Is moving from .com to .co.uk safe on existing ranks?

[colr]

We have a client with a Glasgow accommodation website, whose website is hosted on a .com domain. The site has enjoyed a selection of #1's and #2's in Google for their keywords.

Until about December 2005 the site was also listed in MSN.co.uk, but after that time they seem to be non-existent on msn.co.uk, but with excellent .com results. I have also seen something similar with other clients with .com sites, so I've reached the conclusion that msn is preferring .co.uk sites in its uk index (which makes sense, although their assumptions are wrong).

As such, I'm about to suggest that the business move their site's primary hosting to the .co.uk version. I’m confident this will help the msn listing, and since the business is UK based, I think it will help all round.

The concern I have is that if I do this, will I be risking the current good results they enjoy? Currently the .co.uk is setup to forward requests to the .com and I intend just to reverse this process. Is this type of redirect going to maintain the IBL and ranks they currently have? Its just domain forwarding as setup through the UK Reg registrar.

[incrediblehelp]

I hardly ever recommend changing domains, but if you are located in the Uk and only are concerned with Uk traffic and customers, making the switch probably makes sense.

It might be worth it to bite the bullet and make the switch now instead of delaying it. Of course doing a 301 redirect from the .com to the co.uk is necessary. However I have seen successfully ranking .com websites in the Uk SE's as long as they were hosted in the Uk as well.

I usually recommend that you do at least one of these 2 things to achieve results in the Uk SE's.

The problem with switching you will lose those previous results and have to work hard to get them back. You do this by contacting previous IBLs and letting them know your website has changed. getting mnay new links from Uk websites as well.

[Tipster]

Its just domain forwarding as setup through the UK Reg registrar.as far as I remember the UK reg forwarder is just a framed forwarder, IMO you should keep the .com as it is and setup the .co.uk forwarder with your hosting company as a mapped domain

I had a similar issue and the problem was the uk reg forwarder, once setting the mapped domain up we started to see both sites get listings (.com / .co.uk)

One problem that may arise (others may be able to verify) is that certain pages may get dumped for duplicate content although i'm not sure if this is the case for the same domain on different extensions

hope that helps you in some way :)

[incrediblehelp]

I don't think you should forward it if you can help it. If you have the domain take the time to build out the separate website.

[edhan]

I don't think you should forward it if you can help it. If you have the domain take the time to build out the separate website.

Yes. I do agree with incrediblehelp that you should build out another site instead. You can start informing all visitors and those IBLs of the new site. That way, if you should decide to terminate the previous site (after gaining your ranking), you will have a choice.

[SemAdvance]

I have taken two UK based clients from .com to .co.uk and both saw almost immediate spikes in sales.

As I am sure you are aware the British are fiercely loyal and as such they're more apt to make a purchase if they know the website is more localized.

Also depending on the search term Googles localized search engines favor local based and hosted sites, then regional, then national, and lastly worldwide.

I think for the sales pick up alone moving to .co.uk is a very smart move.

Ohhh and you can easily forward all links via 301 redirect. Therefore there is no need to contact anyone about the links pointing to your site.

Your also not likely to lose much in SERPs as moving from .com to .co.uk usually equates to less competiting pages....

[jimkelly7777]

Well now, Colin, this is a great question, although I'm not sure what it is exactly.

There you have it but it brings up a bugaboo that's been in our minds since the beginning of www.tourclare.com. We started in Ireland and could have been an .ie but opted for the more common .com.

To this day I'm not sure if we made the correct decision or not. Most of our visitors come from the UK and Ireland.

It really would be nice if Google would let us know how they feel on this issue but I suspect they are feeling quite paranoid with their success and all so it probably won't happen.

This reminds me of the old joke, "I know I'm paranoid but I'm not sure if I'm paranoid enough."

Anyway, back to the wall. My call is do what you think is right. You seem like a good lad so I'm sure all your friends will support you.

In the end, it's relationships that make us what we are... even in this crazy place we inhabit.

[jaldridge]

Wwe had a similar problem and all we did was change the hosting to a UK host (by the way, don't make the mistake that we made with 1and1.co.uk....their servers are in Germany!).

Just changing the hosting to UK had the desired effect and the resulting UK traffic.

I would avoid changing domains if you can.

[colr]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate your thoughts on this.

[danners02]

Keeping a .com is fine - i believe a country specific domain will give you a *little* help in searches restricted to that country.

For my main keyword the 2 top spots (1 is mine) are .coms for UK only results - both have UK in the title tag and page content and mine is hosted in UK.

I do believe having the UK in the title will help greatly for SERPs and click thrus if you have a .com

If Google dropped my index page i would 301 to a new .co.uk domain very quickly though! Cant see this happening - .com was originally a suffix for "company" and not restricted to the US.

[seiretto]

More important than "uk" in the title or content is to be hosted properly in the UK for your .com domain to show in uk search results.

Read more here:
http://uk-web-hosting-why.blogspot.com/2006/10/is-your-website-not-listed-in-google.html

[dburdon]

This is a growing problem as it appears that the Google.co.uk results are becoming more sensitive. I manage several dot.com's - all hosted in the UK - where the results have become increasingly volatile.

[seiretto]

This is a growing problem as it appears that the Google.co.uk results are becoming more sensitive. I manage several dot.com's - all hosted in the UK - where the results have become increasingly volatile.
We have foud that with some .com domains this is true, but more often the ones that are dropping are those that have been heavily optimised, those with almost no optimising are fairing better, retaining their position or climbing...

[PumaSpirit]

In my humble opinion.... Why mess with something that is not broken? If I were in the same position I'd keep my .com because it has achieved it's objective, high ranking.

I'd also check to see the cost involved in changing everything around and starting all over again to achieve that. Would it be worth it?

Again, this is not based on fact, just my humble opinion.

Our site (.com US based) just started selling its product to selected countries overseas and already had one order from the UK. We are not actively marketing and optimizing for this. All we are looking for is extra sales, not main sales from one specific country such as the UK.

Your case seems different and again, I would ask myself if the cost of making a switch would be worth it financially.

Someimes I think, rolling the dice in Las Vegas may be more productive than dealing with Search Engines, lol.

[SEO Recruit]

IMHO

Google.co.uk is just a front end of the main Google index, with a filter button so when a user selects to have UK-only pages shown, Google removes all the listings for companies that are not known to Google to be UK -based.

The pages that are left either have a .co.uk domain, or are .com domains hosted on an IP address that is registered to UK use.

The question is what % of users use the Filter button or local search Feature, me thinks a large %.

SEO Recruit

[Webnauts]

I hope I am not going off topic here.

I would like to ask here how many use on their site instead of <html> this <html lang="en-gb"> for HTML docs or for XHTML docs <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en-gb" lang="en-gb">?

As you might already know, in accessibility it is a requirement to define the language of the html/xhtml docs as described above, and for sure you know that Google has setup an extra search for accessible sites (http://labs.google.com/accessible/), and I only guess that they might have add that requirement in the normal search too, as it is anyway a pure semantical and correct markup issue.

Therefore, I think it would worth to make an experiement, as it cannot not hurt trying, and see if that makes any difference in the SERPS.

It will be a little piece though, for boosting in the accessible search anyway.

So you can only profit doing that. Or? :)

[incrediblehelp]

In my humble opinion.... Why mess with something that is not broken? If I were in the same position I'd keep my .com because it has achieved it's objective, high ranking.

I think because (as many have said above) a much higher preference is being given to .co.uk in MSN. Of course doing a change like this jeopardizes, in the short term, a much higher source of traffic you may be already getting, Google.

[PumaSpirit]

In my humble opinion.... Why mess with something that is not broken? If I were in the same position I'd keep my .com because it has achieved it's objective, high ranking.

I think because (as many have said above) a much higher preference is being given to .co.uk in MSN. Of course doing a change like this jeopardizes, in the short term, a much higher source of traffic you may be already getting, Google.

Just for curiosity sake (no plans on doing this)...

One keeps the .com, then totally revamps the site, then hosts the different version as a .co.uk on a UK server, in effect having 2 sites. Different domain, different business name, different phone # etc. Would that be spamming?

The reason I am asking is that most products/ services have competition, naturally. Doing the above would simply add to that, wouldn't it? I mean, HOW would Google/MSN/Yahoo! know both sites are owned and operated by the same entity?

[jimkelly7777]

[quote="incrediblehelp"][quote=PumaSpirit]

One keeps the .com, then totally revamps the site, then hosts the different version as a .co.uk on a UK server, in effect having 2 sites. Different domain, different business name, different phone # etc. Would that be spamming?

The reason I am asking is that most products/ services have competition, naturally. Doing the above would simply add to that, wouldn't it? I mean, HOW would Google/MSN/Yahoo! know both sites are owned and operated by the same entity?

I see two problems with this, Puma.

First, duplicate content would hurt one or both sites, regardless of who is the owner.

Also, (and this is a bit obscure) about ten months ago, Google bought the license to become a domain name reseller.

While this may sound benign, there was great puzzlement in the SEO world as to why they were doing this. Everyone knew Google didn't want to get into this business (or thought so, at least).

The guess was they were paying an enormous amount of money to have access to hidden ownership to somehow stop those who were purchasing an active domain name in order to avoid the sandbox.

You can see how our brains were muddled by their actions at the time.

Anyway, they do have access to ownership records now (I presume) and would be able to "catch" such a thing.

It's anyone's guess on how some of these SERP questions will root out in the long run.

[incrediblehelp]

Well good spammers are hard to catch. Of course in your hypothetical situation are you using the same host? Probably not so you don't get caught as easy.

Now if you using everything different then you would essentially be a different company with a different looking website. Why or how would Goggle see any trouble in that? They probably wouldn't. So if you want to run you organization like that go ahead, but eventually you will be caught.

Much easier to just make ONE website catering to your Uk customers and ONE to your .com customers.

[PumaSpirit]

Well good spammers are hard to catch. Of course in your hypothetical situation are you using the same host? Probably not so you don't get caught as easy.

Now if you using everything different then you would essentially be a different company with a different looking website. Why or how would Goggle see any trouble in that? They probably wouldn't. So if you want to run you organization like that go ahead, but eventually you will be caught.

Much easier to just make ONE website catering to your Uk customers and ONE to your .com customers.

No, incrediblehelp, hypothetically everything would be different, except the product or service itself.
Let's say, you'd also change the pricing structure in addition to all other changes. How could SE's possibly find out?

Here you are:

You have a different site, text, domain, server/host, pricing, business name/address/phone etc.

If this were possible to get away with, wouldn't it be a hayday for spammers? One could have a site for just about any country.

I.E., I am originally from Germany. I could use addresses and names of relatives. Goodness, the possibilities are endless, lol.

Maybe I shouldn't post this as to NOT give people ideas. But it is just too interesting a subject to leave it be.

[incrediblehelp]

How could SE's possibly find out?

They probably couldnt. It looks like to two different websites. Why do you want to do this? To give yourself nightmares?

[PumaSpirit]

How could SE's possibly find out?

They probably couldnt. It looks like to two different websites. Why do you want to do this? To give yourself nightmares?

Did you miss that the questions were hypothetical and that I mentioned right up top that I am NOT planning on doing this? I like my safe little corner of the web very much, tyvm :)

[incrediblehelp]

Understand Puma. Then I think I answered your question then. If you go and create two separate companies selling the same thing your probably wouldn't get penalized, until your competitors find out what is going on and email Google spam cops and they hand job you.

[PumaSpirit]

Understand Puma. Then I think I answered your question then. If you go and create two separate companies selling the same thing your probably wouldn't get penalized, until your competitors find out what is going on and email Google spam cops and they hand job you.

Thanks, incrediblehelp, that's the answer I wanted to hear, because I think someone I know of is doing just that :)

[incrediblehelp]

Dont hold your breath on the hand job, may never happen, but if they seem to be spamming go ahead and report to your hearts content.

[dburdon]

IMHO

Google.co.uk is just a front end of the main Google index, with a filter button so when a user selects to have UK-only pages shown, Google removes all the listings for companies that are not known to Google to be UK -based.

The pages that are left either have a .co.uk domain, or are .com domains hosted on an IP address that is registered to UK use.

The question is what % of users use the Filter button or local search Feature, me thinks a large %.

SEO Recruit

Because this has become an increasing issue I've carried out research across about 10 sites - both B2C and B2B. What I've found is that amongst UK derived Google traffic:

Google.com = 4-10%
Google.co.uk "web" = 45-50%
Google.co.uk "UK" = 35-45%

The reason I'm quoting in bands, is that B2C sites tended to have a higher "UK only" level and B2B sites a lower " UK only" and higher Google.com derived traffic.

[garywhw]

Have anyone tried to clarify this issue with the source, Google? Write them an email. It may help you learning something about them and their views, even if they do not reply. Or, otherwise.

[Webnauts]

Have anyone tried to clarify this issue with the source, Google? Write them an email. It may help you learning something about them and their views, even if they do not reply. Or, otherwise.

Gary how about you writing Google?

[PumaSpirit]

Have anyone tried to clarify this issue with the source, Google? Write them an email. It may help you learning something about them and their views, even if they do not reply. Or, otherwise.

Gary how about you writing Google?

Please do. Then post their answer here. It would not only be interesting but beneficial to know. Thanks.

[Webnauts]

Puma Spirit,

try this first http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=336300&highlight=#336300 and if that does not work, I promise I will contact google and post their answer here.

[SEO Recruit]

IMHO

Google.co.uk is just a front end of the main Google index, with a filter button so when a user selects to have UK-only pages shown, Google removes all the listings for companies that are not known to Google to be UK -based.

The pages that are left either have a .co.uk domain, or are .com domains hosted on an IP address that is registered to UK use.

The question is what % of users use the Filter button or local search Feature, me thinks a large %.

SEO Recruit

Because this has become an increasing issue I've carried out research across about 10 sites - both B2b and B2B. What I've found is that amongst UK derived Google traffic:

Google.com = 4-10%
Google.co.uk "web" = 45-50%
Google.co.uk "UK" = 35-45%

The reason I'm quoting in bands, is that B2C sites tended to have a higher "UK only" level and B2B sites a lower " UK only" and higher Google.com derived traffic.

Hi dburdon

Your research makes interesting reading, I have also researched this here in Ireland, my figures pointed to a figure of approx 55 – 65% of users are choosing to filter content and therefore generate a local search, I didn’t go as far as to breakdown the type of sites etc..

I also assume Ireland is similar to the UK. (Google wise)
Ie: In Ireland anyone using Google automatically gets redirected to Google.ie (no choice)

So based on a combination of our research, it’s probably fair to come to the following conclusion.

There is a market of approx 70 million English speaking people on the Islands of Ireland and the UK.
Google accounts for approx 75% of all online searches in both regions combined. ( Nielsen )
Users are automatically redirected to their local version (.co.uk, ie), and approx 55-65% of all users choose filter out non local content.

So its fair to say ( IMHO )
If your website is not hosted on a local domain ( .ie/.co.uk) or a country specific IP Block you are missing out on a substantial market.

But then im only a red arse raw Irish recruit:
and therefore perhaps not to be taken to seriously, but then again where is Goolges european headqueaters and whrere did they annouce a further major expansion this week?

Ireland might be small but we punch well above our weight.. LOL

SEO Recruit
:>)

[dburdon]

SEOrecruit,

good point. From my observations across 20+ live campaigns I can see that search is becoming more localised. Two years ago people would put in a search such as ABC "UK". Now, the "UK only" button and query descriptors such XYZ "county" or ABC "town" are increasingly seen. I guess Yellow pages and directory enquiries are suffering at the expense of search engines.

[Webnauts]

I have the feeling that the link in my previous post have been ignored.

If you are mainly targeting the UK local market try the following:

1. Stick to your native country for hosting: http://uk-web-hosting-why.blogspot.com/2006/11/changing-host-will-it-affect-my-google_09.html

2. Declare the language in your <html> tag: http://tlt.psu.edu/suggestions/international/web/tips/langtag.html and http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/Overview.en.php

3. Use a contact and about us page, adding there your postal address (no P.O boxes, Post Restant, or so ever), and additionally your telephone number.

4. Create a profile with XMDP and add it to your google sitemap: http://gmpg.org/xmdp/description and http://www.loadaveragezero.com/xml/xmdp

5. Add the <address> tag on all your pages (again, no P.O boxes, Post Restant, or so ever): http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_address.asp

6. Create a P3P Policy: http://www.w3.org/P3P/

7. Get more IBLs from sites hosted in the UK, and especially from sites with a co.uk domains.