So, Microsoft is going to end support to Windows XP SP2? [Archive]

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Doc

12-18-2009, 01:23 PM

Uncle Dog

12-18-2009, 04:15 PM

Thanks for the heeds up Docker. I chained to SP3 and haven ten counted an Ypre blooms sofa.

Seriously. They should be withdrawing Vista and making sure 7's stable before they start giving up on XP. Like a lot of WPWers I run several machines with a variety of OS's, I've only just dropped an Me machine (stable for a couple of years). I didn't hear many complaints when Me support ended, it was never popular. XP is widely regarded as the Vista upgrade: you got a new machine with Vista on, get pissed off with the 'are you sure you wanna' so XP'd it and suddenly you had a lightning fast and reliable PC.

ian0031

12-22-2009, 04:56 AM

Doc, thanks for this update. I wonder why Microsoft will end up its support to the XP SP2 OS. In fact they must first pull out their support for all the Vista OS because we all know how Vista works compare to XP, XP is still the best and rely by most computer user.

Doc

12-22-2009, 10:50 AM

Don't thank me, guys... thank the WPW newsletter. ;)

alphaomega

12-23-2009, 10:40 AM

I knew this long now. Originally the support should have stopped by now. Only an uproar from OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturer) moved Microsoft to prolong the support. Make no mistake, they will stop it. Windows 2000 was an excellent OS in its time, but to push Windows XP, they dropped all support quick. Microsoft is about making money. If they support OS for too long they sell no new one. Use Windows 7. I use it now for over a year and is good. All newer hardware is supported (drivers) and you find features which are very useful. Not trying to sell Microsoft's products, but there are only few alternatives. Actually really only one. Mac. The new 64 bit OS Snow Leopard is work of art. Runs very fast and will run 32 bit software with no problems. Linux is not an option for web design yet. Software available is too amateurish.

deepsand

12-23-2009, 05:45 PM

Unlike SP2, I've encountered no problems with SP3.

The only quirk that I'm aware of is that, if you have IE7 or IE8 installed on SP2, and you want to maintain the ability to revert to IE6, you'll need to first roll-back to IE6, install SP3, and then re-install IE7/8.

Clint1

12-24-2009, 01:17 AM

An excerpt of a piece by Bryan Scheiber, from today's Worldstart newsletter

Q:
So, Microsoft is going to end support to Windows XP SP2? What does that mean?

A:
Earlier in the week, my news article mentioned that Microsoft would be ending support for Microsoft XP SP2 in July 2010. Before the day was over, my inbox was stuffed with emails from readers worried about what would happen to their computer: Will my computer stop working? Will I continue receive security updates? Should I upgrade to Windows XP SP3? What does "end all public support" truly mean?

(keep reading...)Windows XP SP2 Support to End? - WorldStart Computer Tips and Computer Help (http://www.worldstart.com/tips/tips.php/windows-xp-sp2-support)

I am still running SP2, having decided against the upgrade to SP3, because of problems encountered by others. I may reconsider that...

or not. ;)

It's 2014 for XP, but not necessarily for SP3. I had this saved from months ago, the first URL is (no surprise) no longer valid, but the 2nd one is valid.

"Support ends 24 months after the next service pack releases or at the end of the product's support lifecycle, whichever comes first. For more information, please see the service pack policy at Please Verify your Location (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/#ServicePackSupport) "

Wow that's a long time, 2014. There may be more SP's out between now and then, but "current rumor" is SP3 is the last. But the bottom line is 2014 for XP which is good news for XP users. Microsoft Support Lifecycle (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-gb&x=16&y=12&C2=1173)

I too was one of the many that had disastrous results with SP3 (spontaneous infinite reboot loop, wouldn't start). I got to do a bit of work with an M$ employee on the patch for that. It mostly affected AMD platform users, but I'm on a P4 and I had it. After we narrowed down the cause with a lot of input from a lot of others, it was fixed and I haven't had any problems with it since.

The other major issue that I believe actually affected more users, was the net connection disappearing, which if I recall seemed to affect those that used Norton. (Been about two years ago).

Like I always say, I'm flabbergasted at how these people unleash (obviously untested) software AND patches onto the public. And It's not just M$ & OS's, they all do it.

If you want to install it, just be sure you opt for the uninstall option. And if you happen to be one of the ones with the reboot loop, you can PM me and I can find the info on how to remove it from DOS. But I would think that "should" have been permanently fixed by now. Just be sure if you download it, it's b5512. Unfortunately the only way to know that is to download it, unpack it, and search the folder with the option: "A word or phrase in the file...", and if a bunch of .inf files show up, that's it.

The biggest functionality change in SP3, is a huge one, at least for those that use the address bar on the Desktop toolbar.....it's gone!!!! Yep, M$ decided they'd remove it. They claimed some "legal reason". I was never going to install it because that address bar (I have mine below the Quick Launch toolbar) is how you get to websites! You simply type in your URL, and you're there. But I found a hack for it to get it back, and only then I did install SP3 once I knew I'd still have the address bar. (There's a program that gets it back, but it has to be running all the time and the bar is not as it was before. There's also a hack that puts it back exactly the way it was previously). So if you use that toolbar and want to install SP3, I can tell you how to get it back.

Doc

12-24-2009, 01:46 AM

Clint1

12-24-2009, 02:16 AM

Interesting, Clint. I'm still on SP2, and guardedly debating with myself as to whether or not I want to take the leap again. My first experience with SP3 was a friggin' nightmare, which I don't care to repeat. I lost a lot of files, having to reformat my drive, before I got it cleaned up again.
:shock: Oh my, how exactly did that happen?? Did you have that reboot loop?

Aside from the more involved HD image programs, there's something called ERUNT (http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/) that's awesome. It's saves my butt on a regular basis. It's "similar" to XP's Restore, except that it: always works, is really fast, backs up ALL of the critical things you need, (the Registry, and 'security', 'software', 'system', sam files, and more), can be restored from DOS, and it can automatically create a backup every day when your PC starts. It does that instantly in the background and you never know it happened. There's command line switch you add to its shortcut in the Start Up folder to save X days of backups: "C:\Program Files\ERUNT\AUTOBACK.EXE" %SystemRoot%\ERDNT\AutoBackup\#Date# /noconfirmdelete /noprogresswindow /days:8 , which in that case will save 8 days worth and automatically delete the older ones. And, it's free.

You can have the backups saved to any location.

You can disable XP's Native restore after installing it. I click its icon I have on my QL toolbar before I install anything. For that the backups can be saved in the default location, or any other folder or HD you want.

Clint1

12-24-2009, 02:26 AM

Hey I just noticed something, congrats to Deepsand and Doc, the newest in the rep rank 10 club.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa12/sharewhat2/Emoticons/zizaru_9.gif http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa12/sharewhat2/Emoticons/bravo.gif

(An elite group of only 3 I believe, Kgun being the other). http://www.ashokforums.com/forums/images/smilies/77.gif ........ :lol:

BluePlanet

12-24-2009, 05:40 AM

I run Windows 2000 Advanced Server on an HP box that has 4 dual core Xeon processors with 16 gigs of memory. It is the only operating system that will support that box without spending a big fortune on Enterprise Server 2008 or something like that.

Anyway, I still get security updates for the OS and other things, plus updates for Office XP and other things I have on it. I don't think MS will give me any telephone or email support, but there are still security and other updates for it. I have all the OS book sets so really don't need any real support from MS. Just hope the security updates and stuff keep coming. This was at the time their top of the line server OS and was $3k.

I am running older software on this box but if you want to run newer software that needs specific features, like recent versions of .NET, they don't bother making newer versions compatible with older operating systems. Then to upgrade your software, you need to move to a more recent operating system.

simmo

12-24-2009, 07:27 AM

Has the process already started?

I recently wanted to upgrade my daughter's XP SP1 machine, which had just been returned from her college, so I went to the Microsoft Site:-

Download details: Windows XP Service Pack 2 for IT Professionals and Developers (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en#Instructions)

And clicked on the "Order the CD" bitton. I was directed to the Microsoft SP3 upgrade page but then found that it could only be sent to some very remote countries. The USA and Western Europe does not get a look-in. Have I missed something?

Clint1

12-24-2009, 08:26 AM

Has the process already started?
What process?

I recently wanted to upgrade my daughter's XP SP1 machine, which had just been returned from her college, so I went to the Microsoft Site:-

Download details: Windows XP Service Pack 2 for IT Professionals and Developers (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en#Instructions)

And clicked on the "Order the CD" bitton. I was directed to the Microsoft SP3 upgrade page but then found that it could only be sent to some very remote countries. The USA and Western Europe does not get a look-in. Have I missed something?
Just click the "Download" button and download it. ;)

Clint1

12-24-2009, 08:37 AM

Doc

12-24-2009, 11:33 AM

I have heard of ERUNT, but haven't tried it. Sounds good, so I'll take a look at it.

I never really found out exactly what happened, Clint. The first indication of trouble was when I tried to open Windows Explorer, after upgrading to SP3. My system locked up, and when I was forced to do a hard reboot, Windows Explorer was nowhere to be found. Since I use it extensively, I was forced to use My Computer, instead, in order to do a file search. That locked up my system again, and at first I though my BIOS were hosed, because it wouldn't complete a boot. But when I tried my boot disk, it came up fine. I finally ended up having to save the files I could (about 12GB were trashed!), reformat, and reinstall XP Pro, SP1, and upgrade to SP2. After all that fun and frolic, I did a bit more investigation to see what I was really missing by not having SP3, and found it was pretty much all superfluous garbage.

MS could never tell me what might have happened, but I'm inclined to suspect that something in SP3 was incompatible with something I had already added to my system before downloading it. While I have heard of some people having SP3 problems, I think there are many more that didn't.

If only to continue to receive security bulletins, I may decide to install SP3 again. But you can bet I'll have a complete external backup before I do so! :-?

deepsand

12-24-2009, 02:26 PM

I forgot to mention that (if you stay on SP2), if it's updates you're concerned about, you can still download them manually (that's the best way anyway), and subscribe to Secunia (http://secunia.com/advisories/secunia_security_advisories/) and get their alerts about patches/updates. I think that's the page where you subscribe. There's probably other free services like that too. Go to the detailed M$ IT Pro/"Security Bulletin" pages and read about them to see if you even need them. Most of them I never install. That info is usually under: Vulnerability Information > [exploit name] > Mitigating Factors.......
However, once support for SP2 ends, there will be no updates designated for it; and, therefore, nothing to download.

Secunia will simply note that SP2 has reached end-of-life, advising that one update to SP3.

deepsand

12-26-2009, 11:13 PM

Doc

12-26-2009, 11:29 PM

As an adjucnt to MS Update and/or Secunia, one can, on demand, scan a machine for missing security patches, updates, etal., including those sometimes missed by MS Update, by using MS Baseline Security Analyzer (MBSA.)

MBSA can be downloaded at Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 2.1.1 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=b1e76bbe-71df-41e8-8b52-c871d012ba78&displaylang=en)

MBSA is a great tool. I don't know what they base their algorithms on, though. If they're periodically updating their system by integrating vulnerabilities garnered from MS, their ability to evaluate your system's security may be rendered ineffectual when MS ceases to offer any input. If they're getting their info elsewhere, it may be a different story. I would imagine it's probably a mix of the two. Both will eventually dry up, though.

I think a lot depends upon Win 7's success and acceptance. At this point, 7 seems to be doing well, and is being well received. Those that use XP will continue to do so, until either forced to go to Win 7, or when they're comfortable making the change. I suspect that comfort will be forthcoming, and we're already seeing part of the "force".

We've seen it before, with new MS offerings, and we'll probably see it again, down the road. ;)

deepsand

12-27-2009, 12:10 AM

MBSA is a great tool. I don't know what they base their algorithms on, though. If they're periodically updating their system by integrating vulnerabilities garnered from MS, their ability to evaluate your system's security may be rendered ineffectual when MS ceases to offer any input. If they're getting their info elsewhere, it may be a different story. I would imagine it's probably a mix of the two. Both will eventually dry up, though.
Yes, eventually OS updates for unsupported OSes will dry up; however, MBSA does and will continue to scan for problems re. MS Applications, even though they're running on an unsupported OS.

As for the base against which a given installation is compared :

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Security updates check

Scanning computers for security updates uses Microsoft Update and WSUS technologies. MBSA provides integration unmanaged clients that use Microsoft Update and clients managed by WSUS, SMS or SCCM administrators and is a comprehensive standalone tool for the information technology professional. MBSA uses a catalog that is updated by Microsoft every time new security updates are released. This catalog is used to check the status of security updates on the computers being scanned. If any security updates in the catalog are not installed on the scanned computer, MBSA flags these updates in the security report. MBSA scans for missing security updates for the products published to the Microsoft Update site only. For information regarding products not supported by Microsoft Update and WSUS server, see the MBSA home page (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=16534).

Note: For products that are not installed on a scanned computer, the security updates check is not performed for those products and is not listed in the Security Update Scan Results table in the report.

Note: For products that are not supported by Microsoft Update, no security update check will be performed. Since MBSA will not report missing security updates for products not supported by Microsoft Update, it is critical to determine whether all products in the scanned environment are supported by Microsoft Update and WSUS technologies. For information regarding products not supported by Microsoft Update and WSUS technologies, see the MBSA home page (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=16534).

Configure computers for Microsoft Update and scanning prerequisites

This option is off by default in MBSA 2.1. When enabled, this option allows MBSA to automatically install or update the Windows Update Agent on each target client to the WUA version needed for a security update scan to be successful. Windows Installer is also required for scanning certain products and the scan will report whether Windows Installer needs to be updated or other prerequisites for performing a successful scan are missing. Computers with an Internet connection with Automatic Updates enabled are updated automatically. Target clients that do not meet the requirements for a successful scan cannot be scanned for updates without the correct version of these needed WUA client components. Keeping this option in its default state (not selected) ensures that the scanning process does not alter the target computer configuration, but could result in some computers or products not being scanned.

If the computer is managed by a WSUS server, using this option does not interfere with managed updates or settings. Computers that have Automatic Updates turned off continue to be turned off. Computers that have Automatic Updates turned on may begin to receive Automatic Updates reminders if this option is used unless the client is assigned to a WSUS server. Administrators that have configured the Automatic Updates service to be disabled should first ensure the Automatic Updates setting is turned off before using this option if they are using another update management solution.

Computers that are not managed by Update Services may receive Automatic Updates reminders for the additional content published to Microsoft Update depending upon how Automatic Updates has been configured. These additional items may include updates for Microsoft Office or SQL Server, for example.

These features can be controlled separately when scanning from the command line.

By default, scanning uses Microsoft Update and the client's WSUS server if it is assigned one. Using advanced Update Services options, you can perform a security update check that uses only the list of approved updates from your local WSUS server, or ignore that list and scan using only Microsoft Update. By default, items not in the list of approved updates on the assigned WSUS server are given only an informational score.

Advanced Update Services options:

Scan using assigned Update Services servers only
Use this option in managed WSUS server environments. With this option selected, clients that are not assigned to a WSUS server will receive an error message in the report indicating they could not be scanned. This option allows a WSUS server administrator a way to ensure that only managed computers are included, and as a result, only approved updates are included and graded in the reports.

Scan using Microsoft Update only
Use this option if you want to ignore the list of approved updates on computers that are assigned a WSUS server. This option causes all updates to be graded using critical or noncritical warnings instead of the informational score used for unapproved WSUS updates. For performance reasons, the use of the Microsoft Update site is attempted initially, and if it cannot be accessed, scanning uses an offline catalog that may consume additional network bandwidth. If the computer has already been configured to use the Microsoft Update site, additional changes are not needed during a scan. If the computer is managed by a WSUS server administrator, using this option does not change or interfere with the WSUS managed updates or Automatic Updates client settings.

Clint1

12-27-2009, 10:51 PM

However, once support for SP2 ends, there will be no updates designated for it; and, therefore, nothing to download.

Secunia will simply note that SP2 has reached end-of-life, advising that one update to SP3.
True, but someone can look at the SP3 updates and figure out if they'd also be for SP2. Generally they should be, unless of course they are for some SP3-only-added component.

deepsand

12-27-2009, 11:10 PM

True, but someone can look at the SP3 updates and figure out if they'd also be for SP2.
Secunia will not display any SP3 updates unless SP3 is already installed!

Generally they should be, unless of course they are for some SP3-only-added component.
Assuming that Windows Installer would even allow it, there's no guarantee that identically named components from 2 different SPs have identical code, with the result that an SP3 patch might clobber SP2.

Clint1

12-28-2009, 12:16 AM

Secunia will not display any SP3 updates unless SP3 is already installed!
:confused: I don't know about that, I was only talking about subscribing to their emails. If I were on SP2, I'd still do what I do now; look at the emails, go to the M$ page and read about it to see if I need it......

Assuming that Windows Installer would even allow it, there's no guarantee that identically named components from 2 different SPs have identical code, with the result that an SP3 patch might clobber SP2.
Yeah that could be a problem. When trying to install one it may say something like "this patch is only intended for SP3" or "SP3 must be installed to use this patch", etc.

But, I don't think that would be a problem unless M$ purposely codes that "nag" into patches after SP2 is no longer supported. Take this line from a random Secunia email I had saved:

Windows XP SP2/SP3 with Internet Explorer 6:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=af9a6cb0-725d-490c-9858-16ec40e98560

My thinking is there's no reason for patches like that to change. But the problem is not all are like that (I just checked and some say they are only for SP2 and some say they are only for SP3), so in the end it would indeed be a bit risky to try and figure out which patches could be used for SP2.

All I could recommend for anyone that would want to stay on SP2 is to download all the patches you can up till support ends and save them. Maybe by then there will be a website or some kind of a "tool" that could tell you which patches you could install for SP2 only.

deepsand

12-28-2009, 04:40 PM

:confused: I don't know about that,
The Secunia apps do not report OS patches individually, but only that the OS :

Has one or more patches available, directing one to MS Update; or,
The OS has reached end-of-life, with no more updates to be available.

Yeah that could be a problem. When trying to install one it may say something like "this patch is only intended for SP3" or "SP3 must be installed to use this patch", etc.
The more likely and best scenario would be for Windows Installer to simply display the standard notice that the product you are attempting to update is not installed, and end.

But, I don't think that would be a problem unless M$ purposely codes that "nag" into patches after SP2 is no longer supported. Take this line from a random Secunia email I had saved:

Windows XP SP2/SP3 with Internet Explorer 6:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=af9a6cb0-725d-490c-9858-16ec40e98560

My thinking is there's no reason for patches like that to change.
Given that IE is an optional component external to the OS, it is not unusual for patches for it to be SP agnostic; and, there is no reason to expect that to change after support for SP2 is discontinued.

But the problem is not all are like that (I just checked and some say they are only for SP2 and some say they are only for SP3), so in the end it would indeed be a bit risky to try and figure out which patches could be used for SP2.
Well, if Windows Installer handles such gracefully, as above noted, there should be no risk. But, I can't say for certain if this is the case.

Anyone want to test this?

Clint1

12-29-2009, 03:18 AM

Given that IE is an optional component external to the OS, it is not unusual for patches for it to be SP agnostic; and, there is no reason to expect that to change after support for SP2 is discontinued.
I don't think IE would actually be called "optional" since I don't know of anyway to install Windows without installing IE, it's part of the "shell".

Well, if Windows Installer handles such gracefully, as above noted, there should be no risk. But, I can't say for certain if this is the case.

Anyone want to test this?
I don't know about "gracefully", LoL. I have tried to install SP2 patches and I got the pop-up with something about the patch "not being needed" or "is only for SP2".

I unpacked two of the most recent updates I saved. One was 973904 for Wordpad (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms09-073.mspx) and you can see on the page for XP it's for SP2 and SP3 with the same download link. From the _sfx_manifest_ file:

[Deltas]

"update\update.exe" = "_sfx_0000._p", "_sfx_.dll"
"spuninst.exe" = "_sfx_0001._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updspapi.dll" = "_sfx_0002._p", "update\update.exe"
"SP3GDR\html32.cnv" = "_sfx_0003._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv" = "_sfx_0004._p", "SP3GDR\html32.cnv"
"SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc" = "_sfx_0005._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv"
"SP3QFE\mswrd8.wpc" = "_sfx_0006._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc" = "_sfx_0007._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"SP3QFE\mswrd6.wpc" = "_sfx_0008._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc"
"SP3GDR\mswrd632.wpc" = "_sfx_0009._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc"
"SP3QFE\write.wpc" = "_sfx_0010._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd632.wpc"
"SP3GDR\write.wpc" = "_sfx_0011._p", "SP3QFE\write.wpc"
"SP3GDR\write32.wpc" = "_sfx_0012._p", "SP3GDR\write.wpc"
"SP3GDR\msconv97.dll" = "_sfx_0013._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"update\spcustom.dll" = "_sfx_0014._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"spmsg.dll" = "_sfx_0015._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\KB973904.CAT" = "_sfx_0016._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv"
"update\eula.txt" = "_sfx_0017._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updatebr.inf" = "_sfx_0018._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0019._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0020._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\branches.inf" = "_sfx_0021._p", "update\update.exe"

Then from the update.ver file from the "update" folder:

[SourceFileInfo]
sp3gdr\html32.cnv=1456B47C2CD3D5A1876961E1E2E9329F ,07D3044C1FE50000,321888,,5DBC2B35
sp3gdr\msconv97.dll=8138B1BC06981D61403D0852FCB2CB 53,07D3044C1FE50000,119648,,8F10E5D4
sp3gdr\mswrd6.wpc=203E45096B7B2B1BBCB985A878E80A66 ,07D9000A001F000A,187392,SP3GDR,BCFF3CC8
sp3gdr\mswrd632.wpc=E44A93108E2D34A93258499CFFD32A 2E,07D9000A001F000A,187392,,8FDE3DD7
<snipped>

Both files, no mention of "SP2", yet there is numerous "SP3" mentioned. :confused:

But from 974392 LSASS (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS09-069.mspx), same SP2/SP3 and download situation as describe above, but with it its _sfx_manifest_ file, unlike the other this one mentions SP2 in some areas:

[Deltas]

"update\update.exe" = "_sfx_0000._p", "_sfx_.dll"
"spuninst.exe" = "_sfx_0001._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updspapi.dll" = "_sfx_0002._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0003._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0004._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\update_SP2QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0005._p", "update\update_SP3QFE.inf"
"update\update_SP2GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0006._p", "update\update_SP2QFE.inf"
"update\branches.inf" = "_sfx_0007._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\update.ver" = "_sfx_0008._p", "update\branches.inf"
"SP3QFE\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0009._p", "update\update.exe"
"SP3GDR\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0010._p", "SP3QFE\oakley.dll"
"SP2QFE\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0011._p", "SP3GDR\oakley.dll"
"SP2GDR\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0012._p", "SP2QFE\oakley.dll"
"update\updatebr.inf" = "_sfx_0013._p", "update\update.exe"
"spmsg.dll" = "_sfx_0014._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\spcustom.dll" = "_sfx_0015._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\KB974392.CAT" = "_sfx_0016._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\eula.txt" = "_sfx_0017._p", "update\update_SP2GDR.inf"

My thinking originally was along the lines of the .xpi file hacks for FireFox in getting the extensions to work with older FF versions--maybe a similar modification/hack could be done with these patch downloads and the _sfx_manifest_ file (or others), that could be done with the xpi file's unpacked install.rdf file (and I forget the other one). Maybe some lines in that file could be added/deleted that would enable an install on SP2 (after the patches stop). Maybe it's that simple, maybe not. But like you said it could be risky. With FF the worse that could happen is the hacked extension simply wouldn't work. But with XP one may end up screwing up XP in some way. Won't know until someone tests it. I'm sure someone eventually will when SP2 support ends.

deepsand

12-29-2009, 03:15 PM

I don't think IE would actually be called "optional" since I don't know of anyway to install Windows without installing IE, it's part of the "shell".
But, it's not part of the kernel; it's presence and use is not necessary.

I don't know about "gracefully", LoL. I have tried to install SP2 patches and I got the pop-up with something about the patch "not being needed" or "is only for SP2".
By "gracefully" I mean that Windows Installer does not blindly plunge ahead, but stops you from clobbering system files with incompatible modifications.

I unpacked two of the most recent updates I saved. One was 973904 for Wordpad (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms09-073.mspx) and you can see on the page for XP it's for SP2 and SP3 with the same download link. From the _sfx_manifest_ file:

[Deltas]

"update\update.exe" = "_sfx_0000._p", "_sfx_.dll"
"spuninst.exe" = "_sfx_0001._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updspapi.dll" = "_sfx_0002._p", "update\update.exe"
"SP3GDR\html32.cnv" = "_sfx_0003._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv" = "_sfx_0004._p", "SP3GDR\html32.cnv"
"SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc" = "_sfx_0005._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv"
"SP3QFE\mswrd8.wpc" = "_sfx_0006._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc" = "_sfx_0007._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"SP3QFE\mswrd6.wpc" = "_sfx_0008._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc"
"SP3GDR\mswrd632.wpc" = "_sfx_0009._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd6.wpc"
"SP3QFE\write.wpc" = "_sfx_0010._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd632.wpc"
"SP3GDR\write.wpc" = "_sfx_0011._p", "SP3QFE\write.wpc"
"SP3GDR\write32.wpc" = "_sfx_0012._p", "SP3GDR\write.wpc"
"SP3GDR\msconv97.dll" = "_sfx_0013._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd8.wpc"
"update\spcustom.dll" = "_sfx_0014._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"spmsg.dll" = "_sfx_0015._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\KB973904.CAT" = "_sfx_0016._p", "SP3GDR\mswrd832.cnv"
"update\eula.txt" = "_sfx_0017._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updatebr.inf" = "_sfx_0018._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0019._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0020._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\branches.inf" = "_sfx_0021._p", "update\update.exe"

Then from the update.ver file from the "update" folder:

[SourceFileInfo]
sp3gdr\html32.cnv=1456B47C2CD3D5A1876961E1E2E9329F ,07D3044C1FE50000,321888,,5DBC2B35
sp3gdr\msconv97.dll=8138B1BC06981D61403D0852FCB2CB 53,07D3044C1FE50000,119648,,8F10E5D4
sp3gdr\mswrd6.wpc=203E45096B7B2B1BBCB985A878E80A66 ,07D9000A001F000A,187392,SP3GDR,BCFF3CC8
sp3gdr\mswrd632.wpc=E44A93108E2D34A93258499CFFD32A 2E,07D9000A001F000A,187392,,8FDE3DD7
<snipped>

Both files, no mention of "SP2", yet there is numerous "SP3" mentioned. :confused:

But from 974392 LSASS (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS09-069.mspx), same SP2/SP3 and download situation as describe above, but with it its _sfx_manifest_ file, unlike the other this one mentions SP2 in some areas:

[Deltas]

"update\update.exe" = "_sfx_0000._p", "_sfx_.dll"
"spuninst.exe" = "_sfx_0001._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\updspapi.dll" = "_sfx_0002._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0003._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\update_SP3QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0004._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\update_SP2QFE.inf" = "_sfx_0005._p", "update\update_SP3QFE.inf"
"update\update_SP2GDR.inf" = "_sfx_0006._p", "update\update_SP2QFE.inf"
"update\branches.inf" = "_sfx_0007._p", "update\update_SP3GDR.inf"
"update\update.ver" = "_sfx_0008._p", "update\branches.inf"
"SP3QFE\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0009._p", "update\update.exe"
"SP3GDR\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0010._p", "SP3QFE\oakley.dll"
"SP2QFE\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0011._p", "SP3GDR\oakley.dll"
"SP2GDR\oakley.dll" = "_sfx_0012._p", "SP2QFE\oakley.dll"
"update\updatebr.inf" = "_sfx_0013._p", "update\update.exe"
"spmsg.dll" = "_sfx_0014._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\spcustom.dll" = "_sfx_0015._p", "update\updspapi.dll"
"update\KB974392.CAT" = "_sfx_0016._p", "update\update.exe"
"update\eula.txt" = "_sfx_0017._p", "update\update_SP2GDR.inf"

Presumably those entries that reference a particular SP are for that SP only, while those that do not apply to both.

Perhaps wige has played with this.

Clint1

12-30-2009, 04:47 AM

But, it's not part of the kernel; it's presence and use is not necessary.
I know its use is not necessary, but isn't its presence necessary? I seem to remember some threads at my email list about trying to remove IE from Windows and it couldn't be done. Anyway......

Presumably those entries that reference a particular SP are for that SP only, while those that do not apply to both.

Perhaps wige has played with this.
No, I mentioned above that both of the patch examples I gave were for both SP2 and SP3 (if that's what you mean). But if you mean something else, like those lines somehow signify how the patch is to be "installed" or "used" on each SP.....that may make sense except again both patches are for both SP's. So I don't understand why both SP #'s would be mentioned in one's manifest file, but not in the other.

kgun

12-30-2009, 12:56 PM

deepsand

12-30-2009, 01:10 PM

... I mentioned above that both of the patch examples I gave were for both SP2 and SP3 (if that's what you mean). But if you mean something else, like those lines somehow signify how the patch is to be "installed" or "used" on each SP.....that may make sense except again both patches are for both SP's. So I don't understand why both SP #'s would be mentioned in one's manifest file, but not in the other.
By that I was suggesting that such may be directives to Windows Installer, so as to avoid the need for separate & distinctly different patch files for each SP.

Clint1

12-31-2009, 01:35 AM

I have not read the whole thread, so this question may already be answered.

Is there a place where XP Sp 1 ... n can be downloaded in one Cd / file? I have a Norwegian version.

From time to time I reformat my old Xp computer that is still good enough for some tasks. Then I have to use the old original restore Cd with SP I and upgrade the rest ... Sp I to n.

IMO Windows Xp is one of the better products MS have made.

After reformatting the computer is as new.
All I can find is the "express install" which is some kind of "downloader" that I believe "calls to M$" to hopefully download it and not just install it (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0136E5F8-1684-4202-B2D0-C6A43430F12A&displaylang=en). I would think it still has to download it, so maybe you can pause the install (don't hit a "next" button), then go to the Temp folder on your HD (or search for it) and find & save the download that way.

According to another M$ page it's no longer available for download. The original file names are xpSP1a_en_x86 and xpsp1_en_x86, I think the first one is SP1a and the later is just SP1, but SP1a is for whatever reason smaller at 125mb compared to 133mb for the other. If that link won't give you the download, and you still can't find them, I have both of them and I may be able to find a way to get one of them to you. But they're not Norwegian.

EDIT: Ahh, here we go: SP1 (http://www.filewatcher.com/m/xpsp1_en_x86.exe.140440152.0.0.html), SP1a (http://www.filewatcher.com/m/xpsp1a_en_x86.exe.131170400.0.0.html). I was lucky to find those, make sure you save a few copies of it! ;)

kgun

12-31-2009, 05:54 AM

Thank you.

But they're not Norwegian.

I thought of that statement.

Most often softwre / code is softwre / code. Language specific features are put in DLL's or resource files that are linked to the obj file before the executable exe file is produced. I don't know how that is implemented in XP and in the various Sp's.

deepsand

12-31-2009, 01:33 PM

Is there a place where XP Sp 1 ... n can be downloaded in one Cd / file?
Collecting installables for each SP onto a single CD may be handy; but, as a given installable needs to be bootable, you'll not be able to use such to install multiple SPs.

You can, though, create a slipstream CD, which integrates the installable for a given SP, the updates to subsequent SPs, and/or patches.

kgun

01-02-2010, 10:43 AM

I should prefer that MS sell a final Cd with the different versions (upgrades) when they end support for Xp.

deepsand

01-02-2010, 10:54 AM

Such would have to be an OEM version, as there's no way for MS to know which optional hardware and/or software updates might be applicable to a particular platform.

And, an OEM version is not guaranteed to work on all machines.

innominds

01-02-2010, 10:58 AM

I should prefer that MS sell a final Cd with the different versions (upgrades) when they end support for Xp.

I don't think Microsoft will do that.
They will concentrate only on Windows 7 and leave the rest for air.

Clint1

03-14-2010, 12:48 PM

I don't think Microsoft is gonna end the support for windows XP sp2..........
They are going to end support for it. I don't recall the exact dates, but I mentioned in this thread somewhere. It's 2014 (or 2012?) I think for XP SP3. SP2, before that.

Doc

03-14-2010, 01:15 PM

I don't think Microsoft is gonna end the support for windows XP sp2..........

Did you bother to read Post #1 and the link given there? Because Microsoft says otherwise. :rolleyes:

deepsand

03-14-2010, 06:57 PM

Well, considering how many times MS has already postponed XP's funeral, why should we now assume that this latest announcement will stand?

alphaomega

03-14-2010, 10:38 PM

Been a Microsoft OEM, I know that they support previous OS only if the new one is not success. Since Windows 7 is a success commercially, they will stop supporting XP. Timing is unpredictable because they will stop when they have certain numbers on Windows 7. I am OEM for too long to know they interested only in sales, not support. Support cost money and doesn't bring any in. Microsoft is fully commercial company. As I said before, Window 7 is a viable alternative to XP. It runs better and uses less resources. There is no need to cling to XP. And all software works onWin 7

deepsand

03-14-2010, 11:56 PM

Timing is unpredictable ...
.. is the reason for my having questioned the certitude expressed by some.

Clint1

03-15-2010, 12:51 AM

This page (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-gb&C2=1173) appears to have been updated. So according to that, it has XP (Home & Pro) listed as 8-4-2014, and: "Support ends 24 months after the next service pack releases or at the end of the product's support lifecycle, whichever comes first. For more information, please see the service pack policy at Please Verify your Location (http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/#ServicePackSupport) ".

So that would seem to indicate that if SP3 is the last SP for XP (and it's "supposed" to be), 8-4-2014 is when support for it wll end.

......There is no need to cling to XP. And all software works on Win 7
There could be many reasons to "cling" to XP--Drivers, software, those that don't like IE7 or IE8, etc. No, not all software works on Win7. ;) It will still be awhile before that happens, and even when it does, it will only be "newer" software, there will still be the countless very useful "old" programs that millions use (including myself) that won't have Win7 versions because they are no longer made. I still have Win98 software that's no longer made, that I use all the time. Luckily they work on XP when changing the executables' properties for "Compatibility mode".

It would be great if that so-called "Virtual XP" I think it's called on Win7 really works. Or if it has a similar Compatibility mode that would allow XP software to run......but what about the Win98 software that will run on XP in Compatibility mode? They probably won't run on Win7.

efriendofu

03-17-2010, 02:43 AM

its better microsoft ends windows xp.. windows xp has anyway lots of bugs ...

deepsand

03-17-2010, 03:57 AM

its better microsoft ends windows xp.. windows xp has anyway lots of bugs ...
Name a major system which does not.

Clint1

03-17-2010, 08:10 AM

Yeah, every M$ OS has been loaded with bugs. The longer they are out, the more they are used, the more are found (and found by hackers) and the more patches are released.