Marketing Strategies

[janeth]

I've been working with my design company (http://www.geeksonsteroids.com) this week and have come to the conclusion that I want to get rid of some employees and go up on my prices. The idea behind it is that rather then try and do 100 websites at $550.00 a piece to make $5,500.00 per month cut the bills down around $3,000.00 and sale one website at $3,000.00. If we do 3 websites a month we only have to deal with 3 customers and the last two are total profit.

The benefit for the customer is that my whole office is dedicated to their project for the whole month and their time is not split between other clients. The problem with this is that I'll have to market my business differently from the way I've been marketing it. At this time we get most our customers from forums and blogs.

My site has some pretty good rankings but no were near what I'll need for a project like this one. I've put some thought into what would be the best keywords and search engines to rank on and have come to the conclusion that Google is not going to be the best search engine to rank on. I need traffic that will convert into to sales and I'm thinking that MSN is going to be the place to get that traffic.

I guess my first step is going to be figuring out how to make my site rank on MSN.

I've also been playing with some blogs and they don't seem to rank as easily as I'd hoped so I'll be creating pages for this project.

I've been playing with a new tool (http://www.spyfu.com) that allows me to check out the competitions websites and see how well they rank and I was disappointed in a lot of the so called experts and a lot of the blogs that I checked out.

But I'll be using that tool to decide which keyword is the best one to rank my website homepage for. If anyone is interested in this project then I'm interested in everyones opinion on my website design, best search engines to rank on, how to rank on them, best ways to get traffic, my text (which will be changing as soon as I find my new keyword for the home page and how to rank on MSN) and anything else that might help out.

I'll be posting everything I'm doing here as I do them as well as in my blog.

Guess it's time to go to work.

[janeth]

I used the new tool and checked out my competition to see what keywords they ranked for and how much traffic they were getting a day for those keywords.

The list I want to focus on is below;

Professional Web Design

Web Design Company

Website Designers

Website Development

Internet Web Site Design

Web Site Design

Web Design Firm

Graphic Design

Business Website Design

Web Design

Web Development

Ecommerce Web Design

Web Page Design

For the home page I decided to target 3 different keywords and they are Web Design, Graphic Design and Internet Web Site Design. I normally would not target 3 competitive keywords for one page but I feel I can get ranked for all three and getting links for different anchor text is always a good thing.

The next thing I'll do is look at whose ranking for these keywords and what I need to do to beat them out for these keywords.

[seorocks]

Hi Janeth,

I had a look at the new tool you mentioned. Could you please clarify how reliable is this search engine in terms to comparing your site to your competitors? I would have thought, the best search engine to compare to are: Google, Yahoo and MSN.

thanks,
Clare

[janeth]

The tool seems to be checking the sites and letting you know what keywords they rank for, how many keywords they rank for and how much traffic those keywords bring in per day.

I've played with it a little and it seems to be reliable to me.

If you optimize the site correctly it should rank good in all three of the major search engines. I get a good bit of traffic from all three of the search engines at this time but Yahoo and MSN seem to be used by people that do less searching then Google. Another words you get more traffic from Google but of that traffic less will convert then if the same number came from MSN or Yahoo.

With the new Windows hitting the market, I'm thinking a lot of those will be coming with MSN set has the default search engines. Which would be MSN is about to start sending more traffic then it has in the past.

But I plan on trying to rank my site on all three of the major search engines.

[janeth]

I've come to the conclusion that MSN likes Key Words being used in the title and URL. I've decided to set each keyword on a subdomain name and see if I can get them to rank better that way. Google also sees subdomain names as different website, so the value of the links back and fourth from the sites should carry more weight.

I'm going to write text for all the new subdomain name home pages and try and optimize that text the best I can for each of my new keywords. I'll use them in h1, h2 and h3 tags as well as using them in bold text and in my title and meta tags.

I guess I have a lot of writing to do now.

[EArmand]

I've put some thought into what would be the best keywords and search engines to rank on and have come to the conclusion that Google is not going to be the best search engine to rank on. I need traffic that will convert into to sales and I'm thinking that MSN is going to be the place to get that traffic.


MSN is the least important engine that all of my paying customers want to rank on. Most of them couldn't care much about being at top 5 in MSN because that does not convert into $ like a top 5 position in Google does. Yahoo is somewhere in the middle. You can't go into an online business ignoring Google.

[philscanlan]

Janeth, I was perusing your site a couple of days ago and the designs are great! I don't think you should have any problems getting paid what the quality warrants.

As for SEO, I can't offer much insight... the topic kind of bores me.

Best of luck though... I wish I had your energy.

[janeth]

MSN is the least important engine that all of my paying customers want to rank on.
I'm glad for your paying customers but not sure how them paying you qualifies them as experts?

I've ranked on all three Google, Yahoo and MSN for website design at one time.

I got more traffic from Google but got more customers from MSN and the site ranks better on Google then any other search engine at this time.

And just to make sure we are on the same track I never said I was going to ignore Google or Yahoo and I'm not just going into business I've been making my total living online with no off line help for the last 4 or 5 years.

[janeth]

Janeth, I was perusing your site a couple of days ago and the designs are great! I don't think you should have any problems getting paid what the quality warrants.

Thank you very much.




Best of luck though... I wish I had your energy.

The energy is easy to come by, hire about 20 employees and run up about $8,000.00 a month in expenses with the only way to make money being online. Every time you lay down to go to sleep all you'll be able to do is think about making money. lol

And thats the reason for the business changes, so I don't have to have all the energy. (-;

[janeth]

MSN is the least important engine that all of my paying customers want to rank on. Most of them couldn't care much about being at top 5 in MSN because that does not convert into $ like a top 5 position in Google does.

They would all be wrong according to this (http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=2949)


WebSideStory, Inc. has measured the average sales conversion rates of traffic, both paid and organic, referred from the major seacrh engines during the month of January on Business to Consumer eCommerce sites.

1. AOL Search 6.17 %
2. MSN Search 6.03 %
3. Yahoo 4.07 %
4. Google 3.83%

From experience the stats make total sense as I refer to AOL and MSN as the Bingo Mom search engines. They are very friendly search engines for people who are looking to purchase a product, especially within the United States.

Google is more Poindexter; used for researching a product or browsing various market places and reviews. Someone using Google may be more apt to compare products from six or seven sites before buying when AOL, and MSN are more impulse buy oriented - almost 75% more of the time.

[craigmn3]

Your idea about targeting the keyword phrase "graphic design" seems very broad. To me Graphic design covers a wide range of media from Internet to Print, to signage. If that's what you are looking for great or perhaps you could narrow your term to "web graphic design"

and perhaps with so narrow an audience ($3000.00 per shot) you should consider PPC

[janeth]

Your idea about targeting the keyword phrase "graphic design" seems very broad. To me Graphic design covers a wide range of media from Internet to Print, to signage. If that's what you are looking for great or perhaps you could narrow your term to "web graphic design"

I agree, I'll make that change now, thanks



and perhaps with so narrow an audience ($3000.00 per shot) you should consider PPC

I'm hoping I can make this work without the PPC but if I can't then I'll do some PPC.

[EArmand]

They would all be wrong according to this
WebSideStory, Inc. has measured the average sales conversion rates of traffic, both paid and organic, referred from the major seacrh engines during the month of January on Business to Consumer eCommerce sites.
1. AOL Search 6.17 %
2. MSN Search 6.03 %
3. Yahoo 4.07 %
4. Google 3.83%


Don't believe everything you read...

Our clients spend up to $30,000 a month for our services to get to them to the top of Google.

Maybe they're wrong.... but I'm pretty sure they know where the $$$ is at. Otherwise they wouldn't be spending that much on our services month after month.

As if that's not enough to make you "see the light", I've never had a client of ours say that they need to be at the top of MSN.

Doesn't Google provide over 40% of all Internet searches? What percentage of search results does MSN get? 10 or 20%?

With those numbers, can you really tell me that you rather figure out how to rank well in MSN than in Google?

If you're serious about having an online business, you really need to rank well in all SE, not just MSN and you can definitely not ignore Google.

[janeth]

Don't believe everything you read...

I don't, do you have a website?

[wmrobwl]

Have you thought about using some "offline" methods of generating business? Alot of times people who need sites built (or rebuilt) arent very "nerdy". They don't lurk on forums or in message boards. You should try to focus on particular industries like doctors or lawyers. Try to think of some types of fields where they have alot of money, but very little technical knowledge.

[lolmom]

MSN is the least important engine that all of my paying customers want to rank on.
I'm glad for your paying customers but not sure how them paying you qualifies them as experts?

I've ranked on all three Google, Yahoo and MSN for website design at one time.

I got more traffic from Google but got more customers from MSN and the site ranks better on Google then any other search engine at this time.

And just to make sure we are on the same track I never said I was going to ignore Google or Yahoo and I'm not just going into business I've been making my total living online with no off line help for the last 4 or 5 years.

EArmand:

Not sure if you read this...Janeth is not ignoring any search engine. She just knows her business based on several years of hard work.

[janeth]

Have you thought about using some "offline" methods of generating business? Alot of times people who need sites built (or rebuilt) arent very "nerdy". They don't lurk on forums or in message boards. You should try to focus on particular industries like doctors or lawyers. Try to think of some types of fields where they have alot of money, but very little technical knowledge.

I had thought about lawyers but didn't think about doctors but now I'm thinking about them also.

Doing offline advertising, my problem is that I'm in a third world country. No one here as any money and if I call someone in the U.S and try to pay with a Colombian Visa card they all think I've lost my mind.

[spherica]

The idea behind it is that rather then try and do 100 websites at $550.00 a piece to make $5,500.00 per month

My understanding og math says that your gross revenue per month is $55,000...

Or is the "NEW MATH" my grand kids talk about?

[janeth]

The idea behind it is that rather then try and do 100 websites at $550.00 a piece to make $5,500.00 per month

My understanding og math says that your gross revenue per month is $55,000...

Or is the "NEW MATH" my grand kids talk about?

I wrote that and didn't check the math but I wish that was the correct amount.

[Tom O'Leary]

I've been working with my design company (http://www.geeksonsteroids.com) this week and have come to the conclusion that I want to get rid of some employees and go up on my prices.

Sometimes, I think that going backwards is never a good way to move forward. Have you considered creating additional value in your services so that you can charge more, increase your customer base and simultaneously increase (or at least maintain) your workforce instead of getting rid of them?

At the same time, there is something beautiful about simplifying things, scaling back and ensuring that there is time to live while we're living.

All the best

Tom

[cvos]

you have a lot of good content on your site. I would revidit the design and examine your conversions.

also, creating an alternative to flash is good for us who surf flashless & javascriptless. Less text in one place is often preferrable.

I have never had a client come to me and say: "I really want my site to be as complex as possible. I want users to have to read pages and pages to understand how to buy from me. I hate simple"

[noel_x99]

I had thought about lawyers but didn't think about doctors but now I'm thinking about them also.

I'd suggest you test the waters on this first. Make sure you know something about the industry before you specialize. Lawyers are some of the more "challenging" clients we've had.

[lolmom]

I've come to the conclusion that MSN likes Key Words being used in the title and URL. I've decided to set each keyword on a subdomain name and see if I can get them to rank better that way. Google also sees subdomain names as different website, so the value of the links back and fourth from the sites should carry more weight.

Can you explain what you mean by "subdomain name"? Or give me an example...I'm following this thread and want to make sure I understand.

Thanks!

[Peter (IMC)]

MSN is the least important engine that all of my paying customers want to rank on. Most of them couldn't care much about being at top 5 in MSN because that does not convert into $ like a top 5 position in Google does.

They would all be wrong according to this (http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=2949)


WebSideStory, Inc. has measured the average sales conversion rates of traffic, both paid and organic, referred from the major seacrh engines during the month of January on Business to Consumer eCommerce sites.

1. AOL Search 6.17 %
2. MSN Search 6.03 %
3. Yahoo 4.07 %
4. Google 3.83%

From experience the stats make total sense as I refer to AOL and MSN as the Bingo Mom search engines. They are very friendly search engines for people who are looking to purchase a product, especially within the United States.

Google is more Poindexter; used for researching a product or browsing various market places and reviews. Someone using Google may be more apt to compare products from six or seven sites before buying when AOL, and MSN are more impulse buy oriented - almost 75% more of the time.

These kind of stats are dangerous. They make a point that can seriously hurt a business if they start focusing for example on MSN because it converts better.

The average (optimized) websites gets 6 times the traffic from Google than it gets from MSN. 3.83 % of Google refered visitors is about 3.8 times more sales than 6.03% of MSN visitors.


The idea behind it is that rather then try and do 100 websites at $550.00 a piece to make $5,500.00 per month cut the bills down around $3,000.00 and sale one website at $3,000.00. If we do 3 websites a month we only have to deal with 3 customers and the last two are total profit.
Have you considered that this increases your risks? Being dependent on just 3 deals a month is a lot more risky than depending on 100 deals a month.

As for your marketing strategy,.. you mentioned that


At this time we get most our customers from forums and blogs. Why do these forum and blog visitors turn into customers? Likely because they got something from your presence in forums and blogs that made them decide to go with you. Does just your website have the same power? It would be wise to research this a bit deeper, to find out whether or not your website only can convert enough visitors into customers. Not saying that it can't,.. but an important factor to consider.

As for your keywords,... In my honest opinion, they are way too generic to just focus on those. Keep in mind they are about the lowest converting keywords you can choose. I would focus also on phrases that are more focused on an action, like:

custom web site design
web design company
web site design company
business web site redesign
corporate web site redesign
web site designer
custom web site designer
freelance web designer

And check your keyword stats,.. I am sure you will find a whole list of good keywords in there,. :)

[janeth]

I've been working with my design company (http://www.geeksonsteroids.com) this week and have come to the conclusion that I want to get rid of some employees and go up on my prices.

Sometimes, I think that going backwards is never a good way to move forward. Have you considered creating additional value in your services so that you can charge more, increase your customer base and simultaneously increase (or at least maintain) your workforce instead of getting rid of them?

At the same time, there is something beautiful about simplifying things, scaling back and ensuring that there is time to live while we're living.

All the best

Tom

Hi Tom,

I agree 100% with everything you said but most of all the last part. (-;

[janeth]

These kind of stats are dangerous. They make a point that can seriously hurt a business if they start focusing for example on MSN because it converts better.

The average (optimized) websites gets 6 times the traffic from Google than it gets from MSN. 3.83 % of Google refered visitors is about 3.8 times more sales than 6.03% of MSN visitors.


I'm not leaving Google out but want to see what it takes to get ranked on MSN, it should be easy enough to rank on Google.



Have you considered that this increases your risks? Being dependent on just 3 deals a month is a lot more risky than depending on 100 deals a month.

Yes, I've thought about it a lot and I'm think of creating a couple sites to make an income from other sources then the web design.




Does just your website have the same power?

You would be the better one to answer that. (-:

I think so because we do get work that comes from the search engines.



As for your keywords,... In my honest opinion, they are way too generic to just focus on those.

The thought was to break them down under each domian name. To start with generic and then break them down if that makes sense.




custom web site design
web design company
web site design company
business web site redesign
corporate web site redesign
web site designer
custom web site designer
freelance web designer


We already rank for a lot of those and they have been converting ok but very little traffic.

Let me see if I can better explain, I'll set the domain name up like web design and optimize that for the word web design then I'll add pages using a list like the one below and make pages for the new words. Like custom web design, affordable web design and on and on for each of the keywords.

Each page will be set up to close the sell. Another words I will try and take them from the page they land on to the contact us page and no where else.

accurate

acquire

advantage, advantages

advice

advise

advisor

affordable

assistance

assortment

attractive

basics

better

brand-new

comfortable

common

compare

comparison

complete

consult

consultant

conventional

correct

custom

customer service

demonstrate

detailed


easy

economical

efficient

effortless

enhanced

exact

excellent

experience

experience, experiences

expert

expertise

explain

extensive

fast

final price

fitted

flawless

functions

general

good

grand

handy

help

idea, ideas

ideal

immaculate

impeccable

important

impressive

improve

improvement

info

information

installation

interesting

knowledge

luxurious

luxury

maintained

market leader

method, methods

meticulous

new

official

on-time

operating

opportunities

optimization

perfect

popular

precise

professional

quality

recognized

recommend, recommended

recommendation, recommendations

reduced

reduction

regular

relaxing

reliable

repair, repairs

replace

review

rewarding

secret

service

service, services

simple

simplify

sophisticated

special

special offer, special offers

specialist

specialized market

standard

technique, techniques

tested

tip, tips

traditional

uncomplicated

unique

usual

[janeth]

you have a lot of good content on your site. I would revidit the design and examine your conversions.

I need to redo all the pages that are there so they are set up to close the sell and not just give information.



also, creating an alternative to flash is good for us who surf flashless & javascriptless. Less text in one place is often preferrable.

I will get that done first thing on Monday. Thanks

[janeth]

I had thought about lawyers but didn't think about doctors but now I'm thinking about them also.

I'd suggest you test the waters on this first. Make sure you know something about the industry before you specialize. Lawyers are some of the more "challenging" clients we've had.

I was thinking of just targeting one page for attorneys under each subdomain name. So the actual work I would get from them would be a small percent if any.

But if they are to hard to deal with then I want deal with them. I hate problems.

[janeth]

Can you explain what you mean by "subdomain name"? Or give me an example...I'm following this thread and want to make sure I understand.

Thanks!

It would be like design.geeksonsteroids.com instead of www.geeksonsteroids.com. Google see's it has a different website from your website.

[brian.mark]

Janeth,

Have any of the people I've been referring panned out?

As for raising your rates... Please, no!!! I don't want to pay more.

Ok, on a more serious note, I think you were saying 10 sites at $550 each and you'd rather go to 3 sites at $3000 each. That's similar to what we did with parts this year... taking our average $/order up and reducing the number of orders. It was the only way we could stay in business. We just couldn't keep up with the demand otherwise, and our bottom line is thanking us. Payroll was getting out of control.

But be prepared for the unexpected. One of the SEO firms I consult through recently raised his rates from $150/hour to $350/hour and business really picked up ever since. Sometimes you may find that you were too affordable to be credible and increasing prices actually results in more business.

Brian.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

In all honesty, maybe we live in different economies.

Cut rate over here is $50/hr(bottom)-$75/hr for someone that can demonstrate effective marketing MIN - With low overhead, working from home!. Even at those rates, that allows no growth and only occasional equipment and software renewal and purchases only, anywhere!

This is an expensive business as you well know.

What does 4 or 5 hours buy in this game?

Essentially.. Your marketing prowess is where you value it based on proven realities.

We have never considered doing a $550 "Electronic Calling Card" Site and most assuredly, never will.

Janeth, Janeth, Janeth! - This is a more complex business than anything I experienced as an Oil Industry Mechanical Engineer, designing nuclear tools.

Scoff and laugh if you want, but I played there for some time (25 years), and I have also played here for 10 years now.

Let's just tear this one up! - I left Engineering for Marketing over 10 years ago, and I have been in this game almost ever since... Let's just get right to the meat here!

I'll tell you what Janeth.. If you can show me 3 $550 clients that make a mark anywhere (something real now!), I'll show you 3 month old more serious client stats on a 30-45 degree slope in all areas busting out from nothing in 2-3 months doing as much as 80Meg a day in downloads right now selling out, with a real hot "branding iron".

I do not like anyone here thinking that reality is just a $550 tinkering bell in the wind, game now. I just can't imagine any space left on the Net to place a meaningful stake with that "pocket change".

To present different, is extremely misleading - IMO!

I think Brian hit it right smack on the head here:


"Sometimes you may find that you were too affordable to be credible and increasing prices actually results in more business."

But you have to be able to back it up in references and stats.

Ken

[Mamoon Rashid]

hi..nice portfolio...seems more like templates but nice...and one of the template shown ..when i went to its original site...the design was different but anyways.. you have got 6/10 google ranking and that is commendable.

Also under your web design topics the links go to your sub domain websites and when you click on them there is nothing there except one cgi bin folder so I guess you did that for the SEO/M ? I am not sure by doing this you are misusing it or not but then again I am noone to decide that.

One more thing...the website you have given in your portfolio when i go to them typing the name of the website ..most of the websites are not even there and those which are there have different website design on them as compared to the template you have shown on your portfolio ..so I dont know whats the deal here.

Over all, I am impressed by your website it is full of content and if I were a client I would go for you mostly cuz you have given your picture on the front page and its a nice one with a charming smile..so : )

I do have lot of sites on my website (http://www.hashe.com) but web design is no longer my main area of business now..as now I am more into web based applications. why ? cuz they offer more money and then continued clientale as they need to be maintained.

Anyways.. you are my competitor in a way but a competitor with a smile like yours...lol.. I would love to have :)

Good Luck you. :)

Cheers!!

[janeth]

Janeth,

Have any of the people I've been referring panned out?

As for raising your rates... Please, no!!! I don't want to pay more.

Hi Brian,

I would never charge you more, you're to easy to work with. As far as people you've sent my way I'm not sure because of the number of people we are dealing with it's been tough keeping up.



Ok, on a more serious note, I think you were saying 10 sites at $550 each and you'd rather go to 3 sites at $3000 each. That's similar to what we did with parts this year... taking our average $/order up and reducing the number of orders. It was the only way we could stay in business. We just couldn't keep up with the demand otherwise, and our bottom line is thanking us. Payroll was getting out of control.

And thats the same problem I'm having.



But be prepared for the unexpected. One of the SEO firms I consult through recently raised his rates from $150/hour to $350/hour and business really picked up ever since. Sometimes you may find that you were too affordable to be credible and increasing prices actually results in more business.

Brian.

I agree 100% and have noticed we seem to be doing better since the increase.

[janeth]

when i went to its original site...the design was different but anyways.. you have got 6/10 google ranking and that is commendable.

A lot of times the customers want to change things on the design and we put the site there to show them. So they tend to change a lot from where we start and it's a fight to get the guys to update the site.

Maybe that will change when I fire half of them.



Also under your web design topics the links go to your sub domain websites and when you click on them there is nothing there except one cgi bin folder so I guess you did that for the SEO/M ? I am not sure by doing this you are misusing it or not but then again I am noone to decide that.

Thats the section I'm working on now and hope to have it fixed today.



One more thing...the website you have given in your portfolio when i go to them typing the name of the website ..most of the websites are not even there and those which are there have different website design on them as compared to the template you have shown on your portfolio ..so I dont know whats the deal here.

A lot of them are still being worked on. We stick them there while we are working on the sites. If you check back next week you'll see different sites and the current sites should be online.



Over all, I am impressed by your website it is full of content and if I were a client I would go for you mostly cuz you have given your picture on the front page and its a nice one with a charming smile..so : )

I wish a smile is all it took. (:

[Peter (IMC)]

Scaling down to give your self more free time,... :) I thought about that and I have a similar problem, I would also like to have more free time,.. :)

Changing things to have more free time can be done in 2 ways. For us, scaling down isn't an option, we´re doing everything we can to take the next step forward. That requires to delegate responsibilities to your employees. Hiring people to manage parts of your business so you don't have to worry about all the details anymore. Have you considered taking this step as well?

[janeth]

Scaling down to give your self more free time,... :) I thought about that and I have a similar problem, I would also like to have more free time,.. :)

Changing things to have more free time can be done in 2 ways. For us, scaling down isn't an option, we´re doing everything we can to take the next step forward. That requires to delegate responsibilities to your employees. Hiring people to manage parts of your business so you don't have to worry about all the details anymore. Have you considered taking this step as well?

Hi Peter have you ever visited Colombia?

This is a very laid back country, you can drive down the road and have to sit in traffic because someone saw a friend walking down the side walk and decided to stop and talk with them. It's hard enough finding people that not get distracted on their way to work and not show up.

Most the people in this country work as little as possible, neither of my brothers or my sister have cable T.V because it would require them to work harder to have to pay for it.

I've tried finding the right person to come in and help me run this business for the last two years and have now decided to go the other way.

[greeneagle]

Janeth:


"The topic is about improving a site and making a site rank on the search engines in a couple days.”

That’s the bhartzer thread over here Janeth:
http://webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=69201

Ken

[janeth]

Janeth:


"The topic is about improving a site and making a site rank on the search engines in a couple days.”

That’s the bhartzer thread over here Janeth:
http://webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=69201

Ken

It's this thread Ken, that thread does not hold water I already tested it and have continued testing it.

What he is talking about does not work.

[greeneagle]

Take it up with him Janeth.

Bill stands securely on his own 4 feet.

I have seen his Sites and his play over there and have no doubt whatsoever about what he is trying to convey.

Not everything needs to be played out in useless tests here or anywhere else. It's a waste of time. If you want to ride tall in the saddle that "Ken doesn't believe in testing"... let me help you just before we get back on topic here.

You are absolutely right Janeth, Ken absolutely does not believe in running useless tests in forums that abjectly mean nothing... and yes I would like to see that mentality desist to some extent.

And yes get your "jolley's" quoting me on that while you are at it.

That was just a little gift for you to play with while we get back on track here:

Web Development Company Marketing Strategies!

Ken

[janeth]

Thats great Ken, we can test his sites with our new little tool also.

His rankings should blow us all away.

[janeth]

I'll tell you what Ken,

If you stop taking the thread off topic you might learn something.

[greeneagle]

What is your thread about here, Janeth?

Ken

[janeth]

One last time Janeth:

What is your thread about here?

Ken

It's about taking a website and getting it to rank in the search engines in a week's time.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

I am not sure how we went to bhartzers thread from whether you should entertain $550 sites or not, and whether you should change your marketing model to more expensive Sites and clients that have the amplitude to play hard in this thread, but if you insist on playing over there, I am going to reference you to that thread again:

http://webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=69201

Ken

[countryjoe]

Hey, why don't you two stop bickering, sounds like your married to each other

[janeth]

I'll tell you what Ken, go ahead and lock this thread down or stay out of all together but I'm not going to post in it as long as you are, so if anyone wants to know the results of the test or help me out with the site you can email me.

janeth@geeksonsteroids.com

My plan is to take my website and set it up to rank for several 100 keywords in less than a week's time.

As well as improving the site so that it converts that traffic into to dollars.

If I see Ken is no longer posting in the thread or if he can stay on topic, I'll be back, otherwise just email me.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

Maybe you could be so kind as to explain to everyone what "SpyFu" is and how it works, and while you are at it, tell us which of the keyphrases you mentioned that you don't already rank in the top 100 for.

If we are just having a language barrier issue here, let's get past it.

Personally, I still can't tell what you are trying to say or do here.

Ken

[janeth]

Janeth,

Maybe you could be so kind as to explain to everyone what "SpyFu" is and how it works, and while you are at it, tell us which of the keyphrases you mentioned that you don't already rank in the top 100 for.

If we are just having a language barrier issue here, let's get past it.

Ken

Ok Ken I can do that.

"SpyFu" is a tool that allows you to find out what keywords your competition ranks for and how much traffic they get from those keywords.

My site does rank for a lot of different keywords but I'm talking about getting it to rank for a lot more keywords and once the site is set up being able to do it on 7 days, but I have to get the site set up first and I'm working on the now.

[greeneagle]

Why is a virtually unknown, unranked tool better or even the "choice" here against the gazillion others out there that seem to do the same thing? How did you pick it and why?

If this is going to be a controlled test can we go ahead and bank on the phrases you already put forth and check their current rank, and in what SE? and over what time? How are we going to be assured that no other tools are being used?

Ken

[greeneagle]

I am totally lost here. Any marketer can spin a good prweb press release about anything and smack down in all SEs within a very short time, with RSS feeds and podcast interviews and much more for $200, right now.

What real merrit do you see in this tool and how are you going to use it advantageously over the miriad of "Digital Doors" that are already at our beconing call?

That's a serious question, that should be on everyone's mind here following this thread.

Ken

[UCSI]

Hi everyone - Janeth..I was going to jump into this discussion, but on page 2 (and mostly after page 3) I wasn't so sure anymore if I wanted to participate...maybe we should start over???

I generally 'lurk' and don't write much, but this one hit home. I have been online (only) for 10 years now and started out just like you, with 'cheap' sites and some of my sites are still cheap. It all depends on the client - however, we are trying to get away from that and get the clientele to change to more high dollar accounts.

That said - we have been pretty successful in doing that, especialy since we upped' our rates, but it's still hard to get those new clients...

I am running into the same issues here - our traffic is pretty good, and while I don't get bucket loads, I get very targeted traffic (seo arizona, search enigne optimization phoenix, miva search enigne optimization, miva marketing and seo) - I found that most of our clients pick up the phone rather than filling out the contact form.

I have also found that it is hard to 'convert' the site visitors - I have visitors that come in with 'miva marketing strategies', look at 30+ content pages and don't contact us...Maybe our site just sucks?

I think it's not so much which SE they come from, but to generate targeted traffic (maybe less traffic, but ready to buy) traffic - and then have an enticing call to action. Evidently my problem is the call to action?? Maybe that's yours, or maybe your probelm is the traffic isn't targeted enough?

What are your bounce rates? do ppl stay on your site? do they inquire? I like your site - I love your designs..

Have you tested just addign addidtional content pages geared to 2-3 key phrasesa nd with a particular SE i n mind rather than going to a sub domain?

Any input on what worked for you is appreciated:)
Best - Sabine

[janeth]

Hi Sabine,

I'm trying to stay out of this thread since Ken joined in it but since you asked me the question I'll answer it the best I can.

I've never tried to sell the sites for more money until this week and so far the response has been good. I did loose one customer even at the $2,500.00 price due to the price being to low.

The reason I decided to go with the subdomian names instead of just adding the pages to the site is that

1. MSN seems to like the keywords in the url, the subdomain lets me put it in there for the site and the page.

2. Yahoo seems to like sites all on one topic, the subdomain name allows be to keep the whole site geared towards one topic.

3. Google sees them as a different site, My thinking on this is that

A. If Google only indexes the main page at lest I got one page in and got it linked back to my home page.

B. If in the future my main site got banned or started having ranking problems I would still have the subdomains doing good. (Not that there is a reason to ban my site)


I'll be making some changes to the site this coming week but for the most part the site converts well, we normally get a response out of 5% of our traffic and sale 3% of those.

If I can get the sells, traffic and conversion up we should be doing good. (-:

[EArmand]

I don't, do you have a website?


We spoke by email a few weeks back, you should already have all of my contact info. If you need it again, send PM.

[janeth]

I don't, do you have a website?


We spoke by email a few weeks back, you should already have all of my contact info. If you need it again, send PM.

I sent you a PM, I don't remember our talk but then I talk to a lot of people every day.

[UCSI]

so in your opinion - is it worth to create a 'micro' site, say strictly about web design for Yahoo and then cross link with your main site? Most of our traffic comes from Google, then MSN and then Yahoo - wouldn't mind doing better in Yahoo

I also noticed something strange in Google - we have a PR 5 - but now it's 0, depending on which day and which datacenter of Google you get - yesterday we were a 5 - today we are 0 - this has been going on for about 4 weeks now - we used to be a consistent 5 for a couple of years - not sure what's going on - all pages are indexed and keyword rankings have actually gone up for most of our phrases...not that PR matters - but since we offer SEO, having a PR of 0 doesn't look good...

[janeth]

so in your opinion - is it worth to create a 'micro' site, say strictly about web design for Yahoo and then cross link with your main site? Most of our traffic comes from Google, then MSN and then Yahoo - wouldn't mind doing better in Yahoo

I'm the same way, we get most our traffic from Google then MSN and last is Yahoo.

I'm cross linking these sites but once I get finished I'll be building some more sites that want be linked together. I think it's best not to link them but I'm trying to get these pages to rank fast to try and get some traffic from them.



I also noticed something strange in Google - we have a PR 5 - but now it's 0, depending on which day and which datacenter of Google you get - yesterday we were a 5 - today we are 0 - this has been going on for about 4 weeks now - we used to be a consistent 5 for a couple of years - not sure what's going on - all pages are indexed and keyword rankings have actually gone up for most of our phrases...not that PR matters - but since we offer SEO, having a PR of 0 doesn't look good...

A pr0 does look bad but the most important thing is the ranking. They are most likely just playing with some stuff.

[searcydigest]

I know that a site has a lot to do with the right key words, and I don't think I have the right keywords. I KNOW my site has alot of potential. I know it is not optimized. But I am still basically new to this and do not have all the knowledge that I need. But I am reading when I can and trying to figure out what I need. I would be greatful if any one can give me a boost on what I need to do to better my website. In the analyzing tools. My site is ok on some parts and not on others. I've read where link exchange are not a good idea, but with me doing a link exchange has increased my pr up to 3 in google. Not sure it that means anything or not. I also think I have to many pictures. I have seen sites with lots of pictures, and they are optimized. I can't name one at this time,
but anyways, any ideas on how I can get my site better and still like about like it does now,
would be great. I am quite proud of this template. I have been working on it to be fit for my site. My intentions for my website it to sell new and used things. Basically Like a Yard Sale.
But it might be better if I went with a yard sale theme, but I do not know where to find stuff like that at. What do you all suggest?
Be gentle with me. LOL. Thanks in advance if you can help out.
My Yard Sale site (http://www.searcydigest.com)

Also I am trying to work with Work At home moms too and support them if i can.

[janeth]

Hi searcydigest

When I click on the blog link it takes me to another website. Is that your website?

[searcydigest]

You clicked the link where it says my yard sale site correct? IF so then yes that is my website.

[janeth]

My Yard Sale site (http://www.searcydigest.com)

Also I am trying to work with Work At home moms too and support them if i can.

If it was me I would get rid of the banners at the bottom of the page and the hit counter a long with the background your using. Move the top banner some where else and right some good content about what you can do for me.

Right a really nice header and place your Google ads under that header.

Put some contact information on the site.

You need to figure out which keywords you want to rank the home page for.

yard sale
longest yard sale
yard sale pricing
yard sale tips
yard sale prices
yard sale signs
yard sale
yard sale sign
endless yard sale
yard sale ideas
yard sale items
va yard sale
successful yard sale
yard sale virginia
garage yard sale
yard sale ad
furniture yard sale
highway yard sale
great yard sale

If you want more information then contact me because I don't want to get the thread to off topic. (-;

[Webnauts]

Janeth, some tips for MSN, if I got your question right in your first post.

1. With don't use your keywords more than 1 time in the description tag.

2. Try for an overall keyword wt. of the visible body text of less than 6%.

3. Don't use irrelevant META tags.

4. Absence of keywords in the domain name

Your domain name doesn't contain your keyword phrase. Or, it contains your keyword phrase, but the keywords aren't separated by hyphens or underscores.

To make sure that the engines recognize the keyword phrase, try to purchase domain names that separate each keyword with a hyphen (preferable) or an underscore. Most of the engines place added relevancy on keywords found in the domain name.

If you've used your keyword phrase in your domain name but have not used hyphens or underscores between the individual words and you've gotten this message, just ignore it.

5. Consider naming this page after your keyword phrase.

Most of the engines place added relevancy on keywords found in the name of the page, or the URL. When naming your pages, try to name your pages after your keyword phrases.

6. Add your keyword phrase to a style tag.

7. Consider naming your graphics with your keyword phrase and gaining a boost in relevancy that way.

8. MSN gives ranking honors to sites with an abundance of incoming links. And the good news is that MSN is counting a greater number of your incoming links toward ranking with the nit picking that Google and Yahoo! do. And that if those links have your keywords in them as anchor text, they help ranking for those keywords. You want to make sure that the page of the Website linking to you is in the MSN index and that it has a strong number of incoming to that domain as well as having less than 80 links on the page linking to you.

9. One Topic per page is recommended.

MSN Quote "The best way to attract people to your site, and keep them coming back, is to design your pages with valuable content that your target audience is interested in...

In the visible page text, include words users might choose as search query terms to find the information on your site...

Limit all pages to a reasonable size. We recommend one topic per page.

An HTML page with no pictures should be under 150 KB," but lets not forget Google that would appreciate under 100kb

It's important that the sites linking to you are in the same Topic or "theme" area as your site. It doesn't have to be a product or service that is exactly the same as yours, a competitor.

For example if you sell web design, you can have anything related to web design services or serves other than actual web design. Of you can have news articles about web design that link to you.

If you are a Realtor you can have Realtors from other parts of the country linking to you, professional web design news sites, web developers, anything related to web design and development or to your region of the country if you are using keywords like "columbia web design".

10. Your linking strategy within your pages and your code can affect indexing and ranking.

MSN quote: "Use only well-formed HTML code in your pages. Ensure that all tags are closed, and that all links function properly.

If your site contains broken links, MSNBot may not be able to index your site effectively, and people may not be able to reach all of your pages....

Links embedded in menus, list boxes, and similar elements are not accessible to web crawlers unless they appear in your site map.

Keep the text that you want indexed outside of images. For example, if you want your company name or address to be indexed, make sure it is displayed on your page outside of a company logo."

"MSNBot is the MSN Search web crawler that automatically crawls the Web to add information to our search index. MSNBot crawls the web by looking for links within websites.

So one of the best ways to ensure that MSNBot can find your website is to include valuable content that other sites will want to link to. While MSNBot crawls billions of web pages, not every page that we crawl is indexed.

For a site to be indexed, it must meet specific standards for content, design, and technical implementation.

For example, if your site’s link structure does not provide links to each page on your site, MSNBot may not be able to find all of your site’s pages.

Make sure that your site adheres to our design guidelines, which will help you place important content in searchable elements of the page.

Also ensure that your site does not violate any of the technical guidelines that can prevent appropriate ranking."

11. Meta Tag Description is important to MSN.

MSN recommends the following: "As the MSN Search web crawler MSNBot crawls your site, it analyzes the content on indexed pages and generates keywords to associate with each page.

Then MSNBot extracts page content that is highly relevant to the keywords (often sentence segments that contain keywords or information in the description) meta tag to construct the site description displayed in search results. The page title and URL are also extracted and displayed in search results... (About updating your site description)

Site descriptions are extracted from the content of your page each time MSNBot crawls your site and indexes its pages. If you change the contents of a page, you may see a change in the description the next time our index is updated.

Since the descriptions are extracted from your indexed web pages, the best way to affect your site description is to ensure that your web pages effectively deliver the information you want to see in search results.

Excellent content design and effective use of terms that target your message are the best ways to affect the site description that MSNBot extracts from your site. Effective strategies include:

* Placing descriptive content near the top of each page.
* Making sure each page has a clear topic and purpose.
* Add a site description into the description meta tag, as shown here:"META HTTP-EQUIV="Description" NAME="Description" CONTENT="Describe your site here" "

Think about clickthroughs.

12. Freshness is important at MSN.

13. Nofollow tag.

MSN, cooperating with Google and Yahoo! supports the nofollow tag. It was originally implemented so blogs aren't used for spamming by having links in their comments section.

However, there are other uses to help your optimization. For one, you can focus your PageRank on particular pages within your site so you don't waste PageRank on pages that aren't important for ranking. Add the tag to all the links that point to pages that are not important for ranking and traffic generation.

Another use is to keep a link from going out to another site and giving away PageRank to other sites, or referring to a site that you don't necessarily need to be helping with their popularity.

Don't use this with your reciprocal linking partners and make sure your partners aren't sneaking it into their links that go to you.

14. Use an xml site map as we do already for Google and Yahoo. More: http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_REF_RestrictAcce ssToSite.htm

15. MSN gives Site Owners suggestions for optimization
http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_REF_Guidelinesfo rOptimizingSite.htm gives all the relevant information for optimizing a site and getting it indexed with MSN.

I hope all above can help.

[janeth]

Thanks Webnauts, I had stopped updating this thread but the post helps out a lot.

I guess I'll need to make some changes to what I've done so far now. (:

[Webnauts]

Janeth if the site is online, be kind and let me know which one (url), so I can have a closer look if you want.

[janeth]

Janeth if the site is online, be kind and let me know which one (url), so I can have a closer look if you want.

I'm using www.geeksonsteroids.com but setting up subdomain names. I'm going back now now to set them up different but still need to write all the text for the different pages.

Each subdomain name will have around 2,000 pages.

[Chris]

ken, PM me.

[Steven1976a]

I agree with an earlier posting that your search terms are very broad and you are going up against people from all around the world with your targeted words.
I would imagine most of your target market are local to you and therefore why dont you narrow down your search terms by including your local country or City

for example

Web Design Brazil

[janeth]

We do most of our work in the US and none in Colombia.

The keywords are broad but are broken down from there.

I'll show you what I'm talking about as soon as I get one of the subdomain names finished.

I'm working on this in my spare time so it's taking a little longer then I had hopped.

[briguy]

Janeth:


"The topic is about improving a site and making a site rank on the search engines in a couple days.”

That’s the bhartzer thread over here Janeth:
http://webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=69201

Ken
When that thread first came out I was interested in it till page 5 or 6 (now there over 15)..personally. I was reading that thread, (like I am reading this thread) to learn and learn...but that thread http://webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=69201 lost my attention cause of the fighting about the author not posting the URL Anyway, I am interested in this posting and want to learn.....so please "the eagle from colorado don't swoop down and crap on this post"

[Zhannalight]

Hey Janeth, I came across this thread back in Nov 2006 but I happened to return to it today.

My note is about your link structure. I've noticed you are actively using site-wide backlinks (probably purchased links) which are not very much related to your site topic.
For example, you have a backlink from http://www.rlrouse.com/stop-barking.html (the article reads How To Stop Your Dog From Barking).

IMHO you'd better acquire more links from the sites on related topic. I am sure you could write and post good web design-related articles/tutorials/reviews on submit-an-article websites and place links to www.geeksonsteroids.com in bylines, free of charge.

[Zhannalight]

One more thing; sorry if this is off-topic...
Why do you use the word CONVERTION on your homapage banner? It is supposed to be conversion

[janeth]

Hey Janeth, I came across this thread back in Nov 2006 but I happened to return to it today.

My note is about your link structure. I've noticed you are actively using site-wide backlinks (probably purchased links)

I have never bought a link in my life and I have links coming from all over the place. If someone wants to give me a site-wide link then I'm more than happy to accept it.


which are not very much related to your site topic.

I get around 10 visitors per day from that site and have sold some web designs from those links. I don't care what the topic of the other site is as long as I get traffic that converts into customers.



For example, you have a backlink from http://www.rlrouse.com/stop-barking.html (the article reads How To Stop Your Dog From Barking).

I wonder if that article will work on people (:



IMHO you'd better acquire more links from the sites on related topic. I am sure you could write and post good web design-related articles/tutorials/reviews on submit-an-article websites and place links to www.geeksonsteroids.com in bylines, free of charge.

I'm making money from the free links coming from rlrouse's site as well as have many articles written that are on other people's sites that link back to my site.

Why would I only want links from sites with a realted topic?

[janeth]

One more thing; sorry if this is off-topic...
Why do you use the word CONVERTION on your homapage banner? It is supposed to be conversion

Maybe someone spelled it wrong.

[Zhannalight]

I have never bought a link in my life and I have links coming from all over the place.

Sorry that was just an assumption. I didn't mean anything bad here :-)


I don't care what the topic of the other site is as long as I get traffic that converts into customers.

That's fine from the visitor traffic perspective - it doesn't really matter what brings you traffic since the traffic converts into buying customers.

As for the SEO perspective, search engines tend to put more weight to the topic-related links.

[janeth]

I don't care what the topic of the other site is as long as I get traffic that converts into customers.

That's fine from the visitor traffic perspective - it doesn't really matter what brings you traffic since the traffic converts into buying customers.

The visitor is the only one I care about (-;



As for the SEO perspective, search engines tend to put more weight to the topic-related links.

Do you have any proof?

[Zhannalight]

The visitor is the only one I care about (-;

That's a very good approach and I believe your visitors will always enjoy browsing your site :-)

However you started the topic with the following:
...My site has some pretty good rankings but no were near what I'll need for a project like this one...

I thought you might want some guidance on increasing your rankings for some competitive keywords.




As for the SEO perspective, search engines tend to put more weight to the topic-related links.

Do you have any proof?

Noone except SE insiders can give you a 100% proof or guarantee on what works best for increasing your rankings. I just speak for the accumulated knowledge/experience of the SEOs, including those who hang out on this forum pretty often ;-)

The truth is that some backlinks are disregarded by the search engines, and some links are regarded as "authority links". The things like that are stated in Google webmaster guidelines. The first guideline reads as follows:

Have other relevant sites link to yours.

I do remember you wanted advice on optimizing for MSN, however Google is still a better traffic-producer :-)

[janeth]

Noone except SE insiders can give you a 100% proof or guarantee on what works best for increasing your rankings. I just speak for the accumulated knowledge/experience of the SEOs, including those who hang out on this forum pretty often ;-)

I don't take anything said to be a fact until I've tested it, I've found many SEOs are incorrect in a lot of stuff that is posted on this forum and many others.

I've not seen any change in a lot of rankings for sites that have been ranked with off topic links and I have also seen a lot of sites ranked for keywords using off topic links.

I myself do not do link exchanges and use the social networking sites to get my links.

[jackwu]

could you tell me How to turn traffic into to sales ?mysite : http://www.photo2all.com
email: jackwu2007@gmail.com
thanks in advance.