HELP! Bizarre page problem is driving me nuts!

[minstrel]

My home page at http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm currently contains the following cell:

<TD width="122" height="53" valign="baseline" align="center" xpos="64">
images/rsac.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>

which references this image:
http://www.psychlinks.ca/images/rsac.gif.

Using Frontpage (although inserting the code manually doesn't make any difference), I've been trying to update this image to the ICRA image, as follows:

<TD width="131" height="34" valign="baseline" align="center">
images/icra.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>

which contains this image:
http://www.psychlinks.ca/images/icra.gif.

However, each time I publish the new page, it gets transferred as this:

http://www.psychlinks.ca/index2.htm

Note the image and link is missing - check the source for the page and the reference to the image is stripped out.

What is happening here? Is it poltergeists again? I hate this page...

[Jurgen]

I checked both pages and all shows up just fine. The image and the links are there. hmmmm!

Jurgen

[minstrel]

I checked both pages and all shows up just fine. The image and the links are there. hmmmm!

That is too bizarre... not only do I not see the image but when I look at the source there is no code for the image:

<TD width="131" height="34" valign="baseline" align="center">
</TD>

I've been playing with this for two days... I'm out of ideas...

[minstrel]

Okay... if I use Frontpage to open the version of the page on my server and check the code, it is correct.

But if I ask MSIE to open the page, the image is missing and when I click on "View source" I get what I just posted above... with the image info stripped out.

It IS poltergeists, right?

[carbonize]

Try deleting your temporary internet files and see if it's not a cached problem.

Oh and center the page as it leaves a big green space to the right on 1024x768.

[minstrel]

I have deleted the temp internet files (3 times in fact)... doesn't make a difference...

[redcircle]

when all else fails.. reboot.

[minstrel]

when all else fails.. reboot.

Done that too... no improvement.

The bizarre thing is that the local files both display correctly and index.htm displays correctly; index2.htm does not, and the source code shows no link to the image file, even though the version of that page on my server contains the correct code.

[carju1]

David,

It worked fine for me so it is definately some sort of cache problem.

OK so you've deleted all the local cache stuff which basically leaves your ISP's cache. I had a similar problem with a client a while back (It worked fine for me but the client couldn't see the changes) and it was their ISP's cache.

The solution I came up with was add a no cache to the index.htm page:
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="-1">
and upload it.

I then locally renamed index.htm to default.htm and uploaded. Viewed that page on-line a few times then asked for index.htm. Eventually the ISP will realise index.htm doesn't exist. When this happens change default.htm back to index.htm and re-upload.

Voila - your ISP will have the new index.htm page with the no-cache and any changes you make will stay made and not cached.

Long, complex and a pain in the 'arm' but it will work

Regards
Julian

[Sualdam]

If it is your ISP's proxy (mine does it and caches pages for up to about 24 hours), try this.

Assuming your page is 'index.htm' type in the Address bar:

http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm?1

and see what happens.

It should force the loading of a new page from the server and not the cached one (if it is that).

If it works, change the '1' to other numbers to test your page repeatedly.

[minstrel]

OK so you've deleted all the local cache stuff which basically leaves your ISP's cache.

The solution I came up with was add a no cache to the index.htm page:
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">
<meta HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="-1">
and upload it.

I then locally renamed index.htm to default.htm and uploaded. Viewed that page on-line a few times then asked for index.htm. Eventually the ISP will realise index.htm doesn't exist. When this happens change default.htm back to index.htm and re-upload.


Thanks, Julian: I'll give this a shot.

[minstrel]

Assuming your page is 'index.htm' type in the Address bar:

http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm?1

It should force the loading of a new page from the server and not the cached one (if it is that).

If it works, change the '1' to other numbers to test your page repeatedly.

I just tried this now, Sualdam: for numbers 1-12 at least it made no difference...

[Sualdam]

My immediate thought would be that it can't be the cache - but there's nothing else it could be!

Odd :(

[matauri]

David, if I put in your orignal url I get your new image. If I type in this one :
http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm?1 that Sualdam suggested...I get the old image.

Its got to be a ISP side cache prob I think.

Good luck anyway :-)


Cindy

[carbonize]

index.htm is old image, index2.htm is the new image.

I've checked both on 2 OS's, 2 resolutions, and 4 browsers and both pages work fine on all. The problem has to be your ISP's cache. Try uploading it again under a different name so that it's not cached.

[minstrel]

Thanks everyone who checked the pages for me and for your suggestions... I was thinking that I must be missing something here...

I'll try the suggestions and then contact my tech support people if that doesn't pan out.

[drummin]

Hi minstrel,
Looks to me like you still have the old code on your site. I copied this form their.

<TD width="122" height="53" valign="baseline" align="center" xpos="64">
images/rsac.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>

It seems to me that you could just edit the file using FTP, open the file with edit. Highlight and replace the cell above with the new one, and save and reload. View the page and hit Ctrl F5 to dump the cache.
Maybe this too simple an answer, but that’s what I would do.
Drummin

[minstrel]

Hi minstrel,
Looks to me like you still have the old code on your site. I copied this from there.

<TD width="122" height="53" valign="baseline" align="center" xpos="64">
images/rsac.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>

It seems to me that you could just edit the file using FTP, open the file with edit. Highlight and replace the cell above with the new one, and save and reload. View the page and hit Ctrl F5 to dump the cache. Maybe this too simple an answer, but that’s what I would do.

Actually, you are viewing http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm and you're correct about the code there. That's because when I made the substitution of the graphic, it failed to display (at least on my computer, with caches cleared, etc.; other people apparently don't have this problem - see posts above), so I reloaded the original graphic for the default page on the site. The (new) altered version is at http://www.psychlinks.ca/index2.htm.

Hitting Refresh or F5 doesn't work - I haven't yet contacted tech support about an ISP cache because I've been working on other sections of the website but I suspect that is the next logical step...

As for simple FTPing, with some exceptions that can be a bad idea in FrontPage, because it doesn't update the local links and can result in a corrupted website. Thus, the best general advice for people publishing in FrontPage is "don't" - use one of the publishing modes available in FrontPage itself.

So, basically, it seems it isn't that simple, although it should be... (sigh).

Thanks anyway for taking the time to look at the page... I do appreciate your efforts and the efforts of everyone who did so.

I still think it's poltergeists... ;-)

[drummin]

So,
<TD width="122" height="53" valign="baseline" align="center" xpos="64">
images/rsac.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>
Is the original at http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm


<TD width="131" height="34" valign="baseline" align="center">
images/icra.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>
http://www.psychlinks.ca/index2.htm
Which is what you want, right?

And at http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm?1 you see the original, right?
Even if as Sualdam says,
"Assuming your page is 'index.htm' type in the Address bar:

http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm?1

and see what happens.

It should force the loading of a new page from the server and not the cached one (if it is that)."

I you still have
<TD width="122" height="53" valign="baseline" align="center" xpos="64">
images/rsac.gif (http://www.icra.org/)</TD>

as the original http://www.psychlinks.ca/index.htm

Loaded as index, so rebooting is reloading the old file?

Assuming you have both upload, could you delete “index.htm” and rename “index2”?

Hey, maybe I’ll leave this alone. I was only trying to help. I guess I don’t know what I’m talking about.

[carbonize]

OH the joys of being a frontpage user hey Minstrel :p

Can't you simply ftp in, change the files code remotely, then use notepad to change the locally stored copy?

[minstrel]

I'm telling you.... it's poltergeists... possibly FrontPage poltergeists, but nonetheless... ;-)

None of the logical explanations make any sense, including the "ISP cache one", because I have in fact renamed files, uploaded as different names, etc., etc. No matter what I do, the pages display correctly locally and when other people download the pages, but not when I download the page with icra.gif to my computer. I have changed the names around on the two index pages - I still get the problem.

[carbonize]

Just out of curiosity how many browsers have you tried it on at your end?

[minstrel]

Just out of curiosity how many browsers have you tried it on at your end?

That was a good idea, since I'd only previously tried it on IE6... However, I just tried it on Netscape 4.7 and I get the same problem...

[carbonize]

You say you tried uploading index2 again but called it something else entirely and it still showed you no image code? If thats the case the only thing I could suggest is getting down to basics. By this I mean actually using a packet sniffer to see what your browser is connecting to, what it is requesting and what is being sent back from the server. This is one of the reasons I use Sygate (http://www.sygate.com) for my firewall as I occasionally need to sniff packets for various reasons.

BTW in your right hand side image links why is the purple on the search link mouse over different to the purple/lilac in the other links?

Oh just a quick idea, try http://www.samspade.org/t/safe?u=http://www.psychlinks.ca/index2.htm which is from www.samspade.org (http://www.samspade.org) which has nice tools like safe browse where you can just get a pages source code. Or try a web proxy to bypass any caching at your end or the ISP, you can find a list of some here (http://www.astalavista.com/privacy/library/proxy/proxyserver.shtml).

[minstrel]

Thanks for all the suggestions, carbonize - I'll give them a shot when I get a chance.

As for the slightly different purple color on the mouseover, that's a long aggravating story having to do with the graphics artist who designed various graphics for me; one day, I'll get around to trying to fix and/or revamp that as well...