MS vs OS

[DT]

As Open Source is getting popular almost everywhere, what is the future of enterprise operating systems like Microsoft? Can it surivive the battle?

[sparky_t]

As of 16:55 on the 4th of this month Bill Gates owned $28,998,647,803.35 worth of Microsoft shares. (Thats a little over 10% of all MS Shares). He has accumulated a fortune earning him $50 every second.

Sadly - as the richest man in the world - 11 years running - I am confident that MS/Bill will own everything in the world shortly. - Even Linux.

Sparky

[DT]

Sadly - as the richest man in the world - 11 years running - I am confident that MS/Bill will own everything in the world shortly. - Even Linux.

Sparky

That means money matters a lot!!??

Even Open Source will melt into/for money?

[xmx]

I think they will survive, but it will be more difficult for them to be a monopoly, and these are two very different things.

[imvain2]

Actually it was just announced Bill Gates is the second richest man now, just behind the owner of IKEA.

In my opinion on the future of MS vs OS. For the below reasons, I believe Windows will stick with the majority of users and OS will stick with the techie users and the majority of webservers.

First) Windows despite its many problems and monopoly status, is so easy for newbies its not even funny. That is what has helped it become a monopoly, so to me people know more Windows' users compared to OS users.

Second) I'm not completly familiar with OS, but I know Windows' has standards. So more programmers are able to build software for the platform, which means a myriad of software is available for the general public.

I'm sure their are more reasons, but I cannot think of any more.

[mushroom]

As of 16:55 on the 4th of this month Bill Gates owned $28,998,647,803.35 worth of Microsoft shares. (Thats a little over 10% of all MS Shares). He has accumulated a fortune earning him $50 every second.

Sadly - as the richest man in the world - 11 years running - I am confident that MS/Bill will own everything in the world shortly. - Even Linux.

Sparky
[/b]Never Linux! Freedom is not for sale at any Price.[/b]
You can fool all the people some of the time ~~~ MS days are coming to an end.[/b]

[ChristinaS]

OK, so I'm a total newbie. I've tried installing various pieces of open-source software, and I've had a lot of problems. Compatibility with this, compatibility with that.... By fluke I've found out that yes, there's a bug in something and the fix is available somewhere. But then you also need another fix or a plugin......

In theory OS sounds good. Except, from what I see, the adherents and contributors have to get organized much better. Somebody has to control the stuff, otherwise it will get out of hand. And I feel this will only happen once they get about as big as MS is.

Until we get automatic updates of all the OS stuff we've installed this will remain a geek's domain. I don't want to tinker with making skins work and plugins and cracks and whatnot. I want the thing to work and to work smoothly with everything else I have. MS stuff does. Other stuff doesn't appear to, at least not for me, not easily.

And then again, what do I know? I'm probably not even talking about the same thing as everybody else :P

[mushroom]

OK, so I'm a total newbie. I've tried installing various pieces of open-source software, and I've had a lot of problems. Compatibility with this, compatibility with that.... By fluke I've found out that yes, there's a bug in something and the fix is available somewhere. But then you also need another fix or a plugin......

In theory OS sounds good. Except, from what I see, the adherents and contributors have to get organized much better. Somebody has to control the stuff, otherwise it will get out of hand. And I feel this will only happen once they get about as big as MS is.

Until we get automatic updates of all the OS stuff we've installed this will remain a geek's domain. I don't want to tinker with making skins work and plugins and cracks and whatnot. I want the thing to work and to work smoothly with everything else I have. MS stuff does. Other stuff doesn't appear to, at least not for me, not easily.

And then again, what do I know? I'm probably not even talking about the same thing as everybody else :P

MS stuff does. HA! HA! HA!
MS is the corrupt past
With IBM & NOVELL firmly behind SuSe Linux
LINUX is the FUTURE.

[ChristinaS]

MS stuff does. HA! HA! HA!
MS is the corrupt past
With IBM & NOVELL firmly behind SuSe Linux
LINUX is the FUTURE.

Thanks, Mushroom, for your eloquence.

I think I remember about 15 years ago a similar argument was made against IBM and pro MS. Perhaps you don't know that MS rose out of IBM's shadow, to combat IBM's arrogance at the time in respect to all things related to software for the PC, which they considered just another toy. Not until MS came about did the PC start to have a useful function besides that of playing games - besides it wasn't even very good at those, a Commodore was better and cheaper.

So maybe in time IBM will rise again. Linux may become mainstream rather than marginal. Until the FUTURE is here, the PRESENT is still MS.

But you know what? As soon as Linux or something else becomes hugely popular and widespread, they will be accused of the same evils as MS is now.

[xmx]

I desire to precise to people that only know the freeware versions of linux that commercial suites, that cost a fraction of MS softwares, are now highly competitive.

I purchased my first commercial suite of linux back in 2000, when MS launched the Windows 2000, quite a flop.

It was already very interesting and became my standard.

Last year, in 2003, I bought a new commercial suite, SuSE, and it is almost totally plug and play and provides an enormity of packages for all uses.

Linux is more popular of what many MS users believe, and it is rather the standard for web servers on the net with many developpers at work.

[mikmik]

I read all over about how MAC, and LINUX users seem to be, in general, so apparently "fanatical" and dedicated.
I see what Devorak means all the time as people insist on :
a - seeing MS as inherently devious and greedy/powerhungry (implying, I suppose, that 'their side' is altruistic and pure,illustrating immediate hypocricy)

and b furthuring the hypocricy by assuming THEY THEMSELVES are the only alternative/player in the game, and that THEY THEMSELVES will soon rule the earth, much like the way they claim MS does now.

There are a plethora of open source software, servers, applications, programming languages etc, not just LINUX Variants.

Does anyone here know about Mozilla, for instance?
http://subversion.tigris.org/ as an example application, and there is SUNMicro in the equations etc.,
Numerous options that are good, both open source and commercial, and ChristinaS has hit the nail on the head!
I realize, of course, that some is playful boasting, but if any one 'system' is to dominate, they had better be good, because that is where the money will follow, UNIX, Linux, Windows, open source, closed, for sale, for free...
Less talk, more walk.
Show me, don't tell me, He who doth protesteth to much draws suspicion

Lots of choices, good and bad. People want easy and effortless.
I see it as becoming more chaotic, on all fronts, not dominated by anyone or type.

The end of Microsoft?
What a completely absurd question.
I do know everything, and one day I will dominate LOFL

DT, I am not talking about you, it is a good question and you mention MS only as an example, and use open source generically, thanks for an interesting question, and lots of good input, everyone, it is fun.

[mikmik]

PS. It will have much to do with security, and how solid that is, that will determine who survives.

[Quicksilverdirect]

Newbie here,

New to OS and Coding...

The biggest reason MS is where it is today is simplicity of installation. Most MS programs are Plug & Play. For OS to compete it has to do 3 main things.

1. Make GUI more "user friendly".
2. Set Standards of the Code yet not limit the creativity of the Programmers.
3. ORGANIZE - Of all the OS out there there is no one place to go.

These are simply suggestions and I have noticed over the last year or so I have been using OS that there really is no one place to go. SourceForge.net is a great place to go to get "almost" everything you need. They have great Library's and Archives. However, If you are a newbie you get lost very easily.

One other point -and I know this is difficult to do- If OS is to compete in the big leagues, "ALL" OS must be "Plug and Play". The big leagues I refer to are the normal everyday user. This is what makes the big guys big. There are more individual computer users out there than Businesses, and with Linux being used primarily in Corporations, Servers and the like Linux will not really be able to compete with MS for the little guys.

The average computer user doesn't know what a "binary" is much less how to compile them. There needs to be more OS programs that are Click & Go Win32.exe programs. Linux obviously has very few programs compared to that of MS.

Probably 80-90% of the computers that aren't MAC or OS are MS, and with that Linux will have to make it easier for the individual user.

To do this is in one word - KISS -

KEEP IT SUPER SIMPLE - :)

Eric Wichman

[howardrourke]

Okay, I'm a little late to the party (and definitely not as technically knowledge as some of the above) but I felt compelled to chime in.

As I see it, you have to look beyond the technology to the underlying principals. Originally, the internet was created as a co-op, for the purpose of information sharing. However, since then it has evolved primarily into a vehicle of commerce. Accordingly, marketing has become a major factor.

It is no longer effective just to build a better mousetrap - you gotta get the word out. In fact, I would argue that you can build a fairly mediocre mousetrap and still do pretty well. Look at how significant Search Engine Optimization has become.

Which is more valuable to its owner? A mediocre website with a high volume of targeted traffic, or a great website with minimal visits.

Accordingly, I would argue that while OS may be more effective (and maybe even a little more palatable) it will always be overshadowed by its highly marketed competitor. Coke sells. MacDonald's sells. Microsoft sells.

Has anyone ever heard of a functioning website that doesn't render correctly in IE? Maybe... but I suspect that a far larger number of users have had problems rendering a site with whatever OS they have on their MAC. Blah blah blah.

Is this how I think it should be? No. Do I have a solution? Not at this time. But I am open to suggestions....

Thanks for listening,

Adam

[esiegel]

Friends always ask me why I don't use OS...Linux in particular. I usually just tell them I haven't had the time to learn it...but some day.

Here is the real reason...and what scares me about OS. Who is responsible for it? Think about it. I spend way to much time fighting viruses and other garbage on my machine now...Why would I want to install software (or an operating system) written basically by anonymous programmers who I won't be able to track down when my machine crashes and takes all of my data...an potentially all of my friends' data...with it?

Maybe I'm a little paranoid about this, but it seems like buggy programming would be the least of your worries when using OS.

[mushroom]

Friends always ask me why I don't use OS...Linux in particular. I usually just tell them I haven't had the time to learn it...but some day.

Here is the real reason...and what scares me about OS. Who is responsible for it? Think about it. I spend way to much time fighting viruses and other garbage on my machine now...Why would I want to install software (or an operating system) written basically by anonymous programmers who I won't be able to track down when my machine crashes and takes all of my data...an potentially all of my friends' data...with it?

Maybe I'm a little paranoid about this, but it seems like buggy programming would be the least of your worries when using OS.


Very poor excuse all known viruses and worms wild (over 80,000 of them) on the net only affect MS machines.
If you moved to Linux think of all the time and resorcess you free up.
The linux commuity offers great free support, just ask.
Paied support is also available with the major distros like SuSe, Mandrake, or Red Hat.

[esiegel]

Very poor excuse all known viruses and worms wild (over 80,000 of them) on the net only affect MS machines.
If you moved to Linux think of all the time and resorcess you free up.
The linux commuity offers great free support, just ask.
Paied support is also available with the major distros like SuSe, Mandrake, or Red Hat.

I beg to differ...
True the KNOWN viruses affect MS machines...primarily because that is the largest target, an because it is easiest to get it to propogate. But think about it...I'm spending my time making sure that nobody can get into the 'small holes' in my system. Does it really make sense to say...OK, write any code into my operating system that you want and I load it onto my system....? Think about the potential for malice.

[mushroom]

[quote=mushroom]

I beg to differ...
True the KNOWN viruses affect MS machines...primarily because that is the largest target, an because it is easiest to get it to propogate. But think about it...I'm spending my time making sure that nobody can get into the 'small holes' in my system. Does it really make sense to say...OK, write any code into my operating system that you want and I load it onto my system....? Think about the potential for malice.

...OK, write any code into my operating system that you want and I load it onto my system....? Think about the potential for malice.

Isn't that what you are telling MS who try and keep their code secret.
Linux is open source indivdual code writers take credit for thier work. Any one can read the code and point out the defects to the writers.
MS has been known to try and keep known security issueses a secret for several months.
Linux was built with network security as a high priority.
MS was built as a desktop originalaly never intended to connect to an other computer let alone the internet.
Viruses exsist because MS seems to value money and thier secret code over your securety.
For an eye opener read MS's ULA.

[esiegel]

Isn't that what you are telling MS who try and keep their code secret.

Any time we load software or any other files onto our machines, we are trusting someone. I know...MS has much to gain by knowing what we are doing...but they have much more to lose by giving up the trust (what little there is) that they have built. Think about it...Headline comes out someday that a programmer at MS has inserted 10 lines of code into there new operating system that will, upon some trigger, cripple the internet and potentially all business e-mail. MS has $billions behind them to make the situation right...they also have those same $billions to prevent it from happening in the first place...

On the other hand...some unknown anonymous program inserts 10 lines of code into the LINUX oporating system that does the same thing... Do you read every line of new code before updating your version of Linux? probably not.

There are people out there that make it there life's hobby to find ways to destroy data...not that it ever effects them...just for the thrill. Why give them another avenue for their fun.

[tamra]

As of 16:55 on the 4th of this month Bill Gates owned $28,998,647,803.35 worth of Microsoft shares. (Thats a little over 10% of all MS Shares). He has accumulated a fortune earning him $50 every second.

Sadly - as the richest man in the world - 11 years running - I am confident that MS/Bill will own everything in the world shortly. - Even Linux.

Sparky

can you hear me screaming now at the idea of this! :o) this is definitely one of the apocalypse signs as this will have me "shaking in me boots". but definitely I agree, if anything is taking away from "Mr. Gates" fortune, the next thing to do is buy it and add more to this fortune. *sigh* mental note: tell everyone to go underground with Linux and send out bogus note we're now using MS. :o)