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Thread: Toolbar Pagerank: Overhyped?

  1. #1
    Administrator mike's Avatar
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    Toolbar Pagerank: Overhyped?

    Last week, as Brittany tells us here, Google updated its Page Rank and backlinks. As I'm sure most of you know, every few weeks Google does a similar update and without fail -as sure as day follows night, the SEO community immediately starts humming with the excited chatter of their shiny new Toolbar Page Rank (henceforth TPR). When I see these updates and the ensuing furor that results from a little green bar moving 1/8th of an inch, four words come to mind: don't believe the hype.

    I submit for your discussion, a few issues concerning the nature of the beast:

    Such spectacle is made from moving up a point or down a point in the toolbar. However, what are the implications (practically speaking) of going from a 6 to a 7 or a 6 to a 5? The toolbar PR is not the 'real' Page Rank number for your site (that's an older link but you get the idea). After all, the basic ranking of 1 to 10 for a site wouldn't really be extremely meaningful when applied to a couple billion sites. Do a search on Google and you won't have to look long to find sites with a low (or none at all) TPR outranking sites with high TPR. So, what really, does that green bar mean to you?

    Here at WebProNews for example, we generally hold a 7. In the TPR update prior to this most recent one, we dropped to a 6. Guess what? We're a 7 again now. What changed? Nothing. How were we impacted in the month or so we sat with a 6? Not at all. Minor fluctuations in backlinks here and there (nothing significant) and absolutely no appreciable change to our traffic. Had the 7 gone to a 6, then a 5 and trended down, I'd be a bit more concerned but as long as the numbers that matter to me (referrals, traffic & links) are fine I see little cause for alarm.

    Then there are what I call the 'shifters'. Sites will sometimes get caught up in a turbulent toolbar limbo with their PR ranking bouncing all over the place from day to day and even hour to hour in some cases. There's no shortage of head scratching being done about what's happening with these guys. Synching datacenters? Gremlins? Theories abound. You can find discussions about shifters in most SEO forums; it's not an extremely rare phenomenon (here's one). What can these folks take away from their toolbar rank?

    Don't get me wrong; I'm not Google-bashing. I think 99% of the fuss and uproar surrounding the TPR are created and perpetuated by the people that use it far more than the folks at Google. I'm probably not alone in my opinion that it's as much a status symbol as anything. It's business now too; people buy and sell links from sites based on their TPR alone. As a result you're going to have people optimizing for the toolbar ranking as much as they are the search engine I suppose. If there's money to be made with a high TPR alone you can rest assured there will be plenty of folks looking to capitalize - and where does that leave it?

    Is the toolbar a means to an end for Google -the proverbial carrot on a stick? Is it just enough of a draw that people will agree to send Google more usage data in exchange for the piece of mind the toolbar brings (enabling our friends at Google to avoid any Alexa-like mishaps).

    Is the toolbar a legitimate tool for measuring your site against your keyword competition?

    Is it little more than a novelty item - something you have an offhand look at every now and again - as an indicator of Google doing 'something' when the bar moves?

    What do you think?

    I watch the bar. I admit it. Thing is, if I drop a number I'm not running around the building breaking the glass on the fire alarms. Then again, I don't have 5 or 6 'link partners' paying me link rental fees either. That example aside, I would tend to think the rank and file webmasters would be far better served focusing on keeping good relevant content on their pages and developing good link networks rather than losing sleep over losing that 1/8th inch on the Google toolbar.

  2. #2
    Senior Member achronister's Avatar
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    I agree completely. PR will go up naturally with good SEO, so IMO there isn't really any point in worrying about it.

  3. #3
    I think there are a few factors to getting ranked well: longevity with your site, high PR, and well-optimized index page and sub-pages, with lots of good, unique content, you will outrank most who try to muscle in.

    I do think you can take a brand-new site, get it page rank by linking to it from high PR sites and as long as it is well-built and has good seo principles it will start generating traffic pretty quickly. I also have observed that new pages that are added to high PR sites seem to get published in Google quick and rank well right from the start.
    Evan Weber, Director of Marketing
    DentalPlans.com, Inc.
    evan@dentalplans.com
    Dental Plans :: Jimi Hendrix

  4. #4
    Senior Member Gary Golden's Avatar
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    Google and Page rank

    To many sites put to much value in PR when they should pay attention to links, search engine saturation and the like, I have seen to many PR6 and PR7 sites that do not have as many links or as high of ranking on keywords that we do, personally I think the GOOGLE PR thing is a little flawed since some sites simply do not have any links and have a PR5, What is up with that!

    Concentrate on building a quality site that is properly optimized and the rest will happen.

    Good luck to all!
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  5. #5
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    pagerank

    I think the main reason for building websites is beause you like it and it gives pleasure and a high pagerank is just a reward of the work you have put into your websites.
    When google starts to dance, take her hands and dance along.
    Relationship between classes in the language C++.

  6. #6
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    Start a worldwide boycott against google

    Dear Friends,

    I know I live in a total dreamworld... however, my sincere opinion is that Google should be Boycotted worldwide. They have established a near monopoly.

    The worst part though, is that they have managed to make 80% of the SEO market go absolutelly bananas - as you can tell from this most fabulous website!

    On top of that, they almost subliminally "force" you to download their stupid GoogleBar... which, of course, sets itself up to search through none other than -- yep you guessed it -- Google!

    Our websites show up in the top 5 for almost all other search engines. But on Google... we are essentially non-existent and with a PR of 0 and 3 respectivelly. Try a search on MSN or YAHOO for "Document Imaging Miami" or "Document Imaging Weston" or even "Document Imaging Dade County" if you don't believe me.

    They are not the best looking websites, nor am I even a decent web designer. But we develop the best and most affordable Document Imaging solutions. Our PC Networks website has been around for 20 years hosted at the same facility so I don't believe longevity has anything to do with rankings.

    Google is making fools out of so many people, myself included. You are literally forced to establish backlinks artificially for no aparent reason other than to attempt to float a few notches higher.

    At least I admit that I was a fool to spend even as much as 10 minutes attempting to rise on Google. Frankly, I freekin' QUIT! I will spend that time instead on more productive marketing efforts with higher and quicker payback.

    Watching a stupid little green bar that STEALS 1/10th of my screen real estate and 1/10th of myday watching and worrying about is absolutelly ridiculous.

    So to the rest of you... enjoy watching the stupid little green bar if you wish... GoogleBar is OFF my computer as of NOW! Oh, and Google is NOT a search option for me anymore either. There are more than enough good search engines out there to deal with such a corrupt and stealthy bunch of people.

    Please forgive my tone. I don't mean to insult anybody. But I am very angry at how they have manipulated all of us for as long as they have.

    On the other hand... I would like to thank ALL OF YOU WebProWorld posters for all of your sincere, unselfish help and guidance to all the rest of us.

    You have provided me and so many others with fantastic and most useful comments, suggestions and ideas. I hope I will be able to contribute to this community as I learn more.

    Sincerely,
    Jacob

  7. #7
    Senior Member greeneagle's Avatar
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    achronister:
    "I agree completely. PR will go up naturally with good SEO, so IMO there isn't really any point in worrying about it."
    ----
    Well put, successful people (including webmasters) spend 20% of their time working on 80% of their primary business issues and 80% of their time on WPW trying to validate their level of acumen, right?

    LMAO - Ken
    Mountain Eagle Marketing
    Contemporary Art News
    Modern Art News

  8. #8
    Senior Member achronister's Avatar
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    LOL....That sounds about right. Maybe everyone waits for the PR bar to go up so they can tell the boss everything is going as planned....

    JacobRusso - What if you were on top of google and nowhere else? Would the other engines then be evil? 80% of the general consumer likes it, so I'd give that the definition of capitalism.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Will.Spencer's Avatar
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    Re: Start a worldwide boycott against google

    Quote Originally Posted by JacobRusso
    On top of that, they almost subliminally "force" you to download their stupid GoogleBar... which, of course, sets itself up to search through none other than -- yep you guessed it -- Google!
    Jacob:

    There are many ways to see PR wthout downloading and installing the Google Toolbar.

    Quoting from How do I find the PR (Page Rank) for my site?:

    A great way to see the PR (Page Rank) of multiple pages, and without installing the Google toolbar, is to use the Google Page Rank Report at Top25Web.com.

    The Prog and Think Bling search engines display Google results, but also display the PR of each search result.

    An excellent tool for tracking PR and SERPS over a long period of time is the DigitalPoint Keyword Tracker.

    The Future PR lookup tool will check PR on most of the Google datacenters, in an attempt to determine the future PR of a page during
    a Google dance.

    Other tools to check Google Page Rank include Google Ranking Report and PageRank Checker.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Will.Spencer's Avatar
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    Re: Start a worldwide boycott against google

    Quote Originally Posted by JacobRusso
    Our PC Networks website has been around for 20 years hosted at the same facility so I don't believe longevity has anything to do with rankings.
    That's a neat trick, since line mode browser 1.1 was released on 15 January, 1992. ;-)

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