Age hurdle

[Steven1976a]

I believe that old domains which are constantly updated with either new products or new information have an advantage over new domains in terms of high ranking. Are we agreed? I think it is a good way of filtering through serious websites/companies so that every tom, dick and harry who has a good idea doesnt make a website today and its straight to the top of the list tomorrow. I think anyone serious about doing an online biz should be in it for the long run.

Now, being on the other side of the fence, we started a new website about 12 months ago and its struggling! I believe this is an age factor.

So my question is, if you believe also that the age factor is a big ranking factor, then how long does a domain have to be in operation before it gets over this hurdle?

[morestar]

I believe that old domains which are constantly updated with either new products or new information have an advantage over new domains in terms of high ranking. Are we agreed? I think it is a good way of filtering through serious websites/companies so that every tom, dick and harry who has a good idea doesnt make a website today and its straight to the top of the list tomorrow. I think anyone serious about doing an online biz should be in it for the long run.

Now, being on the other side of the fence, we started a new website about 12 months ago and its struggling! I believe this is an age factor.

So my question is, if you believe also that the age factor is a big ranking factor, then how long does a domain have to be in operation before it gets over this hurdle?

well I've heard both sides of the story with this. Some say age matters some say it doesn't.

Maybe where age comes into play is in such factors that age has contributed to such as the amount of links towards the site that have been built up.

If you were to ask me for a definitive answer I would say age matters only a slight and should never be considered the reason your SEO efforts aren't producing the results you're hoping for. There are a myriad other reasons this is so...

P.S. I love Fergie...and Kanye West is a Jack-ass.

:D

[ncseo]

it's not just the 'age factor' of domain creation

it's also the age factor of when site was first indexed....and i believe the biggest part to SEO is the age of links which I don't see how can be manipulated

If you do buy a domain..make sure it was indexed about the same time..and make sure it has links that were pointing to it years ago.


to answer your question.....there are many factors

exact match domains rank rather easily even if they are brand new

new domains with authoritative backlinks can outrank an old domain

New domains with proper SEO (title tags) can outrank an old domain that doesnt have proper SEO

[claybutler]

I've seen from experience that age in itself is not really an issue. It's all the other stuff that comes with an aged site that you just take for grated. Like the tons of inbound links you get overtime just from bots and scrapers adding you to directories.

For any new domain I've seen that even one good keyword rich link from a high PR (3+) page can have a huge impact. Throw in three or four of these types of links and, depending on the keyword competitiveness of your your business, you can do very well in the SERP's right out of the gate. Perhaps even dominate if it's a niche market or your competitors are doing a piss poor job with their own websites.

[chrisJumbo]

I would agree that with Age more links usually come with it. And certainly more authorative ones. Don't let age be an excuse. Just keep up the link building.

I've seen some very new sites dominate even competitive niches because they were able to get some good authorative links.

[Weedy Lady]

I've designed 3 web sites for 3 local non profit organizations and in both cases the sites were on page one of Google results about 10 days after they went on line.

Not for every possible keyword..............but for what I think are pertinent key words. High ranking for other key words hopefully will come over time.

And when it came to choosing key words I picked the ones I thought were important because I'm a local citizen and know what I would type in to look for the type of organization. I also asked the staff of each organization to try to think like a client (not like the staff person he or she is) and send me a list of all the key words they could think of. Between my list and their lists it worked out pretty well.

The actual point of this ramble is that NO there is no sandbox for brand new sites per se. Not when one little old lady can get results like the above.

[deepsand]

Per Goggle's patent(s) age is a factor; but, how heavily weighted such is is a well guarded secret.

A similar, but different, factor mentioned in said patent(s) that is of greater import is how long the current Registration period.

Taken together, the longer a site has existed, and the longer its current registration period, the more confident one can be that the owner/operator is in for the long haul, and the more favorably it will be viewed by Google.

[Steven1976a]

thanks for the replies. There seems some merit in believing that the links that an old site has developed is the reason why an old site ranks better than a new site. I thought that old links the search engines ignored them and actually it was new fresh links they were always looking for?

[Doc]

One would hope (although perhaps in vain) that while longevity would be taken into consideration for a site's staying power, that the algos also take into consideration, with sufficient weight, the updating of the site, over a protracted period. Certainly, Google has said that these all enter into their equations, but who can say what carries a higher weighting?

At the same time, it obviously wouldn't be "fair", for a brand new site to be relegated to the "also ran" category, regardless of it's importance.

I cannot even begin to imagine the complexity of the Google algos! Without any expectations of perfection, it still boggles the imagination. :neutral:

[deepsand]

thanks for the replies. There seems some merit in believing that the links that an old site has developed is the reason why an old site ranks better than a new site. I thought that old links the search engines ignored them and actually it was new fresh links they were always looking for?
"Staying power" is a factor in determining "authority," as is the total number and stability of IBLs. A site that's been around for a while, has accumulated a large no. of stable & long lasting IBLs, is the more likely to be deemed an authoritative site, which will serve to increase its SERP rank.

On the other hand, a site of any age isn't going to benefit as greatly as it otherwise might from new IBLs if there's a lot of churn. E.g., assuming all IBLs involved pass the same PR, a site that has & keeps 4 IBLS and gains 2 will be better off than one that has 4, loses 1 & gains 3.

[astro]

For my 10 cents worth, I do believe age and page count matters, more pages = more information providing there is genuine content on those pages. Not link farms.

But I seldom see what the web designers classify as a "Standard" 5 page web site ranked up there for long! "Standard" ?????? Methinks most designers are aware you get your client on a price fix, then the client adds the extra pages as they start to understand the concept that 5 pages are seldom enough!

I am not toally convinced expiry dates count for much, not logical, as every domain name reaches that sooner or later! I think it is a fair bet if your web site has been around for a few years and content is changed or pages updated on a regular basis, expiry dates count for very little.

I have seen duplicate content being blamed for poor search results.......... that has been blown apart now!

(This will set the cat amongst the pigeons) Not totally convinced anymore by IBL's especially forum/blog results, these are fast becoming too manipulated and distorting relevent results. It is always a mistake to underestimate Google.

Me? I find ignore all help and advice and provide a smart, interesting, well presented and informative web site packed full of help, advice, customer feedback and participation.......and you will get to page one! Costner's well worn phrase applies here!

Astro

[nickoran]

New sites certainly do have to climb up the rankings, they dont tend to just go from position 3million to number 1 over night. the question of age could be relevant to how far its got to climb and the competition. its seems very hard to gather any evidence of the age or sandbox factor, but on a personal level i have seen sites climb up the rankings very quickly and others not, seeing as some climb very quickly im more inclined to believe that there isnt an age factor tat would actually hinder a good seo'd site. but.... ive been wrong before! lol

[vit]

It is simple. The age should matter and unfortunately for new sites matters a lot. Web crawlers when creeping through the link graph use randomization to pick up the link to get into and go further. So the older the website the higher probability to pick it up in the graph depth and index it in the search engine.
So when you place the link to a less popular but older site there is a chance that it works better for your visibility. None of the ranking models is perfect and this fact works for you.

[SteveGerencser]

I've seen from experience that age in itself is not really an issue. It's all the other stuff that comes with an aged site that you just take for grated. Like the tons of inbound links you get overtime just from bots and scrapers adding you to directories.

Ding ding ding.. We have a winner!!!

And just because someone has a patent on something doesn't mean that they actually use it, just that they have a patent on it..

[deepsand]

I am not toally convinced expiry dates count for much, not logical, as every domain name reaches that sooner or later!
The metric is not the Expiry Date, but the length of Renewal Period; i.e., a 5 yr. renewal demonstrates a greater commitment to the future than does a 1 yr. one.

[janeth]

A similar, but different, factor mentioned in said patent(s) that is of greater import is how long the current Registration period.


Any proof?

Why do you think that this is more important?

[janeth]

The metric is not the Expiry Date, but the length of Renewal Period; i.e., a 5 yr. renewal demonstrates a greater commitment to the future than does a 1 yr. one.

Do you have any proof that Google looks at how long you register the name for?

[deepsand]

Per Google's patent,

"Certain signals may be used to distinguish between illegitimate and legitimate domains. For example, domains can be renewed up to a period of 10 years. Valuable (legitimate) domains are often paid for several years in advance, while doorway (illegitimate) domains rarely are used for more than a year. Therefore, the date when a domain expires in the future can be used as a factor in predicting the legitimacy of a domain and, thus, the documents associated therewith."

[janeth]

Per Google's patent,

"Certain signals may be used to distinguish between illegitimate and legitimate domains. For example, domains can be renewed up to a period of 10 years. Valuable (legitimate) domains are often paid for several years in advance, while doorway (illegitimate) domains rarely are used for more than a year. Therefore, the date when a domain expires in the future can be used as a factor in predicting the legitimacy of a domain and, thus, the documents associated therewith."

Thanks, however, isn't it true that Google often get's patents on things they never do anything with?

How do we know this is not one of those cases?

[deepsand]

That's quite often the case with many patents. And, with regards to this particular point, Matt Cutts has made his usual vague and deflecting statements.

That does not, however, mean that one should conclude to the contrary; the logical conclusion would be to at the least allow for its being so. Not only is such exceedingly easy for Google to implement, but, for the site owner/operator, there is no downside to having long registration terms, and there are several benefits unrelated to Google's SERP algorithm.

[janeth]

That's quite often the case with many patents. And, with regards to this particular point, Matt Cutts has made his usual vague and deflecting statements.

That does not, however, mean that one should conclude to the contrary; the logical conclusion would be to at the least allow for its being so. Not only is such exceedingly easy for Google to implement, but, for the site owner/operator, there is no downside to having long registration terms, and there are several benefits unrelated to Google's SERP algorithm.

You are correct and I will be increasing my sites registration terms.

Thanks

[deepsand]

My pleasure.

For those who may be uncertain re. the benefits of long term DN registrations, such include:


Lower cost/year
Convenience
Reduced risk of losing DN due to expiration
Public demonstration of commitment

[dburdon]

Age does count but perhaps because of the nature of older content and older backlinks having more authority of more recent content and backlinks. I'm not sure that the domain registration makes much difference. You can register a dot.com for 10 years. But a dot.co.uk can only be registered for a maximum of two years at a time. Dot.co.uk's do ok despite this limit.

[deepsand]

Under Google's patent age of resource and length of registration are complementary factors; i.e., an old resource registered for the max. term signals a continued commitment to its being extant for the foreseeable future.

As for the max. available registration terms varying by TLD, that's easily handled by using a relative measure rather than an absolute one, and weighting such factor appropriately.

[cg0404]

I believe it takes time to build in the Rankings and keep that relative position. Quality Updated Content, Quality Links and Quality Marketing are what is going to help you build a position. The Age of the Domain will have no bearing, you can have sites out there for years that really have never amounted to much and you have new sites that really make an impact.

[Doc]

I believe it takes time to build in the Rankings and keep that relative position. Quality Updated Content, Quality Links and Quality Marketing are what is going to help you build a position. The Age of the Domain will have no bearing, you can have sites out there for years that really have never amounted to much and you have new sites that really make an impact.

But with the hundreds of elements that enter into the Google algorithm, the fact that an old, valueless site is still around, does give it some value, just by virtue of its longevity. The fact that it takes time to build in the rankings really doesn't have any bearing on the validity of its age as one of the factors of its ranking.

[deepsand]

The Age of the Domain will have no bearing, you can have sites out there for years that really have never amounted to much and you have new sites that really make an impact.
That one observes no direct proportional correlation between two variables does not serve to prove the absence of a causal relationship.

In multi-variant systems, such as the SERP Rank algorithm, it is generally the case that such relationships are discovered, not by casual observation, but only by way of rigorous and robust testing.

Therefore, to say that a given input variable, such as Age, has a null effect, is speculative.

[Canonical]

There are MANY ranking factors being considered by the search engines... Age is just one of them. Does it have an impact? Likely so... Is the impact of that ONE ranking factor very noticeable? probably not as it is with "most" ranking factors when considered alone.

I agree with several of the previous posters that the main advantage of an old domain is the fact that it has had time to accumulate more inbound links... It's those links that carry far more weight than the age of the domain itself.

There are very few ranking factors other than those related to inbound links and the <title> of the page that when taken alone have a noticeable impact on rankings. Generally speaking, it's the sum total of lots of optimizations (i.e. influencing lots of ranking factors) that when taken as a whole will move the ranking needle... NOT any one thing.

[midnightshow22]

I personally believe age is a factor. It's hard to tell how much it counts though. I wouldn't imagine much but it has to do with authority.

[deepsand]

I personally believe age is a factor. It's hard to tell how much it counts though. I wouldn't imagine much but it has to do with authority.
Per Google's patent,

"Certain signals may be used to distinguish between illegitimate and legitimate domains. For example, domains can be renewed up to a period of 10 years. Valuable (legitimate) domains are often paid for several years in advance, while doorway (illegitimate) domains rarely are used for more than a year. Therefore, the date when a domain expires in the future can be used as a factor in predicting the legitimacy of a domain and, thus, the documents associated therewith."

Authority and legitimacy are two quite different things.