NEW Game

[deepsand]

5501

http://images.all-free-download.com/images/graphicmedium/blue_up_arrow_105.jpg

[briguy]

5502
2nd posting in page 551

[deepsand]

5503

You're just trying to confuse us, knowing that that's easily done, aren't you? ;-)

[briguy]

5504
5503

You're just trying to confuse us, knowing that that's easily done, aren't you? ;-)

lol..just came from reading this thread http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/103191-The-Right-Way-To-Buy-Links pretty sure no one is as confused as I am now! lol!

[kgun]

5505

5504

lol..just came from reading this thread http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/103191-The-Right-Way-To-Buy-Links pretty sure no one is as confused as I am now! lol!
May be because you are not a travelling salesman or not member of a twitter ring:roll:

[deepsand]

5555 less 55 plus 5 plus 5**0

[kgun]

5507

Bed time.

[deepsand]

5508

Good night, then. Sleep well.

[kgun]

5509

Counting8-)


5555 less 55 plus 5 plus 5**0
5**0 = 1.

You tried to fool me with that cryptic formula

[briguy]

5510

5505

May be because you are not a travelling salesman or not member of a twitter ring:roll:
lol..sure not a travelling saleman or a member of any elite twitter group...just a average Joe..in my case Brian

[weegillis]

5511

The Niagara Falls would have been born around this many years ago (give or take a few hundred).

[weegillis]

5512

Correction: the upper gorge of the falls.

According to Niagara Falls Origins - a Geological History (http://www.niagarafrontier.com/origins.html) the falls are actually about 12 000 years old.

[chandrika]

5513
Waterfalls are cool, I would like to visit Niagara Falls some day.

[deepsand]

5514


lol..sure not a travelling saleman or a member of any elite twitter group...just a average Joe..in my case Brian

But, are you a P average Joe; or, an NP one?

[kgun]

5515

The 100 best waterfalls.

http://www.world-waterfalls.com/worldsbest.php?orderby=ratSce%20DESC

No 1: Langfoss 90 km from my hometown. When I was 20 years, I wrote in Haugesund's newspaper (http://www.h-avis.no/) against members of Norwegian parliament to preserver that waterfall. They saw KWh's everywhere. It is still preserved. You should be able to find much better pictures by Googling

langfoss

on Google.no

Now,

http://www.google.no/images?hl=no&q=hardanger&cts=1282818728258&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1152&bih=704 (Hardanger)

http://www.google.no/images?um=1&hl=no&biw=1152&bih=704&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=blomstring+i+hardanger&btnG=S%C3%B8k&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= (Flowering in Hardanger)

http://www.google.no/images?um=1&hl=no&biw=1152&bih=704&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=brudeferden+i+hardanger&btnG=S%C3%B8k&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= (One of our most famous paintings - Brudeferden (The Bridal trip) in Hardanger).

there is an intense discussion here, with political concequences (the current government have never been more unpopular since they want to use air cables) about bringing electricity to Bergen in air or sea cables from Hardanger. It is 2 Bn NOK more expensive to use sea cables.

What price does original nature have?

Today's superbragging from Norway:roll:. Your turn:-)

[kgun]

5516

5514



But, are you a P average Joe; or, an NP one?
Is that an NP-hard question?:confused:

[kgun]

5517

5513
Waterfalls are cool, I would like to visit Niagara Falls some day.
Agree.

[deepsand]

5518


Is that an NP-hard question?
Only the would be respondent can tell. ;)

[C0ldf1re]

5519

Hi everybody! I'm back from my holiday in Wales. Did I miss anything exciting?

[deepsand]

5520

Well, can't speak for others; but you did miss:

Kevsta's losing control here, going postal with me, then trying to continue in same vein at Webnaut's new forum, only to there get shut down by Doc; and,
An arrogant & uncivil newbie, 3dGrunge, trying to butt heads with me re. what the subject of a thread that I'd started should be, only to get shut down by MJ.


So, how was your vacation?

[edhan]

5521

Things ain't going smoothly for my family these days ...

[deepsand]

5522

Setback in the health arena? Or, other matter(s)?

[edhan]

5523

In the matter of studies for my kids ...

[deepsand]

5524

For many and varied reasons, a common complaint.

[briguy]

5525
5514



But, are you a P average Joe; or, an NP one?


5516

Is that an NP-hard question?:confused:


5518


Only the would be respondent can tell. ;)

lol..okay someone got to give me some kinda of acroymn link...only NP that comes to mind is Name Pros (member there).

[deepsand]

5526

P versus NP problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem)

[edhan]

5527

Thanks God no one is seriously injured in NZ.

[deepsand]

5528

From what I heard last night on BBC World News, it seems that they were extremely fortunate.

[C0ldf1re]

5529




Well, can't speak for others; but you did miss:


Kevsta's losing control here, going postal with me, then trying to continue in same vein at Webnaut's new forum, only to there get shut down by Doc; and,
An arrogant & uncivil newbie, 3dGrunge, trying to butt heads with me re. what the subject of a thread that I'd started should be, only to get shut down by MJ.



So, how was your vacation?

Wow! Quiet by comparison! I'll try to tell a "Tales from Wales" or two, if I get time!

[deepsand]

5530

Quiet can be very good for the soul.

[C0ldf1re]

5531




Quiet can be very good for the soul.

Except when "The Still Small Voice Within" starts turning into a conscience. Ouch! I'd have to make refunds to all my customers whom I've overcharged.

[deepsand]

5532

Were that the case, would not so acting be good for the soul?

[C0ldf1re]

5533




Were that the case, would not so acting be good for the soul?

Well, yes, sort of. But the soul is an unverified abstraction. Bankruptcy is horribly real.

[deepsand]

5534

Point taken.

[weegillis]

5535
(missed 5531, darn. Love those primes.)

Hope everyone made it home from the last long weekend of the summer. We got in a last trip of the summer to visit grand kids.

Watching our youngest start university, and our oldest granddaughter begin grade 1. Love to watch 'em learn.

Advised our daughter-in-law that it's best to let them go, because after six their lost to the world. All we can do is catch them when then fall, coax them back up on the horse, coach them through their failures and regale them in their victories. The rest is up to them.

[deepsand]

5536

Upcoming prime alert. No, not the next count; but very soon.

[weegillis]

5537

IT could program in alarms on a first come, first served basis. No squatting would be allowed. One alarm per subscriber. How long would this thread take to speed along, then?

[deepsand]

5538

Next one?

[weegillis]

5539

Which we both know, and the next after that, and so on. Each one could be subscribed so that as the post count approaches, the subscriber would automatically get that post (with some boilerplate if not changed by the sub), and an alert a few posts earlier by e-mail notification.

[weegillis]

5540

Of course, the subscriber would need to be a member in good standing, but the scripts could filter this in real time just be grabbing the next valid subscriber from the queue.

[weegillis]

3 x 1847

What do you call numbers with only two factors?

[deepsand]

5542

A number with two prime factors.

[C0ldf1re]

5543


3 x 1847... What do you call numbers with only two factors?

Q. What do you call a Welshman with 2 sheep?

A. A bigamist!

[deepsand]

5544

Q. What do you call a Welshman with 1 sheep?

A. Lucky.

[C0ldf1re]

5545

Q. What do you call a Welshman with a sheep and a goat?

A. Bisexual.

[chandrika]

5546

3 x 1847

What do you call numbers with only two factors?

In England they are called primary numbers.

[deepsand]

5547

Primary number is an alternative term meaning prime; i.e., the only two factors are 1 and the number itself.

[kgun]

5548

3 x 1847

What do you call numbers with only two factors?
Yes, the number has a third hidden factor that you don't need to write.

[deepsand]

31 x 179 = 5549

[C0ldf1re]

5550 = 2 * 5 * 5 * 11 (roughly) (I think) (Sheep jokes are easier on the brain)

[deepsand]

(5**1)(10**3)+(5**1)(10**2)+(5**1)(10**1)+(5**0)(1 0**0) = 5551

[weegillis]

5552

Even numbers are rarely interesting. Wonder why?

[deepsand]

5553

But, all of the Perfect Numbers are even!

[C0ldf1re]

5554


Even numbers are rarely interesting. Wonder why?

$1,000,000! (Even weegillis will be interested, I expect.)

[weegillis]

5555

A million dollars would be perfect. Even TWO million.

[weegillis]

5556

If I had a million dollars,
I'd buy a REAL fur, not one of those fake things, that's cruel.

[weegillis]

5557 PRIME

Got it!

[warrichpk]

5558
life is not Easy for me :)

[kgun]

5559 whose crossum (tverrsum in Norwegian) is 24 that is divideable by 3 is not prime.

5557 PRIME

And the next is 5563

[deepsand]

5560

What is the next Perfect Number?

[kgun]

5561

To me the most perfect natural number is 0, since it divides the real line in exactly two even parts:roll:.

To me the most perfect real number is Phi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi)

Important in nature, construction, architecture etc.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

[/URL][url]http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17311,18168,24279,25753,25854,25900,2 6209,26218,26339,26446,26515&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=golden+section+architecture&cp=27&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1152&bih=704 (http://www.google.no/images?hl=no&q=golden+section+architecture&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=X2eJTPfaEoOKOIbqmZEE&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQsAQwAA&biw=1152&bih=704)

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17311,18168,24279,25753,25854,25900,2 6209,26218,26339,26446,26515&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=golden+ratio+logarithmic+spiral&cp=31&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1152&bih=704
(http://www.google.no/images?um=1&hl=no&tbs=isch:1&&sa=X&ei=kmeJTKyTIJDKjAfhodGXBg&ved=0CB8QBSgA&q=golden+ratio+logarithmic+spiral&spell=1&biw=1152&bih=704)

[deepsand]

5562

Most important would be transcendental numbers.

[weegillis]

5563, Prime

Next perfect number, 8128
Last perfect number, 496

<edit> But don't ask me to prove it.</edit>

[deepsand]

5564

Correct.

Next prime is yours for the taking.

[weegillis]

5565

{1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 127, 254, 508, 1016, 2032, 4064, 8128}

1+2+4+8+16+32+64+127+254+508+1016+2032+4064 = 8128

[weegillis]

5566

Consider it (5563) taken. (alas, without even knowing!)

[deepsand]

5567

Perfect Numbers take the form

((2**(n-1))(2n-1)

where (2n-1) is prime.

This yields a series of paired integers of the form (2**k) , (P/(2**k)), where k = 0 to n

1, P
2, P/2
4, P/4
.
(n-1), P/(n-1)

The term P/(n-1) = (2n-1) = Sum(1, 2, 4, ... (n-1))

I.e., the sum of all factors less than the prime pivot equal the prime pivot.

Therefore, the sum of all factors to and including the prime pivot equal (prime pivot x 2), which equals the next highest factor, such that continued summation yields the highest factor, the Perfect Number itself.

E.g., consider the Perfect Number 28, whose factors are (1, 2, 4, 7, 14).

1+2=3
3+4=7
7+7=14
14+14=28

[C0ldf1re]

5568

Could this thread return to Sheep Jokes, so that everybody has a chance to join in?

[deepsand]

5569

Looking for me, big boy?

http://www.travelcentre.com.au/travel/australiaNewzealand/new_zealand/Images/nz%20street%20worker.jpg

[C0ldf1re]

5570


http://www.travelcentre.com.au/travel/australiaNewzealand/new_zealand/Images/nz%20street%20worker.jpg

myt ahndsx aree shakling so mucbh that io cannt wriureu proprly

[deepsand]

5571

Those would be trembles of desire.

[C0ldf1re]

5572


Those would be trembles of desire.

Yes, when I wrote, "myt ahndsx aree shakling so mucbh that io cannt wriureu proprly", I was trying to write, "My hands are shaking so much that I can't write properly."

[deepsand]

5573

Four men were bragging about how smart their dogs were.

The first man was an engineer, the second man was an accountant, the third man was a chemist and the fourth was a union official.

To show off, the engineer called to his dog "T-Square, Do Your Stuff!". T-Square trotted over to a desk, took out some paper and a pen and drew a circle, a square and a triangle.

Everyone agreed that T-Square was very smart indeed. However the accountant said his dog could do better. He called his dog and said "Sliderule, Do Your Stuff!" , Sliderule went out to the kitchen and returned with a dozen cookies. He divided them into four equal piles of three cookies each.

Everyone agreed that this was very good. The Chemist said his dog could do better. He called his dog and said "Measure, Do Your Stuff!". Measure got up, walked over to the fridge, took out a quart of milk, got a ten ounce glass from the cupboard and poured exactly eight ounces without spilling a single drop.

Once again everyone agreed that this was very good and Measure was in fact a very smart dog. Then the three men turned to the Union Official and asked what his dog could do.

The Union Official called to his dog, "Tea Break, Do Your Stuff!". Tea Break jumped to his feet, ate the cookies, drank the milk, shit on the paper, mated with the three dogs, claimed he'd injured his back while doing so, filed a grievance report for unsafe working conditions, put in for workers compensation and went home on sick leave!.

[weegillis]

5574




Mary had a little lamb
whose fleece was white as snow;
Jack fell down
and hit his crown;
and, well, needless,
the sheep survived.

It went something like that, I'm sure.

[kgun]

5575

Most important would be transcendental numbers.
So you mean Pi (http://www.joyofpi.com/) that can not be constructed is more perfect than Phi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio) that can be conctructed. Why?



Imagine a race of talking ants. The ants can compress the infinite digits of pi in an interesting way. For example, let us imagine that the ants can speak by manipulating their crude jaws. The first ant in the long parade of ants screams out the first digit, "3". The next yells the number on its back, a "1". The next yells a "4", and so on. Further imagine that each ant speaks its digit in only half the time of the preceding ant. Each ant has a turn to speak. Only the most recent digit is spoken at any instant. If the first digit of pi requires 30 seconds to speak (due to the ant's cumbersome jaws and little brain), the entire ant colony will speak all the digits of pi in a minute! (Again, this is because the infinite sum 1/2 minute + 1/4 minute + 1/8 minute + ... is equal to 1 minute.) Astoundingly, at the end of the minute, there will be a quick-talking ant that will actually say the "last" digit of pi! The geometer God, upon hearing this last digit, may cry, "That's impossible, because pi has no last digit!"
Source: Ants and Transcendental Numbers (http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/trans.html)

[deepsand]

5576

Because Phi is a human artifact.

[weegillis]

5576

Because Phi is a human artifact.

By that do you mean:


undesired alteration in data, introduced by a technique and/or technology

[deepsand]

5577


something characteristic of or resulting from a particular human institution, period, trend, or individual

____________________

[kgun]

5579

Because Phi is a human artifact.
Euclidian mathematics is said to be human mathematics. The circle (and pi) is strongly related to Euclidian mathematics.

Fractal mathematic is said to be "God's" mathematics since many forms in nature are related to fractals. Fractals, deterministic chaos, the Fibonacci sequence and Phi are strongly related. Mathematical chaos is beautiful and related to life, while Euclidian shapes are in a sence static. You would not have lived if your heart beats were not chaotic.

[deepsand]

5580

The relationship between the Fibonacci sequence and Phi is not a special property; see Golden Ratio: Relationship to Fibonacci sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio#Relationship_to_Fibonacci_sequence).

Furthermore, a Golden spiral only approximates naturally occurring patterns.

[kgun]

5581

Furthermore, a Golden spiral only approximates naturally occurring patterns.
A mathematical model is per definition an approximation:shock:.

[C0ldf1re]

5582

Mary had a little lamb
Its fleece was black as coal
And that is why it wasn't seen
When it fell down a hole.

[deepsand]

5583


mathematical model is per definition an approximation.
Setting aside the fact that not all models are approximations, the fact remains that Phi is a man-made entity, whereas the transcendental numbers are not.

[briguy]

5584
5573

Four men were bragging about how smart their dogs were.

The first man was an engineer, the second man was an accountant, the third man was a chemist and the fourth was a union official.

To show off, the engineer called to his dog "T-Square, Do Your Stuff!". T-Square trotted over to a desk, took out some paper and a pen and drew a circle, a square and a triangle.

Everyone agreed that T-Square was very smart indeed. However the accountant said his dog could do better. He called his dog and said "Sliderule, Do Your Stuff!" , Sliderule went out to the kitchen and returned with a dozen cookies. He divided them into four equal piles of three cookies each.

Everyone agreed that this was very good. The Chemist said his dog could do better. He called his dog and said "Measure, Do Your Stuff!". Measure got up, walked over to the fridge, took out a quart of milk, got a ten ounce glass from the cupboard and poured exactly eight ounces without spilling a single drop.

Once again everyone agreed that this was very good and Measure was in fact a very smart dog. Then the three men turned to the Union Official and asked what his dog could do.

The Union Official called to his dog, "Tea Break, Do Your Stuff!". Tea Break jumped to his feet, ate the cookies, drank the milk, shit on the paper, mated with the three dogs, claimed he'd injured his back while doing so, filed a grievance report for unsafe working conditions, put in for workers compensation and went home on sick leave!.

Thanks for the laugh!
And this my friends was my contribution to this thread!
Have a great day/weekend!

[deepsand]

5585

Weekend? What's that? :???:

[C0ldf1re]

5586


Weekend? What's that? :???:

It's when clients quit bugging us on the phone, and we can get some real work done.

[deepsand]

5587


It's when clients quit bugging us on the phone

That explains why the concept is foreign to me; clients bug me from their mobile devices each and every day.

Some from the golf course, some from the comfort of their sofa while watching TV, some while driving to a tyrst with their mistress, some while just sitting on their proch watching the grass grow.

I've one who I tell that I can't do any work for him while he's on the phone, and then hang up on. He usally calls back, in an attempt to rant and rave, using language most foul. I just let him swear to the answering machine. :mrgreen:

[C0ldf1re]

5588


... I've one who I tell that I can't do any work for him while he's on the phone, and then hang up on. He usally calls back, in an attempt to rant and rave, using language most foul. I just let him swear to the answering machine. :mrgreen:

Yes. I had one just like him. And he paid so much I couldn't bear to tell him to get lost.

[deepsand]

5589

This guy's gotten so used to the drill that he calls back several hours later, or the next day, and makes no mention of my having hung up on him.

[deepsand]

5590

Completely caught up on the project of the moment. :)

Of course, it's not the only one on my plate. :(

[lewisxandra]

five thousand five hundred ninety-one

[deepsand]

5592

Let's see you top that! :mrgreen:

[C0ldf1re]

5593

2 tired 2 top!

[deepsand]

5594

And, I'm off to sleep momentarily.

The count rests in your capable hands.

[weegillis]

55.95

Usually the price a merchandiser will settle for when he really wants 56 bucks.

[kgun]

5596


Setting aside the fact that not all models are approximations, the fact remains that Phi is a man-made entity, whereas the transcendental numbers are not.


Interesting models, especially in economics are approximations.
Where do you find an exact circular disk in nature?
I can "construct" the trancendental number pi as the area of the unit circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_circle) (with radius, r= 1):roll:.
Pi = Pi x r x r = Pi x 1 x 1

PS:

The use of the unit circle / disk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_disc) in

Geometric graph theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_graph_theory)

Read here:

Unit disk graph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_disk_graph)

A very man-made entity:roll:.

[deepsand]

5597


Interesting models, especially in economics are approximations.
Still, not all models are approximations.


Where do you find an exact circular disk in nature?
Materiality re. natural origin of Pi?


I can "construct" the trancendental number pi as the area of the
That's not the actual number.

[kgun]

5598.

Do you think we reach an agreement before this thread is complete?

I personally still regard the real number PHI as the most perfect number. Look at my previous posts for a reason why.

[Uncle Dog]

1782.2170527430439699399603822454

I'm Pi-sexual!

[deepsand]

5600


Do you think we reach an agreement before this thread is complete?

I personally still regard the real number PHI as the most perfect number.
I take no issue with your personal preferences. :wink:


1782.2170527430439699399603822454

I'm Pi-sexual!
But, with only approximately Pi number of offspring. :D

[weegillis]

5601

A circle with area unity yields PI equal to r^-2. Given PI to n decimal places, what limit does r approach?

[deepsand]

5602

Do you perhaps mean delta r?

[weegillis]

5603

Even though our area is clearly unity, can A ever actually BE '1' given the properties in the relation?

[kgun]

5604



A circle with area unity yields PI equal to r^-2. Given PI to n decimal places, what limit does r approach?

PI to n decimal places is an approximation of PI.


5603

Even though our area is clearly unity, can A ever actually BE '1' given the properties in the relation?

No problem analytically:

A = 1 ==> PI x r x r = 1 ==> r = + Sqrt(1 /PI)

[weegillis]

Is '1' over a transcendental ever an exact value, let alone the square root of 1 over one?

[kgun]

5606

It is a transcendental number.

In theory, practice and theory is the same, but that is in theory.

If the facts (map) don't fit your theory (terrain), change the facts (map).

[kgun]

5607


r = + Sqrt(1 /PI)

Right hand of equation is transcendental and that implies that r, left side of equation, is transcendental.

[kgun]

5608

That a number is transcendental means that it can not be constructed like Sqrt(2), Phi etc.

Joyful and interesting reading: http://www.joyofpi.com/

Many funny stories, especially about people with too high ego like me:roll:

[kgun]

5609.

So you can not place a transcendental number like Pi on the real line with a ruler and compass, but it has its place there. Can you square the circle with ruler and compass? The answer is no, since transcendental numbers are transcendental just because they can not. There are more formal definitions in the above mentioned book.

But analytically it is no probem.

The area of a circle

A = pi x r x r.

So a square with side

sqrt (A) = r x sqrt(pi)

does the job analytically.

[mjtaylor]

5610. And you wonder why I haven't come around lately ... ;)

[C0ldf1re]

5611

Hi MJ! This thread hurts my brain too!


... In theory, practice and theory is the same, but that is in theory...

Isn't that a little bit recursive?

[deepsand]

5612


Is '1' over a transcendental ever an exact value, let alone the square root of 1 over one?
Transcendental numbers cannot be algebraically constructed. Therefore, the same holds true of any value derived from a transcendental number, including its reciprocal.

See Transcendental number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_number)


And you wonder why I haven't come around lately ... ;)
All that counts is that you can count.

Simple arithmetic suffices.

[Uncle Dog]

5613

Count me out!

[deepsand]

5614


Isn't that a little bit recursive?
Implied is " but, in practice, there is a great deal of difference."

[kgun]

5615

A more practical topic. What is your opinion on food security and genbanks like the one established at Svalbard? I watched a very interesting Tv program today.

Links (with an English version):



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault
http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/campaign/the-high-north/miljo/svalbard-global-seed-vault.html?id=540131
http://www.nordgen.org/ Swedish site.
http://www.seedbiology.de/links.asp

[kgun]

5616


Therefore, the same holds true of any value derived from a transcendental number, including its reciprocal.

My bolding.

What about Pi raised to zero power? :roll:

[C0ldf1re]

5617


A more practical topic. What is your opinion on food security and genbanks like the one established at Svalbard?...

I haven't had time to follow your links yet, but did the TV program mention other seed banks? We have a long-established seed bank in London at the Royal Botanical Gardens in Kew.

[deepsand]

5618


What about Pi raised to zero power?
Good catch; should have qualified the statement with "non-trivial."

[weblover50]

5619

Boy! This is going to take a while...

[kgun]

5620



I haven't had time to follow your links yet, but did the TV program mention other seed banks? We have a long-established seed bank in London at the Royal Botanical Gardens in Kew.
I don't know since I did not see the whole movie. It was mainly about the


Genbank at Svalbard where seeds are stored in permafrost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permafrost)
It has grown very fast to one of the biggest banks in the world
and aims to become the largest as far as I know.

[deepsand]

5621

Celebrated Russian seed bank fights for its land (http://www.physorg.com/news201546645.html)


The world's first seed bank survived World War II thanks to 12 Russian scientists who chose to starve to death rather than eat the grain they were saving for future generations.


Vavilov Institute of Plant Industry's seed bank is in danger again, this time because of court-approved plans to rip up its vast fields of genetically diverse plants and build fancy homes on the prime real estate they occupy near St. Petersburg.

And, businessmen wonder why they are so reviled by many. :roll:

[briguy]

5622

Just dropping in to say hi...Now for "Today's Stupiest Question"..When is the next Prime Number occuring (threadwise)!

[deepsand]

5623

Right now!

[briguy]

5624 lol Bear in mind, deepsand that I have only Grade 10 Math (basic)..

[deepsand]

5625

Why Can't I Own a Canadian? (http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html)



Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

[deepsand]

5626


lol Bear in mind, deepsand that I have only Grade 10 Math (basic)..
That, and a little time with a basic calculator, are all that's needed to determine if a relatively small number is prime.

[weegillis]

5627

or you could use WolframAlpha: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=primes+between+5600+and+6000

[deepsand]

5628

I'd prefer to use a Cray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray).

[weegillis]

5629

How many petaflops are needed to find the first billion-million decimal places for pi; or e.

[weegillis]

5630


Put in another way, 1.75 petaflops is literally a million monkeys sitting at a million typewriters. Whomever coined this phrase would be truly amazed.

[C0ldf1re]

5631

Now, where's that old family Bible? Leviticus and Exodus sound fun!

[deepsand]

5632


How many petaflops are needed to find the first billion-million decimal places for pi; or e.
Depends on:

The Instruction Set available;
The sizes of the Registers available; and;
How quickly the answer is required.

[deepsand]

5633


Now, where's that old family Bible? Leviticus and Exodus sound fun!
For best effect, read from the Torah.

[weegillis]

5634

400,000 monkeys would take infinitely longer, don't you think?

[deepsand]

5635


400,000 monkeys would take infinitely longer, don't you think?
No; only 150% longer than 1 million.

[kgun]

5636



Depends on:


The Instruction Set available;
The sizes of the Registers available; and;
How quickly the answer is required.


Note that you can simulate paper calculous by using a lookup table in Assembly. Declared like this:

Digits DB = '0123456789ABCDEF'

DB = Define byte.

Then the whole number 0 is in position 0 in Digits, 7 in position 7 etc. You use this routine to convert the natural numbers 0,1,2, ... ,9 to string representation.

Here is the assembly routine:



Byte2Str PROC
mov DI,AX ;Duplicate byte in DI
and DI,000FH ;Mask out high 12 bits of DI
mov BX,OFFSET Digits ;Load offset of digits into DI
mov AH,BYTE PTR [BX+DI] ;Load digits from table into AH
mov [SI+1],AH ;and store digits into string
xor AH,AH ;Zero out AH
mov DI,AX ;And mov byte into DI
shr DI,1 ;Shift high nybble of byte to low nybble
shr DI,1
shr DI,1
shr DI,1
mov AH,BYTE PTR [BX+DI] ;Load digits from table into AH
mov [SI],AH ;and store digits into string
ret ;We are done -- go home!
Byte2Str ENDP
for the 8088 (86 family of processors). So if you use a Cray with a non-optimal routine in a high level language, I can compute large primes faster than you with an old IBM AT.

Speed is algorithms and not so much raw computing power. Speed in assembly is knowing which instructions are faster.

Example in the above code: Note that

xor AH,AH (Zeroes out the high byte AH of the AX register).

is 25 % faster than

mov AH,0

And if you don't have enough registers available, you can always put information on the stack, but that is slower of course.

Excercise for the more than 300 million Americans. Based on the above routine, make the assembler routine that simulates paper computation for those numbers that result in register overflow.

Regarding speed, note that Bing is faster than 98 % of all sites and Cnn only faster than 18 % of all sites. Source: [yottaa.com/]

[Uncle Dog]

5637


I'd prefer to use a Cray.

Reggie or Ronnie? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kray_twins)

[deepsand]

5638


Speed is algorithms and not so much raw computing power. Speed in assembly is knowing which instructions are faster.
Hence my noting of a dependency on Instruction Set.


Reggie or Ronnie?
Sir Ralph (http://books.google.com/books?id=i9ZbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA1612-IA192&lpg=PA1612-IA192&dq=ralph+cray&source=bl&ots=qLLvig6O1e&sig=O3Bt-SLmkGIiNm_cwOe03JE-Jss&hl=en&ei=RKmSTJNrwYCUB7TRgaYK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ralph%20cray&f=false)

[weegillis]

5639

Another prime.

[deepsand]

5640


Another prime.
How many are left?

[weegillis]

5641 Another one.

Um, infinite...

Between this and 6000, another 42

[deepsand]

5642


Um, infinite...
And, the proof, without searching for it, is?

[weegillis]

5643

As long as we cannot determine what the last number is, we cannot determine which is the last prime.

[deepsand]

5644


As long as we cannot determine what the last number is, we cannot determine which is the last prime.
Then, neither can we assume that there is no "last" prime.

What is here needed is a formal proof.

[weegillis]

5645


5622

Just dropping in to say hi...Now for "Today's Stupiest Question"..When is the next Prime Number occuring (threadwise)!

The next prime is, P(742).

[deepsand]

5646

Formal proof of an infinity of primes: A hint.

Assume a finite number of primes - 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 ... P(n).

Let PP = the product 1 x 2 x 3 x 5 x 7 x ... x P(n)

What are the characteristics of (PP-1) and (PP+1)?

[kgun]

5647


5643

As long as we cannot determine what the last number is, we cannot determine which is the last prime.



Primes are countable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countable_set
+ infinity is the last countable number: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/AffinelyExtendedRealNumbers.html

But 2 x infinity is infinity:roll: Infinity - Infinity is like 0/0 undefined.
Related topic: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CardinalNumber.html
Cantor, some times called the father of modern set theory developed the well know Cantor Set: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CantorSet.html This set that is one of the simplest fractals is obtained by repeatedly removing the middle third from the unit interval: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UnitInterval.html The cantor set have measure (length) zero but is over countable. So it has more elements than can be put in 1-1 relationship with the natural numbers.
This is a facinating subject, since the Cantor Set has sub sets that are not Borel measureable: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=144062
By a semester study of the Cantor Set, you should learn what a fractal is, set and number theory etc.
Very important resource and a good starting point: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Arithmetic.html

On the last link (7) you find these links:


http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeNumber.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeFactorization.html

[kgun]

5648

If there was a final number of primes, there could not be an infinite number or primary twins:

Another game: Prime numbers and twins. (http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/72905-Another-game-Prime-numbers-and-twins.?p=403116&viewfull=1#post403116)

[kgun]

5649

Some may call this philosopy and not mathematics:



the Cantor Set has sub sets that are not Borel measureable:
But the Cantor Set itself has Borel measure zero:roll:.

There is a lot of mathematical measures. A good source:

mathematical measures site:wolfram.com

the coastline of Norway has infinite Hasudorff-Besicovitch measure if I don't mix it with other fratal measuers but the area is absolutely finite:wink:

Links:

http://ems.gphys.unc.edu/nonlinear/fractals/moreexamples.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fractals_by_Hausdorff_dimension

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord

[kgun]

5650

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord


False fjords

The differences in usage between the English and the Scandinavian languages have contributed to confusion in the use of the term fjord. Bodies of water which are clearly fjords in Scandinavian languages are not considered fjords in English; similarly bodies of water which would clearly not be fjords in the Scandinavian sense have been named or suggested to be fjords. Examples of this confused usage follow.

The Bay of Kotor in Montenegro has been suggested by some to be a fjord, but is in fact a drowned river canyon or ria. Similarly the Lim bay in Istria, Croatia, is sometimes called "Lim fjord" although it is not actually a fjord carved by glacial erosion but instead a ria dug by the river Pazinčica. The Croats call it Limski kanal which does not transliterate precisely to the English equivalent either.

In the Danish language any inlet is called a fjord, but none of the "fjords" of Denmark is a fjord in geological sense. Limfjord in English terminology is a channel, since it separates the North Jutlandic Island (Vendsyssel-Thy) from the rest of Jutland. Ringkøbing Fjord on the western coast of Jutland is a lagoon. The long narrow "fjords" of Denmark's Baltic Sea coast like the German Förden were dug by ice moving from the sea upon land, while fjords in the geological sense were dug by ice moving from the mountains down to the sea.

While the long fjord-like bays of the New England coast are sometimes referred to as "fiards", the only glacially formed fjord-like feature in New England is Somes Sound in Maine.

The fjords in Finnmark (Norway), which are fjords in the Scandinavian sense of the term, are considered by some[who?] to be false fjords. Although glacially formed, most Finnmark fjords lack the classic hallmark steep-sided valleys of the more southerly Norwegian fjords since the glacial pack was deep enough to cover even the high grounds when they were formed. The Oslofjord on the other hand is a rift valley, and not glacially formed.

In Acapulco, Mexico, the calanques—narrow, rocky inlets—on the western side of the city, where the famous cliff-divers perform daily, are described in the city's tourist literature as being fjords.

[kgun]

5651


Hi MJ! This thread hurts my brain too!

Increased confusion or clearification:



Scoresby Sund (English: Scoresby Sound, Greenlandic: Kangertittivaq) is an inlet system of the Greenland Sea on the eastern coast of Greenland. It has a tree-like structure, with a main body approximately 110 km (70 miles)[2] long that branches into a system of fjords covering an area of about 38,000 km2 (14,700 sq mi). The longest of these extends 340–350 km in from the coastline.[1] The depth is 400–600 m in the main body, but this increases to up to 1,450 m (4,760 ft) in the fjords.[1] It is the largest and longest fjord system in the world.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoresby_Sund



The Sognefjord (or Sognefjorden) is the largest fjord in Norway, and the second longest in the world, after Scoresby Sund on Greenland. Located in Sogn og Fjordane county, it stretches 205 kilometres (127 mi) inland to the small village of Skjolden. The fjord takes its name from the traditional district of Sogn.[1]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sognefjord

Largest, longest, deepest or most water rich or what if both are "natural" fractals with infinite lenght?:roll:

[AudreyCoreTech]

5652.... dot dot dot.

[kgun]

5653

5652.... dot dot dot.
Or was it ... hot hot hot or ... not not not?

[weegillis]

5664


5646

Formal proof of an infinity of primes: A hint.

Assume a finite number of primes - 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 ... P(n).

P(1) is 2, right?

[kgun]

5665

P(1) is 2, right?
According to his definition P(1) should be 1.



Let PP = the product 1 x 2 x 3 x 5 x 7 x ... x P(n)

For n greater than one,

PP is even since it has 2 as a factor

[kgun]

5666

The simple query: are there infinite prime numbers

would have answered the question for you.

I think deepsand uses Euclid's proof by contradiction (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EuclidsTheorems.html)

Prime Factorization algorithms:


http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PrimeFactorizationAlgorithms.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ContinuedFractionFactorizationAlgorithm.html
Most efficient algorithm http://mathworld.wolfram.com/QuadraticSieve.html ?
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/QuadraticSieve.html)

[kgun]

5667


P(1) is 2, right?
According to his definition P(1) should be 1 since deepsand means that 1 is the first prime number.

So if Wikipedia is correct, P(1)=2 and you are correct.



The number 1 is by definition not a prime number.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_number

[weegillis]

5658 ...just passed prime(745)

So PP-1 and PP+1 are both odd. One and/or the other could both be prime.

[weegillis]

prime(746) What the heck, may as well snag it...

This one twins with prime(745)

[kgun]

5670


So PP-1 and PP+1 are both odd. One and/or the other could both be prime.


You are correct regarding PP + 1.



Euclid's proof

Euclid offered the following proof published in his work Elements (Book IX, Proposition 20)[1] and paraphrased here.

Take any finite list of prime numbers p1, p2, ..., pn. It will be shown that some additional prime numbers not in this list exist. Let P be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: P = p1...pn. Let q = P + 1: 1 more than this product. Then, q is either prime or not:

* If q is prime then there is at least one more prime than is listed.

* If q is not prime then some prime factor p divides q. This factor p is not on our list: if it were, then it would divide P (since P is the product of every number on the list); but as we know, p divides P + 1 = q. Then p would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is (P + 1) − P or just 1. But no prime number divides 1 so there would be a contradiction, and therefore p cannot be on the list. This means at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list.

This proves that for any finite list of prime numbers, there is a prime number not on the list. Therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.

It is often erroneously reported that Euclid proved this result by contradiction, beginning with the assumption that the set initially considered contains all prime numbers, or that it contains precisely the n smallest primes, rather than any arbitrary finite set of primes.[2]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid%27s_theorem#Euclid.27s_proof

[kgun]

5671


SEVERAL PROOFS OF THE TWIN PRIMES AND GOLDBACH CONJECTURES

James Constant

math@coolissues.com

Proof of Goldbach's Conjecture, the Prime Number Theorem, and Euclid's Logic Provide Proofs of the Twin Primes Conjecture. Proof of the Twin Primes Conjecture Provides Proof of Goldbach's Conjecture


Theorem

There are infinitely many twin primes.

Proof of the Twin Primes Conjecture Using Proofs of Goldbach's Conjecture or Using the Prime Number Theorem

The twin primes conjecture (TPC) suggests that there is an infinite number of primes a and b with a difference 2, i.e., a - b = 2. Goldbach's conjecture (GC) suggests that every even number greater than 2 is the sum s of two prime numbers a and b, i.e., a + b = s where s is even >2. GC is proved by the author herein below and elsewhere

Source:
http://www.coolissues.com/mathematics/Tprimes/tprimes.htm



For this reason Euclid could not have written "there are infinitely many primes," rather he wrote "prime numbers are more than any assigned multitude of ...
Source:
http://primes.utm.edu/notes/proofs/infinite/euclids.html

Query:
are there infinitely many "prime twins"

[Uncle Dog]

5672

Doesn't the infinity of infinities in the multiverse mean that there are just as many 1's as primes?

[kgun]

5673

Formulate it as a theorem and I may study it if I have time.:roll:

[weegillis]

5673

Is this a correct assumption?

P mod 6 * P mod 5 <> 0 for all primes

Conversely,

IF P mod 6 * P mod 5 <> 0 the number is prime

[deepsand]

5665


So PP-1 and PP+1 are both odd. One and/or the other could both be prime.
Since PP is 0 Mod(P(i)) for all i = 1 to n, then both PP-1 and PP+1 cannot be divisible by any P(i).

Therefore, each must be either a Prime, or divisible by a Prime > P(n).

[deepsand]

5666


Is this a correct assumption?

P mod 6 * P mod 5 <> 0 for all primes

Conversely,

IF P mod 6 * P mod 5 <> 0 the number is prime
ABS(P mod 6) = 5 for all Primes.

The converse is false.

[kgun]

5677

Will we ever reach 1 000 000.:mrgreen:

[deepsand]

5668

1 000 000 Base ???

[kgun]

5669


1 000 000 Base ???


Lets Count to One Million - It will take around 30 years to complete this task


ONE

Was the OP. I assume base 10.

Moderators confuse us ; http://www.webproworld.com/webmaster-forum/threads/60607-NEW-Game?p=530347&viewfull=1#post530347

[kgun]

5670

Binary 1000000

Ternary 2101

Quintal 224

Octal 100

Decimal 64

Hexadecimal 40

So if David meant binary we are finished.

[kgun]

5671



ABS(P mod 6) = 5 for all Primes.

The converse is false.

What is P and what is abs here?

ABS(3 mod 6) = ?

[deepsand]

5672

Plodding on, awaiting further orders.

[deepsand]

5673


What is P and what is abs here?

ABS(3 mod 6) = ?
ABS = Absolute Value

P = any Prime

ABS(3 mod 6) = 3

(1 mod 6) = 1 or -5
ABS(1 mod 6) = 5

[C0ldf1re]

5674

The Pope drove past within 60 yards of my house, on his way from Westminster Abbey to the place he's staying in Wimbledon. If we had been forewarned, we would probably have lined the route and waved. We aren't even Catholic. Professor Richard Dawkins, eat your atheist heart out!

[deepsand]

5675

What would you have waved?

[kgun]

5676


ABS(P mod 6) = 5 for all Primes.

The converse is false.

I assume mod = % = the modulo operator.

ABS(13 % 6) = 1.

[Tubby]

5677

Are you a 'Womble' ?

[kgun]

5678


The Pope drove past within 60 yards of my house, on his way from Westminster Abbey to the place he's staying in Wimbledon. If we had been forewarned, we would probably have lined the route and waved. We aren't even Catholic. Professor Richard Dawkins, eat your atheist heart out!
We have not cared so much about Rome since Sverre Sigurdsson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverre_Sigurdsson)



Sverre Sigurdsson (Old Norse: 'Sverrir Sigurðarson') (c. 1145/1151 – 9 March 1202) was king of Norway from 1184 to 1202. He married Margareta Eriksdotter, the daughter of the Swedish king Eric the Saint, by whom he had the daughter Kristina Sverresdotter.

spoke directly against Rome in the late 1100.

[Tubby]

If I remember correctly, the daughter Kristina Sverresdotter Married a Womble. Had an open wedding on Wimbledon common, early spring.

[kgun]

5680

(S)he may have been a mormon

Google define:Womble

if there is symmetry between men and women in the Mormons belief.

[deepsand]

5681


I assume mod = % = the modulo operator.

ABS(13 % 6) = 1.
Correct.

[Uncle Dog]

5682


5680
...if there is symmetry between men and women in the Mormons belief.

I think it's 10 women = 1 man.

[deepsand]

5683

And, that's just the [b]minimum[b] requirement.

[C0ldf1re]

5684

Where did the Mormons get the spare women from? (And what did they do in the days before v1agra?)

[weegillis]

5685

They don't need viagra, just young brides.

[Tubby]

I think it was a famous female royal personality that said.

"If they have no girls let them eat women . . You can't have your bride and eat it too"

(well that's how I recall it) But I am old. .

[deepsand]

5687


Where did the Mormons get the spare women from?[I]
In Old Order Mormon communities, young men are driven out, either actively if necessary, or passively by way of refusing to allow them to marry.

[kgun]

5688


In Old Order Mormon communities, young men are driven out, either actively if necessary, or passively by way of refusing to allow them to marry.
Now I understand.

So women should be at home caring for the house and the children? The mormons have understood human nature fairly well I think. They even come to Norway, but I don't know a single mormon here. Are they still allowed to have 4 wifes? And if yes, why not 5?

[Tubby]

5689
I suppose with all the wisdom their faith has given. . The realisation 'that man can only suffer a finite ammount'.

I am an atheist . . . I do not have that sort of pain threshold

[C0ldf1re]

5690


.... Are they still allowed to have 4 wifes?...

When I had plenty of money, I had 4 girlfriends simultaneously. It was quite a physical strain. (They all wanted to eat along with you, like a wife.)

[kgun]

5691


I am an atheist . . . I do not have that sort of pain threshold
That is a religion too, IMO.

Does your faith tell anything about monogamy versus polygamy?

I think I know you well enough Tubby to know your answer that I think is of practical nature.

[C0ldf1re]

5692


... That is a religion too, IMO...

Can atheism be a religion? Even the thought would have sounded silly to me a few years ago. But now Professor Richard Dawkins has become so fanatical about evangelizing atheism, that it does indeed start to bear the hallmarks of religion.

[firefoxie]

5693

Yes it is a religion IMO.

[Tubby]

5694

I have no idea what makes this world or our universe tick . . I do know it is all well beyond my understanding.

I have no problems having my own beliefs holding the same value as other people beliefs.

I fully understand that God to many people is as real as love, pain, fear. These things everyone has felt. I could never argue that what a person can feel is not real. . . The opposite, I believe what I feel is about all that is real to me.

If I meet someone with tears running down their face I am not silly enough to say to them "their is no pain" - Nor would I say 'their is no God' When I can see the person can feel God.

Nevertheless I am not, nor ever was man enough to manage 4 wives. . . Maybe I like a different type of women than a Mormon does. It might well be that If I came across 4 compatible women willing to share . . . They would scare me.

I am just an emotional being, confined inside a block of time that is probably less than eighty years long on a pretty little planet in the middle of nowhere - making the best of it before this time fades away . . . . .

[firefoxie]

5695



I have no idea what makes this world or our universe tick . . I do know it is all well beyond my understanding.



Which is good that you are honest enough to accept that. :) If others are unable to understand and feel the existence of God fault lies with them. The atheists I know on a few other forums go out of their way to disrespect other religious believes and make it look like it is a part of their 'religion' or what ever to disrespect, swear and call names etc.

[Uncle Dog]

5696

What's this? Damned Atheists trying to promote their view of the world and convert believers. How dare they?

[Tubby]

5697

Sorry . . . The thought of having four wives triggered a panic attack. .

[deepsand]

5698


So women should be at home caring for the house and the children? The mormons have understood human nature fairly well I think.
To the contrary, they understand it poorly.

Patriarchal polygamy was once a physical necessity for the survival of the species; such is no longer the case in most of the world.

It is human nature to not want to be dominated; and, to throw off ones shackles when and wherever possible. It is this that Old Order Mormons refuse to accept.

[deepsand]

5699


If others are unable to understand and feel the existence of God fault lies with them. The atheists I know on a few other forums go out of their way to disrespect other religious believes and make it look like it is a part of their 'religion' or what ever to disrespect, swear and call names etc.
And, yet, despite your protestations re. the behavior of non-believers and dis-believers, you here demean them, by claiming that they are inherently flawed.

Pot, meet kettle.

[kgun]

5700


It is human nature to not want to be dominated; and, to throw off ones shackles when and wherever possible. It is this that Old Order Mormons refuse to accept.
But it is also part of human nature to want to dominate. What does history tell you?

Aside from that fact, I did not think of dominating women by sending them to the kitchen. I did not thing of Betty Friedan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Friedan) and the myth of the American woman. I once read her book, ("Myten om kvinnen" in Norwegian) that should be literally translated to English as "The myth of the woman." I think the English title is "The Feminine Mystique". You may know that better than me.

I thought of mans sexual nature that I have observed is polygamic in some parts of the world. I may be wrong. So if the mormons travelled far away across continents to other countries, it was a practical solution to allow more than one wife. Women should of course have the same right but as far as I have understood, that was not part of their practice. I have never talked to a mormon, but heard and read about them.

The population decreases in Russia, the world's largest country, and there is as far as I have understood, a large surplus of woman in the fertile periode of their life there. It is the same in many Eastern European countries.

Today there has been an election in Sweden where an extreme right wing party, (some swedes say with a Nazi core) got 20 members in parliament. There is nothing new under the sun after a financial crisis (that may be far from over). Social mood is not a natural constant like speed of light.

[Tubby]

No . . I think Atheism is not a 'religion'. . .

'Atheism' is a broad description covering a multitude of many varied individual beliefs. 'Atheism' merely describes a commonality.

I think there is a list of necessary things one needs to tick off before one assigns the title ' religion '

[C0ldf1re]

5701


... It is human nature to not want to be dominated...

Hands up anybody who has applied to join the army or the navy... or any big company... or applied for any job, really.

[deepsand]

5702

Big difference between contractual relationships and simple domination.

[Tubby]

5703
I suspect there might be a difference between between an acceptance of being dominated and a non acceptance.

Acceptance is possibly the greatest supplier of freedom that exists. I have witnessed many moments of acceptance in my lifetime and in every case (including the aproach of death) the effect was something beyond my full understanding.

I do not entirely agree with deepsand when he wrote "... It is human nature to not want to be dominated..." - I suspect 'acceptance' is part of the equation . .

[deepsand]

5704

Are "not wanting" and being "accepting of" mutually exclusive?

I would prefer to not have to give a significant portion of my life over to sleep; yet, I accept the need for such.

[Tubby]

5705
I do not know Deep. (had not thought that deeply about it)

but the thought occurs that not accepting the need to sleep - will bring us to a grinding halt.

Without re-reading my posts. . I am not totally sure I wrote anything about 'not wanting' . . But I do think If you spent 24 hours slaving over something you needed to get done and were 'dead on your feet' so to speak and desperately trying to stay awake. . 'acceptance' would eliminate the 'self domination' that was being forced upon yourself.

Acceptance in this case (sleep) would remove the domination. . . and leave you free to snooze (for a while). .

I think a person can be dominated by their own needs. (percieved or otherwise)

This might be a case of a person actually wishing to dominate himself . . Is this a contradiction to your earlier post "... It is human nature to not want to be dominated..."

This is a tricky topic Deep. .

[edhan]

5706

The question asked by my kids - Is there life after death?

[Tubby]

5707

5706

The question asked by my kids - Is there life after death?


AHA. . there is a perfectly good reason that your kids asked you edhan.

If they asked me (for example) they could not be sure It was the right answer.

If I were you edhan I would be proud that it was me they asked. . and not some local group or organisation.

[deepsand]

5709


I do not know Deep. (had not thought that deeply about it)

but the thought occurs that not accepting the need to sleep - will bring us to a grinding halt.

Without re-reading my posts. . I am not totally sure I wrote anything about 'not wanting' . . But I do think If you spent 24 hours slaving over something you needed to get done and were 'dead on your feet' so to speak and desperately trying to stay awake. . 'acceptance' would eliminate the 'self domination' that was being forced upon yourself.

Acceptance in this case (sleep) would remove the domination. . . and leave you free to snooze (for a while). .

I think a person can be dominated by their own needs. (percieved or otherwise)

This might be a case of a person actually wishing to dominate himself . . Is this a contradiction to your earlier post "... It is human nature to not want to be dominated..."

This is a tricky topic Deep. .
Indeed it is, as it ultimately leads to the greater debate as to whether or not free will truly exists.

[Tubby]

5710

5709


Indeed it is, as it ultimately leads to the greater debate as to whether or not free will truly exists.

free will exists? - I saw one Deep, It was about fifty yards away in light scrub country. I never had my rifle with me. Just as well . . I would hate to go down as the person that killed free will. (it was a fast moving agile little bastard)

( (I keep forgeting to number these posts I have to return to add them with an edit)

[Tubby]

5711

Afterthought - Might be that 'free will' can only be expressed in %points

[deepsand]

5712


free will exists? - I saw one Deep, It was about fifty yards away in light scrub country. I never had my rifle with me. Just as well . . I would hate to go down as the person that killed free will. (it was a fast moving agile little bastard)
Look anything like the whippoorwill?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUDZsKa0W9tAIPTAQae16RtZt1cWVSu y0dOYqoSQXO_nzoqJU&t=1&usg=__B2SEyHZVsb1yxmRpg4EU6--xRX0=


(I keep forgeting to number these posts I have to return to add them with an edit)
I've gotten in the habit of first placing TBD at the top, and editing it after I see what Post No. it turned out to be.

[Tubby]

5713

5712
Look anything like the whippoorwill?
.

No nothing like it . . In Australia freewill evolved without wings. freewill over here is a ground dwelling creature . . Basically it makes a lot of noise, but the creature is mostly hidden by scrub and rarely makes an appearance.

Sort of like a lemming - but more agile and deceptive. Atheists ate most of them and they accepted an almost similar fate to the Dodo in New Zealand. . They did have one on display in Melbourne zoo a few years back, but they made it wear a seat belt during feeding time and it refused to eat. . .

I am Glad the Americans still have the 'wiffer' (affectionate term) . . USA always was the land of the free!

[deepsand]

5714


No nothing like it . . In Australia freewill evolved without wings. freewill over here is a ground dwelling creature . . Basically it makes a lot of noise, but the creature is mostly hidden by scrub and rarely makes an appearance.
Aside from the lack of wings, is most descriptive of the whippoorwill. Nests on leaves on the ground, and need to be nearly stepped on to get them to take flight.


Atheists ate most of them and they accepted an almost similar fate to the Dodo in New Zealand.
For reasons still unknown, the US population of whippoorwill has greatly declined (down 93% from 1983 in New York state alone), such that it is now an endangered species. Oddly, that is not the case worldwide.

[Tubby]

I think it was Persistent Barrack Obama when referring to the decline of freewill & whippoorwill. said "We shall fight them on the beaches . . . We shall never surrender!"

I found that so Inspiring I threw away my bra.

[deepsand]

5716

I simply refused to wear one since early childhood; one less thing to launder.

[Tubby]

All we need now is to teach the whippoorwills to hang them in trees and use them as nests - stopping people from treading on them.

Cmon all you guys, throw away your bra's -

[deepsand]

5718

Given their coloration, brown & white speckled bras would be most highly preferred by 'wills.

[kgun]

5719


Hands up anybody who has applied to join the army or the navy... or any big company... or applied for any job, really.

Source: Sovereign Consumer vs the Sovereign God (http://heidelblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/sovereign-consumer-vs-the-sovereign-god/)


Fear just “ain’t” in the vocabulary. “Inch-by-inch, foot-by-foot-, yard-by-yard, forward for there will be no retreat.USMC General, Guadacanal.

[kgun]

5720

Big difference between contractual relationships and simple domination.
The most can be bought for money:roll:.

Consumer sovereignity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_sovereignty) and free consumer choice and preferences are a huge subject in economics.

But there is a big but.

A stone-hard budget restriction.

Money is the modern sword.

[briguy]

5721

5690



When I had plenty of money, I had 4 girlfriends simultaneously. It was quite a physical strain. (They all wanted to eat along with you, like a wife.) Wouldn't been cheaper to rent them...that what I heard.




Cmon all you guys, throw away your bra's -Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Tubby, just started to fit my training bra nicely ! Must I?

[Tubby]

5272


5721

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Tubby, just started to fit my training bra nicely ! Must I?

No - you do not have to! - we have free will.

But . . if you are content to contribute the the destruction of innocent birds. If your own selfishness deprives a few suffering chicks of a shelter during hard times. If you can not reach out a hand of assistance to another of Gods creatures, heading on the pathway to extinction because of your own personal selfishness.

Then Keep your bra. (I just know it looks good)

I personally have thrown away my underpants as well . . (Freeballing to save the wildlife)

[weegillis]

5723

Gone to wearing a kilt, Tubby?

[kgun]

5724
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson


Sir Alexander Chapman "Alex" Ferguson, Knight Bachelor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Bachelor), CBE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire), popularly known as Sir Alex or Fergie (born 31 December 1941 in Govan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govan), Glasgow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow)) is a Scottish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland) football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football) manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_%28sports%29) and former player, currently managing Manchester United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_United_F.C.), where he has been in charge since 1986.

Genious Scottish manager.

[C0ldf1re]

5725


... Wouldn't been cheaper to rent them...that what I heard...

Several years ago, I was having a difference of opinion with an ex-girlfriend in London's theatreland. It went along these lines:-

"Why don't you just go to a prostitute? That's all you want me for!"

"I'll probably get a sensible conversation too. That'll be two things she can do better than you."

"Go on then!"

"OK. And you can just think of another girl getting £10 from me that you could have had."

"Oh, you're so mean! Give the girl £20, and say the extra was from me." She thrusts £10 into my pocket, hails a cab, and disappears.

Shortly afterwards, I am giving another girl the £10 she has asked for, plus another £10 that I explain is a tip from my girlfriend. She understands immediately.

She understands immediately?!? Do women have some secret logic of their own that is forever impenetrable to men?

[deepsand]

5726


Do women have some secret logic of their own that is forever impenetrable to men?
More like a hive mentality.

[Tubby]

5727


5723

Gone to wearing a kilt, Tubby?

No! . . . I just flop around in old blue jeans.

My Great Grandmother was Scottish ( Menzies ) I was in a school play that had some sort of Scottish connection when I was at school and she said to me something like " Di yoo nee ivver weer a kilt that's nooo Mengis." That is about my only memory of her. .

So If I ever wear a kilt. . It would need to be the correct one - I would not want the old girl climbing out of her grave in anger!

[deepsand]

5728


So If I ever wear a kilt. . It would need to be the correct one - I would not want the old girl climbing out of her grave in anger!
Raises an interesting question re. how many of the various tartans that once existed are still available.

[edhan]

5729


5707



AHA. . there is a perfectly good reason that your kids asked you edhan.

If they asked me (for example) they could not be sure It was the right answer.

If I were you edhan I would be proud that it was me they asked. . and not some local group or organisation.

Yes. You are right! And they are quite satisfied knowing what comes when it is time to RIP.

[deepsand]

5730

Good evening Ed; I trust all is well with your and yours.

[edhan]

5731

Seems like it is settled for the better ... Thanks!

[deepsand]

5732

That's good to hear.

Now, how's the plan for a trek to New Zealand coming?

[edhan]

5733

Likely to be 2011 as we are preparing ourselves with hourly walk. Must build up stamina since it will be hiking all the way!

[deepsand]

5734

Hiking away from civilization is good for the soul.

[byronc]

5731 +1 must enter a long astring here ?

[byronc]

5736 - just to get the numbers right

[Tubby]

5728


Raises an interesting question re. how many of the various tartans that once existed are still available.

If I recall tartans are woven. Only the pattern needs to be remembered, simply make one when you need it.

It is far harder to find a pair of hairy stout legs than create a new Kilt. .

[deepsand]

5738

I was thinking of lost patterns, and the difficulties that might be faced trying to find someone to do the weaving for patterns that were no longer in high demand.

[Tubby]

5739

The Scottish hang on very tightly to anything to do with their tradition. (the rumour is they hang on tightly to everything)

Plenty of looms in scotland. You can buy them new or old . . It is a better hobby than collecting stamps, it is a traditional craft not likely to die out soon.

I would bet you could pick up a small loom and do a course in traditional weaving right where you live.

[byronc]

5740 - i'll be sure to do that..

[byronc]

5741 - anyone around here do mailshots?

[deepsand]

5742


I would bet you could pick up a small loom and do a course in traditional weaving right where you live.
No doubt that's the case; but, the resulting craftsmanship might allow of more than a little want. While an accomplished carpenter, I sucked at basket weaving at summer camps. :lol:


5740 - i'll be sure to do that..
We'll be counting the posts 'till you do. :wink:

[deepsand]

5743


anyone around here do mailshots?
Strictly femailshots here.

[byronc]

5744, cmon deep, that things not working anymore

[deepsand]

5745

Did you forget that this is the Castle Break Room?

[byronc]

5746 - funnily, I told some one I was doing mailshots yest and they looked at me funny asked me if they were risque' (spelling) - they were not IT literate...

[byronc]

5757 - we can argue here too i guess deep

[byronc]

5759 - if thats what you mean

[deepsand]

5749

Argue? What argument? Did I miss one? Are we in different time lines?

[edhan]

5750

Be at peace and hiking will be great.