FreeLance Question - Site credits or Not?

[SteveGerencser]

I don't know about that so much. I'm slowly changing my opinion on this. We commissioned a hand made set of bedroom furniture and the carpenter/craftsman had no problem putting his name in some out of the way place on every piece. He never asked. I'm pretty sure every photographer and painter I know does the same with what they create for clients.

[deepsand]

Yes, a lot of that does happen, owing to a lack of knowledge of the Law on both sides, along with some who commission such works liking to be able to proudly show it as being such. In general, I'd say that most buyers of physical goods simply don't care.

In the case of your bedroom furniture, it probably depends on the degree to which is was a unique design, as opposed to modifications of a stock design so as to accommodate physical requirements.

For professional photographers, those in the know have their clients assign all rights to them as part of a boilerplate contract. This, of course, can lead to some very contentious situations, such as are frequently the case for wedding portfolios.

Where the issue generally is of the greatest concern lies in Patents and Copyrights, the the respective Statutory Law is firmly rooted English Common Law.

IMO, better to clear the decks up front than to risk unfavorable eventualities later on.

[janeth]

Yes, a lot of that does happen, owing to a lack of knowledge of the Law on both sides, along with some who commission such works liking to be able to proudly show it as being such. In general, I'd say that most buyers of physical goods simply don't care.

So why do you?

In the case of your bedroom furniture, it probably depends on the degree to which is was a unique design, as opposed to modifications of a stock design so as to accommodate physical requirements.

100% custom. The company had never done anything like it before but have continued to sale the same design since making mine. But I don't care, as a matter of fact I am happy the guy was able to sell more products. I want him to stay in business because he is awesome and I want to use him once I get back on my feet for more stuff.

For professional photographers, those in the know have their clients assign all rights to them as part of a boilerplate contract. This, of course, can lead to some very contentious situations, such as are frequently the case for wedding portfolios.

lol, I would just hire someone else. All my photos have the guys logo in the problem and I do not have a problem with that asking me to sign all my rights over would be a problem.

Where the issue generally is of the greatest concern lies in Patents and Copyrights, the the respective Statutory Law is firmly rooted English Common Law.

IMO, better to clear the decks up front than to risk unfavorable eventualities later on.

Yes like you said. It's a practice that makes money and goes back before my time. I will not be clearing any decks unless my clients as me too. Most my clients ask me to put my logo on the bottom and very few have asked me to remove it.

[C0ldf1re]

... Where the issue generally is of the greatest concern lies in Patents and Copyrights, the the respective Statutory Law is firmly rooted English Common Law...

Do not assume that the law is simple regarding software copyright and the ownership of intellectual property. Just because one party has paid for the work, does not conclusively prove that the said party owns the copyright. There are several rather large and turgid textbooks on the subject of intellectual property under English law, and I've read some of them. The law has several general principles, and a host of exceptions and special cases.

[HTMLBasicTutor]

What does all this yacking lately have to do with the orginal question?

A person asks for a site to be designed and/or produced.

A proper web design business will draw up a contract stating what is and is not included in the price (after discussion with the potential client). They may or may not include for example, the original artwork files, programming (i.e. retain the copyright/ownership) in the price and/or state other things like including a link back to their site.

An informed consumer will:
a) Research what should and should not be included.
b) State in their request for quotation specific things they want. e.g. the original artwork files and be able to do as they please with said files.
c) Read the contract they are to sign. Either sign it as is, ask for some agreeable revisions or walk away.

If you are the person contracting anything, be it online or offline, you should do your research first and read what you are signing. Assume nothing. Ask questions.

The whole link back to the desiger's site issue is between the owner of the site and the designer. It has to do with what was agreed to in the contract.

Now, doing sneeky stuff like hiding stuff in the files is a whole other issue.

[C0ldf1re]

...
An informed consumer will:
a) Research what should and should not be included.
b) State in their request for quotation specific things they want. e.g. the original artwork files and be able to do as they please with said files.
c) Read the contract they are to sign. Either sign it as is, ask for some agreeable revisions or walk away...

In real life, such "informed consumers" are pretty rare! Consumers generally hire experts to do work that the consumers do not really understand. They then rely on the experts to do a proper professional job.

Is a link-back from the customer site to the web designer's site "professional"? I would say, "Yes!" It is a common trade practice that is mutually beneficial.

The web designer benefits from the free advertising. Bear in mind that many businesses thoroughly analyze their competitors' websites. If they see a competitor with a brilliant website, they might hire the designer to do their site too. There is also the benefit of a backlink for serps.

The customer benefits from telling the world that they are so substantial that they can hire a proper web designer. They know that if the web designer is "signing" his work in public, that is an extra incentive to do a really good job. And the customer has the web designer's details immediately to hand if there is any problem on the site.

Is the web designer "entitled" to this backlink? It is really an empty question. It would be a very unusual customer who wanted the link removed. But, if the customer wants the link removed, it would be a very foolish designer who argued the point.

[HTMLBasicTutor]

In real life, such "informed consumers" are pretty rare! Consumers generally hire experts to do work that the consumers do not really understand. They then rely on the experts to do a proper professional job.

Yes they are.

Not talking about an expert with the intimate details (or they would do it themselves). But study enough to ask the right questions and know what to look for in the quotation.

People get duped all the time on and off-line because they don't do their homework and/or don't read the contract or fine print. e.g. It has been said people spend more time "shopping" for their next electronic or car than they do for their house insurance.

[deepsand]

Do not assume that the law is simple regarding software copyright and the ownership of intellectual property. Just because one party has paid for the work, does not conclusively prove that the said party owns the copyright. There are several rather large and turgid textbooks on the subject of intellectual property under English law, and I've read some of them. The law has several general principles, and a host of exceptions and special cases.

Having myself formally studied Patent, Copyright & Trademark Law, I concur that it is neither simple nor uniform; I was simply noting the general principle as it holds in the US.

... if the customer wants the link removed, it would be a very foolish designer who argued the point.

Spot on.

[Theodore Ross]

i would definitely agree with you guys with this one. lucki9ly though, i have yet to encounter a client who would want to remove my credits from their pages. they think of that as a badge or something.

[C0ldf1re]

... i have yet to encounter a client who would want to remove my credits from their pages. they think of that as a badge or something.

For websites, the badge seems to fit. But I did hear of one landscaper who tried to put little notices in his clients' gardens, "Landscaping by XYZ". The clients were generally not happy!