Is Mozilla the best browser??? [Archive]

RamyD

12-05-2007, 09:49 AM

Firefox is a bit more standards compliant. Also, because FF is less commonly used than IE, and not tied directly into the operating system, and is patched more frequently, it is more secure. Firefox is also more extensible than IE, with literally thousands of plugins available for almost any need. LiveHTTPHeaders, YSlow, SEO Toolbar, Total Validator, and Firebug are just some of the diagnostic addins I have in my Firefox, which help me troubleshoot network and web site problems, and none of which have an IE counterpart.

firefox is not safer than IE
also firefox takes more RAM
and FF is not as fast depending on your profile.

the best browser when it comes to reading html/xml/css is OPERA and you check that with the ACID test: Acid2 Browser Test - The Web Standards Project (http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/)

most important of all though: i use firefox and it's the shit, i don't know why people still use IE, it's just a bad browser.

you should hit the extensions site here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/
get some addons and get some themes, customize your browser a bit and make it your own.

some great extensions are:
firebug (why isn't this standard with firefox again ?... )
the web developer extension (must have for developers)
seoquake (must have tool if you're doing seo)
search status (get it here: SearchStatus | Firefox SEO Toolbar Extension (http://www.quirk.biz/searchstatus/) )
mouse gestures (great for productivity and lazyness)
and useragent switcher (makes a site think you are a different browser, for the haters out there)

enjoy.

EDIT: if you want to get really technical you can type in about:config in the address bar of FF and start changing some stuff there too
edit edit: oh and foxyproxy, that could be a good one if you like to check your rank in google through different geolocation but want to connect to a proxy server uber quick

kgun

12-05-2007, 10:33 AM

Is Mozilla the best browser???

Here (post 13 - 17)

XML and RSS - SitePoint Forums (http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517708)

is a related thread that I wrote about IE today. I have to react when I have time and surfers / web masteres write about Web browsers.

duffs22

12-05-2007, 12:38 PM

My favorite feature about Firefox is the fact that it remembers passwords allot better than IE, and if you, for whatever reason, lose your browser (if it crashes on you) you can restore your session.

Also like mentioned above, you can get awesome SEO add ons and many many other helpful plugins that IE doesn't offer.

Only thing I don't like about it, is if you are building a website, you'll have to create 2 different style sheets in order for the site to appear the same in both browsers (IE FF).

This is just my experience.

Orion

12-05-2007, 09:47 PM

yep the add ons are why I use FF over the others.. especially gestures, opera has them but there's too many sites that don't render correctly in Opera.

kgun

12-06-2007, 06:37 AM

opera has them but there's too many sites that don't render correctly in Opera.

Do you have some examples?
Do you know why?
Can it be for security reasons?
Have you tried various options view +
If I use the right option in Opera, I have experienced the opposite, pages that are meaningless in the other browsers becomes meaningful in Opera.

lifenoah

12-06-2007, 07:03 AM

Hi,
I found out an interesting detailed review of many a browsers and I think it is interesting to learn that Firefox Mozilla is the best of the browsers available. You may like to visit Browsers Reviews - Best Browser Review of internet explorer 7 and mozilla firefox 2 review (http://www.browsers-review.com) and check out as to what they say about Mozilla. Happy Holidays!

kgun

12-06-2007, 08:18 AM

From that report:

Mozilla FireFox 2: Overall rating 5/5.

Firefox outstanding features include
pop-up blocking; a tab-browsing; integrated Google
searching; spell checking, anti-phishing and other advanced security features, simplified privacy controls that let you cover your tracks more effectively; a streamlined browser window that shows you more of the page than any other browser; automatic session-restore function and a number of additional features that work with you to help you get the most out of your time online.
The net result is that Mozilla Firefox is a complete, fast, full-featured Web browser that makes browsing more efficient than ever before.

Opera 9: Overall rating 3/5.

The motto of Opera has always been one: develop the quickest, smallest and most full-featured browser available! And the latest version maintains the tradition. Not only Opera 9.23 keeps safe all the basics (tabbed browsing, search bar, advanced bookmarks tools, and easy integration with your favorite e-mail client and chat provider, mouse-gesture support, keyboard shortcuts, and drag-and-drop functionality further enhance your surfing experience), but also pushes it to the top of the class with some innovative extra features.

Integrated theme support lets you preview themes from within the interface; Widgets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widget_engine) are small. The Wand utility combines autofill with saved passwords. Opera comes with torrent support and real-time fraud protection for safer browsing. A new feature in version 9.2, Speed Dial, permanently assigns bookmarks and tabs any digit from one through nine. When you enter one of those numbers into the URL bar, the corresponding site loads when you hit enter.

Overall, I think Opera might have what it takes to unseat even the biggest-name browsers if users give it the opportunity. I especially enjoyed the Speed Dial feature. But in our opinion Opera has still to move a little bit forward if it wants to keep up with the best players, especially if we consider the user interface and the usability of the most advanced features.

I have my own rating based on a daily use of FF, IE and Opera.

OrangeRank. Ordinarily you must rank at OrangeRank.com before you can rank on PurpleRank.com and RedCarpetRank.com (http://www.orangerank.com/)

PurpleRank. Ordinarily you must rank at OrangeRank.com before you can rank on PurpleRank.com and RedCarpetRank.com (http://www.purplerank.com/)

RedCarpetRank - Webs outstanding sites, resources and articles (http://www.redcarpetrank.com/) Scroll down

Security is a very important aspect in that rating. IE is less secure, then comes FF and finally Opera that is most secure. Cross browser scripting is "impossible" in Oprea, and there is an extra layer of security if you use the browser on your bank account, the master password that is set in Opera. That rating will not be changed until I hear about a more secure browser.

Mobility, Opera Mini (http://www.operamini.com/) should be most important for surfers with wireless access to the internet.

P.S. Accessibility is much discussed on the internet. Why is accessibility no a part of that test?

MarkGatESS

12-06-2007, 09:46 AM

I agree with most of the people that have posted in praise of Firefox. It IS more secure than IE and you do get a lot more features with Firefox (plug-ins). For general browsing, it's the best in my book. I haven't played around with Opera. The last time I tried Opera, there were two versions: one that you had to pay for, and the unlimited-free-use version. The "free" version had me plagued with ads trying to get me to purchase their Opera browser, which I found VERY annoying. I don't know what they do now with the latest version, but since I'm quite happy with FF, I don't feel the need to add yet another browser to my system.

It's a bit slow loading. For some reason, the latter versions of Firefox have been a pig on system resources (maybe they're integrating too much with Microshaft??)

Although, you DO have to be careful with the "Internet Explorer Only" sites. If you're running Microsoft's O/S, all your updates, upgrades, help files, ext. are all run off of microsoft.com AND, if you're not using IE, you get errors and problems accessing those files. Microshaft has made access "browser-dependent" - you HAVE to use IE to access your Windows support. If you make FF your primary browser, you'll have problems with using the microsoft.com accessibility with your Windows O/S.

Of course if you're NOT using Microshaft's O/S, then you should be okay with using Firefox as your primary (and ONLY) browser. I use Firefox as my default browser on my Macintosh G4. I like it better and am more comfortable using FF for browsing instead of Safari.

chrisJumbo

12-06-2007, 09:57 AM

It maybe the best browser, but it is not the most used. So regardless of which one you personally use, if you are a designer, your site still needs to render well in IE. Over 85% still use IE.

Little off topic, but...

Hmm, Google (big supporter of FF. Google controls about 85% of searches) and MS are more alike then they would like to admit. Help us all if they ever merge. :O)

blitzen

12-06-2007, 10:04 AM

FF is more forgiving with errors in html code.

If there is no image, you don't see that huge box with an "X" like you see in IE. FF displays nothing.

If you forget a closing tag or the end ">", FF generally guesses it correctly and the page will show up right.
We discovered a trademark infringement that displayed in FF and not IE because the image tag was improperly written without the closing ">".

FF came out with tabbed windows before IE and I like the way FF handles them.

I use phpMyAdmin and IE opens a database table I select from the left frame in a new tab! Thus, for each table, I get a new tabbed window. That adds up to several tabs when I need to go between several tables.
FF will open it in the right frame where it should be.

FF is getting more and more popular, especially in the UK and rest of Europe.

RamyD wrote,
"firefox is not safer than IE
also firefox takes more RAM
and FF is not as fast depending on your profile."
And I'd like to see the benchmark data for this.

CAN SOMEONE REMOVE THE CURSE LANGUAGE RamyD has in his post, above?

.

kgun

12-06-2007, 10:15 AM

FF is more forgiving with errors in html code.

If there is no image, you don't see that huge box with an "X" like you see in IE. FF displays nothing.

If you forget a closing tag or the end ">", FF generally guesses it correctly and the page will show up right.

That is why you should try differnt options / views when loading the page in Opera.

I can not see that there is more Ad on Opera than on the other browsers. The people at Opera is a company that has to pay their staff. There is a free version with ad, but you have to pay for extra quality, that is a version excluding Ad. When you buy a computer with MS OS, you get IE by default on most (all) of them.

There is very thight integration between FF and Google. You are asked to install the Google Toolbar etc. when you upgrade to a new version. In Opera, you can choose search engine with a clik with the mouse.

Writing DOM event listeners according to the W3C DOM 2 specification is extremely simple. The Internet Explorer version is a night mare in comparison. I am an economist. These lack of standards has costed the world billions of USD in loss of efficiency, lack of usability and accessibility.

Browser security. There are no more secure web browser than Opera as far as I know. Security zones in IE is not secure at all. It is false security. If you talk about web security, I can not simply take you as a surfer seriously if you do not use a secure browser. Did you say that you was attacked by cross browser scripting or your bank account was hacked. First question, which browser did you use?
Source: XML and RSS - SitePoint Forums (http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517708)

If I should shop online, and that online shop had problems with the Opera browser, I would be very careful about shopping there. Can the problem be a cross browser (server) script that try to steal your credit card number?

Conclusion.
Security is the most important factor in my rankning.

nthampi

12-06-2007, 11:23 AM

Both browser has their strengths and weaknesses. Its very ignorant to say that FF is better than IE. There are not as many people who want to hack and attack FireFox as they do with IE. IE is beaten badly for many years now. So, its too early to say how secure is FF. Especially, the number of patches they are releasing lately, its really scary. I use IE6,IE7, FF, Opera and Safari for testing. I am still not convinced to use FF for my banking needs.

rumblepup

12-06-2007, 01:23 PM

I hate "THE BEST" debates, because their is no best in a well performing category. All of the browsers are THE BEST at something that the other browsers are not. In the end, we are all technically savvy enough to use the tools we want to, but the world is not full of webmasters, but webusers. They'll use what they like.

CAN SOMEONE REMOVE THE CURSE LANGUAGE RamyD has in his post, above?

.

OFF TOPIC

I WON'T. He used one word, in a colloquial manner, and I don't see anything wrong with it, nor do I guess most users of this forum will. If he was CURSING OUT PEOPLE in an offensive manner using offensive words, well, then he'd get slammed. I cannot speak for the admins of the site, I'm just a mod, but this forum is a very large community, filled with wonderful (and wonderfully wierd) people from all around the world. Some people use the word shit, some don't, but in the time it took me to write this response, children have died from starvation, women across the world are being abused, people are dying from curable diseases, and George W. Bush is trying to start up another bruhaha in the Middle East (debatable, just my opinion) and that is a million times more offensive to me than one little shit.

Orion

12-06-2007, 01:34 PM

KGun.. I agree Opera is a great browser, I've almost stopped using it since version 8 because it's slower than FF now, the initial start up takes a while and FF with addons has many handy features I love.

Generally when you do a site if it works in FF correctly it does in Opera also.. but here's one site I'm redesigning that's fine in IE and FF that messes up in Opera badly... Golf Kelowna! (http://www.golfkelowna.com/2007/) I haven't found where I messed it up as yet though.. still working on that input graciously accepted.

Also many many apps (game sites are the most prevalent but there's others too) that only run in IE will also work in FF but almost never in Opera which can be frustrating having to change browsers constantly.. I love the FF addon to open page in browser (I have both the IE and Opera one) so with a quick right click I can view sites in all three...

qh4dotcom

12-06-2007, 11:19 PM

Firefox does a great job of remembering your passwords and their add-ons make browsing the Internet more enjoyable. For example, I setup one of their add-ons to play the AOL sound "You've got mail" to let me know when I have received new e-mails at Gmail, Yahoo mail and Hotmail. And it lets me know how many new messages I got on the lower right corner of Firefox browser.

Paulo

12-07-2007, 10:54 AM

It maybe the best browser, but it is not the most used. So regardless of which one you personally use, if you are a designer, your site still needs to render well in IE. Over 85% still use IE.It goes without saying that every dev/designer needs to have IE in their toolbox and both IE6 and IE7 to be fair, but 85% is a figure I'd not set in stone...

85% IE users is what I see on a business website where we understand companies have policies of deploying IE with their OS and that's that - no room for other browsers. w3schools' browser trends has IE at less than 70% and I've seen sites where IE visitors account for 60% so yes, test in all the top browsers your visitors use :)

kgun

12-07-2007, 11:56 AM

You find it here:

Browser Statistics (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp)

See also:

Usage share of web browsers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers)

that base their statistics on this

TheCounter.com: The Full-Featured Web Counter with Graphic Reports and Detailed Information (http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2007/November/browser.php)

source.

MSIE 6.x is still the most popular browser with 48 % market share in November 2007.

Internet Usage Statistics is also important since a lot of people in Asia and Africa browse wireless.

World Internet Usage Statistics News and Population Stats (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm)

W3Schools is a Norwegian site. I do not know their background in statistics and how their statistics is computed.

Found this

SitePoint Blogs » Microsoft and Mozilla Disagree on Browser Security (http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/12/05/microsoft-and-mozilla-disagree-on-browser-security)

article today while I browsed SitePoint for some information.

Related article on IE 8.

SitePoint Blogs » Microsoft Names IE8, Bill Gates to ‘Look Into’ Transparency (http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/12/06/microsoft-names-ie8-bill-gates-to-look-into-transparency/)

Related links:
the 200ok weblog: browser security by fix rate (http://weblog.200ok.com.au/2007/01/browser-security-by-fix-rate.html)

Web Browser Security Summary (http://www.webdevout.net/browser-security)

That article seem to agree with me that Opera is the most secure browser still. I see no reason for changing my ranking.

Regarding best.
Isn't that what we all are striving for?

Best SEO company.
Best SE.
Best OS.
Best Browser.
Best on security.Competition is the driver for better products in a market economy.

ldylion214

12-07-2007, 12:28 PM

FF helped me alot with getting rid of unnecessary .asp code on .htm pages. My only problem with it is I want to see all the functions and tools in English. At first I thought I just downloaded the wrong one. :)
Nicci

deepsand

12-07-2007, 03:05 PM

I hate "THE BEST" debates, because their is no best in a well performing category. All of the browsers are THE BEST at something that the other browsers are not. In the end, we are all technically savvy enough to use the tools we want to, but the world is not full of webmasters, but webusers. They'll use what they like.

OFF TOPIC

I WON'T. He used one word, in a colloquial manner, and I don't see anything wrong with it, nor do I guess most users of this forum will. If he was CURSING OUT PEOPLE in an offensive manner using offensive words, well, then he'd get slammed. I cannot speak for the admins of the site, I'm just a mod, but this forum is a very large community, filled with wonderful (and wonderfully wierd) people from all around the world. Some people use the word shit, some don't, but in the time it took me to write this response, children have died from starvation, women across the world are being abused, people are dying from curable diseases, and George W. Bush is trying to start up another bruhaha in the Middle East (debatable, just my opinion) and that is a million times more offensive to me than one little shit.

Amen, on both points.

wige

12-07-2007, 04:33 PM

You find it here:

Browser Statistics (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp)

<snipped>

W3Schools is a Norwegian site. I do not know their background in statistics and how their statistics is computed.

The w3schools statistics are based on their own site only, and they point out on the stats page that they have a higher than typical number for Firefox, which they attribute to the nature of their audience - more technically savvy and web oriented than most sites.

The numbers I'd love to see are the ones collected by Google of course... :p

kgun

12-07-2007, 04:39 PM

The numbers I'd love to see are the ones collected by Google of course... :p

The best SE 8-)

I did not take the time to study their report in detail and how they are sampled. With more than 30 mill visitors/month, their statistics should be fairly representative for webmasters.

P.S. I have noted that Google is extremely fast to index what I write. WPW posts can even be indexed while I am editing the post. Multiple GoogleBOT's can also be present simultaneously on my forum. How many are then present simultaneously on a large forum like WPW?

Clint1

12-08-2007, 08:58 AM

Hi guys,
Can anyone tell me what is the main deference between IE and Mozilla Firefox ? I have been using IE (version 6.0) for one year but from now on I have decided to use Firefox. I just want to know as to what Mozilla can do which Internet Explorer can not.
Thanks!
I didn't read any of the posts on this thread because I didn't want to get into any stupid debate. ;) I use both because I need to check my sites in both. The objective facts are: FF is much slower than IE, and after all this time there are STILL no REAL TRUE full screen extensions/plugins for FF. It is these two reasons why it's not my main browser. Go to full screen in IE. Now, move your cursor down to the bottom and there the taskbar will popup giving you immediate and convenient access to any open apps or the address bar, Quick Launch Toolbar, etc. Now try it in FF. You can't. The only way to get to this bottom area that you can get to in IE is to exit out of full screen or you have to hit the "Windows" key on the keyboard. That's just plain stupid. If anyone knows of a full screen plugin that WORKS like IE does, please post it.

The other areas are: FF is much more customizable with a load of awesome plugins that do some really neat things. It may be more secure now, but that's quickly changing with it because more and more are using it, therefore the cyber-terrorists have more of an "incentive" to exploit it. There are also still a lot of sites out there that FF won't work properly with them.

If you want speed (and sensible full screen), use IE. If you rarely if ever use full screen and don't mind a browser being slower, and don't mind limited functionality at some sites, but want other nice features, use FF.

kgun

12-09-2007, 05:16 AM

I have to disagree, security is so important. Here is another related story about cross browser scripting (http://sla.ckers.org/forum/read.php?3,12752)

"Some colleagues and I have been doing some research into various URI schemes and we came across a very peculiar URI. This URI basically allows us to use IE to spawn an instance of FireFox (if the user has recent version of firefox2 installed on the machine). Normally, this wouldn't be too big of an issue, however in this case, we can pass arbitrary arguments to the URI, which ultimately get passed to FireFox.exe. With this in mind, we can initiate a UXSS if the user simply browses to my site with IE, and has a recent version of FireFox2 installed (XSS and CSRF apply)..... but WAIT.. it gets better... because we can control the arguments passed to FireFox.exe, we can do other fun things, like add a FireFox profile to the users machine (without user consent)".

Not only is it about security. It is also about malware and virus attacks.

ActiveX objects and security.
An ActiveX object is Microsoft's term for a reusable software component that provides encapsulated reusable functionality. In Internet Explorer, such objects normally give client-side scripting access to operating system facilities like the file system. I had to write this in red. If you do not see the consequences yourself, I can mention that this has great potential to corrupt and damage your system. It is one way to install key-loggers that steel your credit card number. It is one way to infiltrate your operating system and install malware, worms, Trojan horses and virus on your computer.

If this is not enough arguments for you to switch to another browser, there is a least one reason in the end of 2007 to switch to Opera. It is simply also much more secure for the sole reason that it is much harder to attack and it's market share is so small that it is not the primary target for hackers and intruders.

Source: Browser security - hidden for non registered users: ForumNorway.com :: Index (http://www.forumnorway.com)

Take it as ad or what ever. I don't worry any more. I am finished in this thread.

deepsand

12-09-2007, 09:11 PM

I have to disagree, security is so important. Here is another related story about cross browser scripting (http://sla.ckers.org/forum/read.php?3,12752)

[LEFT]"Some colleagues and I have been doing some research into various URI schemes and we came across a very peculiar URI. This URI basically allows us to use IE to spawn an instance of FireFox (if the user has recent version of firefox2 installed on the machine). Normally, this wouldn't be too big of an issue, however in this case, we can pass arbitrary arguments to the URI, which ultimately get passed to FireFox.exe. With this in mind, we can initiate a UXSS if the user simply browses to my site with IE, and has a recent version of FireFox2 installed (XSS and CSRF apply)..... but WAIT.. it gets better... because we can control the arguments passed to FireFox.exe, we can do other fun things, like add a FireFox profile to the users machine (without user consent)".

After much finger pointiny by both MS & Mozilla, each claiming the the fault lay in the other's browser, both admitted that they were subject to the same vulnerability; that looks like a draw to me.

Not only is it about security. It is also about malware and virus attacks.

[I]ActiveX objects and security.
An ActiveX object is Microsoft's term for a reusable software component that provides encapsulated reusable functionality. In Internet Explorer, such objects normally give client-side scripting access to operating system facilities like the file system. I had to write this in red. If you do not see the consequences yourself, I can mention that this has great potential to corrupt and damage your system. It is one way to install key-loggers that steel your credit card number. It is one way to infiltrate your operating system and install malware, worms, Trojan horses and virus on your computer. [/

Unfortunately, ActiveX is not alone in being vulnerable to used for undesirable purposes; there already exist many scripting techniques open to such. And, a widening use of AJAX will bring many more.

If this is not enough arguments for you to switch to another browser, there is a least one reason in the end of 2007 to switch to Opera. It is simply also much more secure for the sole reason that it is much harder to attack and it's market share is so small that it is not the primary target for hackers and intruders.

There is not now, nor will there ever be, a wholly secure browser.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

Martinscholes

12-20-2007, 08:40 PM

There are good and bad points about FF and IE. I like FF for the UK English spellchecker function. However, IE still works better for some tasks.

I am using them side-by-side on my laptop, now!:)

kgun

01-07-2008, 10:34 AM

There is not now, nor will there ever be, a wholly secure browser.

Agree.

ursfehr

01-18-2008, 09:15 AM

My favorite feature about Firefox is the fact that it remembers passwords allot better than IE, and if you, for whatever reason, lose your browser (if it crashes on you) you can restore your session.

deepsand

01-18-2008, 02:59 PM

My favorite feature about Firefox is the fact that it remembers passwords allot better than IE, ... .

Actually, IE remembers passwords as well as does FF; the difference lies in the user's ability to manage stored passwords.

FF allows one to view stored passwords, and remove them as needed; IE provides no such capability.

kgun

01-21-2008, 04:03 PM

And Opera has a master passord that makes it more secure to use that browser on your account.

deepsand

01-22-2008, 04:20 PM

And Opera has a master passord that makes it more secure to use that browser on your account.

As does FF.

carbonize

01-29-2008, 02:25 PM

Not reading every post but here's my 2 cents worth (God I hate that phrase)

1 - I use Firefox and have done since it was Firebird.
2 - Opera is far from perfect with a recent update being to patch no less than 3 exploits
3 - Opera fails the new Acid test 2 (or does it pass now? I should check) IE8 also passes as does Firefox 3
4 - If you run a Joomla site with Gzip turned on it will screw up in any browser identifying it's self as Opera. But tell Opera to ID as IE and it works fine. That's more than likely down to sloppy coding by Joomla.

I used to use Opera back around 6.5 but today I think the mail client sucks and Opera is getting to gimicky with it's bit torrent client and it's recent anti trust suit against Microsoft just stinks of a sore loser.

ran_dizolph

01-29-2008, 03:14 PM

From a developer point of view, Firefox has my vote, simply because IT DOES WHAT I TELL IT TO DO! It doesn't require fourteen hacks to get it display the way I had originally intended, it simply takes the instructions I give it, and displays the end result properly.

IE's not going away anytime soon, but I'd advise anyone who doesn't already to build in Firefox, fix for IE.

From a personal point of view, Firefox and Opera are getting close...I dig some of the new features Opera offers, but would be hard pressed to replace FF with it.

deepsand

01-29-2008, 11:33 PM

Not reading every post but here's my 2 cents worth (God I hate that phrase)

1 - I use Firefox and have done since it was Firebird.

One small quibble - FireFox & Firebird are 2 entirely different applications. The former is a Web Browser; the latter, a Database. See Firebird becomes Firefox | Geek.com (http://www.geek.com/firebird-becomes-firefox/) and History of Mozilla Firefox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mozilla_Firefox) .

carbonize

01-30-2008, 05:13 AM

What's to quibble about? I started using Firebird and then they changed the name to Firefox so my statement is perfectly valid.

deepsand

01-30-2008, 07:49 PM

What's to quibble about? I started using Firebird and then they changed the name to Firefox so my statement is perfectly valid.

The names Phoenix and Firebird were pre-release working names, not final product names.

ushuiah

01-31-2008, 02:45 PM

Before I use IE but when I try to use mozilla and found some good add-ons to use, I swicthed and until now mozilla is my browser.

kgun

02-01-2008, 12:53 PM

Security:

Tell me why your browser choice is a more secure browser.
That a page does not show well in Opera, may that be related to security?

imsickofwebpro

02-01-2008, 02:24 PM

cw1865

02-01-2008, 04:00 PM

for me, they all seem to work the same, the web page I want always seems to pop up.....

kgun

02-01-2008, 04:50 PM

for me, they all seem to work the same, the web page I want always seems to pop up.....

Then you are very selective in your surfing / browsing and careful when you log into your bank account and use your credit card. :rolleyes:

"for me, they all seem to work the same"

Agree, if you add from IE 7.0 and onwards.

deepsand

02-01-2008, 09:08 PM

I use IE7 and prefer it much over firefox.

IE7 comes standard with tabbing and uses anti-alias text (anti-alias is a big one). I actually find myself hacking out firefox and IE6 CSS over IE7. IE7 is a lot more forgiving when it comes to code structure too.

As far as all the plugins are concerned, I really haven't found any FF plugins that have significantly improved my web browsing experience. Most seem gimmicky.

Just my thoughts.

IE7's GUI is far from being either clean or intuitive; in those respects, I find IE6 to be the better.

That it may better handle variations in what you refer to as "code structure" no doubt owes in part to the number of sites that continue to use non-standard MS-centric features.

As for the value of FF plug-ins, such depends greatly upon the needs of the user, particularly if one is a developer rather than merely an end-user.

kgun

02-03-2008, 10:38 AM

IE7's GUI is far from being either clean or intuitive; in those respects, I find IE6 to be the better.

If you mean that, download the latest version of the Opera web browser (http://www.opera.com/) and click

view + style

and try the different options. Any comment?

Note:
Author mode, the author of the web document's style, is choosen by default. When you choose user mode, your own browser preferences (settings) take preference over the author's styling. There are a lot of additional options for disabled people etc.

Can this be the reason that you complain about how pages are presented in Opera? You have simply not understood the different and important settings (options) in the browser.

carbonize

02-03-2008, 10:47 AM

The names Phoenix and Firebird were pre-release working names, not final product names.
What difference does that make? Whether or nto it was the pre-release name or not Firefox was called Firebird when I first started using it. It was not called Firefox pre-release it was called Firebird.

IE7 is a lot more forgiving when it comes to code structure too.
And therefore helps to promote sloppy coding and bad practices. Accepting sloppy code is a bad thing not a good thing. It teaches people bad habits which they then have to try and unlearn once they realise that IE is not the only browser in the world.

And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons I've recently started messing with K-Meleon. It uses the Gecko engine but gives you alot more control over what you can see. You can quickly turn off images and flash. Can also quickly change the useragent.

kgun

02-03-2008, 10:56 AM

And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons I've recently started messing with K-Meleon. It uses the Gecko engine but gives you alot more control over what you can see. You can quickly turn off images and flash. Can also quickly change the useragent.

So K-Melon is the cat and the other browsers the pigeons:roll:

It uses the Gecko engine but gives you alot more control over what you can see.

Better than on Opera? Read what I wrote above. In addition I mean security is the most important aspect for surfers. Read what I have written repeatedly above. Is it more secure - than in my opionion on browser security - order of priority:

Opera.
FireFox
Internet Explorer. (Security zone settings is an illusion).Tell me that your credit card information were stolen, your computer infected, your bank account hacked and you experienced cross browser scripting. My first question: Which web browser did you use?

carbonize

02-03-2008, 11:05 AM

Better than on Opera?
Quite probably but I've not used Opera seriously in years. Download the pocket version of K-Meleon and take a look. Got nothing to lose.

Opera's perceived security is the same as that of the Mac. It is more secure than Windows/IE because few people use them and so 'hackers' tend to ignore them.

Have a look at Opera Changelogs (http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/windows/) and you will see that 9.22, 9.23, 9.24, 9.25 to name a few all contain updates to fix security issues.

Changes Since Opera 9.24
Security

* Fixed an issue where plug-ins could be used to allow cross domain scripting, as reported by David Bloom. Details will be disclosed at a later date.
* Fixed an issue with TLS certificates that could be used to execute arbitrary code, as reported by Alexander Klink (Cynops GmbH). Details will be disclosed at a later date.
* Rich text editing can no longer be used to allow cross domain scripting, as reported by David Bloom. See our advisory.
* Prevented bitmaps from revealing random data from memory, as reported by Gynvael Coldwind. Details will be disclosed at a later date.

Changes Since Opera 9.23
Security

* Fixed an issue where external news readers and e-mail clients could be used to execute arbitrary code, as reported by Michael A. Puls II. See our advisory.
* Fixed an issue where scripts could overwrite functions on pages from other domains. See the advisory. Issue reported to Opera by David Bloom.

Changes Since Opera 9.22
Security

* Fixed a JavaScript security issue discovered with Mozilla's jsfunfuzz tool. See our advisory.

Changes Since Opera 9.21
Security

* Fixed an issue that could occur when removing a specially prepared torrent transfer, as reported by iDefense. See the advisory.
* Prevented an issue where data URLs could be used to display the wrong address in the address bar. See the advisory.

kgun

02-03-2008, 11:18 AM

Yes on most of the browsers that is or should be an issue, since advanced redirects, hacking, cross browser and server scripting, fishing and pharming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharming) is getting more and more advanced.

On Norwegian Tv yesterday, there was a program about stealing online identity etc. In 2007 there were if I remeber correct more than 100 million online identity thefts in one form or another in the USA. It is a less problem here because of the indirect "security in our language" It is estimated that this will get worse in the future and about 10 % will experience security exploits. There is no browser that can eliminate this, but it can be reduced by using the correct browser and streamline browser settings.

There is a constant race out there between hackers and browser coders that will go on as long as there are surfers on the world wide web and web browsers are used for surfing.

Do you mean that the relatively infrequent updates of Internet Explorer is an advantage?

carbonize

02-03-2008, 11:32 AM

Is anything about IE an advantage? Hopefully IE 8 will be a revelation.

Given that all browsers are free I recommend that everybody tries them all then settles on the one they prefer. I mean you have Opera, IE, Firefox, K-Meleon, Safari (still beta on Windows) and countless IE shells such as Maxthon and Avant.

Wonder what Windows would be like if it used the Gecko engine to render it's Windows stuff instead of the IE engine.

kgun

02-03-2008, 11:43 AM

Given that all browsers are free I recommend that everybody tries them all then settles on the one they prefer. I mean you have Opera, IE, Firefox, K-Meleon, Safari (still beta on Windows) and countless IE shells such as Maxthon and Avant.

Yes for webmasters, I agree. I use three of them daily.

For the online surfers I definitely disagree. If we as webmasters know that one browser is more secure than another browser, it is a good advice to advice them to use that browser.

100 million and more identity thefts in the USA in 2007. How many of them could have been avoided by using another browser?

Have you never been contacted by a surfer that tells that hers/his favourite home page has been lost, and (s)he ask you how (s)he shall get it back?

Conclusion:
Security is the most important aspect for the average surfer, and (s)he have to get a good and up do date advice on which browser you as a professional think is best.

A page is not viewable in a browser. Can the reason be security (e.g. bad redirect)?

Is anything about IE an advantage? Hopefully IE 8 will be a revelation.

What about Opera 10.0? What about XML driven sites? (http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-resources-discussion-forum/64362-xml-driven-site-read-here.html)

more precisely this

http://www.webproworld.com/submit-your-site-review/65074-please-review-my-xml-xslt-site.html#post350365

link.

Page search (CTRLF) on the page. KW's:

Google

Internet Explorer

Opera

carbonize

02-03-2008, 12:20 PM

Nothing puts me off a site faster than it telling me that it looks better in a certain browser at a certain resolution.

BTW that XML driven site renders fine in Firefox 3.

I should start a debate on if the direction web design is taking is a good thing or not. With some of the CSS level 3 specs it is getting more like programming and less like designing.

Oh and as to the identity theft problem whilst using a good browser would help (all three major browsers now have phishing filters built in) nothing will replace common sense and better educating people to the danger of phishing and how to avoid it. And yes I know not all identity theft is via phishing sites. Networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace have also got a lot to answer for letting people post their details on a web page without first informing them of the possible dangers.

I've always felt their should be an international organisation that can police the internet properly. With powers to do such things as close down hosts who happily host abusers. Countries that ignore this organisations advice could get their connection to the rest of the world cut or restricted. Draconian I know but I can see no other way of stopping companies like LayeredTech and all the piracy sites.

kgun

02-03-2008, 02:21 PM

Kevin Yank writes about

Simply javascript: The Three Layers of the Web [JavaScript & AJAX Tutorials] (http://www.sitepoint.com/article/simply-javascript)

In my viwe there are four layers:

What can be done at the lowest level on the web server

On an Apache server:

Network and System Administration I 10 (http://www.iu.hio.no/teaching/materials/MS002A/index.phtml?show=L10.en&week=10)

Testing my sites in this

Search engine SPAM detector (http://tool.motoricerca.info/spam-detector/)

and I get a lot of hidden text warnings, even if all of them are part of the DreamWeaver templates (navigation). A nightmare If I have to correct that.

deepsand

02-03-2008, 07:44 PM

What difference does that make? Whether or nto it was the pre-release name or not Firefox was called Firebird when I first started using it. It was not called Firefox pre-release it was called Firebird.

The difference is that there is a released product named Firebird, that Firefox was never released under the name in question, and that not all here know of such.

And, why are you making such a big deal of what I clearly stated as being a "small" quibble?

deepsand

02-03-2008, 07:51 PM

If you mean that, download the latest version of the Opera web browser (http://www.opera.com/) and click

view + style

and try the different options. Any comment?

Note:
Author mode, the author of the web document's style, is choosen by default. When you choose user mode, your own browser preferences (settings) take preference over the author's styling. There are a lot of additional options for disabled people etc.

Can this be the reason that you complain about how pages are presented in Opera? You have simply not understood the different and important settings (options) in the browser.

Was this intended as reply to another?

Given that my post to which you replied was re. a comparison of IE6 & IE7, I suspect so.

voiceover

02-04-2008, 03:17 AM

Firefox is absolutely the best browser there is. I really like the add-ons. It makes the browser more personal and fits to your every needs. Highly recommended.

kgun

02-04-2008, 05:48 AM

Was this intended as reply to another?

Given that my post to which you replied was re. a comparison of IE6 & IE7, I suspect so.

It was a general answer. By you above, I meant a person. As a webmaster, I think you know Opera well enough and may be better than me.

carbonize

02-04-2008, 06:23 AM

As a webmaster, I think you know Opera well enough and may be better than me.

Sarcasm? Webmaster is just a term used for someone who has built a website. It in no way means that person is any good at web design or web site building. I know plenty of webmasters who's only skill is being able to edit templates in Frontpage.

As to a webmaster knowing a web browser well that's hokum. A lot of webmasters, specially those covered by my previous paragraph, seem to think that either IE is the only web browser or that so long as it looks right in IE it will look right to everyone.

I personally test my work in as many browsers as possible. On my laptop I have IE6, IE7, Firefox 2, Firefox 3, Opera 9.25, Safari 3 and K-Meleon 1.3 (I think). I also have a Ubuntu Live CD so I can see what they look like in various Linux browsers and, when I can get hold of him, a friend of mine tests on his Mac.

deepsand

02-04-2008, 05:40 PM

Firefox is absolutely the best browser there is.

Absolutely?

Which tool is absolutely the best for working with nuts and bolts?

1> An open-end wrench:
2> A box wrench;
3> A crescent wrench;
4> A pipe wrench;
5> A ratchet wrench (socket plus ratchet bar);
6> A torque wrench (socket plus torque bar);
7> Channel-lock pliers;
8> Vice-grip pliers; or,
9> Other tool.

A browser is but a tool; and, as with other tools, there is no such thing as one that is "absolutely the best" for any task. Which is the better suited for the task at hand depends on what that specific task is, what tools are available, and how skilled the user is at using each.

deepsand

02-04-2008, 05:54 PM

Sarcasm? Webmaster is just a term used for someone who has built a website. It in no way means that person is any good at web design or web site building. I know plenty of webmasters who's only skill is being able to edit templates in Frontpage.

As to a webmaster knowing a web browser well that's hokum. A lot of webmasters, specially those covered by my previous paragraph, seem to think that either IE is the only web browser or that so long as it looks right in IE it will look right to everyone.

I personally test my work in as many browsers as possible. On my laptop I have IE6, IE7, Firefox 2, Firefox 3, Opera 9.25, Safari 3 and K-Meleon 1.3 (I think). I also have a Ubuntu Live CD so I can see what they look like in various Linux browsers and, when I can get hold of him, a friend of mine tests on his Mac.

kjun's post makes a statement that is neither absolute nor categorical.

That such is not the former is clearly evidenced by his use of the phrase "I think."

That it is not the latter is evidenced by the fact that his post was specifically directed to and about me.

Furthermore, you assume that the word "webmaster" referenced myself rather than he himself, even though its placement strongly suggests otherwise. Even were such assumption correct, my inclusion in the class "webmaster" should not be taken to mean that he excludes me from all other classes. As for how he may have concluded that I should be considered a member of said class, and how he knows that I am a member of other pertinent classes, is left as an exercise for yourself.

carbonize

02-04-2008, 06:06 PM

His message referenced webmasters and claimed they should know about different web browsers. My response is in answer to this and does not matter to whom he was referring or what he knows about that person. My post was about the fact that the term webmaster is usually self imposed and does not in any way indicate a level of knowledge or skill.

For once it would be nice to see a post from you that is not trying to attack someone by quoting their post out of context.

deepsand

02-04-2008, 08:52 PM

His message referenced webmasters and claimed they should know about different web browsers. My response is in answer to this and does not matter to whom he was referring or what he knows about that person. My post was about the fact that the term webmaster is usually self imposed and does not in any way indicate a level of knowledge or skill..

To the contrary, kgun made no claim re. webmasters.

For once it would be nice to see a post from you that is not trying to attack someone by quoting their post out of context.

Interesting, considering that that is precisely what you are doing re. kguns post!

carbonize

02-04-2008, 09:50 PM

As a webmaster, I think you know Opera well enough and may be better than me.

Looks like a reference to webmasters to me.

And was I attacking Kgun? I think not.

It's idiots like you that made people like myself and a few others stop coming here a few years ago and now I am starting to see that things haven't improved any since then.

If you don't have anything intelligent to say don't say anything at all.

--

Now to get the topic back on track have you ever tried the Off By One browser? Try your websites in that for a laugh. It's a self contained browser that only supports HTML 3.02.

deepsand

02-04-2008, 10:01 PM

Looks like a reference to webmasters to me.

Not only have you demonstrated a tendency to be less than precise in your writing, you've also evidenced a bent for uncritical reading.

Get someone else to explain kgun's post to you; my efforts in that regard are at an end.

As for your reference to "(my) sites," you've assumed facts not in evidence.

And, your ad hominem remarks are unworthy of response.

carbonize

02-04-2008, 10:07 PM

That's the thing about reading. Things can be taken the wrong way. So unless you are kgun under a different name how can you say for sure what he meant? You appear to be the one with a problem understanding peoples posts since you constantly have to criticise them. But then we both know that you try and put people down in an effort to make yourself clever. It's the sort of thing I thought I'd left behind when I left the schooling system over 15 years ago.

Go ahead and post another load of tripe. I certainly won't be responding unless you actually post something intelligent and relevant to the topic of this thread.

deepsand

02-04-2008, 10:53 PM

... it would be nice to see a post from you that is not trying to attack someone by quoting their post out of context.

... you constantly have to criticise them. ... you try and put people down in an effort to make yourself clever.

I look forward to your proofs of such claims.

ctabuk

02-05-2008, 03:04 AM

And at this conjure to I say - Deepsand - you have reported a post, yet from having read the entire thread I have to say that you need to concentrate on the topic. Not on individuals with whom you disagree with. Always provide as much evidence to support a post as is possible. Please stay on topic.

Martinscholes

02-09-2008, 06:10 PM

I have noticed that Mozilla crashes a little more than IE.

It also "forgets" passwords sometimes.

And sometimes sites do not appear properly in Mozilla.

deepsand

02-09-2008, 06:38 PM

I have noticed that Mozilla crashes a little more than IE.

It also "forgets" passwords sometimes.

And sometimes sites do not appear properly in Mozilla.

Are you speaking of the Mozilla browser, or of Mozilla Firefox?

I've observed very many instance of IE appearing to lose both user-IDs & passwords, which are stored in Window's "Protected Storage" area.

However, I've yet to observe such with Firefox, which stores such data in its own, backed-up files.

Martinscholes

02-09-2008, 07:49 PM

deepsand

02-09-2008, 08:17 PM

I mean the Mozilla Firefox Browser.

I still use it, but am becoming aware that it is not quite as good as some people claim.

I mean, it's good, but it does unpredictable stuff, sometimes. Like not recalling passwords. ;)

What version of FF are you using?

Have you noticed the problem on multiple machines? If you've observed it on one machine only, the problem may lie outside FF itself.

I'm still using 1.5, which does have some memory usage problems, with the effect that too many open windows/tabs can bring a machine to its knees.

As for being as good as some claim, I find that those who claim that FF is without peer are, like many of the Mac fanatics, usually zealots who simply despise Microsoft.

carbonize

02-10-2008, 05:49 AM

I personally use FF 3 beta 2. As to sites not appearing properly in Firefox this is down to sloppy coding by the web designer and not down to any problem with Firefox.

If you want something that uses the Gecko engine but has a smaller footprint that Firefox try K-Meleon which seems faster to me.

kgun

02-10-2008, 10:45 AM

May be the heading of this thread should have been changed to.

Is Mozilla (FF) the browser with most add ons / plugins and toolbars???

Examples:

Firebug - Web Development Evolved (http://www.getfirebug.com/) Great tool.
Firebug Lite (http://www.getfirebug.com/lite.html)
Spread Firefox | The Home of Firefox Community Marketing (http://www.spreadfirefox.com/) I do not share the message (If you don't already have the fastest, most secure, most customizable web browser, get it for free today!) in the Download window.
Firefox - Download the new firefox web browser (http://www.getfirefox.net/)Related???: FireBug (http://firebug.sourceforge.net/)

Question: A lot of third party plugins and toolbars. What is the security consequence?

P.S. In addition I doubt the other messages. Fastest? Is the code more compact than Opera's? What I know is that when Opera was 300 Kb, IE was 15 Mb! Opera could run on a 386 machine. IE could not. Nevertheless, my redcarpetranking above is based on security. As ctabuk has done, you have to read this thread at last one (preferrably two) time(s) to understand why.

Conclusion february 2008: Use the latest version of Opera for secure surfing, especially when you buy online. That does not imply that you shall not use common sence. There is no 100 % secure web browser.

Martinscholes

02-10-2008, 11:38 AM

What version of FF are you using?

Have you noticed the problem on multiple machines? If you've observed it on one machine only, the problem may lie outside FF itself.

I'm still using 1.5, which does have some memory usage problems, with the effect that too many open windows/tabs can bring a machine to its knees.

As for being as good as some claim, I find that those who claim that FF is without peer are, like many of the Mac fanatics, usually zealots who simply despise Microsoft.

I am using the latest version, and the problems I noticed existed on two different computers, a laptop and a new tower system.

I recall criticising FF to someone who was clearly a fanatic and a bit of a twit. too! His 'killer' response was: "Well, you can't expect too much from Firefox! It is free, you know!" :D

kgun

02-10-2008, 12:45 PM

In a sense the only web browser (in my personal view the worst of the three, especially on security) that is not free is IE when it comes preinstalled on a new computer. The free version of Opera is AdDriven. There is a paid ad free version. Opera would most probably not existed without ad and the paid version.

When you buy a new Dell, you can buy it cheaper without OS (and browser). You simply configure the computer yourself and pay for what you need.

carbonize

02-11-2008, 05:46 AM

The free version of Opera is AdDriven. There is a paid ad free version.

Last I checked there is only one version of Opera now and it's free. They stopped trying to make people pay for it a few years ago.

Or am I wrong?

BTW in my opinion Opera and Firefox are as secure as each other. Both have exploits which they patch regularly.

kgun

02-11-2008, 10:30 AM

One example in a hurry. Try dragging the URL of a page to the desktop in the three browsers. Do you see any difference? Can it be security related?
What do you know about security zones in IE, and security settings in FF (is it still based on privileges?) and Opera? Do you regard security zones and privileges as secure?
I thought there was a paid verson of Opera. But I am no more related to Opera than you aside from the fact that the browser is made in Norway.Webmasters should of course test a page in as many browsers as possible. There is one important reason to use FireFox when developing pages, Firebug (http://www.getfirebug.com/). Does that tool test for JavaScript browser security?

And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons I've recently started messing with K-Meleon.

Where is your cat? Hidden fox agenda?:roll:

Side remark: K-Meleon, not "Kamelon" = Norwegian for camelot;)

kgun

02-11-2008, 11:00 AM

I think this thread will go on and on. A temporary final remark.

By best browser, I mean best for the surfer where I put all the weight on security to rank browsers, as long as a browser renders standard normal pages normally. Bad redirects, pop ups, ActiveX controls are examples of what I personally regard as a potential security risk. More pages should be blocked by a browser. Warning on bad pages is done wrongly in somer browsers, IMO. Some browsers give the impression that they are secure. They are not.

Toolbars and plugins from third parties are a security risk. I surfed the web as administrator, and my computer was infected. It was just after a toolbar upgrade without saying that was the reason.

carbonize

02-11-2008, 11:10 AM

Is a fox a cat? Last I checked it was more kin to the dog family ;)

I admit I use Firefox as my primary browser. But I have cookies disabled and use SpywareBlaster and SpyBot to immunise my system. I have several browsers on my laptop for testing and occasionally use a different one when surfing just because I can.

Given your stance on security I think you would like K-Meleon since it makes it easy to disable things like redirects, images, cookies, javascript etc.

My final stance (probably) is that no browser is 100% secure (despite what they might say) but IE probably has the most holes or is possibly just the most targeted as it is the most used.

Opera is classed as more secure for the same reason, in my opinion, Macs are. People who make worms or web pages to exploit browsers are not going to make a worm/web page that wil only affect a very small percentage of people.

kgun

02-11-2008, 11:46 AM

Ok, some very personal opinions.

From a birds eye view, the internet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet), the infra structure for the World Wide Web (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web), is a collection of computer nodes (web servers) that delivers documents based on a DOM node tree.
Most of the documents are a static HTML tag soup like (X)HTML with bad taste. There is one main data structure, a node tree.
Here is one example (http://www.kjellbleivik.com/snippets/deflist) that I made today. How many use definition lists? How many use blockquote correctly? Look at the source.
HTML is very easy to use, but was a disaster from the very beginning. From the very beginning is should be based on SGML or alt least the strict subset XML that allows a dynamic tag set and implement strict well-formedness rules.
There should be more flexibility on datastructures than node trees, for a web resource residing on an URI (IRI (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt)).
Web standards are a nightmare, especially how they are implemented in different browsers.
A better internet (http://www.internet2.org/) is being build and a science of the web is emerging (http://www.webscience.org/) (the site is down here when writing these few lines). Hopefully the new infrastructure will open for stricter browser and markup standards and more flexibilities in datastructures without giving up a model comparable to HTML in simplicity.
Security: The new internet should implement best default practices on security in a pattern (ftp://ftp.daimi.au.dk/pub/beta/betabook/betabook.pdf) or class that can be plugged directly into your sites code, preferrably by a one liner. The same could apply to web browsers.Related WPW thread:
http://www.webproworld.com/google-discussion-forum/63125-ignore-misunderstandings-have-produced-present-world.html#post339093

(C) kgun and WPW. Set a standard and link to this post if you got some ideas from it and make an article out of those ideas.

deepsand

02-13-2008, 11:05 PM

I am using the latest version, and the problems I noticed existed on two different computers, a laptop and a new tower system.

I recall criticising FF to someone who was clearly a fanatic and a bit of a twit. too! His 'killer' response was: "Well, you can't expect too much from Firefox! It is free, you know!" :D

Would the "latest version" by any chance be the beta version of FF3?

kgun

02-14-2008, 11:30 AM

Firefox may be the best browser for webmasters, because of all the plugins, that you have to trust (I will still not reccomend it for the surfer). But there are security reason to test a page thoroughly in Opera.

carbonize

02-14-2008, 11:43 AM

. o 0 (And how much does kgun get paid by Opera?)

I have said it before, I'll say it again. As far as I am concerned Opera is no more secure than Firefox.

kgun

02-14-2008, 12:06 PM

Is FF's security model still based on previleges?

Nobody has answered the simple question given above, related to the fact that it is impossible to drag an URL from the address field in Opera to the desktop. Since you say:

<quote>
I have said it before, I'll say it again. As far as I am concerned Opera is no more secure than Firefox.
</quote>

you should be able to answer that simple question.

I think none of us can say 100 % since, we do not know the code. I have my preferences that is not consiously related to the country where the browser is made.

kgun

02-14-2008, 12:15 PM

. o 0 (And how much does kgun get paid by Opera?)
Not a single penny. I was an affiliate (I do not have control over all my pages) but think I have deleted most of the outdated banners.

If I had any relation to Opera, the first thing I would advice them to, is to use more and may be more professional affilate providers. Norwegians have traditionally been horrible on ad.

Example:
Simula (multiple inheritance in the 1960's - modern OOP landuages do not have that) and BETA (patterns, compact and still ahead of time). Strostrup (a Dane) made C++. Another made C# that may be billion industry. A Dane is as far as I know also involved in Ruby, that is too simple for some projects, but simple enough for Average Joe's ad site or online shop.