Do dashes in your domain hurt your SERP ?

[Jelly]

Hi

I have a 3 word domain with dashes between them as so: my-domain-name . com
will search engines consider this spammy? will it hurt my SERP ?

I don't intend to tell anyone this domain over phone, nore do I even intend for someone to type this domain in their address bar.
I don't really care if anyone remembers this domain or not, it's not a name of company or brand or whatever, and I already own mydomainname . com and have other plans for it.
I also don't care about the domain's value as I will never sell it.

I searched and found threads about this from 2004 and 2006, maybe things have changed since then.

[Hafsoh]

Domain names with dashes do fine in the search engines however, the more the dashes the more spammy the domain name will look. Personally small and single dashed domains are okay.

[Tubby]

Hafsof said
"Domain names with dashes do fine in the search engines"

I Agree with Hafsoh.

[innominds]

If you don't find mydomainname.com then the next best option is my-domain-name.com
Just go with 2 dashes.

[nickoran]

If you don't find mydomainname.com then the next best option is my-domain-name.com
Just go with 2 dashes.
Yes I tend to agree, although there are usually so many alternatives available. Anyway, i just posted about the use of hyphens vs underscores here: http://www.webproworld.com/search-engine-optimization-forum/76831-better-search-engine-optimization-underscore-hyphen.html just thought you might find it usefull as underscores are an obvious alternativeyet this would suggest your best off with the hyphens your currently using.

[nichita2008]

I have one website with dashes (just two words). The site it has good rankings in SERPs. For me with or without dashes are the same thing. Just be careful to the length of website's name.

[Doc]

I think MC's answer was fairly clear, that dashes are preferable, but not mandatory. I think the biggest issue, if SERPS is a concern, is that you use my-domain.com, rather than mydomain.com, unless you are fairly certain that users searching for your site would be typing in "mydomain, without a space.

EDIT: When I say that MC said that dashes are preferable, I am referring to preferable to underscore, not that dashes are preferable to single word URLs. ;)

[EliteAF]

Past experience says that it does not hurt, but it is different. 3 years ago, dashes worked better in Yahoo than Google, I do not know if that has changed.

[z28com]

I've been using dashes in my domains since 2003 with no problems.

[astro]

The hyphon is works fine for me with my main site.

Just a thought but these days what about .info?

It is a top level domain with little take up!

/Astro

[microtekblue]

Dashes are ok to use, however, they may not be considered more relevant when going against a competitor with the same keyword in the url.

Ex. mysite.com vs my-site.com

Which will rank better? The one without dashes would be more relevant.

[z28com]

I only like .com's and nothing else. When you use dashes, you should have no problems finding an available .com.

[Doc]

Dashes are ok to use, however, they may not be considered more relevant when going against a competitor with the same keyword in the url.

Ex. mysite.com vs my-site.com

Which will rank better? The one without dashes would be more relevant.


If your user conducts a search for "mysite", you may be correct, I'm not certain. But if they are searching for "my site", I suspect that the hyphenated URL would carry more relevance than the non-hyphenated. It's fairly common convention for the SEs to see the words that are separated by hyphens or underscores, as separate words.

[keywordguy]

Part of my personal strategy for domains I plan on people searching for in the search engines is to use hyphenated domains when possible. Hyphens not abused can do the following:

- Improve a search engine's ability to correlate your domain name with your site theme as not all search engines do a good job discerning word breaks.
- Domain names with hyphens help users better read through a domain name with multiple words.
- Easy to read destination URL for your PPC campaigns.

I'll have to experiment with some domains with 3 or more hyphens to see if they get treated as spammy.

[Dinghus]

You know what is interesting about dashes, even tho they are allowed, you can not put 3 together starting on the 2nd space. Other places it is fine.
For instance a--z.com is okay (and taken) 2 dashes.
BUT a---z.com is NOT a valid domain name.
a--b---z.com IS a valid name.
a---b---z.com is NOT a valid name.
Not that I would stick a bunch of dashes together like that in a name but I can't find that rule written anywhere but it is obviously there. I wonder if that is just something the registrars have instituted?

[claybutler]

I wouldn't let search engines preferences have any sway in my choice of URL. If you like it, then go for it. Keep in mind though that dashes look tacky and are generally only used for things like www.cheap-wooden-furniture.com which in my opinion is a terrible domain name. Totally un-brandable and forgetable.

Image this conversation in 1998

Larry: "What should we call our search engine?"

Sergey: "I like Google. It's a play on googol. Clever, huh?"

Larry: "Yes, but it's not very descriptive and I think if we use lots of keywords, it will do better in Yahoo, Hotbot, Alta Vista, and AOL"

Sergey: "So what do you want to call it instead?"

Larry: "I'm thinking www.best-search-engine.com"

Sergey: "Ok, let's do it"

And so "Best Search Engine Inc" was born. (Not to be confused with their competitors "www.bestsearch-engine.com", "www.best-searchengine.com" and "www.top-search-engine.com")

[dwells87199]

This is a great thread because I just launched childrens-books.com (http://www.childrens-books.com) and was wondering how it would fair. I'll keep you up to date as things progress.

[simonm]

If the focus on gaining customers is the search engine, then that is the 'customer' you need to consider when naming your site. The browser, when looking at the search results will be far more interested in Title / Description effectively the call to action than the domain name.

As to the effectiveness of hyphenated domain names, they work and are very effective. I've used this technique for years and will continue using them.

[subsystems]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is non-hyphenated domain names can have a potential serious drawback.

mydomainname.com
my-domainname.com
my-domain-name.com
my-do-mainname.com
my-do-main-name.com
my-do-ma-in-name.com
my-do-ma-inn-a-me.com

All of these domains are not created equal to the likes of the SEs. If you want the SEs to give you relevance for my-domainname.com, you'd better use the one with the hyphen in the right place. Otherwise your domain may be seen as a different combination of words than your intended meaning.

A funny one I heard years ago was a tourist site in NV registered gotahoe.com meaning go-tahoe.com but it could be read by the SEs as got-a-hoe.com. gotahoe.com could actually trigger the adult content filters. I think they abandoned the domain name. Somebody might be using it now though. I didn't check.

[heavener]

> When I say that MC said that dashes are preferable, I am referring to preferable to underscore

Remember back to your DOS days? Remember that your programming instructor told you to ALWAYS use underscores? My instructor said it's too easy for the OS to inadvertently perceive the hyphen/dash as a minus sign (even if there are no intervening spaces) and crash the command by trying to do the math. Or to perceive it as the designator for an argument, with the same result.

It's a fair guess, since there's some kind of disk/command line interface under every GUI OS, that those archaic instructions are still true.

[Doc]

> When I say that MC said that dashes are preferable, I am referring to preferable to underscore

Remember back to your DOS days? Remember that your programming instructor told you to ALWAYS use underscores? My instructor said it's too easy for the OS to inadvertently perceive the hyphen/dash as a minus sign (even if there are no intervening spaces) and crash the command by trying to do the math. Or to perceive it as the designator for an argument, with the same result.

It's a fair guess, since there's some kind of disk/command line interface under every GUI OS, that those archaic instructions are still true.

A possibility that hadn't occurred to me, heavener, and one that could have some merit.

For instance, www.i-love-3-dog-night.com (http://www.i-love-3-dog-night.com) quite possibly couldn't even be registered. Click on it and see what you get. ;)

Now, try www.i-love-3dognight.com (http://www.i-love-3dognight.com)

Interesting how the SE kills the number in the first example, but not in the second.

[SnerdeyWebs]

Another thing to keep in mind is the confusion control or even hidden works inside the long url without dashes. I'd try and keep the dashes two and under.

[gavinscott]

I have a hyphenated domain name (my-domain.com) which performs well for certain keywords, but is always completely outstripped by the non-hyphenated (mydomain.co.uk) version, which is owned by a friend and competitor of mine. His domain is nearly always #1 in the UK for the query "my domain".

I know that he spends no time or effort on his site; it has been hacked, been down for long periods and until recently the cached version in Google was blank due to use of a framed redirect! He has only 9 backlinks listed in Yahoo. None of this seems to hurt his ranking for the specific phrase, which I can only attribute to the domain name.

[Doc]

I have a hyphenated domain name (my-domain.com) which performs well for certain keywords, but is always completely outstripped by the non-hyphenated (mydomain.co.uk) version, which is owned by a friend and competitor of mine. His domain is nearly always #1 in the UK for the query "my domain".

I know that he spends no time or effort on his site; it has been hacked, been down for long periods and until recently the cached version in Google was blank due to use of a framed redirect! He has only 9 backlinks listed in Yahoo. None of this seems to hurt his ranking for the specific phrase, which I can only attribute to the domain name.

I can understand you reaching that conclusion, Gavin, but I think there may be other reasons. I've seen too many examples of hyphenated URLs that perform well in the SERPs. I don't know what else it might be, off-hand, but I personally doubt it's the hyphens.

[aattwood]

dashes work well for me

[sheena]

Hyphens beat underscores in page names. Straight joined domain names such as thedomain.com beat the-domain.com

[nickoran]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is non-hyphenated domain names can have a potential serious drawback.

mydomainname.com
my-domainname.com
my-domain-name.com
my-do-mainname.com
my-do-main-name.com
my-do-ma-in-name.com
my-do-ma-inn-a-me.com

All of these domains are not created equal to the likes of the SEs. If you want the SEs to give you relevance for my-domainname.com, you'd better use the one with the hyphen in the right place. Otherwise your domain may be seen as a different combination of words than your intended meaning.

A funny one I heard years ago was a tourist site in NV registered gotahoe.com meaning go-tahoe.com but it could be read by the SEs as got-a-hoe.com. gotahoe.com could actually trigger the adult content filters. I think they abandoned the domain name. Somebody might be using it now though. I didn't check.

My favorite site where they use this to thier advantage is Welcome to Pen Island! The best pens on the internet! (http://www.penisland.net/) - its safe for work so dont worry about clicking the link. but definitly highlights the importance of choosing your domain name correctly.

[hotbizsol]

For search engines and visitors, it doesnt make any difference having - in domain name. In fact - helps to improve readability of a domain name. But domain names having -'s dont have much vaue in the domain after market. If you are a domain's trader, its not worth keeping domin names with -

[neat-designer13b]

I have a hyphenated domain name which I chose in preference to an underscore for a different reason: I expect my domain name to appear in print and domain names are often in blue and underscored, to appear as a link (even though on paper!) If you have an underscore, it gets lost in the entire "link" underscore and the non-web savvy will think it is a space! A hyphen is much clearer. It depends on your expected audience I suppose.

[simonm]

Not to forget the clarity that dashes provide.

Powergen, a British company expanded into Italy. They established a new domain

www .powergenitalia ....

perhaps they should have used dashes?

[opinionated1]

thanks for your info - Its well appreciated - I was about to use underscore instead of dashes.

[wwna]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is non-hyphenated domain names can have a potential serious drawback.

A funny one I heard years ago was a tourist site in NV registered gotahoe . com meaning go-tahoe . com but it could be read by the SEs as got-a-hoe . com. gotahoe . com could actually trigger the adult content filters. I think they abandoned the domain name. Somebody might be using it now though. I didn't check.

Why should a common garden tool trigger adult content filters? I've got a hoe in my shed.

[povidiu]

THe dashes has nothing to do wrong with your domain SERP, anyway it will be good to not have too many dashes, this is just my opinion.

[Canonical]

I am a STRONG proponent of using dashes as word separators in the folder name/page name portion of URLs. But at the same time, I NEVER use dashes in domain names. This is one decision between usability and SEO where usability ALWAYS wins...

People are not likely to remember an entire URL containing folder names and page names. If they are going to remember ANY URL for your site it is going to be your home page URL... i.e. your domain name. For this reason you should pick a domain name that:

1) is easy to remember,
2) is as short as possible, and
3) is easy to type.

Placing hyphens in your domain name violates all 3 of these rules.

I would rather have a domain name that is easy to remember and does NOT contain keywords than one that contains 3 keywords I want to rank for like you're suggesting. Having a site named keyword1 dash keyword2 dash keyword3 is ONLY going to help you rank for EXACT match searches for "keyword1keyword2keyword3" or "keyword1 keyword2 keyword3". Other than exact matches, your site is not going to see a noticable boost in rankings from the domain name. A partial match against the domain name has no more noticeable a boost as having that same keyword in a folder name or page name in the URL.

I would go with what is good for your user when picking domains as you want them to be as easy as possible to remember and type.

[gavjof]

I am a STRONG proponent of using dashes as word separators in the folder name/page name portion of URLs. But at the same time, I NEVER use dashes in domain names. This is one decision between usability and SEO where usability ALWAYS wins...

People are not likely to remember an entire URL containing folder names and page names. If they are going to remember ANY URL for your site it is going to be your home page URL... i.e. your domain name. For this reason you should pick a domain name that:

1) is easy to remember,
2) is as short as possible, and
3) is easy to type.

Placing hyphens in your domain name violates all 3 of these rules.

I would rather have a domain name that is easy to remember and does NOT contain keywords than one that contains 3 keywords I want to rank for like you're suggesting. Having a site named keyword1 dash keyword2 dash keyword3 is ONLY going to help you rank for EXACT match searches for "keyword1keyword2keyword3" or "keyword1 keyword2 keyword3". Other than exact matches, your site is not going to see a noticable boost in rankings from the domain name. A partial match against the domain name has no more noticeable a boost as having that same keyword in a folder name or page name in the URL.

I would go with what is good for your user when picking domains as you want them to be as easy as possible to remember and type.
Well put. I've used hyphenated names in the past, for both external marketing purposes and for genuine company names and they can and do work well. But it is best to have companyname for users to see and read instead of company-name. Search engines don't seem to mind long spammy domains but I think they're just ugly. Especially on your business card.

[Webnauts]

In July 2007 Google announced Google that they would going to treat underscores and dashes the same. You think it did not happen yet? Yes, it did.

[Webnauts]

I think MC's answer was fairly clear, that dashes are preferable, but not mandatory.
That was in 2005 Dashes vs. underscores (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/dashes-vs-underscores/) ;)

The times changed Doc. :)

[Doc]

That was in 2005 Dashes vs. underscores (http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/dashes-vs-underscores/) ;)

The times changed Doc. :)

But on March 26 of this year, he made this presentation: YouTube - Should I use underscores or hyphens in URLs? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3SFVfDIS5k&feature=channel).

Near the end he says, "...for the time being, dashes are treated as separators, and underscores are not."

[Webnauts]

But on March 26 of this year, he made this presentation: YouTube - Should I use underscores or hyphens in URLs? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3SFVfDIS5k&feature=channel).

Near the end he says, "...for the time being, dashes are treated as separators, and underscores are not."
That makes sense. I though the discussion here was about with or without dashes, and not about underscores.

[Doc]

That makes sense. I though the discussion here was about with or without dashes, and not about underscores.

Actually, you're right. I think the topic somewhat blended with the other thread (at least in my addled mind.;))
At the end of my post you quoted, I had edited, after realizing that my entry was a little ambiguous, to indicate that I was talking about preference to dashes rather than underscores, as opposed to dashes rather than no dashes.

[wwna]

I've concrete evidence that the answer to the original question is "No".

If you Google "adwords campaign manager" (without the quotation marks), you'll find two entirely different web sites on the first page of results, one with hyphens and the other without hyphens in the domain name.

They are both optimized by the same person, with almost identical <keywords> metatags. The fact that one is a little higher than the other is probably because it contains far more content, rather than because of the absence of hyphens.

[Canonical]

They are both optimized by the same person, with almost identical <keywords> metatags. The fact that one is a little higher than the other is probably because it contains far more content, rather than because of the absence of hyphens.

You don't REALLY think that the <meta> keywords element has ANYTHING to do with SEO do you? Have you seen the new video that caused all of the buzz last week where Matt Cutts states they do NOT use the meta keywords elements in their ranking algorighm, something which anyone doing SEO for any amount of time should already have known? That HTML element has been so abused by spammers, it likely hasn't been looked at by the more sophisticated search engines for the last 5 yrs or more.

And there is NO way you can look at 2 sites in the SERPs even if they were written and/or optimized by the same person and draw any real conclusion about a single ranking factor and its impact on the URLs' rankings. Even though they may look on the surface to be equivalent, there are 200+ ranking factors Google is looking at and there is no way all but that 1 factor (dashes in the URL) are the same.

I know people who have thrown up 50 sites w/ dashes and 50 sites without, developed roughly equivalent content, and optimized them roughly the same and they swear the 50 without the dashes rank better than those with.

I really don't care one way or the other personally because I always avoid using dashes in domain names for the sake of usability. I'm just saying here that a sample size of two sites doesn't definitively or even slightly imply anything. You need many more examples in as controlled an environment as possible to draw conclusions like that.

[FoundByDesign]

Its funny. I see the same questions asked on multiple forums...

In my opinion, using dashes only matters in your marketing. It all depends on who your target visitor is.

Search engines don't care. Its the user that begins to not trust things after a while. So if you are building a website that you intend to do any offline marketing, or plan to want people to remember the site and enter the URL directly in their browsers, you are better off using a smaller domain name, no more than one dash. The likelihood of them remembering the dash themselves gets smaller with each dash, and you may send traffic to another website instead. Also, the more dashes you add, the more "spammy" your website may appear to the website visitor.

If all you plan to do is market using search engines (organic or paid) and your end result is a quick sale on something, dashes won't matter. Many people don't look at the URL that comes up after the search engine has referred them... at that point its is a focus on the content. So your content must be killer.

I ran a mortgage website at EdNailor.com and the header text of the website said "Charlotte Home Loans" rather than my website address on the page. I got calls from people asking me if this was "Charlotte Home Loans" rather than realizing it was my personal mortgage marketing website. They simply saw what the website said and never noticed the URL. Also, the search engines had me ranked on top pages for local mortgage searches, regardless of the "relevancy" of my domain name. After all, what does EdNailor have to do with mortgages?

So again, it depends on your target audience. But it should not have any real impact on your SERPS.

[FoundByDesign]

By the way... thanks for the inspiration.... just completed an article about Why Choosing a Domain Name May Not Matter (http://bit.ly/3iSy72). Hope it helps someone!

[BoothWizard]

Realize that all of the above is opinion, and so I am giving you my opinion also.
For search engines, dashes really don't matter. They don't help. They don't hurt.
For humans, they can look tack or spammy, but probably only to the web-savvy, which is the minority.
I think the domain name is much more important than whether or not is has dashes.
but-thats-just-my-opinion. :)

[BoBoMisiu]

Dashes can help a human read a long domain name.
Every child in school learns to read word-by-word.
I think our brains are trained to associate words we see in a domain with what we have seen before.
I think long domain names with dashes are more memorable.

[FoundByDesign]

...but-thats-just-my-opinion. :)
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/dcamp2626/ROFL1.gif I LOVE IT!

[wwna]

Its funny. I see the same questions asked on multiple forums...

In my opinion, using dashes only matters in your marketing. It all depends on who your target visitor is.

Search engines don't care. Its the user that begins to not trust things after a while. So if you are building a website that you intend to do any offline marketing, or plan to want people to remember the site and enter the URL directly in their browsers, you are better off using a smaller domain name, no more than one dash. The likelihood of them remembering the dash themselves gets smaller with each dash, and you may send traffic to another website instead. Also, the more dashes you add, the more "spammy" your website may appear to the website visitor.

If all you plan to do is market using search engines (organic or paid) and your end result is a quick sale on something, dashes won't matter. Many people don't look at the URL that comes up after the search engine has referred them... at that point its is a focus on the content. So your content must be killer.

I ran a mortgage website at EdNailor . com and the header text of the website said "Charlotte Home Loans" rather than my website address on the page. I got calls from people asking me if this was "Charlotte Home Loans" rather than realizing it was my personal mortgage marketing website. They simply saw what the website said and never noticed the URL. Also, the search engines had me ranked on top pages for local mortgage searches, regardless of the "relevancy" of my domain name. After all, what does EdNailor have to do with mortgages?

So again, it depends on your target audience. But it should not have any real impact on your SERPS.

Now there's an intelligent and insightful observation, and very well put. That just about says it all.

[tonycsm]

Hi - this is my first post though I have read posts for quite a while.
I'm not a pro although I have been building basic web sites for a few years for my businesses and have a reasonable amount of experience in SEO.
I've read most of the posts in the thread and it seems to me, many are bogged down in protocols which actually have little or no bearing on how a page comes up in SERPs.
The most important factor from my experience in getting pages up on the first page of a search is 'content' together with relevance!
Whether a domain name has a hyphen or hyphens in the url is largely irrelevant - the page doesn't even need to be a top tier domain page - it can be a sub domain page such as from sites like the old Tripod and the likes and it can still come up top of the SERPs providing the content and headings are there.

There is more to a web site than just the home page - each page should generate it's own unique relevance to a search and key wording/phrasing in the url together with appropriate content is by far the best way to ensure that it appears high in the SERPs and attracts potential clients. Professional looking web pages or domain names mean nothing to search engines unless their content is relevant to the search in hand so, hyphens or underscores in a url will not harm a well written web page.

Just my take on it!

[JBullet]

I've not found them to hurt SERPs.