The Brandy Update Exposed

[Garrett]

If you're a forum regular you know by now that Google's results are changing again (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=13845). I hope your rankings improve.

This latest update, dubbed Brandy, (we thought it should be called Brittany (http://www.webproworld.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=197)...) was accurately predicted (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=13845) last week by the guys at Stepforth.

While this update has not yet fully rolled out to all the datacenters, you can search the new Google here: http://64.233.161.105/

What difference do you notice?

So what's different now? Andy Beal said that it "looks like they have tweaked things to include a lot more "authority" sites that were previously not included." This speaks to the Stepforth announcement that Google had increased the number of links that they recognize.

Daniel Brandt from over at Google-Watch.org said that he's seeing "lots of Austin type results in many categories." About the change in results he said "It's too early [to tell what the difference is], or not a very impressive update."

"In this case the change is not as significant as Florida or Austin. I don't think it will be as sticky," he concluded.

GoogleGuy, a Google spokesperson who posts at WebMasterWorld, verified the update and gave a rough timeline for its roll out, "I just talked to somebody else at Google. Sounds like 64.x.x.x is indeed the wave of the future. They did say that it may roll out over several days instead of being done over the weekend though."

In answer to a poster's question on whether the Brandy update was a move back to pre-Florida results GoogleGuy said, "we've definitely been working to incorporate new signals of quality and improve the way that we rank pages, so the results at the 64.x.x.x data center are not a rollback or pre-Florida results--it's several steps forward based on new ways of gauging quality and relevance."

Visit this Google datacenter: http://64.233.161.105/ and see what differences you notice.

[cbp]

My $0.02:

1) GG keeps using the words "signals of quality" - we need to work out exactly what Google is looking at for this.

2) The 'barrier' for a site to be deemed an authority appears to have been lowered (as said in Garrett's message).

CBP

[Mel]

While it may not be a roll back the results I have checked on several sites are suspicuosly similar to pre-Florida results, so if the "signals of quality" is a reality, is seems to indicate tacit admission that many good sites which were dropped in Florida and which are now back, were dropped in error.

One disturbing thing however is that many of the website farms (twenty to fifty sites owned by a single company interlinking for ranking) are back after being dropped in Florida.

[orthodoc]

I just checked the new Google (Brandy) and found my site to be the first or second site listed for my principal keywords (massage therapy, clinical massage therapy, medical massage therapy). That's somewhat better than the previous Google version, where I only got top billing for clinical massage therapy. Needless to say, I like it.

[WebMetro]

On a monthly basis I optimize websites for about 50 clients. After carefully reviewing the SERPS on 64. there are a few things that stand out.

This is what I have seen:

Clients with networks of sites interlinked - Bad Update
Duplicate content issues - Bad Update
Lots of incoming links with strong anchor text - Good Update
Large website with thousands of pages - Good Update

It seems anchor text is much stronger in this update, but people who relied on dozens of websites interlinking will continue to suffer with this update. One way to recover, build other links besides your own internal link structure.

This is most defiantly not a roll back to pre-florida. The only thing that is similar is the fact that anchor text is counting much more in this update. Google has done a great job with Austin and Brandy by getting rid of subdomain spam and niche portal spam. The SERPS are much cleaner.

[xjones]

Hi:

Almost all of my sites were in the top ten for my main keywords before FL update.

I check the Google IP address and some of them are coming back for my main keywords within the top 20.

Good news for me I hop ;-)

[achronister]

Clients with networks of sites interlinked - Bad Update
Duplicate content issues - Bad Update
Lots of incoming links with strong anchor text - Good Update
Large website with thousands of pages - Good Update


I agree with WebMetro. I have come to the same conclusion. Most (not all however) of the interlinked networks of sites dropped considerably and large site with strong links jumped. I personally moved up to #3 from #15 out of 2.1 million results so it is certainly to my advantage. Many of my competitors were using crosslinking spam to rank high.

Aaron

[netbossmedia]

I just looked at the new Google update's and I am pleased to announce that one of my company's main websites - NationalForeclosures.com is back in the top 10 Rankings! Since 1994 NationalForeclosures.com has been ranked in the top 10 of the keyword - "foreclosures" - the November updates changed that dramatically by being dropped completely! Traffic took a nose-dive, but now the new updates show NationalForeclosures.com ranked #7 out of over 5 MILLION results, as was mentioned in the article regarding "authoritive" websites being included - I can say that seems to be the case.

The keyword "foreclosures" has been the most searched keyword in the real estate sector and was commanding upwards of $2 per hit in Overture & Googles's AdWord programs.

Glad to be back in the top 10 on the merit of site is fantastic!

Ric Carter
NationalForeclosures.com

[teleconnect]

I was excited over the weekend when I seen what looked like pre-florida results appearing under this new update - we were #5 for "consumer mailing lists and #6 - for "business mailing lists" for well over 3 years pre-florida...However just checked a few min ago and looks like some of the "florida garbage results" (thats what I call them) are seeping back into the update....My site was #4 Sat/Sun "consumer mailing lists" - this just got pushed to page 2, Business mailing lists was #5 Sat/sun - this just got pushed to page 7 today - How or Why I do not know.
Marty Screeton
http:///teleconect.com

[rambodog]

Today, I have one commercial client's site that has moved two listings into the top 50 on a very competitive 2 word search term. The site was in the top 10 until Florida. I can verify it happened today because this is a term I watch on googlealert.com. This is a site with heavy textual unique content that had no "spammy" techniques used on it at any time. It did have very heavy keyword density on the index page because of the nature of the industry. I have not checked sites that require manual review yet.

It's possible some of the Florida havoc may be swinging back.

[marionj]

Up until recently our site showed up in the top 5 when searching for "web design saint charles illinois" and as of the last few days (sorry I can't pinpoint when it happened) we are like 65th. And believe me, there are only 3 or 4 web design companies actually located here. There are transportation companies, Lasik companies, hotels, Winnebagos, bicycles, etc. showing up before we do now! This is a major aggravation and the link provided today to the "new" Brandy update hasn't helped us at all.

[alienzhavelanded]

I am sick sick sick sick of Google and their updates! My site ONCE ranked well with them on certain keywords until the Florida update. It still consistently ranks well with the other engines that don't rely on Google results. It even appears in some of the smallest SE's on the planet, but does it appear correctly in Google? NO, and I've about had it with their overrated, overhyped, ridiculous algorithms. Thanks a bunch Google!

As for my site's actual listing, it doesn't even show the title and description tags, even though they are there. Thank you so much Google!

To top it all off, if you search on the keywords I once ranked on, the first page of results are nothing but MARKETING pages, pages that just LIST different designers. None of them are even sites of actual designers. There was even a site in the top 10 that was about PETS. Kiss off Google!

This new update shows no difference, and personally I think its a bunch of bs, including the stupid names.

Google search results suck, theyre terrible, and I've about had it up to here with them. I think I'll use other search engines from now on. Thanks for nothing, Google, you greedy idiots.

Sorry, I had to vent. Hope no one was offended.

Happy coding,
The Martians

[cbp]

As for my site's actual listing, it doesn't even show the title and description tags, even though they are there. Thank you so much Google!


There's your problem - thats called partial indexing. It means that Google knows about your URL but has not or can not crawl it for a reason. Thats why you are not ranking well - Google has no information on your site.

You need look at what is causing the problem preventing Google do this.

CBP

[minstrel]

Here's your problem, alienzhavelanded - a bad robots.txt file - you are telling ALL spiders to ignore everything. Assuming you want to exclude only NPBot (whatever that is), add the line in red below "User-agent: *", followed by a blank line. If you don't want NPBot to spider anything, all you need is the "Disallow: /" line below the "User-agent: NPBot" line:



User-agent: *
Disallow:

User-agent: NPBot
Disallow: /

[jstarkweather]

Dang Minstrel you are good at finding those bad robot.txt files. :)

Nice one.

Disallow: /

You just disallowed spidering your whole site! Doh!

And I am not seeing a big difference on my sites results with the new datacenter. Oh well I do pretty well as it is. I happen to be one webmaster who likes and appriciates google. Considering they send me like 80% of my search response hits that is.

Jim

[Webdango]

The Florida update didn't hurt me.

The Austin update saw my Google traffic cut in half. It hit me in the head with a bat.

The Brandy update has stuck the knife in my still quivering corpse.

What few respectable keyword positions I managed to keep through Austin are now 90% gone.

Every night before I go to bed I say a prayer:
Now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the LOrd my soul to keep
If I die before I wake
I pray the Lord my soul to take.

And Lord? Please put Google out of business and make everyone there penniless paupers begging for change on the street corner.

Amen.

[cbp]

webdango

This may sound a little harsh and please do not take it the wrong way

...from the three sites in your signature, your business model appears to be 3 sites filled with affiliate links without actually offering any value (2 of them are very similar) - ask yourself honestly, why would Google want to rank such a site high? - I assume Google does the same - they are looking for 'signals of quality'. DMOZ certainly would not consider them important enough to list.

CBP

[alienzhavelanded]

Hmm...this is strange, because I still have spiders visiting, and results are only wrong on Google. But I will modify the robots file and see what happens. =(
Thanks for the help.

Happy coding,
The Martian

[minstrel]

The error in the robots.txt file won't stop spiders from visiting your site, alienzhavelanded - it's just that when they arrive they will see a notice saying "do not index" and leave again, so you would still see "visits" from the spiders in your logs. Unfortunately, all they will be "indexing" is the robots.txt file.

As for why you are still listed in other engines, perhaps that's because they update or "prune" less often... I'm not sure.

[Jim-Grill]

It seems to me that some of the "old pros" who were dropped in the Florida update are back in this update. ...at least for the areas I've been watching and am familiar with. The Florida update seemed a little harsh for people who had optimized sites even though they were within the Google guidelines. I have personally benefited from this update... the Florida update killed me.

From looking at the SERPS for some of the keywords related to sites I am working on, it appears that nothing beats lots of good content that changes frequently. Some of the sites that I let stagnate over the past few months are not doing so well while the ones with fresh content seem to be doing much better. I'm also noticing that pages that are linked from the home page are ranking incredibly well.

Check this one out:

go to the new google at http://64.233.161.105/
search for "wood blinds" the first result is mine "wbsfactory.com". This site has been around for years and used to be number one all over Google until the summer of '02.

On that site all the products are listed on the left column. Search for each of the product names on the new google. "1" Wood Blinds", "2" Premium Faux", etc., etc. ...they are almost all number one positions. Here's the pattern: The link text from the home page, the title, and the first heading in the content section of the page are all the same. I've noticed this same pattern for some other sites in different industries as well.

Sorry to write such a long post. I'm just amazed at how simplicity seems to be winning. Maybe Google figured out how to stop cheaters and over-optimizers in the Florida update and just had to turn it down a little this time around to keep from hurting honest sites that are optimized fairly.

[Deep13]

well i will just say google is keeping everyone happy and removing spam from searches...

i am following google's update for since florida..

in florida there was spam and slowly slowly its almost no spam with this new update brandy...

i had seen sites with keyords written in the bottom of the page (25 lines of keywords) coming top in the searches but now those sites are no where in the listing..

and true SE friendly sites are coming in the top,

I am really happy with this update..

regards
Deep

[celox]

As for my site's actual listing, it doesn't even show the title and description tags, even though they are there. Thank you so much Google!

Do you use any WYSIWYG CMS (content management system)? The reason I ask is we had identical problems with one of the sites we were optimizing few months ago: the site had good SERPs in many other SEs than google or those using goole results. We checked many factors. What we found is that the only thing leading to such bad results on the most popular SE was the CMS they were using. If this is your case as well than see below how you can check it out.

There are spider simulators (aka sim-spiders). The one we used can be downloaded here: http://www.searchengineworld.com/ (can't be accessed directly, search for 'sim spider' on the page). The test results clearly shown that the spider didn't 'see' the domain name, all the sim-spider saw was the pages names, i.e. http://londonweather.html/ note the lack of domain name. And that's what the Google and other main SE' spiders were getting. How can they index correctly the site (~all the pages) when only one url (the index) out of 60 pages is correct.. Which most probably leads to why DMOZ didn't index the site.

At that time the site owner still didn't want to get rid of the CMS. They were stating: 1. the pages are 'seen' 100% correctly no matter whether this is a browser (user) or a spider and 2. the CMS doesn't make changes to code / urls within page code.

Thus the sim spider results proved that the second theory is incorrect.

As for the first statement. The owner side insisted that it doesn't matter whether this is a user/visitor or a spider, that they see exactly same way the page(s). Will draw this table, hope WPW does not wrap text...

_____________ /*.html
I User/browser I ________ _______ ____________
I I <--I I <--I I <---------------------- I CMX /html I index.html
I Spider I--> I Internet I-->I Apache I --> CMS -->I___________ I
I____________ I I_________I<--I I -->PHP------------->I *.php I
I_______ I <---------------------- I___________ I index.php
/*.index.php


Let's see what happens according to their theory:

The user/browser or spider is addressing to Apache (via Internet) for an domainname.com/.html file. As many know, usually when CMS used Apache is configured in such a way that, when it calls for a .html page the server takes it from CMS_folder/html folder only (or other, the point is *not* from root). And respectively, the CMS is parsing the info received and shows it to the user.
So far the client theory was correct. But it's not an axiom.

Given the fact that we didn't have access to the server itself, we couldn't make changes to how the Apache is giving .html pages. But what we could do is use the PHP as part of Apache server and re-model this same situation. First off, we have created in PHP an *exact copy* of the index.html and called it index.php. You can see on the schematic above that, in case of index.php the Apache server is calling the PHP which provides the index.php which is given to user broswer / spider simulator *without* parsing.

The spiders and browsers see the pages differently when WYSIWYG CMS used. The client got rid of that CMS. Which you should do as well if this is your case. SE's get 302 (our case) or 304 message which means, in short "use local copy". An excerpt from RFC documentation on 304 :

{Document has not changed since the date and time specified in the If-Modified-Since field.}
Thus, the spider won't go deeper into the site when you have 304 status.

Only later we saw this CMS/spiders interrelation article which re-confirmed our suspicions.

http://www.searchenginejournal.com/index.php?m=20040202

[budneyc]

I am very happy with the Brandy Update. I was sent into never never land for many search terms after Florida. I feel that part of the reason was my keyword density and have reduced my keyword usage over the last few months. Now with the new update, I am on page 1 again for many popular keywords. I have also noticed many of the strange listings after Florida (results that had no business being there) are now gone.

Hopefully this is a sign of things to come!!

[luvdavy]

Hi all,
This weekend's update put me on a hot air balloon...:-)

We made number one for every top Myrtle Beach phrase there is, and number 2 for real estate. I could't ask for another thing. Well, yeah...we were only a 5 or 6 for golf packages, but I don't put alot of effort in the golf stuff anyway.

Could I ask you all to look at something and help me out?

Look at this page http://c21myrtlebeach.com/
And look at Google's cache of it. Can someone tell me WHERE all those keyphrases and loose words are coming from? They aren't visible on the page as far as I can see, nor do they show up in the page source.
If I can figure that out, I think I can move up to number one in real estate too. Appreciate anything you all can spot...

Jan

[cbp]

Google has made five significant changes to its algorithmic formulas in the last two weeks, Brin said.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20040217/D80PABL80.html

... but he did not say what the 5 changes were :-)

CBP

[ramorse]

I did a quick check for 'humboldt county real estate'. Individual realtor sites are now appearing again in the mix along with major directories and indexes.

One weird site that now comes up fourth defies what I understand of site optimazation. It has a Flash splash page. And when you click to 'skip intro' the home page has almost no text on it.

I thought these were two no nos. What am I not understanding?

[Maryland_Lawyer]

Thank you for the update on Google's latest modifications. As the designer of my own legal web site at www.KramersLaw.com, I saw my search terms fall into oblivion for such key phrases as "Maryland insurance claims," "Maryland insurance lawyer," "contract lawyer Maryland," and a host of other key terms which assist clients in reaching us for assistance. Because we work very hard to provide content that is even useful to those who never retain our services, and because we don't spam or use improper techniques, we were disheartened when irrelevant sites were ranking at the top of the results pages for such terms.

The latest modification brought us back to where we should be. We are first, or within the top 10 results for many terms; on the second page of results for others; and we will work on our rankings where we fall short. But, it does seem that Google is getting better at giving its users better information via the search engine -- that is, once it rolls out the latest version. Thank you for an outstanding forum; you and your forum participants have taught me a lot about SEO and internet design.

[nelsonez]

I am seeing alot of competitor sites returning to top 5 positions that seem to be highly optimized and contain alot of comment tag stuffing. I was under the impression that using comment tags to stuff keywords was getting dinged by google?

The Florida update killed my clients positions and then that was mostly reversed by Austin and now Brandy seems to be random as too which keywords got hurt and which didn't.

Anyone else see any evidence of overly optimized sites returning to 1st page rankings?? At least they are on topic but I was hoping google was trying to curb the over optimization race.

Eric

[xjones]

I went again to http://64.233.161.105 Yesterady I found my main keywords and my sites showing within the the to 10-20 positions...Today I can't find my sites. Again in neverland.

I don't mind if the change the algorithm but more stability will be good at least for a few weeks.

Honestly I don't know who is going to be more hurts by this algorithm changes the site owners or Google itself, specially now with the new kid of the corner (Yahoo!Slurp)

Best wishes

[wonderphul]

We are now in position 28 with a search for 'brazilian bikinis' up from 90+. Prior to December, we had positions 3-5.

Can anyone tell me if there is there anything obviously wrong with our site? No robots.txt file.

Thanks in advance. I have found everyone's comments and suggestions throughout the forums very valuable and often humorous (much needed).

[SEOptimism]

I've got a client that had been raging about their drop in ranking after Florida. I told them to wait it out and they'd come back. Good News! They did and now are in the top five for that hotly contested term we had gained for them before. We did some tweaking over the last couple of months, but nothing major. Now the clients that paid attention to CONTENT are back where they belong!

Whew! That's a relief!

[tnt]

As for my results, I'm somewhat reluctant to get too excited over Brandy, much less report on it. Knock on wood. And things will probably change again anyway. Google makes me both nervous and superstitious, two traits that I am normally not largely predisposed to.

BUT, that being said, and because I'm thankful, and for the benefit of those here who have been discouraged, I'll report.

I have three business sites, somewhat different content, very different designs, completely different URL's. Florida kicked me completely out of the top 1000 for my best phrases. Since then, I changed my target phrases in title and content, and I've been tracking 29 combinations.

Up until last week, many were not in the top 1000, and many of those that were hit anywhere from 100 to 300 deep. Several have gone up or down 200 to 500 places, bouncing back and forth.

After Brandy...uh, hold on...21 of the 29 are now in the top 10, with several at #1.

What's changed? I'll be damned. But I can say THIS particular update did me pretty darn well.

Still, I'm a bit cynical since Florida and Austin, so I'll be watching. Google's been a bit like a fickle, flirty teen age girl. So we'll see.

[nelsonez]

It looks as though the main reason for some of my clients web pages slipping in their rankings (under the current Brandy update) is because of too many repeats of the search phrase within the meta tags. I checked all the pages for all the important relevant non-branded keyword searches and the ones that slipped had the search phrase repeated in some combination 3 or more times within the description and / or keyword meta tags.

Anyone else see anything like this?? I was under the impression that the meta tags held almost no weight in your ranking score. So it is looking to me like they can't help you and can only hurt you.

Eric

[cbp]

too many repeats of the search phrase within the meta tags

Unlikely to be the problem.

CBP

[tonymc]

I went out to the 64.x.x.x website and was very pleased with our placement. There's a big difference though between what shows on 64.x.x.x and www. When should the 64 rankings move to www.google.com?

Thanks.

[BOBW]

Google is pushing back some keywords.

Lil ol' me and my lil ol' site:
I noticed that I was placing in the top three and in direct competition with obvious payer$ for results on certain keywords. I belive Google has pushed back results for non-paying websites. Regionally speaking and business oriented terms like "county" and "company" are nixed now for me and I am showing 500th place on some search string. If I take out those words, I am back at first place. I am at first to third in everything, but for those two words. Sites with no meta tags,no real relavent content, non-matching titles and URL's are placing hing in those keywords. I smell payola - I might have to do that. If you look at my site, you will find that I got caught in an exacttoseeker crawl and my head tags are not all they were. This, however has nothing to do with my theory. I was taking out some keyword and content in my AutoHTML editor and it nixed some keywords out of the metas. I will keep you informed, and would appreciate feedback.

Thanks,

Bob

[BOBW]

Just want to add

Yahoo (today and most times) is pulling Google results and has the same page cached. My site is ranking #1 - #3 on those keyword phrases in the mentioned in my prior posting. This leads me to believe that a patch or some subsequent element has been made to nix some keywords that equal $ for commercial inclusion.

Bob

[ojo4max]

My site never budged through Florida nad stayed at #2 for the "marine supplies" keywords. Now, with this new update, we moved down to #3. Not a huge deal but it is different, and not going in the right direction...

[Blayne]

Well I enjoyed top 10 usually number 2 on most our important keywords after austin. Now I see me dropping to page 2 and 3 with some Florida update non relevents going ahead of us again. It seems every about 6 weeks we can hold our breath and see what happens.

Blayne
www.wholesalesilver.safeshopper.com

[HotBaz]

Hi - Am am new here - been reading for quite a while and have found it to be very interesting.

I have a network of sites and were ranked in the top 10 for most keywords in the field that I write.

Quote:
Clients with networks of sites interlinked - Bad Update
Duplicate content issues - Bad Update
Lots of incoming links with strong anchor text - Good Update
Large website with thousands of pages - Good Update


How does google know if the network of sites belong to one client.

Is it because all the links will be the same?

You could have several links from other clients all linked to your own site.

Hope im making sense here!

[cbp]

How does google know if the network of sites belong to one client.

They don't.
BUT under the patent they got for the Hilltop algo, links from "affiliated" sites are ignored/devalued in part of the ranking formula. Affiliated links were defined as being from the same class C IP address (highly likely to be site that are part of a 'network').

CBP

[Mel]

The same thing is true for Googles LocalRank which also drops more than one link from any Class C IP address and this sort of ties in with things I am seeing on Brandy CBP.

Groups of websites that were set up with out regard to insuring a different class C IP address or changing the name of the owner in the domain registration records, seem to have been dropped, but the serious groups of sites which use different names on the domain records and different Class C IP addresses were dropped in Florida, but Brandy has brought them back and they are ranking better than ever.

Its not that Google doesn't know about these sites IMO its just that the technology needed to track down things like common phone nubmers and email addresses on a group of sites seems to be more than Google is willing to do right now.

[steheap]

This is my first post, so apologies if I make a stupid error!

My site - www.rfidexchange.com used to be well rated by Google - I would usually have results on the first page for things like RFID Forum, or RFID Exchange. I checked it today, and basically I have vanished from all keyword searches apart from a "made-up" word such as "rfidxchange".

The type of site I run makes it more difficult to have incoming links, but would the lack of incoming links have made such a massive difference?

[Mel]

Incoming anchor text link are a very powerful tool. If your competitors are using them and you are not it may be hard for you to compete.