In regards to the plural keywords discussion, use our site as an example. help :)

[BDahlin]

We've been trying to figure this out for our website.
[stateKey1Key2].com

Targeting the plural keywords, "Utah Havanese Puppies" "Havanese Puppies Utah" "Havanese puppies in utah"
We now rank #1 for our target market of Utah and a few surrounding states.

We now are trying to focus more on the whole, just "Havanese Puppies". To target the market nationally.
With ranking so high with our Utah keywords, why do those same keywords not count towards our new goal. (-Utah)
Do they rank differently with Utah connected to them? How do plural keywords and Search Engines work together?

Suggestions for us?

Thanks all!

[claybutler]

You're confusing two different terms. "Havanese Puppies Utah" really has no relationship with "Havanese Puppies"

It would be like saying. "My name is Bob and everyone knows me in my small town or 125 people, how come nobody knows me in New York or Paris?"

The answer is because in a small town Bob is the only guy named Bob and everyone knows who he is. However, nationally there are hundreds of thousands of Bob's.

You situation is the same. The term "Utah" completely changes the conditions by eliminating all the other states. So the pool of matches is much lower. Remove "Utah" and now you are competing with every online entry of the term "Havanese Puppies" including Wikipedia, dog breeding sites and forums, and everyone in the world who's ever mentioned they like or own a Havanese Puppies.

So for Bob to get known in New York he's going to have to become famous. Fame on the web is measured in links. You need a lot of links pointing to you using the term "Havanese Puppies". The plural is not really the issue. Google can deal with those issues really well.

[alphaomega]

That's a very comprehensive explanation Claybutler. Very well illustrated. Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of it that way.

[snakeman]

We have similar issues. For the search "reptile party" our website http://www.reptileparty.com.au wins on google australia. However when you add the search term "Victoria" to the equation, another company's site comes out on top. I assume they have more backlinks using the term "Victoria" as anchor text. If anyone has any other posible explanation, let me know.
Thanks

[claybutler]

We have similar issues. For the search "reptile party" our website http://www.reptileparty.com.au wins on google australia. However when you add the search term "Victoria" to the equation, another company's site comes out on top. I assume they have more backlinks using the term "Victoria" as anchor text. If anyone has any other posible explanation, let me know.
Thanks

Your guess is probably right. Your situation is a good one though. It's easier to have a site that ranks high for a non-geo targeted term and then tweak it have it rank higher for a geo-targeted term then the reverse. This is because the longer the tail, the smaller the niche, and the easier to dominate that niche.

You also have an exact keyword match with your domain which certainly works in your favor.

[snakeman]

Thanks for the feedback. In a related matter, we had an issue with a trademark bootlegger with SEO for the trademark (snakeman) and I thought I had more backlinks than him and so on and with an exact matchdomain thought I'd easily usurp him in SERP. Turned out he had (unknown to me) 830 youtube videos, each video info page being a backlink to his site and as a result he was way over me in SERP. That's why I asked if there are any other potential SEO factors I am unaware of besides "on page" and good quality backlinks.
All the best

[claybutler]

Thanks for the feedback. In a related matter, we had an issue with a trademark bootlegger with SEO for the trademark (snakeman) and I thought I had more backlinks than him and so on and with an exact matchdomain thought I'd easily usurp him in SERP. Turned out he had (unknown to me) 830 youtube videos, each video info page being a backlink to his site and as a result he was way over me in SERP. That's why I asked if there are any other potential SEO factors I am unaware of besides "on page" and good quality backlinks.
All the best

Well, YouTube videos are backlinks. I consider anything off page linking to you a link. Whether it be a Facebook like, a blog comment, a wiki post, a Youtube video, a Stumble, etc. So conceptually you're right on track. There are only two factors - on page and off page (ie:links)

[BDahlin]

Hey ClayButler, couple questions.

You said this: "Well, YouTube videos are backlinks. I consider anything off page linking to you a link. Whether it be a Facebook like, a blog comment, a wiki post, a Youtube video, a Stumble, etc. So conceptually you're right on track. There are only two factors - on page and off page."

Youtube video link, as in a link within the video or in the description? Because arnt all youtube links nofollow?

Facebook like link, I have a like button on our homepage, it points to our business facebook page, would it be better for SEO is that like directly pointed to my URL instead? is that possible?


Also this line confused me:
"You need a lot of links pointing to you using the term "Havanese Puppies". The plural is not really the issue."

I'm confused by what the "plural" is that is being talked about? Plural number of keywords or plural Puppy/Puppies?

Thanks Clay

[claybutler]

Hey ClayButler, couple questions.

You said this: "Well, YouTube videos are backlinks. I consider anything off page linking to you a link. Whether it be a Facebook like, a blog comment, a wiki post, a Youtube video, a Stumble, etc. So conceptually you're right on track. There are only two factors - on page and off page."

Youtube video link, as in a link within the video or in the description? Because arnt all youtube links nofollow?

Facebook like link, I have a like button on our homepage, it points to our business facebook page, would it be better for SEO is that like directly pointed to my URL instead? is that possible?


Also this line confused me:
"You need a lot of links pointing to you using the term "Havanese Puppies". The plural is not really the issue."

I'm confused by what the "plural" is that is being talked about? Plural number of keywords or plural Puppy/Puppies?

Thanks Clay

Well all social media links are no follow by default but that doesn't mean they don't count. Keep in mind that "nofollow" attribute was invented by Google. It has no meaning other than what they decide it means. No follow links do count, especially from social media sites that are by default "nofollow". I've seen this effect first hand when a post I did was heavily linked to by facebook users using a keyword that wasn't in the post. After a couple weeks it shot to top 5 position for this phrase when previously it was below position 100.

As for plurals I thought you meant like "puppy" versus "puppies". If you're referring to puppy AND puppies then that would be called using multiple instances or versions of a keyword.

A youtube video can have links embedded in it or in the description.

The facebook like button shouldn't really point anywhere. It's a piece of javascript that allows a user to easily "like" your page. When they like it, that "like" appears on their wall with a hyperlink pointing to the page on which the like button was embedded.

If yours doesn't work that way then it isn't a "like" button and probably just a normal hyperlinked graphic icon.

[BDahlin]

Our like button is a like button for our business page on facebook. Rather than for our URL...
I didnt know it was possible to make it for the URL as I thought the Like "matrix" could only be used to Like a facebook page? Is that wrong?

You can see it here: UtahHavanesePuppies.com