Allinanchor Question

[watto]

When I visit allinanchor:business for sale my site is about 4th - 5th on the first page of google.com and 2nd on google.com.au (business-trader.com.au)

I know there are many factors that come into play in regards to the serps, but surely my site should be ranking higher than what it currently does? In fact, in google.com.au I am outranked by sites that are obviously less optimised on and off page compared to my site (for my main term "business for sale").

How important or accurate is the allinanchor: process?

Regards

watto

[incrediblehelp]

How important or accurate is the allinanchor: process?

Not at all.

[kgun]

It is not listed Advanced Google Search Operators (http://www.google.com/help/operators.html) among the best known operators, so Google seemingly don't mean it is so important.

You find it here Google Search Operators - Google Guide (http://www.googleguide.com/advanced_operators.html) though.

I can use the operator like this

allinanchor:internet.com

[watto]

I was under the impression that "allinanchor:business for sale" listed the sites with the most back links using that anchor text, and seeing as though my site ranks quite high, I can't understand why my site doesn't rank higher in the serps?

As I said, I know there are many factors that come into play, but I feel that the way my site is optimized on and off page, I should rank much higher. Something is holding my site back........

regards

watto

[kgun]

... but I feel that the way my site is optimized on and off page, I should rank much higher. Something is holding my site back........


Most of us mean that.

And I don't find my main site (second signature link) ranking for:

allinanchor:finance (this Google Finance (http://finance.google.com/finance) subsite is the first hit) or

allinanchor:financial (this Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/) subsite is the first hit)

even if I have 100's of IBL's to my site from this forum. Should I
Complain to WPW?
To Google?Neither for these more specific search terms

inurl:finance

allinurl:finance

<side note>
Note news are not so important to some economists. Most often news are reported history and already discounted in the market. Some even mean that the market lead the news.
</side note>

[watto]

I'm not complaining. I'm simply asking for advice. allinurl will only list sites with the requested keywords in the url. I'm asking about allinanchor.

The reason I am confused is because I am on page 1 in google.com.au for my main term, however I am outranked by sites that are clearly less optimized than my site.

The only advantage these sites have over me is the fact that my site is 4.5 years old and these sites are about 4 years older:

bsale.com.au (this site looks very spammy to me and hasn't even redirect the different variations of the url...index, www, etc)

businessforsale.com.au (very low back links)
regards

watto

[kgun]

bsale.com.au (this site looks very spammy to me and hasn't even redirect the different variations of the url...index, www, etc)

There are indications that my-site may be regarded as a more spammy name than mysite. Their design is not the best IMO. Do you regard lack of redirect as spam or optimization?

One important point. As far as I can see their bad contact information is better than on the second site in your signature. I can not see AdSense ads (some regard that as spam and reduce IBL's to the site - perhaps Google not) on that site, that I can on yours. So, please explain in further detail.



businessforsale.com.au (very low back links)
regards

Looks good by first impression.

How do you test the number of backlinks?

[watto]

The redirect is optimization. As mentioned, I said that these sites are not optimized as well as mine.......I think.lol.

Please disregard the second site in my sig. I am only referring to business-trader.com.au .

When checking backlinks I search link:businessforsale.com.au and I also use a SEOElite.

Regards

watto

[kgun]

When checking backlinks I search link:businessforsale.com.au and I also use a SEOElite.


My bolding. On Google?

That is not regarded as the best tool, since not all back links are counted.

There are alternatives:

On my site: Global resources for webmarketing, branding and digital ad at AdSchoolworld.com (http://www.adschoolworld.com/)
Click "links" in the upper right corner.
Page search (CTRL + F) : Backlink analysers

[watto]

It is telling me that the backlink analysers are no longer available to the public.

When comparing businessforsale.com.au v's business-trader.com.au , do you get a better result with businnessforsale.com.au ?

watto

[incrediblehelp]

watto we have gone round and round on many, any threads now on your website. You simply need more higher quality links pointing to your website with the keywords in the anchor text that you are targeting.

Have you done any real competitive analysis yet? Try a tool called Compete.com and Google Ad Planner.

[watto]

Thanks for the tip incrediblehelp

[kevsta]

I was under the impression that "allinanchor:business for sale" listed the sites with the most back links using that anchor text, and seeing as though my site ranks quite high, I can't understand why my site doesn't rank higher in the serps?

As I said, I know there are many factors that come into play, but I feel that the way my site is optimized on and off page, I should rank much higher. Something is holding my site back........

regards

watto

do you know what, I'm not certain but i think you might well be right. click the link, look for the 15% reading.

http://www.rankquest.com/tools/Keyword-Density-Analyzer.www.business-trader.com. (http://www.rankquest.com/tools/Keyword-Density-Analyzer.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.business-trader.com.au%2F&keyword=business+for+sale&Submit22=Analyze)

its called Alt text spamming and if it isn't the whole reason, I very much doubt its helping you, lose them.

[crankydave]

When I visit allinanchor:business for sale my site is about 4th - 5th on the first page of google.com and 2nd on google.com.au (business-trader.com.au)
watto

I'm seeing your site in the middle of page 2 on google.com for both...

allinanchor:"business for sale"
allinanchor:business for sale

Dave

[kevsta]

really? was #5 when i looked here earlier today. ..theyre busy discounting some of his links as we speak :)

edit just checked again, still #4 here.

[Webnauts]

As I said, I know there are many factors that come into play, but I feel that the way my site is optimized on and off page, I should rank much higher. Something is holding my site back........
The way you feel is totally wrong. If everyone feeling the same way you do, then Google should have millions of columns on their search results pages., so they can all have high rankings. :lol:

Please don't start again Peter. Only if you are trying to promote your site here... But let us know that in advance.

[Webnauts]

watto we have gone round and round on many, any threads now on your website. You simply need more higher quality links pointing to your website with the keywords in the anchor text that you are targeting.

Have you done any real competitive analysis yet? Try a tool called Compete.com and Google Ad Planner.
Jaan I teared his site apart and you can be sure that he has tons of on-page issues. But he is not willing to hire an SEO for help. That is all.

[Webnauts]

do you know what, I'm not certain but i think you might well be right. click the link, look for the 15% reading.

http://www.rankquest.com/tools/Keyword-Density-Analyzer.www.business-trader.com. (http://www.rankquest.com/tools/Keyword-Density-Analyzer.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.business-trader.com.au%2F&keyword=business+for+sale&Submit22=Analyze)

its called Alt text spamming and if it isn't the whole reason, I very much doubt its helping you, lose them.
I think this toll in combination with this tutorial is excellent:
» Avoiding Keyword Stuffing Ban (http://www.seoresearcher.com/average-keyword-saturation-google-msn-yahoo.htm)

[Peter (IMC)]

I was under the impression that "allinanchor:business for sale" listed the sites with the most back links using that anchor text, and seeing as though my site ranks quite high, I can't understand why my site doesn't rank higher in the serps?

As I said, I know there are many factors that come into play, but I feel that the way my site is optimized on and off page, I should rank much higher. Something is holding my site back........

regards

watto

allinanchor is a filter, not a ranking method.

And to add to that. If you'd just would forget about trying to figure out why you´re ranking where you are and spend all the time on promoting your website, you'd get higher rankings over time.

Don't try to understand the exact reason why the sun shines today and it was raining yesterday. Try to understand the factors that govern these processes, and use them to your advantage. It's really no use trying to figure out why that cloud above your house yesterday was there at the moment you wanted to sit in the garden to have a beer.

[kevsta]

allinanchor is a filter, not a ranking method.

And to add to that. If you'd just would forget about trying to figure out why you´re ranking where you are and spend all the time on promoting your website, you'd get higher rankings over time.

Don't try to understand the exact reason why the sun shines today and it was raining yesterday. Try to understand the factors that govern these processes, and use them to your advantage. It's really no use trying to figure out why that cloud above your house yesterday was there at the moment you wanted to sit in the garden to have a beer.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all Peter, just wanted to comment that to me the bolded part above is what keep SEO interesting.

laying awake at night Googlewatching and trying to figure out exactly why I and the others are where they are, and the finer points of what we need to do to reverse those positions, or more recently hold them as is.. :)

otherwise it all gets a bit samey and formulaic doesnt it?

[Peter (IMC)]

:)

I like to understand the basic principles.... stuff like why titles are important, why h1's are important, why anchor texts are import, how does pagerank work, age algorithms,.. etc. etc. etc.

But I don't want to be a detective, that tries to figure out why title 1 is ranking higher than title 2. First of all, you can't really say anything about it because you'll end up in an endless loop of fact searching.

Imagine you could make the 2 titles the same. Then still one will rank higher than the other. So you continue the search and now you find that the h1's are different. You make them equal and change the 2 titles back to what they were originally. Still no real conclusions can be drawn,.. oh next thing to look at are the links,... so you look at those,.. etc. etc.

You'll end up at a point where you can't find new facts and you still don't know anything more about why site 1 ranks higher than site 2.

It's a never ending story.

Now here's another approach,.. my own for that matter....

Understand as many factors as you can. Then do the (largely intuitive) job of trying to understand how they all work together. And use that information to build your own site.

You check results as you go and base your next actions on them. When you see you get stuck for example in position 7, you look at what the weakest points of the site are, and improve those.

When you know you did enough (also something that is difficult to measure, but if you have a bit of experience it kind of comes naturally), you just do the normal work on the site and make sure you´re not de-optimizing anything. Not counting extreme markets like "web hosting" and the like, I can almost guarantee that all it takes from that point on, is time to get the site higher positions.


oh and it is a lot more fun to make money of getting the site higher up than it is to know why your competition ranks higher than you... ;)

[crazyseo]

After all the Veteran thought I will say only, If you are not ranking on top with allinanchor:your keyword
means you have not build more links for that particular keyword making anchor. The site ranking above you have more links with that anchor text.

Regards
Crazyseo

[Peter (IMC)]

After all the Veteran thought I will say only, If you are not ranking on top with allinanchor:your keyword
means you have not build more links for that particular keyword making anchor. The site ranking above you have more links with that anchor text.

Regards
Crazyseo

Sorry but that's not correct. The actual number of links means nothing.

[Webnauts]

Sorry but that's not correct. The actual number of links means nothing.
Peter I think he met that in terms of crazy and not professional SEO. :lol:

[crankydave]

Actually, as I read the comment, Crazyseo is correct.

Any sites ranking above you for an allinchor: search have more links with that anchor text. Crazyseo did not say that is "why" the sites rank above you.

Dave

[kgun]

What about the weight of the IBL (vote)?

[Peter (IMC)]

Actually, as I read the comment, Crazyseo is correct.

Any sites ranking above you for an allinchor: search have more links with that anchor text. Crazyseo did not say that is "why" the sites rank above you.

Dave

I think this already shows that the number of backlinks with that anchor is not a factor:


What about the weight of the IBL (vote)?

Even though there is a relation between the number of backlinks and their total weight, you can't just state that just the number is the factor.

[crankydave]

I think this already shows that the number of backlinks with that anchor is not a factor:

Crazyseo did not say it was Peter. His post as I read it is indeed correct. What was "not correct"?

Dave

[Peter (IMC)]

Crazyseo did not say it was Peter. His post as I read it is indeed correct. What was "not correct"?

Dave

Well,.. let me first say that I have nothing against Crazyseo,.. It's just my opinion that what he wrote was not completely correct.

This quote is what I don't agree with:


The site ranking above you have more links with that anchor text.

That means the number of backlinks, doesn't it? If a higher ranking site has more links with that anchor then that means the results are ordered by the number of backlinks with that anchor text. I don't agree with that. All the usual ranking algorithms still apply.

from: Google Guide to Searching (http://www.google.com/notebook/public/10994812642363749232/BDQtXSwoQ4pbI678h)


allinanchor: If you start your query with allinanchor:, Google restricts results to pages containing all query terms you specify in the anchor text on links to the page.
That means it's a filter, not a ranking method. If it's not a ranking method, the number of backlinks with that anchor in links to the page is not directly related to the order of the results.

[crankydave]

That means the number of backlinks, doesn't it? If a higher ranking site has more links with that anchor then that means the results are ordered by the number of backlinks with that anchor text. I don't agree with that. All the usual ranking algorithms still apply.

from: Google Guide to Searching (http://www.google.com/notebook/public/10994812642363749232/BDQtXSwoQ4pbI678h)

That means it's a filter, not a ranking method. If it's not a ranking method, the number of backlinks with that anchor in links to the page is not directly related to the order of the results.

That doesn't make sense to me Peter.

If indeed all the usual ranking algorithms apply, the sites that use the anchor text would rank exactly the same using the allinanchor operator and the general search results. They do not.

For example a search for SEO...

seomoz is #10
seo-guy is #14

allinanchor:seo
seomoz is #12
seo-guy is #11

If it's just a filter and regular ranking applies this wouldn't happen.

Same if you search computers...

BestBuy ranks #7
For allinanchor:computers it ranks #28

Since BestBuy uses the anchor text and ranks #7 for a general search, it would outrank all of the other sites that also use the anchor text for an allinanchor: query if regular ranking appllies. It doesn't.

Dave

[Peter (IMC)]

That doesn't make sense to me Peter.

If indeed all the usual ranking algorithms apply, the sites that use the anchor text would rank exactly the same using the allinanchor operator and the general search results. They do not.

For example a search for SEO...

seomoz is #10
seo-guy is #14

allinanchor:seo
seomoz is #12
seo-guy is #11

If it's just a filter and regular ranking applies this wouldn't happen.

Same if you search computers...

BestBuy ranks #7
For allinanchor:computers it ranks #28

Since BestBuy uses the anchor text and ranks #7 for a general search, it would outrank all of the other sites that also use the anchor text for an allinanchor: query if regular ranking appllies. It doesn't.

Dave

:) I was afraid somebody would bring that up. And you´re right, the order does change, but at the same time, that doesn't proof the order is then based only on the number of backlinks with those words in the anchor text.

That's the only point I really wanted to make.


But let's analize a bit more because this should not be about who's right and who's wrong. Perhaps we can learn new things from this.

Obviously, it's not exactly a filter. Google says they restrict the results to only those with the words in the anchor texts. They don't say they filter out the pages that don't have it in the anchors.

They probably do the actual filtering during the selection of the results, before applying ranking logic. So they select only pages that have links with the anchors. Does this effect the ordering of the results?

Now we´re getting into a really speculative arena of course where anybody's opinion could be true. (but more likely at best partially true.) So I'm not going to say what is happening because there's no way of knowing through observation, but I'll write down some considerations:


What happens with the historic data algorithms? Does Google determine at that moment the new average age values for that specific search? If so, the order of the results will be different. The average age values for that search are likely to be a bit different.
Only looking at pages that actually contain the words in the anchors, does this require different distribution of the importance of various other factors?
Is the PR value of each page now limited only to the links with the words in the anchors?