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Thread: Optimizing For MSN Search

  1. #1
    WebProWorld MVP Chris's Avatar
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    Optimizing For MSN Search

    Inevitably, with the launch of a new search engine, especially one the size of MSN Search, there is an outcry of people wanting to know how to improve their result position. Questions like “How do I optimize my site to rank well?” and “Does this engine base more relevance on in-bound links or on-page content?” are quite common.

    Anticipating this reaction, MSN Search did what most major search engines do: feature a number of help pages designed to assist site owners in these matters. MSN’s Site Owner Help pages have also stimulated an interesting conversation on WebProWorld. The point of contention was whether or not MSN Search encouraged W3C validation.

    Although their help pages did say validated HTML was required, they did say “Use only well-formed HTML code in your pages. Ensure that all tags are closed, and that all links function properly. If your site contains broken links, MSNBot may not be able to index your site effectively, and people may not be able to reach all of your pages.” Therefore, validated HTML will not hurt, and may actually help your ranking in MSN Search. This is also true with most, if not all, search engines.

    However, many still wonder what factors does MSN Search consider to determine relevance. Some think MSN gives weight to on-page content, which seems to be true. The MSN Search blog says another factor they consider is “the text of links that point to a page.” This supports a theory that Hardwood Guy had on WebmasterWorld: “Internal link text seems to be a key ingredient by the looks of the new MSN search.”

    This point is expanded even further by another blog entry made by MSN Search Program Manager, Eytan Seidman. Concerning link structure, Eytan offers these thoughts: “URL’s with many (definitely more than 5) query parameters have a very low chance of ever being crawled. Another thing to consider is whether we can find your page. If we need to traverse through eight pages on your site before finding leaf pages that nobody but yourself points to, MSNBot might choose not to go that far. This is why many people recommend creating a site map and we would as well.”

    SEOChat moderator Dazzlindonna had this logical approach to optimizing for MSN, “No, its not about Meta tags (I have some sites that have no Meta tags and rank well in it). No, it’s not just about content. No, it’s not just about links. Like all major search engines, its about a number of factors, with varying weight amongst those factors.”

    Donna’s all-in theory is probably a logical approach to MSN or any search engine. MSN supports her approach, saying, “The MSN Search ranking algorithm analyzes factors such as page contents, the number and quality of sites that link to your pages, and the relevance of your site’s content to keywords.” This method of ranking is not unique to MSN either. They deal with relevancy the way the majority of the search engines do: by weighing a number of contributing factors.

    Armed with this knowledge, there are still some questions that still linger about MSN Search and what they value. Some believe that MSN gives more weight to on-page content, much like Yahoo. This differs from the method that Google favors, which seems to give credence based on the amount of relevant links that point to a site.

    Randfish supports this point on SEOChat by saying, “My recent research into MSN suggests that much like Yahoo!, on-page content is 'slightly' more important than it is to Google. However, this may also be caused by the fact that Google's index is (larger than) MSN's, so they have fewer links to rely on in general.”

    If, in fact, MSN Search does favor on-page content, then ensuring your web text is keyword rich would only help. Of course, looking at past discussions concerning keywords, having them populate your text isn’t going to damage your ranking in any site, unless of course you overdo it. Pages that are seen as keyword-stuffed or existing only to promote certain keywords are considered spam and are punished appropriately.

    MSN also spells out what it considers to be unscrupulous SEO practices. To get yourself banned from their index, just perform any of these techniques:

    ·Loading pages with irrelevant words in an attempt to increase a page's keyword density. This includes stuffing ALT tags that users are unlikely to view.

    ·Using hidden text or links. You should use only text and links that are visible to users.

    ·Using techniques to artificially increase the number of links to your page, such as link farms.

    Again, these “rules” are in-line with the rest of the search engine industry. If you stick to guidelines mentioned throughout the article and don’t violate any of the practices listed above, your site should enjoy success within MSN’s index.
    Former WebProWorld Admin
    IntentionalFoul.com

  2. #2

    MSN

    I'm just glad MSN got rid of the featured listings. Even when I achieved the number 1 spot, users had to scroll past a total of 8 sponsored sites and featured sites before they even found me.

  3. #3

    MSN Search

    I've checked over search results for a number of my sites and the results for all of them have been great. One thing I like about MSN is that they update their listings quickly, and give good looks at newer websites. In most cases, I don't feel this is the case with Google, and especially Yahoo.

    Optimization for MSN seems to be practical since work for the most part. Here are a couple comments from what I've been able to pick up on based on my methods of optimization:

    1. Use alt text on your images...
    2. MSN gives more weight to your keywords and description tags than Google.
    3. Content is of more value than inbound links.
    4. Of course, the Title tag with keywords present.
    5. Keywords in the url seem to play a good part in rankings.

    A newer site launched that I have done is http://www.unitedvinyl.net

    You can review this for getting a feel for some of the methods that I use.

    On MSN when searching for vinyl bags, custom vinyl bags, stock vinyl bags, vinyl packaging.... I come up #1 or close to it. On Google, I'm no where to be found. Huge difference in results, and I think a lot has to do with link popularity with Google and the weight given on keywords in the url.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Deep13's Avatar
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    to be frank i have not done a single thing specially for MSN...

    its all common things which i do for the search engines..and i am on top positions (1-5) for few competitive keywords :D

    So according to me...nothing to do spcial for it..
    all search engines ask for few commmon things like

    keywords in title
    proper meta description and keyword tags
    incoming links

    Deep

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Excellent info, Chris. This rox! :-)

  6. #6
    WebProWorld MVP Peter (IMC)'s Avatar
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    It is my impression that MSN uses internal links mostly to determine what a page is about (as where google uses all links to determine topic) but uses external links to determine popularity (therefore no MSN bombing possible.)

    Determining what a page is about is an extremely important factor and the way to do it is more a subjective matter than an objective matter. Google seems to prefer to let the public (all back links) decide what a page is about and MSN seems to prefer to let the webmaster determine what a page is about (internal backlinks only).

    Which one is better? That just depends on who you ask I gues,... subjective matter. But I believe that Google still has the best logic. They rank according to what most people think of a page. Therefore Searchers will like the results. MSN will rank according to what the webmaster of a page thinks of a page. And obviously, Webmaster will like the results, but searchers maybe less.

    Oh,. and for very competitive phrases, you need links, links, links and links,.. both in Google and MSN!!!
    FREE SEO ! Really? YES! All you have to do is implement it!
    Follow me on Twitter PeterIMC

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    With regards to MSN Beta, I haven't done anything to optimize for it. In fact, I don't know how to optimize for it :)

    All of my sites are optimized for Google but they are getting good results from MSN Beta. Most are on first page results of competitive keyphrases.

    As they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

  8. #8
    Currently my site is number 1 on google and about 9 (depending on the day) on msn beta. Seems like I may need to do a little adjusting, but I'm not complaining!
    Visit the most comprehensive Las Vegas Real Estate, Summerlin Real Estate and Henderson Real Estate website online.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Your experiences seem to be different then mine. I have several top 5 rankings in Google, but many of them are no where to be found on MSN.

    MSN seems to be like an inconsistent version of Yahoo to me.

    I'm very frustrated. By the way, what do you think of alt text for link titles? Does it only help with images?

    Lee

  10. #10
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    1. I do agree with CRich that MSN seems to give importance to validation.
    2. Something may also relates to inclusion of your site in "Microsoft Small Business Directory"
    3. More content.
    4. Leesw, unlike google, MSN also gives importance to new site. So age doesent matters for them :(
    5. Though some of my site ranked at no.1 for highly competitive keywords, anyway its still in BETA stage and nothing is predictable.

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