Client wants me to buy him links? What should i do?

[inertia]

One of my clients has a 6 month old site which sells office chairs. He wants to be number one for... office chairs! and isn't really bothered about much else. He doesn't pay a huge amount for SEO, so he doesn't get much work/time from me and getting him a top ten will take a long long time. Even longer when you consider that he's not prepared to give me anything with regards to content and input. He's one of them "I'm paying you to do it, now I don't have to do anything" sort of guys.

The other day he came in and told me that a mate in the pub who sells some other generic product over the internet told him that his SEO buys links and he's doing really well. Now my client wants me to procure him some paid links! My immediate reaction was no and I quickly told him about reputation, Google guidelines, longevity and such. But! He's adamant and we may loose him if we dont.

I used to work for an SEO company that purchased all their links from a company in India. Worked really well for most clients but when that company was spotted by Google all the positions dropped and the lack of natural links meant the sites suffered badly.

I'm aware that as far as our reputation and credibility as an online marketing company goes we should be sticking to Google guidelines but my boss is big on client retention and he doesnt want to loose him. I think its worth noting that i have only worked as an SEO at my current place for the last few months so I've had no impact on this clients education so far.

Any advice brethren and sistren? What would you do? I've drawn up a disclaimer but thats about as far as ive got.

[kevsta]

One of my clients has a 6 month old site which sells office chairs. He wants to be number one for... office chairs! and isn't really bothered about much else.

lol. nightmare. :roll: if hes not worth much to you and is no help i'd fire him personally.

tell him to go buy his links from his mates source and dont come bothering me when his site slumps back to the depths again when G find and cancel all the links he bought.

i've always found that showing them that youre willing to walk away rather than the other way round focuses the issue.

to be fair he'll probably get away with it for a good while anyway, but its always your call if you want to get involved.

[inertia]

Unfortunately im not the "top of the tree" in the company and Im in no position to tell him to go elsewhere. If it was me id get rid of him and try and find a client who's more proactive.

[kevsta]

so what do you want to know from here then, where to buy them safely? :)

[inertia]

Well, yeah i suppose! I know there is good link buying and bad link buying and i should probably do it in house to ensure quality. But i dont have the time for this. So what would you do in my situation?

[crankydave]

As I see it...

Price your services to them for what you need to do. ie... Writing content/getting it written. Hours billed etc. They either want to pay for what needs to be done or they don't. That choice is theirs.

Now about "buying links"... First part of this decision is yours. If you're not comfortable doing it, don't and explain why. If doing it doesn't bother you, make sure your client is very clearly aware of all the risks involved and allow them to make the choice. Their website, their money, their risk, their choice. Also be sure you are comfortable with the risks and potential risks you would be assuming as well.

As an alternative, you might discuss/suggest buying advertising with your client.

NOTE: My comments ARE NOT an endorsement for selling/buying links.

Dave

[inertia]

As I see it...

Price your services to them for what you need to do. ie... Writing content/getting it written. Hours billed etc. They either want to pay for what needs to be done or they don't. That choice is theirs.

Now about "buying links"... First part of this decision is yours. If you're not comfortable doing it, don't and explain why. If doing it doesn't bother you, make sure your client is very clearly aware of all the risks involved and allow them to make the choice. Their website, their money, their risk, their choice. Also be sure you are comfortable with the risks and potential risks you would be assuming as well.

As an alternative, you might discuss/suggest buying advertising with your client.

NOTE: My comments ARE NOT an endorsement for selling/buying links.

Dave

As mentioned above, im not the boss and i wasn't here when the SEO package was arranged so i kind of have to deal with it. If this was a brand new client i would be advising that he pay for more from us. But! Hay ho there u go!

I've drawn up a thorough disclaimer which outlines all the isssues and puts all responsibility for the decision on the client but i am worried about my reputation as an SEO in the future and the reputation of my employer. Hhhhm. Still a bit undecided about this one. The boss is up for it but he knows little to nothing about SEO and is fully client focussed.

If i do decide to buy links for this client then i will make sure that i dont use unscrupulous sources and buy relevant, quality links. I will also make sure that natural/alternative link building carries on. Should i even be saying this on a forum like WPW? PARANOIAAAH!

[crankydave]

I've drawn up a thorough disclaimer which outlines all the isssues and puts all responsibility for the decision on the client but i am worried about my reputation as an SEO in the future and the reputation of my employer. Hhhhm. Still a bit undecided about this one. The boss is up for it but he knows little to nothing about SEO and is fully client focussed.

Then you should be making them aware of all the risks and potential risks involved as well. Your boss/employer should be perfectly aware of these things otherwise they are not making informed decisions on behalf of the company and their clients.

Again, their company, their risks, their money and their choice. Personally, anyone in the position of making decisions on behalf of the company and especially clients should be absolutely aware of the potential risks they are taking. Ignorance of the risks is no excuse IMO. Any employer or employee who chooses to bury their head in the sand or play the "three monkeys" when it comes to things that can detrimentally affect the livelyhood of others are ones I would have to question.

As an employer, I need to know. As an employee I should be expected to bring things to light. As a client, I should expect and demand to know.

After all is said and done, it is your choice to make as well.

Dave

[jimkelly7777]

Find a competitor you really hate and refer this client to him.

[staker2]

Hi There:

I am by no means an expert but I do have a suggestion for managing the client.

Some companies that sell more transient products (such as e-books, satellite cards, etc.) benefit from buying links because they change websites more than an athlete changes their socks.

Someone selling a hard good like office chairs who has a permanent URL that they want to build up over time is not going to benefit from these methods at all, in fact they will penalize his site.

I would print out anything from Google's site or Matt Cutt's blog that you can find about how paid links are penalized, and make sure that he understands that it will cost him more to get him out of trouble with Google than it will to just not do the paid links thing early on. Do up a quote for getting him out of shite with Google as well as the quote for the paid links, and let him decide. That way if he comes back screaming later, he has the quote in hand (which I would put an expiry date like 6 months or so on) for you to do more work. I hate to say it but would guarantee repeat business lol.

You should also talk to your boss, an SEO firm should not use Google-banned methods regardless of whether or not a client is demanding them. Word gets around on this weird little thing called the internet, somehow.

Cheers,

Angela

[AussieDomainer]

Buy some RELEVANT links from a Linkbroker, rather than the any old Link will do style from some "Pay by the Thousand links" BlackHAT SEO Merchant"

A Couple of GOod Solid links from related Sites will be worth the money.

[ArthurNYC]

Wait a second, while we know Google may spank you (or him) for this, they may not and it may work out for him. With that said ... cover your a-s. Write him an email with what you discussed and get him to respond that he wants you to move forward anyway.

This way ... when/if you get whacked ... you told him so.

Good Luck!

[marcel]

Relevant links within quality content will expose your client to his target market. Instead of buying links get him to develop quality content and give it away to other sites.

And don't let him abuse keywords...

[Ed.]

It seems that this consultant has forgotten a basic fact, he/she is being paid for advice. As with any other product it is the buyer who foots the bill and has the option of using or wasting the advice that he now owns.

The consultant has a responsibility to ensure that he provides the best available advice, but it is only advice, he is not the decision maker and throwing his toys out of the pram when his advice is not acted upon is not professional, and borders on childishness!

[deepsand]

Unfortunately im not the "top of the tree" in the company and Im in no position to tell him to go elsewhere. If it was me id get rid of him and try and find a client who's more proactive.
CYOA with a letter & e-mail to him advising of the possible consequences of his course of action, and that your firm accepts no liability for such.

[Big Juice]

You should be obtaining links from many different sources and methods including paid. You can not rely on just one way of getting links or your client site may suffer during an upcoming dance.

[chowell]

There's a whole lot of talking about paid links in here, but it seems most of the conversation is centered around this being the only SEO work being done for the client.

I wouldn't suggest sponsored links as a sole strategy, nor as your bread 'n butter of the campaign, but supplementing a new site with a few good "sponsored" links isn't all that bad in my opinion.

All big sites do advertising on the Internet and get away with it as "advertising/sponsoring", despite whatever motives might be behind the strategy. If they can do it, why can't the little guy?

If I were you, I wouldn't spend so much time worrying about purchasing the links, as I would continuing to build on the other aspects of the SEO campaign. Of course, if links aren't in line w/ your belief system, you might be in the wrong industry...

[a53mp]

Doesn't matter. You gave him your professional advice and the client is fully aware of the risks. In the end the client is ALWAYS right, and you do what the client wants.

If you feel that strongly about it, have the client sign a waiver stating that any implications from said actions are the responsibility of the client, and they are fully aware of the risks.

If your company feels that strongly about using those kind of tactics, they should drop the client.. but also realize that it may cause negative feedback for future clients.

[janeth]

As long as he understands the risk involved, I don’t see the big deal. Lots and lots of people buy advertising space online, and most do not nofollow the links.

I’ve got a friend that bought advertising space, got the boost in ranking and enough qualified traffic from the banner ad that he was able to cut back on his AdSense. Google is not the only game in town and limiting your client’s abilities to advertising because of Google’s rules hurts everyone.

And it’s important to read and understand what Google says.


Q: Is that why we've seen some sites that sell links receive lower PageRank in the Google toolbar?

A: Yes. If a site is selling links, that can affect our opinion about the value of that site or cause us to lose trust in that site.

As long as you’re not jumping up and down trying to get Google’s attention so you can give them the bird chances are very good that the worst that would happen is the links you bought loosing the juice. At best you’ll get some traffic and a ranking boost.

I've not studied it, so you would really need to do lots of research on what Google has said and what other webmasters (not SEO's) have seen.

Although I'd imagine this topic might get a little hot after this post.

But that's my two cents.

[David Pearson]

Forget the client .... they come and go ... it is your boss I worry about ...

You have said that your boss, "knows little to nothing about SEO" ... so he has hired you as his SEO expert, but won't listen to you .... and won't back you up ....

Sit you boss down, explain to him the consequences .... let him make the decision about how to handle the situation .... after all that is what bosses are for .... if he makes a bad decision in this case, beware, because there will be more in the future .... and start looking for another job, or look to setting up your own business, where you get to make the decisions. Alternatively, if your boss makes a good decision, pat him on the ego, and tell him you love working for such a wise man.

[blogdawg1]

Lets not forget that the are all kinds of different paid links out there. Some are very legitimate and some are what Google is targeting. There are all kinds of link building opportunities where money exchanges hands -- perhaps you just need to guide the client towards good links and away from cheap, spammy, purchased links?

[Danimal]

I agree with blogdawg! In fact I might know somewhere where you can get some really good, high PR links. They work like a polish builder..... but unlike a polski...they not cheap!!!

[puamana]

Since the to buy/not to buy decision is not really yours to make, but your employer's, I have the employer draft an agreement for the client to sign stating that you'll purchase links at his direction, but if the result is a net loss in ranking or penalization by google, you can't be held liable in any way, since you recommended against this course of action.

CYA... mainly.
With clients who THINK they know it all, sometimes it's best to let them blunder on until they learn to listen to better, more experienced heads.

- Puamana

[rajeshchand]

Your problem is understood...there is nothing much you can do when a client is just not bothered about your advice and wants to get through with something that he thinks is right

Only option, mention it clearly in the disclaimer...and make him understand....maybe he will before he signs the dotted line of the disclaimer....but at the end of it all....CUSTOMER IS KING

If he is not there....we wouldn't have been here discussing this i suppose

[sunbedkid]

I agree with an earlier poster, that you need lots of different types of link building techniques to use when promoting a website.

I would also like to add that it depends on the clients budget, as good quality paid links can cost 'a fortune'. If your clients friend is getting paid links by the dozen, then I can only assume they are low quality, which is OK but should not be their only source of incoming links, as they cannot be guarranteed to last.

IMO Google discounts links from websites for a number of reasons, not just if they have been paid for. So, you can spend precious time gaining reciprocals, or in content article links, or paid, but any one of them could get penalised, and 'lost' for good.

[inertia]

Cheers for the response guys, some great feedback!

When the client first mentioned it i drew up a full disclaimer which was for my boss' benefit as well. It had quotes from google guidelines and matt cutts, i also highlighted forum threads and blog posts to strengthen the evidence. I described the possible consequences and methods that would be needed to recover from a penalty and the methods google are employing to find these practices.

I have seen many sites suffer from buying crap links but never penalised, just loose PR as a consequence of the sellers being penalised. Has anyone experienced sites being penalised for buying links?

To be fair, my boss is very reasonable about this situation. He challenges me on matters but respects my opinions. The desicion is with me on this one so im trying to do the best for all parties concerned. Your responses have eased my worries somewhat coz youve pretty much advised what i was thinking but its good to have the oponions of more experienced SEOs on this matter.

[deepsand]

Good luck, Jim.

[srblogger]

Your responsibility is to explain to him the risks. I personally would not engage in buying links because it is counter-productive, but if he insists, then I believe you will need to in order to keep the account.

[johnnygphotography]

It sounds like you have great work ethics and this is a good lesson for you for knowing your boundaries especially when branching off and creating your own business.

By saying no to a client because it doesn't resonate with your proper way of conducting your business, might cause them to leave - sure. But this will only attract more of those customers that do resonate with your way of doing business.

This has happened to me where I've lost a couple of customers because I didn't feel comfortable doing something they asked (shady stuff). Almost immediately after, I gained much more work with people who shared my vision.

All this said, it seems like you covered your butt pretty well and can now hand over the ethical responsibility to your company. Good luck!!!

[Webnauts]

You asked the same question at Davids (CTABUK) forum.

Buying links and link building are two different pair of shoes. For instance, I do not buy or sale links, and I would never get engaged in such practices for any price. Do I maybe I respect my reputation too much? Yes, because I live from it.

Alternatively, I only provide natural link building services. If a customer would tell me that they want to buy links to manipulate the PageRank algorithm, I will explain him/her customer about the SE policies/guidelines and the risks doing that. If their intention is for generating targeted traffic, and they have no problem in implementing the "nofollow" attribute is those links, I would support that. At the end of the day it is their decision if they want to put their online business into a risk or not. But without me. ;)

[incrediblehelp]

I am confused. If they are a client why not tell them you not going to do it. No one is forcing them to be your client. If he is your boss then explain why this is bad, but if he wants you do it then do it.

[marcel]

Additionally, you can outsource this job. Like most things in Life, link building works for those who know how to do it or actually believe in it. As you previously witnessed. there are safe and unsafe ways to do this.

I would recommend getting the best links builders and outsource it, you can manage it.

[Fibo]

I am not sure that the debate about buying links is really the best answer.

The client says "I have heard that buying links is great, I want it too!".
From what we knows, the client is not a web expert. (No wonder then that the discussion about banning and other things went over his head).

I would consider that his sentence means "I'm ready to spend some money so that we get more traffic, please make me a proposal to buy links". And to this, we have answers correct?

So prepare a proposal detailing some campaigns of AdWords (and/ or any competitor you will find suitable), with words, estimated price etc.

Also add a subsection about what we call rightly paid links with a paragraph explaining why it is bad and the relevant URL on Matts' site.

You will then:
- address his concern with a workable solution and a budget
- tell him that you are listening and giving good advice
- that the words used by his friend might have led to some trouble if you were not a listening careful expert.

[Terry Van Horne]

One of my clients has a 6 month old site which sells office chairs. He wants to be number one for... office chairs! and isn't really bothered about much else.ohh yeah... he should be. Dumb customers who are left uneducated stay that way and in the end... take toooo much of your time... for tooooooooo little $$$. I subcontract this sort of work and tell the client I don't think this is in their best interest but, I will gladly hook 'em up. Then I charge them for monitoring the work and vetting the vendors. I get why you want this in house. Implementation is costly though so.. IMO, this is always a lost litre for either the provider or the client. I prefer it be the client. Since I think it's a short term strategy and... Homey Don't do dat!.;-)

The other day he came in and told me that a mate in the pub who sells some other generic product over the internet told him that his SEO buys links and he's doing really well. Now my client wants me to procure him some paid links! My immediate reaction was no and I quickly told him about reputation, Google guidelines, longevity and such. But! He's adamant and we may loose him if we dont.That's a gain by ommission unless you are going through a tight period and need the work. Do this... and you'll regret it. The client has now hired his buddy to do the SEO strategy for his site.
I used to work for an SEO company that purchased all their links from a company in India. Worked really well for most clients but when that company was spotted by Google all the positions dropped and the lack of natural links meant the sites suffered badly.Tell him that and agree to help him find a reputable company. Be adamant about "not wanting responsibility" for such a potentially risky technique.


I'm aware that as far as our reputation and credibility as an online marketing company goes we should be sticking to Google guidelines.BS do it because it's the right thing to do for everybody! This is a stupid guideline like a stupid law it doesn't mean shit to anyone but johnny law. I'm pretty sure the only feathers it ruffles is Googles and the client if he gets whacked and undoes all the work to date.

[Webnauts]

I used to work for an SEO company that purchased all their links from a company in India. Worked really well for most clients but when that company was spotted by Google all the positions dropped and the lack of natural links meant the sites suffered badly.
Here is a very interesting read about this: Cheap SEO: it’s about quality, not price : Internet Business (http://www.internetbusiness.co.uk/12052008/cheap-seo-its-about-quality-not-price/)

[inertia]

Does anyone have direct experience of a site being penalised for buying links?

[inertia]

Loving this line from the post linked above webnauts!


Social media sites, blogs, and forums, can see a lot of active chatter on SEO topics, but the warning is that some of the people leading these discussions only have limited SEO experience in working on their own website(s), and have never worked in the commercial deep end.

When i set up my cash cow site it was great fun to link build and SEO! I was interested, active and knowledgeable on the subject and the site did (and still does) really well. Looking at it now, the site looks like its been built by a chimp but it does well coz of the quality links i established. This came from years of being active in that field.

Link building as a service is so much harder because of that lack of standing/experience in the sector.

[janeth]

Loving this line from the post linked above webnauts!


Quote:
Social media sites, blogs, and forums, can see a lot of active chatter on SEO topics, but the warning is that some of the people leading these discussions only have limited SEO experience in working on their own website(s), and have never worked in the commercial deep end.

When i set up my cash cow site it was great fun to link build and SEO! I was interested, active and knowledgeable on the subject and the site did (and still does) really well. Looking at it now, the site looks like its been built by a chimp but it does well coz of the quality links i established. This came from years of being active in that field.

Link building as a service is so much harder because of that lack of standing/experience in the sector.

Yes and some of those people own more than one site and have ranked sites for keywords like dating.

It's best if you test things and learn for yourself as I can think off two threads of the top of my head were the expert SEO's had given misleading information. All with-in the last 7 days.

[inertia]

Yes and some of those people own more than one site and have ranked sites for keywords like dating.

It's best if you test things and learn for yourself as I can think off two threads of the top of my head were the expert SEO's had given misleading information. All with-in the last 7 days.

Yep, this just goes to show that working on your own site is a lot easier than working on a customers site. However, working with 100s, or even 1000s, of customer sites offers a lot of experience gaining opportunities.

[janeth]

Yep, this just goes to show that working on your own site is a lot easier than working on a customers site.

Now you believe that Google ranks sites differently depending on whose working on them?


However, working with 100s, or even 1000s, of customer sites offers a lot of experience gaining opportunities.

If you are working on 1,000’s of sites then I feel sorry for your customers as most of them are being ignored.

I personally own a couple hundred sites and have very little time to mess with most of them.

[inertia]

Now you believe that Google ranks sites differently depending on whose working on them?

No. Did i say that?


If you are working on 1,000’s of sites then I feel sorry for your customers as most of them are being ignored.

I personally own a couple hundred sites and have very little time to mess with most of them.

Right now i have about 30. I have worked at places where I've had 100s, which wasnt ideal. Some people of a more mature standing will have worked with 1000s no doubt.

Janet, as soon as you enter a thread it becomes less productive. Can you go somewhere else please?

[crankydave]

Inertia... I believe Janeth misinterpreted your post. Reading "easier" as meaning easier to rank. I can see where the misintrepretation could be made.

Janeth... An individual working on 1000's of sites would almost certainly not have enough time to properly tend to them all at once however a "firm" with a large staff could do so. Also working on 100's or 1000's of sites doesn't neccessarily mean all at 1 time.

Dave

[janeth]

Janet, as soon as you enter a thread it becomes less productive. Can you go somewhere else please?

No, actually it becomes more productive and prevents you from spreading misleading information.

Like in this thread http://www.webproworld.com/search-engine-optimization-forum/71395-outgoing-links-weakening-me.html had I and Dave no entered you would have had others believing that linking out would increase your ranking in the major search engines.

You need to understand that if you post something I have every right to post what I think. And you learn more from a debate then you do from one sided post.

[AVC]

Janet, as soon as you enter a thread it becomes less productive. Can you go somewhere else please?

Welcome to the new WPW :shock: :rolleyes:

I am cutting down my posting here for a long while due to the same.

[P3Hosting]

In the end the client is always right!

Tell them about the issues and let them make the decision.

If the client wants links give them links, and make sure the client pays for the links, not your firm.

[inertia]

No, actually it becomes more productive and prevents you from spreading misleading information.

In case you havent noticed i started this thread and have made no statements which could come anywhere near to being "misleading information". Have you actually read this thread?! It was my question!

I gave one opinion, that SEO is easier when its your site, who disagrees with me on that?


Like in this thread http://www.webproworld.com/search-engine-optimization-forum/71395-outgoing-links-weakening-me.html had I and Dave no entered you would have had others believing that linking out would increase your ranking in the major search engines.

Erm, have you deliberately referenced a thread where i loose my temper with you to try and undermine me again? Youre bloody transparent janet!


You need to understand that if you post something I have every right to post what I think. And you learn more from a debate then you do for one sided post.

You have made one constructive post in this thread, your first. The rest has been unsolicited, argument creating blah blah. I applaud your super hero commitment to keeping others informed of your opinion (which is right all the time :rolleyes:) but you come across as patronising and condescending on a daily basis.

Now, answer the last question which i made on this forum which no one else has... have you ever had experience of a site being penalised from buying links?

[janeth]

In case you havent noticed i started this thread and have made no statements which could come anywhere near to being "misleading information". Have you actually read this thread?! It was my question!

Yes I have.


I gave one opinion, that SEO is easier when its your site, who disagrees with me on that?

I agree with that but that is not what you quoted. You quoted that people that do not do SEO for a living post incorrect information on blogs and forums. And that is incorrect.

The reason that it is easer however is because it is my site and I have total control over how I decide to market it.

You don't have the option.

But you have a guaranteed income those of us that have decided to go another route have to make our sites produce or we do not get paid.

An error affects us far more than it would affect you.




Erm, have you deliberately referenced a thread where i loose my temper with you to try and undermine me again? Youre bloody transparent janet!

Nope a thread were the opposite of what you claimed happens happened. It was not the people that do not do SEO for a living giving misleading advice but the SEO's themselves.

It was in direct reference to your post. I'd never had posted it if you had not posted what you said.





You have made one constructive post in this thread, your first. The rest has been unsolicited, argument creating blah blah. I applaud your super hero commitment to keeping others informed of your opinion (which is right all the time :rolleyes:) but you come across as patronising and condescending on a daily basis.

I get many emails and lots of green that would say others do not hold the same opinion as yours.



Now, answer the last question which i made on this forum which no one else has... have you ever had experience of a site being penalised from buying links?

Never. The only sites I've ever heard about were the ones selling the links.

[inertia]

You quoted that people that do not do SEO for a living post incorrect information on blogs and forums.

No i didnt, my quote was far less absolute. My quote:


Social media sites, blogs, and forums, can see a lot of active chatter on SEO topics, but the warning is that some of the people leading these discussions only have limited SEO experience in working on their own website(s), and have never worked in the commercial deep end.

Not my statement, but i stand by it. Why did you feel like this was an attack on you? Do you not agree that there are people on forums who are posting based on one or two sites experience?

@most other replies. Thanks for the feedback guys i appreciate and have found many of your opinions very useful. That will do for me unless anyone can give me an example of a site that has been penalised for buying links?

[janeth]

Not my statement, but i stand by it. Why did you feel like this was an attack on you? Do you not agree that there are people on forums who are posting based on one or two sites experience?


I feel that there are more people that claim to be an SEO posting bad information on forums than anything else.

A guy from India decides he wants to make some money.

He steals someone else's design and text, puts it online and now he's an SEO.

But has no clue of how to rank the site nor would he put fourth the effort if he did know.

So he hits the forums posting crap like he's a big time SEO and starts making money. He's willing to come in a lot lower than anyone else because he has no plans of doing anything other than taking your money.

I've learned lots from people that only have one site and most of the time they post good information.

[AVC]

Janeth, you are living in a strong delusion, due to the fact that you do not recognize the irony in your statements.


I feel that there are more people that claim to be an SEO posting bad information on forums than anything else.





You are the one posting non-relevant and incorrect information, trying to jam it down the throats of readers and other WPW members just to garner attention for your signature links.

If management allows you to get away with it, this forum is dead, end of story.

PS: Signature spamming always works the opposite of the desired result Janeth, one day you will figure that out.

[janeth]

Janeth, you are living in a strong delusion, due to the fact that you do not recognize the irony in your statements.

anthonycea,

I'm surprised that forum admins. let you change your user name.

I'm guessing that since anthonycea had been banned from almost every forum online that you had no choice.

However it seems to me that most people would have learned after the first couple bans and the closing of the forums that allowed you to remain that your posting style needed to change.

Guess that's not the case with you.

I wonder how many times you'd touch a hot grill before figuring out that it is really hot?

[AVC]

Get lost Janeth, you are mad because I know your history.

http://www.webproworld.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=71498

Don't worry, you will be on top of the above list soon with your off topic spam posts.

I changed my user name to avoid having forum trolls like you follow me from forum to forum by making a search on my name Janeth.

[crankydave]

Get lost Janeth, you are mad because I know your history.

http://www.webproworld.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=71498

Don't worry, you will be on top of the above list soon with your off topic spam posts.

I changed my user name to avoid having forum trolls like you follow me from forum to forum by making a search on my name Janeth.

You now have a week to think about your posts.

And to ALL the rest... stop the sniping.

Dave

[Webnauts]

That will do for me unless anyone can give me an example of a site that has been penalised for buying links?
Lets make it simple man. Lets say that you buy links, and the site who sold them to you have been penalized. Can you afford that? If yes, then go for it.

[Terry Van Horne]

I feel that there are more people that claim to be an SEO posting bad information on forums than anything else.Please raise your bar. Our problem is that some people like yourself are enabling that to happen by accepting that as a "standard". I don't, you shouldn't either. I like that you call people on the shit that needs it. Please don't paint all SEO's with the same brush I don't think that is fair or constructive.
A guy from India decides he wants to make some money.

He steals someone else's design and text, puts it online and now he's an SEO.

But has no clue of how to rank the site nor would he put fourth the effort if he did know.

So he hits the forums posting crap like he's a big time SEO and starts making money. He's willing to come in a lot lower than anyone else because he has no plans of doing anything other than taking your money.I haven't seen many of those kind of SEOs here but they come across my desk and into the spam filter everyday. They don't do what I do and I have to wonder why you accept that "standard" for SEO. It's easy if all you want to do is slag 'em because you don't respect what SEOs do. The problem with the industry is you aren't in the industry and you are setting the criteria for those who are. Unfair and disrespectful of people who do want it to be recornized as a professional & legit marketing strategy! I could say the worst web design.... is by bobs uncles brother saying he is a website designer cause he can open frontpage and center an image on the page... we've all heard that one a hundred times... Do you accept that as a professional website designer... why would you accept that as a standard for SEO because that is basically what you've just done above for SEO!
I've learned lots from people that only have one site and most of the time they post good information.The best SEOs are just good web developers so... I agree on this.

[janeth]

Please raise your bar. Our problem is that some people like yourself are enabling that to happen by accepting that as a "standard". I don't, you shouldn't either. I like that you call people on the shit that needs it. Please don't paint all SEO's with the same brush I don't think that is fair or constructive.

I apologize for that and I'm not sure why I've gotten so bitter towards the SEOers, I'll try to do better.

[chiron]

I'm not sure why I've gotten so bitter towards the SEOers...

Perhaps it's because there are only a "few" SEO professionals who do or can do what they say. And what they say is unfortunately pushed to the limits by the "many" who make competitive claims beyond responsibility, claims that are very tempting to the finite number of paying clients who want to reach for the stars.

I agree with Mr. Horne that the "many" tend not to be on these forums, though their inaccuracies catch the fancies of some of us here from time to time, hence the frenzy of questioning threads. The reason the many are elsewhere is simple: no money to be made here. They're off making a new spam email that we'll all get 50 times about achieving top listings overnight in Google - using some recipe only they know. We should all buy their ebook, too. Doh, their link's broken.

It's easy - and I think fair - to be bitter towards (the many) SEOers, but it's also easy for the (few) SEO professionals to get rather bitter in return... not much fun to endlessly defend and debate valid services muddied by the many who have and will continue to tarnish the industry. ;)

[Fibo]

If this was not supposed to be a professional forum, looking at the bing-bang kiddylike exchange between inertia and janeth might be funny. :confused:

However, as usual, flame wars might be useful for the egoes of the participating flamers, but not to other people on the forums.:twisted:

:rolleyes:Maybe Inertia and Janeth might accept some ceasefire when one starts posting on one theread, the second is allowed to post only 25% as many posts? This would force to use just the core of content and usefulness...

[janeth]

If this was not supposed to be a professional forum, looking at the bing-bang kiddylike exchange between inertia and janeth might be funny. :confused:

It's rare that there is a flame war. A debate is a lot different than flaming someone.


However, as usual, flame wars might be useful for the egoes of the participating flamers, but not to other people on the forums.:twisted:

Once again, it's debating something not flaming someone and it's very useful in helping learn and understand a topic.



:rolleyes:Maybe Inertia and Janeth might accept some ceasefire when one starts posting on one theread, the second is allowed to post only 25% as many posts? This would force to use just the core of content and usefulness...

lol, or we could just post 6 times like you and watch the forum die.

[inertia]

YouTube - How To Behave On An Internet Forum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xs8HWN6UyE)

[ctabuk]

Janeth - this is called 'flaming' now stop it please.
'or we could just post 6 times like you and watch the forum die'.


I have not had time to read all of this thread so if I'm a little out - I apologise - but now that Google actually pays students to patrol forums and manually list all offers of buying or selling links sites - doesn't that make the entire process risky?

[janeth]

Janeth - this is called 'flaming' now stop it please.
'or we could just post 6 times like you and watch the forum die'.


I was not flaming but responding.

Get a life

[kgun]

Any employer or employee who chooses to bury their head in the sand or play the "three monkeys" when it comes to things that can detrimentally affect the livelyhood of others are ones I would have to question.

Great picture.

Neither have I read the whole thread, but GYM agree that bought links shall be nofollowed.

Make clear, that you can buy links for:

Traffic,
branding (image link)
and not for ranking,
in the long run.

[ctabuk]

I was not flaming but responding.

Get a life

Stay on topic

[crankydave]

I'm locking this for now to give everyone a chance to re-read their posts and some extra time to think about their next post.

Please do that so that this topic may continue without the the sniping.

Thank you

Dave

Unlocked...

Please continue to debate/discuss the topic but STOP with the sniping and antagonistic replies.

Discuss the ideas/suggestions/comments/opinions and NOT the community member.

Thank you.

[kgun]

Great picture.

Neither have I read the whole thread, but GYM agree that bought links shall be nofollowed.

Make clear, that you can buy links for:
Traffic,
branding (image link)
and not for ranking,
in the long run.

Banner link is a better word, but since the thread was locked for some hours I was not able to edit it.

And now I have read the whole thread.

[full house]

you can do so, if that's what your client want to do. Just ask the owner or the webmaster of the site you are going to buy links make it natural. It depends on you how you make it natural.