AJAX technologies for Portals

[laverto]

I've just posted the reply by LAVERTO in this topic http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic...=321066#321066
and thought may be I am wrong when I say people that AJAX is the best way to create a design for portals. How do you think?

Tallk soon,
Annet

Project Manager
SavvyBox Systems - web development and digital solutions
http://shareberryproject.com
http://spinpike.com

[Dcrux]

I wouldn't be surprised to see DHTML 2.0 (oops, sorry AJAX) get the same reputation Flash has in just a few years. People will, of course, blame the users/designers.

Hint: All scripts for "effects," no user science backing a reason for the effects.

However I remain hopeful. Many AJAX developers understand the only purpose for ajax is the user experience. Not just Ajax=XMLHttpRequest, user focus, user testing, and innovation of the user experience. There are too many unfindable web widgets for AJAX developers to become overly infatuated with the technology.

Otherwise, AJAX is just more koolaid.

[laverto]

Thanks Dcrux,

nice word "koolaid" :) I agree about the flash history. Now it's a usual part of main pages almost all quality sites. Who could think so before?

So, time will tell...

Cheers,
Annet

[Peter (IMC)]

My main worry with ajax is its ability to be used for cloaking and worse. Only one action of the visitor is required to change the appearance of the page. This action may even be automated in a javascript which a search engine doesn't execute. (maybe it doesn't work quite like that, I´m not a programmer, but I am pretty sure somebody will figure out a way. In any way, it seems to me that ajax can be used for this purpose.)

But the use of it to prevent reloads of the page to get better statistics is great. User experience is also great.

It will be interesting to see how it develops and what search engines decide to do with it.

[laverto]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your opinion. The company where I am working now is making four portals at once. It's important to me to know points of view usual visitors (not IT specialists). We decided to do these portals' structure like this http://start.com, of course, with another design :)

All the best,
Annet

Project Manager
SavvyBox System - web development and digital solution
http://shareberryproject.com
http://spinpike.com

[Dcrux]

It's important to me to know points of view usual visitors (not IT specialists).

User testing is important -- if only more companies did user testing. Let's see what an advocate of sitting users down and observing them says...

What do you think of the current implementations of AJAX (Google Maps, Writely, Google Suggest, Zimbra, etc.) on the Web today?

They are irrelevant for the vast majority of business web sites. (And by "business web site" I also mean sites for government agencies and non-profits.)

A business site will profit much more from writing better headlines than from sticking a programming trick on its pages.

.... The very nerdiness of the name "AJAX" gives me hope that it will be used for causes more worthwhile than those now characteristic of Flash. Doomed by its own name, Flash had similar potential but was so grossly abused for "flashy" design that it never succeeded in adding much useful functionality to the Web.

Since AJAX is an engineering idea, it has the opposite problem of leading to featuritis. Remember: just because you love technology and advanced features, it doesn't mean that your customers do.

-- Interview with Jakob Nielsen

Many more sites will put words into the user's mouths than sit them down an prove out the interfaces they design. You can tell when techies get entralled the intoxicating notion "users want this" creeps into conversation without much reference data. But as the new kid on the block, Ajax must not only assert but prove.

For every tutorial on scriting, it's a good idea to read articles on Ajax and Interface Design.

[Peter (IMC)]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your opinion. The company where I am working now is making four portals at once. It's important to me to know points of view usual visitors (not IT specialists). We decided to do these portals' structure like this http://start.com, of course, with another design :)

What can I say? I remember the days that video recorders had 4000 different options while all everybody really wanted were 4 buttons: Record, Play, Stop and Open.

I understand the objective of trying to make the site more interactive. The ability for people to manage the information they need. There are many examples of companies doing these things, and not just on PC's and laptops but also on cell phones. But do people really want this? In my opinion, only in niches.

[pdesigns]

I agree AJAX can cause problems for websites but if used sparingly, or if used for online application services, it can be a great tool. If a service does well using AJAX and gains popularity through it's functionality, optimization for search engines is irrelevant -- as long as the main page gets indexed.

But adding AJAX functionality to load pages dynamically without any meaningful purpose is pretty much pointless and can waste time for the designer and hurt them in terms of search engine indexing.

[laverto]

First, about the flash again. I see how much more functionality it has now - just remember IKEA tours. It wasn't before. It was only like a "pretty little movies".

The second moment is the customer opinion. More customers - more opinions. Where is statistic and where is marketing? Ha-ha... It's not so easy. You can create two types of site design and give them to customer for aprovement. And you know for sure that one of them is perfect and another is poor. More often your customer choose bad design :) And you can't explain it to yourself. And you can't think that your customer is fool because it isn't so and no rules which always work.

As for me when I visit a portal when I want to get as more useful information as possible I need in my own settings of this page. And I choose that portal for my visits which gives me this posibility. Of course, if options which I need to set are too complete I will only angry and wont't visit this portal any more.

Everything needs its Golden Middle.

Annet
Project Manager
SavvyBox Systems
http://shareberryproject.com
http://spinpike.com

[bj]

Honestly, the best uses of AJAX I've seen and experienced have been for "behind the scenes" stuff in admin interfaces, where a choice you make, such as clicking a certain radio button or checkbox or dropdown, results in an immediate response in the interface allowing you to proceed forward in a much quicker and more friendly fashion to GET STUFF DONE.

When used in this way, with much care by the developer in making sure that its use does indeed enhance the user experience AJAX can be very effective. When used to make pretty gradients fade it it's a yawn.

As with ANY other webtool, it's all in how that tool is put to use, and whether use of it enhances the structure in a meaningful way.

In other words, in a discussion like this, I'd be more likely to pay attention if you showed both good and bad examples instead of making blanket statements and generalizations.

Personally, I am not a proponent of flash, but even I recognize that in a GUI, or in a tutorial to show how something is done, or as a platform for serving video, it has its place. But when the dancing pink flamingoes try to sell me a second mortgage with a neon colored interest rate blinking on and off that I have a REAL problem with it. (Which is why I have the Firefox flash blocker installed, and only download and view the flash bits I wish to see.)

Having said all that, as laverto said, any of us in the web design and development business have at least once had experience with the client who, despite us trying our best to talk him out of it, wants what he wants the way he wants it no matter how bad an idea it is, and if you want the paycheck you'll give him what he wants (after making sure there is no way anyone can later tie this abortion to your web design firm . . . )