Possible to own .CA domain living in USA?

[keyon]

Does anyone know the specific rules for registering/owning a .CA (canada) domain? Do you only need one contact (admin, billing, etc.) with physical address in Canada, or does the registrant have to also live there?

[Dubbya]

The regulations stipulate that, in order to register a .ca domain, you must establish a presence in Canada.

There is good news though! Evidently, "establishing a presence" is subject to interpretation.

Here's a PDF that outlines the requirements:
http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf

Note the reference to "Legal Representative".

You'll find the rest of the documents you might require here:
CIRA - Canadian Internet Registration Authority - Registrant (http://www.cira.ca/registrant-documents/)

This seems like it might solve your problem. For a nominal fee, these guys can help you satisfy the "presence" requirements. (There may be other hosts who can help you similarly)
Canadian domain name registration - Canada - Calgary & Edmonton, Alberta (http://www.domainsunder.ca/canadian_presence.php)

Might be a good time to do some Googling...

Good Luck.

[cw1865]

I took a couple of .eu domains which I wanted simply by putting in a European address. If it were to go anywhere (which it isn't), I'd need a presence there. So far, nobody has challenged it, but in theory if a check is done, I'm sure they could pull the names from me....

[keyon]

Thanks......dubbya and cw1865

Let me know if you think of any other issues/problems I might run into operating a .CA domain from the USA. The site in question would be a gateway of sorts - linking back to my main website - which I operate here in the states.

thanks

[cw1865]

Well, be careful, its one thing to own the name and its another to put time and effort into it and then have the name pulled.....all it can take is one Canadian based competitor to realize you're not really in Canada and poof, up in smoke....

[keyon]

all it can take is one Canadian based competitor to realize you're not really in Canada

CW1865 -
What do you think of the registrar service companies that provide a legal Canadian presence for you (for a fee of course). Do you think this is reliable?

[Dubbya]

Well, be careful, its one thing to own the name and its another to put time and effort into it and then have the name pulled.....all it can take is one Canadian based competitor to realize you're not really in Canada and poof, up in smoke....

Yeah, we're nasty that way... Lulz

[cw1865]

CW1865 -
What do you think of the registrar service companies that provide a legal Canadian presence for you (for a fee of course). Do you think this is reliable?

Not sure. It seems to me that as a US citizen/resident, you would not be entitled to claim a .ca domain name, but that doesn't mean you cannot actually open a business in Canada (follow Canadian rules/laws on that one). The business itself would be 'Canadian' (even though you are not) and you'd probably be required to have some sort of 'registered agent' which would most likely be one of these 'presence' companies and at that point the Canadian business WOULD be entitled to claim a .ca name.

Essentially though you'd probably have to go 'all in' though because right now you probably have a US based merchant account that charges cards in US dollars. If you make a Canadian sale, and use that merchant account, they're going to think its funny that the sale from a .ca website was on their statement as 'US Dollars converted to Canadian dollars'

If this project isn't commerce based (let's just say its some kind of informational blog or something), your suggestion will probably be sufficient because nobody would even think of challenging it.

But be careful, I just don't want to see you put time, money and effort into something that only gets pulled out from under you.....

[keyon]

they're going to think its funny that the sale from a .ca website was on their statement as 'US Dollars converted to Canadian dollars

I'm not really planning to have sales take place on the .ca site itself (no shopping cart there). Everything would link over to my .com site where my shopping cart is located. So in effect, I guess the .ca site would be an informational site serving as an affiliate to my .com site.

Does that make sense? Not sure if this has any bearing on my risk in regard to owning the domain.

thanks for your help

[cw1865]

OK, I understand. The question would wind up being whether owning that .ca domain name, which by definition is an assertion that you are present in Canada, would qualify as 'minimum contacts' {<--which is a US legal concept} for purposes of Canadian provincial/federal taxation.

You could be opening up a whole can of worms on that one.

Check out the Amazon case in NY where NY is levying NY state sales tax on Amazon's sales generated from NY based affiliates. Now that is certainely in the US, and Canada is its own sovereign nation; so maybe its different, maybe its not.

5 years from now, somebody in some bureacratic office somewhere could get the bright idea that every single one of your Canadian sales is subject to Canadian taxation including income tax and GST/PST - PLUS interest, PLUS penalties.

So, be very careful saying that you exist somewhere because the natural consequence is that somebody who is actually there might actually agree with you.

[cw1865]

I checked it out really quick and the 'minimum contacts' concept is known as a 'real and substantial connection' in Canada.

Overview of Jurisdiction -- Canadian Perspective (http://www.kentlaw.edu/cyberlaw/docs/rfc/canadaview.html)

"Real and Substantial Connection"
The "real and substantial connection" requirement is based on the long-established Canadian legal principle of order and fairness, and plays a role similar to the "minimum contacts" test in United States law.(8) (http://www.kentlaw.edu/cyberlaw/docs/rfc/docs/rfc/canadaview.html#N_8_) The leading Supreme Court of Canada case on the doctrine, Morguard Investments,(9) (http://www.kentlaw.edu/cyberlaw/docs/rfc/docs/rfc/canadaview.html#N_9_) was interpreted by the Supreme Court in a later case, Hunt, not to be "a rigid test" but rather one "intended to capture the idea that there must be some limits on the claims to jurisdiction".(10) (http://www.kentlaw.edu/cyberlaw/docs/rfc/docs/rfc/canadaview.html#N_10_) LaForest J. in Hunt remarked on the need for "greater comity in our modern era when international transactions involve a constant flow of products, wealth and people across the globe". He further prescribed that "jurisdiction must ultimately be guided by the requirements of order and fairness, not a mechanical counting of contacts or connections".(11) (http://www.kentlaw.edu/cyberlaw/docs/rfc/docs/rfc/canadaview.html#N_11_)

CIRA - Canadian Internet Registration Authority - FAQ: Canadian Presence Requirements (http://www.cira.ca/faq-canadian-presence-requirements/)

To register a .ca you need a 'canadian presence' which, it would seem, would subject you to Canadian taxation. You'd essentially be in a difficult position to argue otherwise, you would have to admit that you have a Canadian presence, or you would have to deny it which would essentially be admitting to a fraud.

[keyon]

CW1865 - thanks for digging this stuff up!

Sounds complicated and tricky. And you're probably right that my concern should be with what might happen down the road a few years.

I read up a little on the Amazon/NY ruling. Wow. How in the world is that going to work? A retailer located outside of NY will be have to identify sales that come in from affiliates located in NY - and then somehow bring up the appropriate sales tax for those specific orders?

And as far as knowing where an affiliate is "located" - I guess this is the info recorded at the domain registrar.

Hmmm...this is actually starting to make some sense now.

[cw1865]

And what makes it worse is that NY has one of the trickiest sales tax laws in the country. There is a base state sales tax rate (normal), but the county can apply its own rate ON TOP of the base rate, so Westchester can have a different rate from say, Suffolk. BUT, to compound that, individual municipalities can impose AN ADDITIONAL rate over and above the county. Hence, White Plains, NY can be different from New Rochelle, NY (both in Westchester County), Manhattan (New York County) different from Suffolk {and in point of fact, there ARE actual differences, not just in theory}....its absolutely baffling and its a taxation regime that is really inconsistent with an intra-state economy much less an interstate economy.

[ronchalice]

Besides getting the domain pulled, you don't want to end up in jail for fraud...


And what makes it worse is that NY has one of the trickiest sales tax laws in the country. There is a base state sales tax rate (normal), but the county can apply its own rate ON TOP of the base rate, so Westchester can have a different rate from say, Suffolk. BUT, to compound that, individual municipalities can impose AN ADDITIONAL rate over and above the county. Hence, White Plains, NY can be different from New Rochelle, NY (both in Westchester County), Manhattan (New York County) different from Suffolk {and in point of fact, there ARE actual differences, not just in theory}....its absolutely baffling and its a taxation regime that is really inconsistent with an intra-state economy much less an interstate economy.

Colorado is fun, we not only have state, and local taxes, but have several sales tax Districts (Stadium District, Transportation District, Cultural Facilities District, etc.) as well, all with different boundaries and different tax rates. Luckily we don't have county sales taxes --- yet. Fortunately the district taxes don't play much into on-line transactions, if at all, but it is certainly a challenge with multi-store brick and mortars.

[keyon]

Besides getting the domain pulled, you don't want to end up in jail for fraud...

Really? Is it that risky?
You're making me think this whole idea is a bad one to begin with (trying to own a .CA domain from the US.

[deepsand]

There is good news though! Evidently, "establishing a presence" is subject to interpretation.
Good news, indeed.

Why, just think of the business opportunity that lies before you - that of acting as a "registered agent" for non-Canadians.


$$$$

PS - My finder's fee will be reasonable. ;)

[Tarzan2]

Good news, indeed.

Why, just think of the business opportunity that lies before you - that of acting as a "registered agent" for non-Canadians.


$$$$

PS - My finder's fee will be reasonable. ;)

LOL... yeah... I was going to say that if there is enough incentive, I might be interested in collecting and submitting the taxes, keeping a portion of the sale and forwarding the rest. I guess it would be like a local distributor of a forein product. After all... most of what we sell comes from outside Canada.

As for you getting your own .ca domain name... I think it would be a bad idea. Canadians don't care too much whether the site has a .ca or .com extension. Google sees .com as country neutral, so it won't matter there either. I don't really see any advantage, but I can certainly see a lot of problems!

As for sending traffic from your canadian domain to your US domain... guess what? Your prices will be in US$, right? So everyone knows you are in the US! In order to make it work, you would need a complete site under the canadian domain that also processes payment in CA$, submits taxes, etc. Otherwise, move forward 3 spaces and go to jail.

[deepsand]

LOL... yeah... I was going to say that if there is enough incentive, ...
It was an inside (or, outside, depending on your view) joke intended soley for Dubbya.

Perhaps it will make sense if you join us at http://www.webproworld.com/breakroom-general-any-topic/60802-new-game-new-post.html . ;)

[Tarzan2]

It was an inside (or, outside, depending on your view) joke intended soley for Dubbya.

Perhaps it will make sense if you join us at http://www.webproworld.com/breakroom-general-any-topic/60802-new-game-new-post.html . ;)


You mean

1747 How come Dubbya gets all the really great offers?

1748

[deepsand]

I think you've got it. :)

[cw1865]

Really? Is it that risky?
You're making me think this whole idea is a bad one to begin with (trying to own a .CA domain from the US.

They're not going to put you in jail just for owning the domain, but tax evasion? possibly, though most likely a hefty fine.