Google.co.uk - UK results - A key point

[dviney]

Ok UK SEOs - we had a good rant recently about the .com on UK results issue (that Matt Cutts and the Google team seem to have started tackling).

Now I'd like to set another little teaser. I am sure it will not have escaped your notice that a "results from the UK" query produces a search query in Google that includes (both) the operators:

cr=countryGB
cr=countryUK

I am sure that you will have further discovered that if you delete the cr=countryGB operator (so that only the cr=countryUK operator is there) the results are generally (a) cleaner and (b) include fewer non-UK-based sites.

So my question is this: Why do Google use both operators? Surely the actual difference (if any) should simply be Northern Ireland sites?

Based on your responses, I plan to approach Matt with this (as Google are clearly focused on the issue right now so timing is good).

Please let rip and post up your example sites and observations.

D.

[dburdon]

D.,

despite Matt Cutts' reassurances the problem for UK hosted dot.coms seems to have got worse.

Interesting little trick - excluding GB from the operators. I noticed a sharp fall in sites. Not sure why Google includes both GB and UK in the operators.

[ctabuk]

Good post
Google favours this site over mine and it is the worst example of a high ranking site that I have seen
www.proviser.com/mortgage_centre/special/right_to_buy.html?L - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Check the tags

[craigmn3]

Google strikes me as a fairy dancing atop a giant bubble, trying to keep it from bursting. Well the UK Bubble burst and this is them slapping bandaids all over it. Give them a while, they'll get it right.......right? they will won't they???

Since the daily post "read replies" didn't come to this post, pat yourself all on the back for figuring out how to come here.

[danners02]

D.,
despite Matt Cutts' reassurances the problem for UK hosted dot.coms seems to have got worse.


Agree - makes no sense to me ... but then I got adversely affected!

[brucet]

I am sure it will not have escaped your notice that a "results from the UK" query produces a search query in Google that includes (both) the operators:

cr=countryGB
cr=countryUK

I'm probably a bit thick but I hadn't noticed that at all. :-)

AFAICS cr=countryUK delivers all .uk domains, and cr=countryGB delivers all the rest (.com, .org, .im etc). Is that your understanding of the difference?

[sunbedkid]

If Google is making these very obvious algorithems, then it should make them public knowledge. Then at least, companies would know that if they wish to target a UK only audience, then they should not have a .com domain name. I do not think that it is referenced in the Google patent.

I noticed this sometime back, and have developed accordingly, but it was only through observasion and trial and error. It could be just another experiment and sort itself out eventually.

[LRHand]

It seems to be .org too.

[dviney]

AFAICS cr=countryUK delivers all .uk domains, and cr=countryGB delivers all the rest (.com, .org, .im etc). Is that your understanding of the difference?

This is the key question - and requires research / help from you guys.

My theory is that all .co.uk and .org.uk sites are put into the cr=countryUK pot. Then all sites hosted in the UK or address verified to the UK (through Google Maps) get put into the cr=countryGB pot (including .co.uk sites - i.e. a superset).

The two are then conflated in some way to produce the overall "pages from the UK" results. The conflation is clumsily achieved through using both operators in the raw search.

I suspect the operators are being used temporarily for this purpose (as I can see no evidence that their logical original purpose - i.e. to separate out sites from Northern Ireland - is working).

What is clear to me (I am afraid) is that the volume of links from UK sites is currently irrelevant to Google's "pages from the UK" algo! (Apols to all SEMs who have so vociferously recommended this for years, including myself)

Why so sure? Well, 95% of the 1,000+ links to my site http://www.uk-wedding-directory.com are from UK based businesses, but because the site is hosted with 1and1.co.uk (servers in Germany) Google will not recognise the site as from the UK.

This is why the site is #1 on google.co.uk (regular search) for "uk wedding directory" but nowhere on the "pages from the UK search". However, it ranks #1 for "wedding directory" on google.de (Seiten aus Deutschland).

[p.s. sorry for repeating this - I know has been in older posts - but wanted to make clear how my evidence for conslusions had been drawn]

One interesting fallout from this is that (despite their size) I will never recommend 1and1.co.uk to UK customers again - it's just too risky not to have your servers in the UK! Pity as their service standards are good.

[ADS(o)(o)]

Just like to point out Northern Ireland is part of the UK so why should there be a difference.

[dviney]

Just like to point out Northern Ireland is part of the UK so why should there be a difference.

What I meant was that N.I. is part of the UK but is not part of GB (so the only logical difference between UK and GB should be NI based sites). However, I doubt Google have ever used the operators to try to do this.

As such, I think the way Google compute "pages from the UK" (i.e. GB+UK) is unique in the world. In other places like Canada there is only one operator.

My question is (1) why have two operators and, I guess, (2) could this be contributing to Google's current problems with UK results?

As for Eire? Yahoo bring UK and Eire together (see http://uk.search.yahoo.com) whilst Google have an Irish search engine (http://www.google.ie).

[activeco]

What I see is that results using cr=countryGB and cr=countryUK are mutually excluded, meaning no same url in other results!
Besides, puting both operators in url produces results only from the last one, not from both.

Furthermore, most co.uk domains are excluded from GB results.
E.g. http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fagot+site%3Aco.uk&cr=countryGB

but e.g.: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=website+site:co.uk&lr=&cr=countryGB produce some results.
Didn't have much time for this, but it is like all co.uk.'s from the last example have either IP or at least one of the nameservers outside UK (uhm...GB).

For UK market I think the best bet is:
- whois registrant having UK address
- IP (server) located in UK
- all nameservers having UK addresses

[ctabuk]

For my main search terms .uk and .com are now showing virtually identicle results - with one exception - Wikipedia is on .com and not on .co.uk

Any takers?

[ctabuk]

I have added this thread here
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/infrastructure-status-january-2007/