Is "Jagger" a Major Google Marketing Error?

[greeneagle]

"Jagger" seems to be a mystery everywhere, including SEO Forums. Even webmasterworld is down hard. They chose to move hosting in the middle of this mess and crashed, till Monday according to their Site.

I don't think anyone knows: How to "Google" right now. This kind of alienation directed toward Site Owners, Entrepreneurs, Business Owners, Webmasters, Web Development Companies and SEO/SEM Companies can't bode well in the future, especially in primary seasons. They made the same timing error last year and didn't change their ways this year.

The recent earnings revelations revealing 7x profit in same quarter over last year looks like substantiation for Adword weighting schemes in the algs. Whether any monopolistic claims can be substantiated, is another story.

Whether it needs to be legally substantiated, is another story yet. Is there a gap between "Relevancy" and GOOGLE PPC?, If so, then user popularity will migrate elsewhere.

So far this update (Jagger) seems to have very little deducible logic behind it. IMO – That is a major marketing error on their part!

Companies, and livelihoods are at stake and they seem to be more and more tarnished by corporate earnings to some, especially the many Sites that fell completely out of the SERPs for no apparent reason.

IMO - Communication from GOOGLE to the public is becoming increasingly poor, which will inevitably breed more contempt by users at many levels.

IMO - It would be a serious Marketing Error to not act, and turn this one around now!

It's past time for GOOGLE to improve public communication.

You are laging way behind there, Google. Public Relations is the key to your future and that subset doesn't only consist of paying "Advertisers".

Ken

[aaron2005]

I found Matt's blog this week from someone who linked it here, I was a little interested in finding out "who is Matt" so I spent some time reading his stuff and even whined about a couple of my failing sites in his reinclusion blog post here: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/reincl...request-howto/

Matt has shown interest in building a relationship with webmasters and his blog posts are very active with comments BUT it will soon be more than he can handle yes? This is a great opportunity for Google to start to focus on this and I believe this "reinclusion" is an indicator that they already have.

Matt has this somewhat niave way about him that I find refreshing, he is like a smart kid who built a machine but is yet to learn what the machine has done. He looks to the us and even listens to spammers while he drinks sprite and they get loose lipped from the hard stuff at parties ;)

As I always say, I am no expert but I believe that these search engines are still very primative and making drastic changes really hurts in ways they are not even aware of yet?

[s_clay]

I have heard that many top spots are now being occupied by large corporate entities, etc. I've heard complaints of spam and made for adsense scraper
sites dominating results.

I hear this, but haven't seen it. When I surf for general fun or info, the results I see are good. For my niche, a fairly competitive retail sector, I would not have noticed that there was an update except for the "noise" across the various forums starting from 9/22 and getting increaingly louder.

Traffic for my site is up, rankings are as good or better than they've ever been. In fact, for one new item I've added in the last week, I see page 1 results for a specific term with 22 million results. I nod to the gods here... I know that luck may have something to do with this.

Scrapers and spammers have never been a significant issue in my niche, at least for page one results. A little different for Yahoo and MSN, which let some of these sites in.

For those of you who have been hit hard by this update, take heart from this post on Matt Cutts blog, dated 10/19/05:

"Finally, GoogleGuy posted yesterday or so that a new binary is also wending its way from data centers like 66.102.7.x. And I wouldn’t be surprised if a second stage of the index rolls out around this time next week. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a third stage of the index rolls out the week after that. I just wanted to let people know that there’s still flux to come."

So, it appears that it is much too early to draw conclusions or throw stones.

For the record, WMW did not go down because they moved. Their host had a major hardware failure affecting many websites, not just WMW. After two days of promises with no results, WMW decided to move, resulting in the extended downtime. Just imagine what you would do if your site was down for more than 2 days... Well, maybe it's not so hard to imagine for some of you with Jager still playing.

It's going to be a couple of weeks at least before the dust settle on this. Until then hang tight, listen, watch and make your plans.

[s_clay]

I have heard that many top spots are now being occupied by large corporate entities, spammers and made for adsense scrapers.

I hear this, but haven't seen it. When I surf for general fun or info, the results I see are good. For my niche, a fairly competitive retail sector, I would not have noticed that there was an update except for the "noise" across the various forums starting from 9/22 and getting increaingly louder.

Traffic for my site is up, rankings are as good or better than they've ever been. In fact, for one new item I've added in the last week, I see page 1 results for a specific term with 22 million results. I nod to the gods here... I know that luck may have something to do with this.

Scrapers and spammers have never been a significant issue in my niche, at least for page one results. A little different for Yahoo and MSN, which let some of these sites in.

For those of you who have been hit hard by this update, take heart from this post on Matt Cutts blog, dated 10/19/05:

"Finally, GoogleGuy posted yesterday or so that a new binary is also wending its way from data centers like 66.102.7.x. And I wouldn’t be surprised if a second stage of the index rolls out around this time next week. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a third stage of the index rolls out the week after that. I just wanted to let people know that there’s still flux to come."

So, it appears that it is much too early to draw conclusions or throw stones.

For the record, WMW did not go down because they moved. Their host had a major hardware/infrastructure failure affecting their DNS server and many websites, not just WMW. After two days of promises with no results, WMW decided to move, resulting in the extended downtime. Just imagine what you would do if your site was down for more than 2 days... Well, maybe it's not so hard to imagine for some of you with Jager still playing.

It's going to be a couple of weeks at least before the dust settle on this. Until then hang tight, listen, watch and make your plans.

[greeneagle]

These kind of major changes just do not need to occur right in prime season before Christmas, breaking many businesses and livelihoods without warning, real reason and time to react.

IMO - That is just flat "HEARTLESS" and without reason! - This has happened 2 years in a row now!!! Move it to the 1st quarter, instead of the 4th!

If Google Policy "Does No Evil" ... Prove it and move it!!! It just can't go on breaking companies and livelihoods without discernable reason at the most critical time of the year!!!

Ken

[aaron2005]

Yeah I here that Mr. greeneagle, thank God this is a hobby/learning thing for me, if I had to support my family with this up and down roller coaster ride it would be insane.

It's also funny that the 301/302 redirect thing is coming up now, 2 years ago when I didn't even know how to send email, I was extremely bothered about why Google was getting the godaddy 302 redirect all f'd up on my first website. I visited all the forums, contacted google and nobody was interested in the issue so after much search I found the answer. The site needed a 301 redirect, my host (Godaddy) refused to put it in place so I moved the site. After googlebot was pointed at WWW my fortune changed and the website got noticed.

I guess my point is that this stuff still can all get hosed with just a few changes in Google. In Matt's blog they have just started to discuss and look into "redirects" which makes me believe this whole thing is still in it's infancy. Google shouldn't have to invite spammers to parties to get to know how they manipulate them, they should hire a few who would like to grow the hell up and work for a cool company.

WMW? Isn't that the lame forum you have to pay to get into? It is a bit tempting but I refuse to pay to chat and blah blah blah about this stuff, in fact it's getting too painful and I might disappear for another year or two. How about you?

[s_clay]

Google, like any good business, is constantly trying to improve their product.

Are they supposed to just stop work for a quarter because it's going to change search results?

Are you kidding? For every site that goes down in flames, another rises to the top. Someone is always going to be unhappy. Unsound business models will fail.

No warning? LOL. Read your own posts Ken.

Heartless? Google is not a character Dickens novel, and pity Bob Cratchit if he bet Tiny Tim's future solely on the free organic returns that can be had in Google. Google is a business, with clear responsibilities to only one group, it's shareholders.

[greeneagle]

"No warning? LOL. Read your own posts Ken. "

As you know, I agree there were many warnings about certain issues...

But in any forum I visit no one anywhere can figure out what GOOGLE is doing in this update. Dramatic SERP falls as many have experienced, myself included with www.huntandhunt.com , just don't hold water.

That is the only Site we saw fall that dramatically.

The only difference from the others that I manage is:

1) Very few OBLs - The owner doesn't want to link to Sites outside his when not necessary - we slid just a few in.

2) Not listed in DMOZ - Most of the others are.. Been trying for over 2 years now.. Haven't resubmitted in over a year - no violations there

They are reciprocally linked to all my other clients too. They all express "Sitewide" IBLs to my Site and haven't taken a hit. I return the favor on a mature "Relevant" PR4 portfolio page - Not causing a problem anywhere else.

There is just no soluble deductive reasoning for the hit here... I am empathetic for the other Sites, business owners and webmasters suffering the same lack of communication from GOOGLE here.

You bet I am!

In a Marketing World - That kind of non-communication is just pretty much inexcusable!

We can speculate on entrenched and "relevancy" Factors for both IBLs and OBLS or divert to imaginary previous updates, but none of them hold the only key... The site I mentioned above has been in the top few for "laser machining Houston" and "perforating guns" since launch, over 2 years ago - never even a "sandbox" issue.....but they are gone now!!!

This same phenomenon has affected a large percentage of Sites this time in their prime marketing period just before Christmas), (not that it matters to my sites) and there seems to be absolutely no clue anywhere, why!

That - IS VERY POOR MARKETING!, by GOOGLE, at best!

I have tolerated their "irrelevant" alg BS since inception on this Site: www.dpwater.com for almost 2 years now too.

They just don't like the long pages and sub-menus at the top of several of the pages. I guess they think it is spam, but MSN and YAHOO lap it up like honey and beat them to the pulp, relentlessly.

But, visitors save it as a favorite all day long and it was recently exemplified at a major Independent Texas Water Supplier Site at an extremely important Regional Industry Convention.... so who really gives a rat's ass if GOOGLE sees it as a significant site?..

I surely don't!

Ken

[s_clay]

I think that Google does a much better job compared to MSN and Yahoo when communicating with the webmaster community, via Matt Cutts, GoogleGuy and the contact links they provide. Do the others even try? No. MSN Dude is probably too busy dodging chairs.

Read: http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ especially the 10/19/05 entry. Use the feedback links.

Again, this update is apparently still in the early stages. I've seen sites in my niche dissapear for months, then reappear, for no known reason. For all I know I could be next. Easilly.

I use sub menu's at the top of my pages along with side bar navigation menu's. Anchor text is keyword rich, but not spammy. You're right, MSN and Yahoo love it. Google... If not love, indulgence? It is interesting to play jester for three kings.

I also feel for the people that are suffering with this update, but do not think that the timing is a problem. Changes have been happening all along; perhaps people are just more sensitive to them at this time of year.

To say Google is not trying to communicate is not correct. Read Cutts blog, use the feedback links - especially if you can help with clearly documented examples of errors/problems.

[ADAM Web Design]

This is not directly related to the topic at hand, but since these two behaviours are Google-related and may be an effect of the update, I noticed them and felt it appropriate to share:

1) I recently created two articles for clients, both of which I published on my own website on Wednesday. While they were crawled on Thursday, they didn't show up in SERPs until Friday. They used to show up within 24 hours of my having published them on my site.

I'm not bitching about the extra 24 hours. What didn't make complete sense to me was the crawl taking place the day before the SERP listing, when it used to be on the same day. But again, it's not something I'm losing a great deal of sleep over.

2) I recently finished (other than SEO, which I'm starting this weekend) a site for company called Award Kitchen Refacers.

About the time of the update, my client called me excited because he'd already gotten #1 ranking in the term "Kitchen Refacers". Having not so much as lifted a finger to start promoting his site before it was ready (he had 0 IBLs at this point), I had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

Having looked a little further into it, I discovered the reason. I have two domains on my server with stopped sites belonging to former clients of mine (not stopped because of anything I did wrong with the sites, but for other confidential-type reasons.) Neither are redirecting to the new site and both have a "No website is configured at this address." message because they're stopped.

Google has indexed the Award Kitchen Refacers content under both of these domains and hasn't yet removed either from the index.

So...my thoughts are that it may not totally be a marketing error (although I do agree with Ken in that their customer service is rather lacking), but at least partly a technical error.