilet chain -my theory was that the farmhands who had installed the sewer system had also built and outside toilet and the whiff and the guy had as it were come back through time.

    I have seen him a few times around the garden, I think he likes our back to nature and old fashioned themes.


    The guitar thing on youtube is really weird - but I have never made an issue of it as let's face it who would believe me? The wind farm Google hoaxer

  7. #67
    WebProWorld MVP Tubby's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    ctabuk said
    'I am sorry to be vague - but I have seen what I have seen.'
    no need to be sorry mate.


    I am interested. You heard, smelt, and saw.

    There a good number of people that have met ghost, and a good few accept a different dimension (or time anomaly) as the only logical explanation.

    Can I ask one more question David, did it scare you? (I am looking for some sort of emotional exchange (or not) between you and the ghost)

    I never clicked the Utube link, I waste far too much time chatting as it is.

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  8. #68
    WebProWorld MVP ctabuk's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    No - not a bit - in fact I love that cold shiver feel - I was in a guys office once and I said 'Do you know you have a ghost?' 'Oh that's George - worked here 100 years ago, some people pick him up, others don't'.

    There is absolutely nothing to fear about dying - it comes to us all - I'm not looking forward to saying bye bye to Leslie, we've been together for 35 years married and a year before that as a couple - but it will happen.

    OK there are arguments against this - arrogance of the human physche comes to mind - Three score years and ten and we get to LIVE FOREVER AFTER!! That makes very little sense to me - seventy or a hundred years is a drop in the ocean - this earth has been here for millions of years.

    The dinosaurs were here long before us. And in many ways it's only in the last century that Man has leapt forward.

    100 years ago today was 1907 - No cars - horse and cart jobby That is only 876,600 hours ago!!

    I find that frightening. World Wars 1 & 2 were yet to be played out.

    BUT - we have something called the Human Spirit and that is what lives on.

  9. #69
    WebProWorld MVP Tubby's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    re my question to David
    " (I am looking for some sort of emotional exchange (or not) between you and the ghost) "

    the reason I ask is because I speculate that an emotional trigger is what is required to set our intelligence in motion.
    Meeting a ghost that you can see hear and smell, is a huge experience. But with no emotional exchange. . just an experience.

    I would speculate the intelligence now (with an emotional exchange) has the required stimulus to go searching for confirmation patterns, Items about different dimensions might be 'logged' for example. I speculate only items of conformation would be recognised, (items that do not conform would ultimatly be disproved) until an intelligence of 'proof' slowly evolves.

    I woulds suspect that at some time in the future arguing with ctabuk that there is no other dimensions (or Ghosts) would be futile. (because he knows better)

    yes you are welcome to pick holes in the above. . It is a bit wild and woolly. happy to accept feedback on this thought.

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  10. #70
    WebProWorld MVP ctabuk's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden, Heaven and 72 virgins.

    I don't think that you and would ever argue - more likely to open a few bottles and solve the problems of the universe.

    In between posts I have had to get rid of spammers here in WPW - I wish those poor sods would get a life.

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