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pete61uk
02-04-2004, 04:31 AM
Hi All,

Assuming I get time I've been teetering for ages on 'trying' to get into PHP and MySQL.

After my last break I downloaded the latest stable release of MySQL but lost confidence when it required connection to the web (Monitor) with no explaination on starting up?

I've seen a number of downloads with various software/server combinations (IIS and Apache) and different versions (not necessarilly the latest stable release), but none with (I'm guessing) all the tools required?

Not to be a pain, but can anyone explain what the best combination of tools are, if there is an "all-in-one" download and setup solution, and if they are supported by full documentation?

paulhiles
02-04-2004, 04:51 AM
Hi Pete,

phpdev from firepages - php, mysql, apache preconfigured for windows
http://www.firepages.com.au
I've heard glowing reports of this particular "all-in-one" offering. I downloaded it myself a couple of months ago, but I've been so busy I haven't tried it out for myself. However the feedback I've had from others is excellent.
Forums, tutorials are all available through the website. NB: phpdev423 is the current stable release although a beta version 5 is available.

Paul

cyanide
02-04-2004, 11:49 AM
seems paulhiles is taking my job LOL

Yes, pete
I always push this package
I've been using it for about 2 years now
Just beware that it's not considered stable enough to use in a live environment

However, IMO it's the best way to emulate a live server environment on your pc, whether you're using php or just straight html.

saves alot of time
it also includes perl
there are a few different packages to choose from, depending on what you want included

pete61uk
02-06-2004, 10:07 AM
Thank you both.

I have seen the firepages site before, but it didn't describe fully what was in the download packages listed, or provide full documentation, that or I couldn't find where it did?

Cyanide, I'm guessing that if you have been using it for two years there should be a more up-to-date stable release by now?

No matter, the purpose I envisage is that of off-line development and testing for a proposed up-dated version/adaptation of my existing site. When ready it would then be uploaded to my existing server (Easyspace) which, though the facilities are not currently in use, is already MySQL and PHP enabled, so it should be OK?

Mind, if Apache is "the server of choice", should I dissable IIS before loading it? If I do it means I'll have to set-up my existing dreamweaver site on its root, right?

Also, MySQLAdmin (I've seen it mentioned before). Would I need that, and if so, what exactly does it do?

cyanide
02-06-2004, 04:21 PM
Thank you both.

I have seen the firepages site before, but it didn't describe fully what was in the download packages listed, or provide full documentation, that or I couldn't find where it did?

Cyanide, I'm guessing that if you have been using it for two years there should be a more up-to-date stable release by now?
No matter, the purpose I envisage is that of off-line development and testing for a proposed up-dated version/adaptation of my existing site. When ready it would then be uploaded to my existing server (Easyspace) which, though the facilities are not currently in use, is already MySQL and PHP enabled, so it should be OK?
During the 2 years, there was an update.
The current version, I believe is php4.2.3 and Apache 1.27 or something. Anyway, I haven't had any problems with it. Apparently there is another release(phpdev5) coming up soon.
Bear in mind this is not a company, just one guy doing this in his spare time. And, really I can't recommend it enough.
Actually, if you contact mikmik or Matauri, they can probably give you feedback. I told them both to try it out.
Yes, this package will be just like running your live server. You design and program your site, like you normally would, then just upload it. The only thing you'll have to change is absolute root directory
eg:
perl: live -->/user/bin/perl locally --> C:phpdev/perl/perl.exe
root: live -->/home/username/html/ locally -->C:/phpdev/www/username/
(obviously your live configuration may differ)


Mind, if Apache is "the server of choice", should I dissable IIS before loading it? If I do it means I'll have to set-up my existing dreamweaver site on its root, right?
Well, in honesty, I'm not too familiar with IIS (I don't currently use it) BUT the best part of this package is that it doesn't conflict with your pc whatsoever. No entries in your register and if you decide to get rid of it, you just have to delete the entire folder. No need to go to Add/Remove Programs.
No need to move Dreamweaver anywhere.
The only thing you'll have to do is edit the sites.
Because all your sites will have to go in the phpdev/www/ directory


Also, MySQLAdmin (I've seen it mentioned before). Would I need that, and if so, what exactly does it do?
Do you mean phpmyadmin ?? Yes that's included.
Although you may want to download a more recent version. phpMyAdmin helps you to manage MySQL

To launch Apache, you just need to click the bat file
One thing to remeber is that it can only be installed to the C drive. Any other drive, and you'll have a difficult time getting it going

pete61uk
02-07-2004, 05:28 AM
Pardon my little faux pas, I did of course mean phpmyadmin. As mentioned earlier, there are plenty of sources that mention it; plenty that say it is essential, and others - presumably at my ‘subterranean' level – that say it is more an experienced programmers tool and (Dani) has a "clunky" interface?

If included in the firepages package (but not the current stable release) if I download the current version will it migrate automatically, or would I have to delete the old and go through the configuration set-up again?

Security query:

Once the user name and localhost are defined are there any default user accounts I should be aware of (in any of the programs) that could become an issue?

As you suggest, I'll ask for feedback from mikmik and matauri. Mind you, I'm guessing their experience is such that they both had a significant head-start?

Lastly (this post):

As mentioned in my first post, my main issue with researching this, and getting actively involved/dirty, was one of shattered confidence when unable to get answers I badly needed. I can assure you that I will continue to be a pain-in-the-ass asking seemingly (probably) stupid questions.

Your patience is much appreciated.

mikmik
02-07-2004, 07:22 AM
pete61uk wrote
As you suggest, I'll ask for feedback from mikmik and matauri. Mind you, I'm guessing their experience is such that they both had a significant head-start?
Hey pete, how goes?

I am only involved in computers at all for <2 years, and web developement for < 1.5.

I ran IIS and PHP before this for about 2 months - I also use DreamWeaverMX.

I had a big problem 3 weeks ago so I heeded cyanide and try phpdev, but it was first time and didn't know about perl module install.


I just re-installed all 3 days ago.

I did not install IIS, I think that there would be a conflict. However, phpdev4.2.3 runs perfectly on it's own.

MySQL installs and runs automatically - everything in this package installs, self configures, and runs.

INSTALLATION

1). Run the download phpdev423.exe. Time it takes to install: almost instant!!

2). Go to your start menu/all programs and click the appropriate (depends on your OS - I use XP pro) icon to start it up and make sure it runs. It will launch several command promt windows in quick succession and also launch your IE browser.
To keep the phpdev server (apache 1.3) running, minimize the remaining command prompt window to your taskbar.

3). So now, if all launched properly, close the command window, your browser window, and the Apache moniter (it is running in the sys tray beside the clock)
Run 'phpdev423 mod perl.exe' - it also insatalls and self configures quickly and automatiacally.

4).Start it up from the 'start munu'.Make sure everything runs properly. Shut it all down again, the same way as before.

5). Now what I did next was to go to the c:\phpdev\www folder and clean everything in there into a containing folder so that it was empty.

6). Move the contents of your website's root folder into the 'www' folder. I must add here that I had my own cgi-bin folder with scripts already in it - otherwise I would have left the original one out of the 'clean-up' folder I made.

7). Create site in dreamWeaver the same way as you did with IIS.

8). Remember to start phpdev whenever you want to work on your site - I always seem to forget whenever I open up DreamWeaver lol.

9). Come back here and ask me explain more if necessary.

10). Send an e-mail, or better yet, go to the support forum, and thank the guy for such a trouble free and simple set-up but at the same time tell him that it would sure be nice if he provided some installation instructions so that us newbies could use the damn thing!

11). Become the dominate web developer in the universe with me haha ;o)

*note - I have noticed that the sql server does not shut down with the rest of it so I use taskmanager to 'kill process' when I am done with it all.

pete61uk
02-07-2004, 12:47 PM
My total 'play-time' with this stuff you could probably count in weeks. Its just been spread really thin over the past two years. LOL.

Anyway, I've just downloaded phpdev423.exe and am going to checkout the MySQL, PHP and Apache sites before biting the bullet.

mikmik (or should that be "Mik the Merciless?"), your 11-step guide to becoming "the dominant web developers in the universe", is (I hesitate to frame it) printed.

Perhaps, a little over-ambitious? FOLMAO. We do have to dream sometimes.

pete61uk
02-08-2004, 05:55 AM
Going on the principal that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing", I always think it safer to assume that I know a little about a lot (mostly, too little), and a lot about nothing!

Consequently, that tends me towards the belief that anyone knows more than I do about anything! A safe assuption when it comes to anthing "techie" that I've never used before.

So, why is it that when trying to find information the authors seem to assume that the reader is familiar with the subject at hand?

Having the attention span of a six year old, I find that most tutorial documents are good at explaining "what" to do; most explain "when" to do it. However, I've yet to find one that tells me "why" you are doing it. And all, it seems, use technical language without defining it for the user first. Frustrating, or what!

Ah well, that's my rant over for today.

Whilst looking around I did find tutorial links on firepages, most of which point here:

http://www.devshed.com/ - a mind-blowing collection of Apache, MySQL and PHP resources. Others include:

http://www.umesd.k12.or.us/php/win32install.html.
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/

I spent mind-numbing hours just looking at the devshed site. Most of it fell within catagories listed in my "rant" but did provide some useful information, even an article for using php in DWMX. The rest, I need to get a tech-dictionary for. That, or get wenwilder to write one for me?

At least you guys talk in English!

pete61uk
02-08-2004, 12:49 PM
Well, the phpdev 4.2.3 installation went as forcast.

My thanks to all and, if anyone wants a copy of mikmiks' "11 stages to becoming the dominant web developer in the universe", ask him. LOL.

A couple of things:

1) Am I right in saying that, as apache is set-up as an 'intranet' service, there is no need to alter the default user status? Or should I password protect it anyway?

What is 'good practice' here, and should it apply to phpmyadmin and mysql also?

2) In my first post I mentioned that I (albeit briefly) had mysql on my pc as a server. The user interface looked different to that on phpmyadmin.

Does everyone here use phpmyadmin, or another interface?

cyanide
02-08-2004, 03:06 PM
Hey, pete,

Glad you got it fired up.
Yes, phpMyAdmin is the most popular MySQL management interface. Used primarily if you are developing a script or are transferring database info or the entire database.

1. Yes you can leave it as is. Works for me.

There will be a few things that are different.
For example, most hosts now have register_globals turned on by default.
To have a look, create a blank php page called phpinfo.php and inside put <? echo phpinfo(); ?> and upload to your root,
then type in yourdomain.com/phpinfo.php
You can see what it looks like locally by typing http://localhost/phpinfo.php
on the local server, register_globals are turned OFF.
So all you need to do, is create an .htaccess file and put php_flag_register_globals ON
This will turn it back on, to match your host if necessary.

One good way to get used to it all, is install a freeware app like phpbb for example.
If you already have a database, database user name and password, go ahead and install it on your live server. It's pretty straight forward.

Then what I do is install the same program on localhost.
In this case YOU have to create the database and info.
fire up phpMyAdmin to create a database. To simplify things, I like to keep the names the same.
So, if your database is called forum_pete , then create that locally.
Now, click on the database you just created. There should be a link called sql
In the large text box we're going to give permissions to the database based on your live database.
For arguments sake, let's assume, your username is user_pete and password is
password
In that text box, enter GRANT ALL PERMISSIONS ON forum_pete.* TO user_pete@localhost identified by 'password';

Obviously swap, database name, user name and pssword appropriately.
So, now your localhost database is set up to emulate your live environment.
Go to http://localhost/petesdomain/phpbb/ and install just as you did live.

Hopefully you went through that unscathed.
Now, manipulate and design phpbb to your preferences.

Once you're happy with it, then it's time to get it live. The one thing you don't want to do is copy all the folders and files to your live server.

Unless you opened up some of the files to hack, the only thing you need to upload is the database and the design templates.
The design templates should be easy enough, just locate the folder you edited and upload all the contents.
As for the database go to your localhost database and do an export(dump). Don't select the structure, just the data and save as pete_forum.sql
Next go to your live phpMyAdmin and empty the database, but keep the structure. Then import the local database data by locating it on your hard-drive.

For manipulating the database like above, you may want to do it sooner, rather than at the very end, just to get the hang of it and incase you #$%!@#% it up LOL
For example, on the local version, register as a user and make a couple of posts. Then take that database and import it to your live version as explained above. Then navigate to where you made these posts and hopefully they are there.

Lots 'o fluff above, hope it helps

pete61uk
02-10-2004, 07:06 AM
Information overload, Woah Cyanide!

I've printed off your last post, its too much to take-in in one go. I'm sure I'll have some requests for clarification later?

Up to my neck in assignments research, and still looking into security configuration issues, I'll get back to it later and go through it s-l-o-w-l-y.

I did have a quick look at phpbb, interesting. Mind, I'm thinking off the cuff when I say it could be utilised instead of providing 'spy'-derable e.mail links and contact forms?

Still, a work-in-progress, "I'll be back!"

cyanide
02-10-2004, 11:26 AM
Information overload, Woah Cyanide!

I've printed off your last post, its too much to take-in in one go. I'm sure I'll have some requests for clarification later?

Up to my neck in assignments research, and still looking into security configuration issues, I'll get back to it later and go through it s-l-o-w-l-y.

I did have a quick look at phpbb, interesting. Mind, I'm thinking off the cuff when I say it could be utilised instead of providing 'spy'-derable e.mail links and contact forms?

Still, a work-in-progress, "I'll be back!"
Especially for me.
I don't normally write long posts.
Anyhow the above example can be used for most ready-made type scripts. I just happened to use phpbb.

HomeStar
02-12-2004, 11:44 AM
You can alos try using foxserv. It's an all in one php/mysql installer. Very easy to install. www.foxserv.net

Good luck.

mikmik
02-12-2004, 01:47 PM
HomeStar said
You can alos try using foxserv. It's an all in one php/mysql installer.
Cool!

I was concerned with the Apache version, etc. and will check this out.
(Here we go again LOL)

LOOK! http://www.foxserv.net/documentation/index.html

cyanide
02-12-2004, 02:23 PM
Yeah, I heard about foxserv also.

Haven't had the time to check it out.

Not enought hours in the day bah !

mikmik
02-14-2004, 11:22 AM
Life gets beter every day (I am such a geek propellerhead LOL)

mikmik (that's me!) wrote
HomeStar saidQuote:
You can alos try using foxserv. It's an all in one php/mysql installer.

Cool!

I was concerned with the Apache version, etc. and will check this out.
(Here we go again LOL)

LOOK! http://www.foxserv.net/documentation/index.html

So, I go to this page (http://www.foxserv.net/portal_database.php?action=view&fid=23&cid=1&PHPSESSID=b6caf102fc16d29aec732f3c44d1cbb3), right?! - and I do the download, ver. 3.0 Gold, right?!

So I read install instructions, right?

It says that if you do not install to the default of C:\FoxServe, make sure that your install directory path has no spaces like-:e.g. C:\Program Files\Foxserve\, because of the space between the words "Program" and "Files".

So let's go for broke, I say - I WONT INSTALL TO MY ROOT DIRECTORY OF "C:\", I'll try it on another partition!

I start the install, it says "Do you want to install to C:\FoxServe , if not change. I change. To E:\FoxServe\

So then it says enter a e-mail, eg "myname@localhost", so - mikmik@localhost!
Use port? it asks - recommended "80" - YES, I say.

Wham, bam, thank you maam, it is done.

I change my path in perl and cgi docs to - #!E:/FoxServ/perl/bin/perl - ... and... VOILA!!!

It auto installs MySQL, PHPmyAdmin, MySQL control panel, It runs as a service so is faster and uses less overhead (for some reason)

Just DO IT!

HomeStar, You RULE.

(Apache2.x, PHP4.2.2, perl 5.6.1, Pear, Python perl...)

paulhiles
02-14-2004, 11:37 AM
Enough of all this Pears, Pearls and Pythons talk Mik, is it any better than the phpdev package? Certainly sounds a cinch to install.. any points to watch out for? system requirements? security issues etc?

I know, I know.. Just Do It! right? ;o)

Paul

mikmik
02-14-2004, 12:27 PM
paulhiles wrote
I know, I know.. Just Do It! right? ;o)

LOL

Well, it seems much better, and PHPdev was a godsend for me.

It is just easier to install, as it is all in one - no seperate perl mods to install, and I seem to recall having to go into "Apache/config/" with phpdev to set some paths.

I haven't gotten to the point of trying much yet, and I am not very knowledgeable anyway, but it seems that there is less 'clutter' ie. it seems to be more 'tight' and properly integrated.

Like I noticed earlier, I am pretty sure that it co-exists with WinXP much better, it is deffinitely easier on the RAM. PHPdev would chew up 35 to 40 megs right off, and then act like a Win98 memory leak, after a few hrs I noticed that I had up to 100 MB's of RAM being used. This so far seems to need only about 15 MB to run - starting just Apache being an option with this one.

It also probably has better security being newer editions of everything.

The Apache monitor actually works, due to it being installed as a service. That may be the one thing that isn't quite as good with Fox', it installs into the windows system.

But I will check out putting scripts in deeper directories to see if Apache permissions are the same, or I could just look!

I can show you a phpinfo and the same for perl, if you would like, to see what mods are different.

Mostly though, the directory structure is mech 'cleaner' ie:
top level: %sysroot%/Foxserve/
next level:Apache/; batchfiles/; mysql/; perl/; php/; python/; sessiondata/; www/.

It is easier to start, you can just launch the apache service and then it all works, no need for a command window to be open, it is way faster,and the phpmyadmin is setup, as well as a seperate MySQL interface/admin/config interface.

If you have any more specific questions, I can be more help, as I don't really know what to look for. I have never used a database - they cost extra on my host.

HTH ;o)

cyanide
02-14-2004, 12:28 PM
Hey mikmik,

The question now is....
Have you actually tried to serve pages from it ??

Installation may have worked, but all the config files may still be pointing to C:/ as its root.

What I did when installing phpdev, is install it to C drive, but like you I like to keep that partition relatively small and since the 'www' directory is really the only part that will grow, I put that folder in H Drive. I hacked the conf file to point to H:/phpdev/www/

mikmik
02-14-2004, 12:31 PM
They all work. I put my site into /www/ like usual, changed the path in the perl, as above, and it all goes - nothing to configure.
PHP and cgi all is good.

Maybe you will hear the phone in about 1 minute lol

pete61uk
02-20-2004, 04:21 AM
Hey You Guys,

I turn my head for five minutes, someone lets their cat out, all hell breaks loose, and the pidgeons are flying all over the place.

Still up to my butt in assignments research and reports I've not gone beyond the phpdev installation. Perhaps, worthy of note (?) is an intermittent Apache error message regarding "reference memory............ could not be written?" Possibly moot, but any ideas?

paulhiles wrote:

"Enough of all this Pears, Pearls and Pythons talk Mik, is it any better than the phpdev package? Certainly sounds a cinch to install.. any points to watch out for? system requirements? security issues etc?"

My system config seems a bit different to yours - I only have a main C: Drive for programs, OS, etc., and D: slave used for isolated storage of working docs and any downloads so I can scan them prior to installation. So, I'd have to use the default C: Drive.

Anyway, any progress on assessing the strengths and/or weaknesses of phpdev against foxserve. Is one better to use/more user-friendly than the other?

Cheers

mikmik
02-20-2004, 07:12 AM
pete61uk is
still up to his butt in assignments research and reports I've not gone beyond the phpdev installation. Perhaps, worthy of note (?) is an intermittent Apache error message regarding "reference memory............ could not be written?" Possibly moot, but any ideas?

Still up to his butt in Romulin Ale, Suarian Brandy, and ...Oh, excuse me...I shouldn't point fingers...I mean...who isn't these days, ... right then.

Regarding Foxserve, mik*hic*mik wrote
So I read install instructions, right?

It says that if you do not install to the default of C:\FoxServe, make sure that your install directory path has no spaces like-:e.g. C:\Program Files\Foxserve\, because of the space between the words "Program" and "Files".

So let's go for broke, I say - I WONT INSTALL TO MY ROOT DIRECTORY OF "C:\", I'll try it on another partition!

I start the install, it says "Do you want to install to C:\FoxServe , if not change. I change. To E:\FoxServe\

So then it says enter a e-mail, eg "myname@localhost", so - mikmik@localhost!
Use port? it asks - recommended "80" - YES, I say.

Wham, bam, thank you maam, it is done.

I change my path in perl and cgi docs to - #!E:/FoxServ/perl/bin/perl - ... and... VOILA!!!

It auto installs MySQL, PHPmyAdmin, MySQL control panel, It runs as a service so is faster and uses less overhead (for some reason)

Just DO IT!

HomeStar, You RULE.

(Apache2.x, PHP4.2.2, perl 5.6.1, Pear, Python perl...)

Go to foxserve, I'm begging you. It is here:
http://www.foxserv.net/portal_database.php?action=view&fid=23&cid=1&PHPSESSID=b6caf102fc16d29aec732f3c44d1cbb3

It is:
1 - Easier to install than PHPdev;
2 - Chews up less real estate in your RAM
3 - Automatically install not just perl, but also Python (another perl "version/implimentation" that is very popular)
AND FINALLY,le Piece de rsistance, numero quatre, #4:
Apache 2.x, not 1.3, PHP 4.2.2, Not a different one LOL
Conclusion: Time for a celebration!

I like it much better than PHPdev, which I already really liked - but found that it was slightly buggier, and did not have MySQLAdmin. Foxserve starts much easier and is all auto config, but it doesn't have the 'forum' part with it, so keep that.

They are both very good, one is just a bit 'newer' and slicker and has more features (ALL the PHPmyAdmin amd SQL stuff is up and running immediately with Foxserve)

Here look: http://factor1.net/temp/index.html

pete61uk
02-21-2004, 01:30 AM
Hey mik hic* mik, that picture of your pal - he is still your pal? LOL - is just too cruel.

Reminds me of a bike tour of Europe before the college odyssey. After about a week of travelling and almost non-stop partying, exhausted, I fell asleep on a bench only to awaken covered in the contents of the rubbish bin with a rose perched precariously between my (still clothed) legs.

10 days; 2500 miles, and partying non-stop, or until you dropped. Great times!

Ah well, less of the nostagia.

I'll have a look at Foxserve later (when I'm more awake).

Cheers

mikmik
02-21-2004, 11:46 AM
Yes, I can see the pidgeons became quite agitated lol -

http://factor1.net/temp/wpw/pidgeonWasHere.jpg

cyanide
02-21-2004, 02:09 PM
Yes, I can see the pidgeons became quite agitated lol -

http://factor1.net/temp/wpw/pidgeonWasHere.jpg
Is that your car mikmik ??

One thing maybe to keep in mind is that most hosts are not running Apache 2...
I like to have a similar set up on my localhost as I do in the live environment.

mikmik
02-21-2004, 06:52 PM
You have a good point, as usual, cyanide, therefore:

I may have been overzealous in my promotion on Foxserve. Now that I have run it for a week and a half, it seems to be acting unreliably and not consistently - maybe due to my 'setup', WinXP, AV software, method of install, etc.

I will discuss and get back to you all here.
If something is already working good for you, I now say be cautious, don't fix it if it ain't broke.

I hope I have not given bad advice, buit I need to know if I have.
Foxserve certainly ran as advertized at first, don't get me wrong, and I play around testing software a lot, but I should temper my words at times.
Thanks cyanide.

pete61uk
02-22-2004, 03:44 AM
All Easyspace packages are hosted on high performance Linux servers running Zeus web server technology?

With the point made by cyanide in mind, could be a fly in the ointment. Any suggestions, or are plans 'a/b' (phpdev or Foxserve) still current thinking?

pete61uk
02-22-2004, 03:58 AM
UP LATE MIKMIK?

I've just checked Zeus Server out, is not open-source. Makes me wonder which way to turn. Apache or IIS?

mikmik
02-22-2004, 04:07 AM
Well, speaking only for me and my pidgeon critter friends, sure, why not? I mean , you have several options, so might as well be one of them.
Hope this helps!

Good luck!!

I check back in a few month's, just in case you want more input - see how things are going, you know, always there to help and all.

Long live the Queen, then.

mikmik
02-22-2004, 05:25 AM
Dang.
I was hoping that petesixoneyoukay would look here by now, but then again, maybe he has and now isn't going to be back.
What kind of a sick and cruel mind would think of such a practical joke with such possibley drastic consequences?
I am appalled.
I so hope that I never stoop to the depths of depravity we have been witness to here.

Well, now. Zeus, it seems, it supports asp, which is a Microsoft and therefore IIS attribute by default, but I am not sure about Apache being able to do it, it may be asp backwards.
For phpdev/foxserve, it is easier to install foxserve - using about 12 calories of effort versus 13 for phpDev. Call it even.
But, that is the base install, which is all that is necessary with fox, phd takes some extra few dozens of calories to install perl, but I know not if it will take MySQL Admin.

I think I definitely have to tip my hat to fox, in this category, Apache and all auto install - as services at that - but seem to use less memory.

The point cyanide makes is pertinate, but you have Zeus loose on your server and I forgot to check what Apache, PHP, and perl it has.

I would go for Fox. But...

There is also a tutorial, downlode, intro setup on the WebDev pages for installing Apache/php/perl/MySQL on IIS. In fact, that is how I would have it if something wasn't inexplicably disrupting a background service, that Apache deponds upon to run, from running after I rebooted Apache. Probably the PHP, but not sure.

It might not happen, but that setup is actual work, and can take an hour of testing and configuring - but it is very instructional and enlightening. It is really simple, just time consunming.

I would - but this is me talking, go Apache on IIS if you are up to it, for ASP is good to know, but then you need to know VBS for it, and I actually don't use it much anymore.

Please ask away, I am sleep deprived and not sure how it got to be April and you haven't replied yet, so we can get more into the details and specifics, if necessary, if I can say Saurian brn..br..brmdy..br..br..wine!

pete61uk
02-23-2004, 02:54 AM
mikmik wrote:

"Well, speaking only for me and my pidgeon critter friends.......... etc.,"

You haven't been putting bread-crumbs in your hair, have you? I'm not sure if the second post was written by you (yourself), or 'by you' as directed by the pidgeons? I'll have to decipher it later.

Way too late an hour for you to be playing with pidgeons mikmik. And stop sharing the Saurian Brandy with them, you saw what happened to that car. That's what they'll do to you.

Whether to emulate your server is a significant fly in the ointment. However, so is agreeing on what, for research purposes, is becoming industry standard? Open source is obviously very important work, the success of MySQL and PHP are a (combined) case in point. Hmm, FOX, Hmm?

Take care

pete61uk
02-23-2004, 12:11 PM
Well, I'm back (again). Depths of depravity notwithstanding, I wonder if the pidgeons have put mikmik down yet, or have they done to him what they did to that car? :-)

Anyway, Apache, Zeus, IIS. Decisions, decisions. Concensus, both here and in college, points squarely at Apache and the Foxserve download. So, Foxserve it is.

Re mikmik's note, if I remember right it has MySQL Admin in the package?

I must remember to disable IIS this time, at least then I'll remember to move roots (nothing to do with hair, if wenwilder reads this). LOL. Perhaps then (assignments permiting) I'll start to make progress.

mikmik
02-23-2004, 08:05 PM
Good call.

i have my senses back now and can provide lucid support - just a sec (turns and yells, "I told you to FLUSH, and use toilet paper..what?..bunch it up then!"...returns, muttering "F***G Pidgeons, let them roost over for a couple of days, and they think they own the place, grrrr") - okay I'm back.

Yes SQLadmin 3.0. PHPmyAdmin.
Perl. Python. Uses less resources. Runs quicker. Installs easier. Uninstall real fast and clean (lol been there already - but it is a prob with DreamWeaver, not Foxserve, which I love again)(as a friend, I mean).

Yes, I would just go to add/remove Windows components in the Copntrol Panel and "Terminate IIS with extreme prejudice" cause you probably don't need it causing disturbances due to jealosy over the new server software.

Funny though, I was reading my e-mail TODAY earlier, and low and behold, a tutorial series on putting all this stuff into IIS! It is in the DevShed site somewhere, I can get a link, but it is an ongoing tutorial and this week it is configuring PHP, so it sounds like a lifelong endeavor. vs 53 seconds. Hmmmm.

pete61uk
02-24-2004, 02:57 AM
mikmik,

While I was trying to imagine the pidgeons snacking in your breadcrumbed hair, it did put me in mind of Hitchcocks' "The Birds".

A much more satisfying image and, I'm sure you'd agree, at least as far as crows and North America is concerned, much more ethnically significant. So, be advised, the spirits might be watching?

I have been torn where IIS is concerned, not least because it comes with the MS 2K Pro OS I use. I have seen a few IIS tutorials, but if few companies use it, is it really worth having it?

However, commercially at least, unless its a really small company with a private intranet and only limited access to the web for key personnel I'm not sure its used that extensively. My guess, based on research, is that the likes of .NET with SQL Server - both commercial - and Linux and Apache - open source - are far more popular?

Realistically, I suppose the real importance is in gaining confidence of configuring and maintaining systems to meet your requirements. Also, getting used to the jargon, or finding sources (such as WPW) where a simplistic query might get a coherent reply?

mikmik
02-24-2004, 05:06 AM
Unfortunately, pete61uk, I am real busy and therefore have to revert to my 'no nonsense' personality for the duration of this post.

Both ASP and .NET are microsoft, and I have some stats that show the breakdown of servers with IIS, Apache, NT4, Redhat, solaris, etc.

I can't remember if Apache can run ASP, but for the short term, it only takes a very little amout of time
to install Foxserve, and then at least you are immediately up and running PHP and perl.

I am going to put IIS back on my computer in a few weeks, and I have my hard drive set up so I can have 'dual boot', ie two OS's, so I want both.

If you are interested, we could do it together later, the IIS install, and even if you just changed from Apache, it is still a matter of just saving and inserting your site into the new one.
I like knowing and having IIS, there are a lot of eCommerce sites that use it, and you have the option of ASP and coldfusion and .net then.

I think that for CM, it is about 50-50 between the big two, and it is also a good way to learn as finely detailed the operation of Windows server software as you want. It is really interesting and very powerful with lots of security stuff to learn.
Did you know that security admins are the highest paid in the inter- and intranet industry?
$250,000 US per year avg. I want to know security stuff eventually!

Could you pleas tell me what your computer specs are?
CPU, RAM, Hard disk size?

I can make video tutorials of my desktop activities real easy, and want to do that while installing IIS.

Web server survey (http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html)

Here is a list (http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/04/14/who_are_the_fastest_growing_hosting_providers.html ) of the fastest growing service providers.

The top 3 all run Windows, but for all sites in general, I think that Apache outnumbers 2 to 1.

I'll be back soon.

pete61uk
02-25-2004, 05:51 AM
Hi mikmik,

In answer to your query:

OS Name Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
Version 5.0.2195 Service Pack 4 Build 2195
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd.
System Model VT8371
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 6 Model 3 Stepping 1 AuthenticAMD ~701 Mhz
Total Physical Memory 654,832 KB
Available Physical Memory 495,820 KB
Total Virtual Memory 1,882,688 KB
Available Virtual Memory 1,580,792 KB
Page File Space 1,227,856 KB
Hard-drive - Master - 18.6 Gb, os and programs
Hard-drive - Slave - 1.18 Gb used soley for documents and downloads

My processor is a bit slow, but I think I'm right in saying I can upgrade it to 1.2 Ghz? However, a moot point, it is always possible - provided I get a decent job over the summer - that I'll upgrade the system. To what, if I can, I don't yet know?

As to IIS, I believe it comes as standard with Win2KPro and XPPro? If you use Win98 2nd Ed. it comes with Personal Web Server (PWS).

I have been using IIS to view my site up till now and was really simple (even for me) to set up.

Obviously, I've never set it up for MySQL or PHP. Frankly, when I did download MySQL, and it requested access to the internet - 'MySQL Monitor' - it freaked me out. As I couldn't get any answer as to why it required access I chickened out and deleted it.

I downloaded FoxServe yesterday. A huge 33.1Mb it took three attempts as my dial-up connection download speed was varying from 12 kbps to as low as 5.18 taking me over the two hour session duration limit. Believe it or not, at one point it went below 4kbps?

At one point I had 98% of the download complete and the connection terminated. The air was a distinctly nasty shade of blue!

Imagine my suprise when, instead of detecting that 98% already downloaded and completing it, it started again from scratch.?????

Ah well, I've a big preliminary 'Systems Analysis and Design' (SAD - pun intended) assignment report to complete ready for a 'hoped-for' feedback session tomorrow. That before final submission on Monday.

mikmik
06-22-2004, 07:41 PM
I did a Google serach for http://www.google.ca/search?q=foxserve+downloads&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta= Foxserve downloads

We're famous!