"Hippy Jobs"

[Akashic]

I have a restaurant client who asked me a few years ago if I would come in and 'over lunch' teach his junior office assistant how to update and maintain their site, as a favour, to save them money.

I responded "certainly, in return I'll come in the following day and 'over lunch' you can teach me everything there is to know about being a chef'. Funnily enough he never asked again and years later is still paying me to update and maintain his site.

Same as some of the other posters above, I do the occassional freebie but only for non profit groups that I'm involved with. I find it insulting that people in business would expect my time for free and will quite happily say so.

p.s. I'm a middle aged hippy chick, proud of it, productive and hard working and sometimes I can even look respectable

[MarcGrobman]

Agreed: Hippy is not completely accurate -- the internet as we know it was colonized and shaped, if not created, by hippies. (Anyone else here remember the Well?)

Still it is a great title and as soon as I read it I knew exactly what you meant and it is hilarious! If hippies can't laugh at themselves they should take a shower and go get a job. Just kidding -- I'm proud to operate with hippie values.

But here in LA it particularly it seems like everyone has Thee Next Big Idea and all they need is a website and suddenly they'll be rich. They want you to spend hours figuring it all out for them so you can get a cut.

Like others, I do free work for good causes and friends I support and I do some trade once in a while. And I (ususally) don't regret it. Its good karma, man.

[MarcThai]

Oh yeah! I get them all the time here in Thailand. With so much piracy going around, people here think anything to do with IT should be free. There's only one thing to do. Tell them No and show them how much other people have paid. They soon get the message.

I did a stupid thing recently. I took pity on a Californian living in Bali who exports Asian furniture. He asked me to do a couple of simple one page HTML sites. I agreed to do them for a pittance because I did the work myself instead of getting my staff to do it.

Since then, he has hounded me asking for help to set up his hosting server, transfer his DNS, upload other sites, teach him how to use the internet, and so on. I keep explaining that I will be happy to do this work for a fee. He ignores that and now he has started getting his girlfriend to call me instead. She gets huffy when I explain I will do it for a fee, and then she hangs up in my ear.

Never, ever, ever do any work for free, not even for the non-profits. They are making money, believe me. They can afford to pay. But they will try to play on the goodness of your heart just as much as any other freeloader. As for church groups? They must pay too. I am in business, just as they are. Why should I waste my time helping them promote their agendas. If they can't afford it, tough luck. Maybe god will give them the money, or even write their website for them. He does specialize in miracles, doesn't he?

[espectations]

The latest I get is that I should join their affiliate program in exchange for the SEO and online marketing - HUH????

I also did work in exchange for commission at one time but the only thing that happened with me was that we had a lot of bookings for the travel industry lined up, two aircraft flew into buildings, not even in my country and our target market got scared to fly, cancelled all their trips and I ended up doing work for two years at my expense with no return.

That was the end of my willingness to make deals with people that cannot afford to pay.

BTW - since Mark Shuttleworth made his millions/billions, everybody in South Africa thinks that you get a web site, sit back and relax and become the next Mark Shuttleworth so please be assured that LA is not the only place where that happens.

3 years ago I started blogging for my clients - they thought I was cursing them when I talked about blogging and RSS - in 2007 South Africa only cought on - now all of a sudden everybody wants blogs for free but do you think they even update it????

The radio stations here are lately big on blogging but did not catch up on video and podcasting yet.

With the SMS it is even worse - we provide 9 free TEST credits with the test accounts in order for clients to confirm delivery to their networks and to give them a chance to familiarize themselves with the software and web interface before they purchase credits.

So everybody thinks everything SMS related is free......

I guess we will all have to put up with the freeloaders out there. It is up to us to say "No thank you I would rather be paid for my time and services"

[Peter (IMC)]

I have this experience as well. Sometimes people think that we should give guarantees of first positions or worse, only get paid when we get those first positions. Sometimes I feel like saying: "Sure,. you give me 40% of your company and we´ll work for free." But then you get the "new" companies interested that pretty much have a "good" idea but absolutely no value.

My experience is also that bigger companies never come up with these kind of request. Obviously they understand that if you want to do business, there is a certain risk involved.

But then there are still companies that are established, also understand that marketing costs money, but when they ask for something like this, what´s really going on is "fear of the unknown". Sure everybody knows what the internet is and what search engines are, but investing in them is often still a scary thing. They know its important because many others are doing it too, but they´re still scared. That´s when they try to reduce their risks...

This shows that making sure you do good research is one of the best ways to reduce risks because as strange as it may sound to some, the biggest risk factor in your business, is you!

[DrTandem1]

Hippy was/is a counter culture political movement of which I proudly took part of in the 60s and 70s. Most of my idea about love, life and spirituality was formed from the hippy culture. It has NOTHING to do with freeloading. I had a very good webmaster beg me to redesign my own site for publicity and out of love of the subject of my site. I said no because it wouldn't feel like it was mine. But bartering is fairly harmless. So I don't see a problem, I don't see a purpose for this thread, and 'hippy jobs' is a very stupid meaningless term, if not downright offensive. Is an all flash site a rap job? Is begging for links "hip hopping?" Most homeless beggars are actually war veterans. Maybe a better term would be "used up war vet jobs?"

Firstly, most homeless beggars are not war veterans. They simply hold signs saying that they are veterans hoping you will feel guilty and give them more money to supply their substance abuse. Not that there aren't homeless veterans, but the common thread is substance abusers, not the fact that they served their country.

The 60's counter culture was nothing more than communism as found in the "Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx. It failed for the same reason communism and socialism always fails. It kills motivation by rewarding each person the same regardless of their individual contribution and is usually governed by a small group of elitists that are exempted from the rules they have established.

The hippie culture was, in the words of Dr. Timothy Leary, "Turn on, tune in and drop out." It was simply, "If it feels good, do it." Unfortunately, none of that pays the rent and you will eventually go hungry and homeless.

Now, as to the topic, it is sometimes good to do a site for a good cause as pro bono work or at least at a reduced rate. As for profit sharing on a venture, get it in writing with a solid contract and be sure to retain enough control that you won't be screwed.

I think the original post associated hippies with those wanting free work because hippies are synonymous with the word "free." The hippie culture quickly died around the time you first saw van bumper stickers saying "Cash, grass or ass, no one rides for free."

I have worked out different deals with different sites and some have been very profitable even though they were not a straight cash deal.

[operagost]

"Hippy" does not mean freeloader. Nor does it mean a person who won't work or take a bath. It is a perjorative term that was used to refer to the counterculture people of the sixties who fought hard against many injustices and abuses of power, and took beatings from police and abuse from the society at large for their trouble.

Actually, I think it's the Civil Rights Act we have to thank for that, and the people who put that together were decidedly un-hippy.

[operagost]

Agreed: Hippy is not completely accurate -- the internet as we know it was colonized and shaped, if not created, by hippies. (Anyone else here remember the Well?)

I do, and it wasn't the Internet. The internet, email, USENET, and the WWW were created by smart people and outright nerds. Hippies managed to create BSD... probably while on LSD.

[Veikoh]

Personally I’m getting involved in project mostly on commission basis. This shows that I believe to my partner business and he/she believes that I’m committed to increase value of his business.
With attitude “I’m a cool guy asking $$$ to work for you” and “I’m a rich cool guy spending $$$ to slave you” minority of civilisation of pissed of the majority causing September 11th, suicide bombers and WW3.
Doing for money something you do not believe is just the prostitution.
What this has to do with Hippy’s?

Veiko
Veiko Herne – lifetime entrepreneur with adventurous soul

[oohdale]

Most every thing I could say has already been said here. I was a Hippie back after I came home from the U.S.Air Force in 1972. I knew what you meant right from the start of your post. The real answer is work NOT for free. And that you can take to the Bank. Sell nothing over the internet till you get paid first. I been taken like the rest. Not any more though. I smarten up. No Money No Show.

Heck I been taken by folks I have known for many years but, never met. Webmasters too, but then again I have been burned by others in a different business too. Makes no difference, get Paid then do the work. Time is precious, and so is those greenbacks. Done here, back to hand coding. Ain't it fun?


btw: The Way of the Hippie