How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly

[bhartzer]

About ten days ago I decided that it was time to put up a new site. I’ve dabbled before in buying websites from people, and have even bought an occasional expired domain name. But this time I just couldn’t find a site I wanted to buy, and wanted to brand a new domain name (the domain name I ended up buying has never been used before, it’s brand new, had no history). So, I went to my favorite registrar and bought the domain name, updated the nameservers, and set up the domain and hosting on my server. This was day one.

On day two, I set up Wordpress on the site (my content management system of choice right now) and started to populate the site with content. I edited the template with my typical “seo tweaks” like search engine friendly URLs and added my custom “ping list” of services to ping whenever I added content to the site. I think I spent about a total of 30 minutes or so, maybe 15 minutes, tweaking the CMS.

On day three I realized that I could write more content—so I spent about two hours total adding outgoing links to other sites in the niche, writing useful content that explained the industry, and adding recent news items that people in the industry are interested in reading about. This is day three now and I’m just getting around to adding more content to the site, which by the end of day three ended up being about 15-20 unique web pages on the site. I checked the domain in Google, Yahoo!, and in MSN and Google had the home page indexed—no other pages. Yahoo! and MSN had crawled, but had yet to list the domain. At the end of day three I decided “enough was enough” and left the site alone; enough content built “for now”. I did not do any link building exercises like I normally do, except for adding two or three bookmarks to the home page on my social bookmarking profiles.

On day four I did nothing.

On day five a friend of mine, in talking, mentioned that he worked in the industry—the same industry that I just put up a site about. So, I talked to him further about the industry, got some good information from him, and spent three and a half minutes adding a new page to the site with some unique content based on our conversation. Then I took 30 seconds to add another social bookmark to a few social bookmarking sites I frequent.

On day six I again did nothing, but happened to check the web stats for the site—low and behold there were thousands of visitors coming to the site. Apparently I had content on the site that people in this niche industry liked—so they suddenly were flocking to the site.

On day seven the traffic continued, and I noticed that there was more crawling activity from the bots, more activity from visitors (about the same number of visitors, thousands of uniques with them spending lots of time on the site). I added an email newsletter to the site that day and started to receive signups within about 5 minutes. I checked the site in Google (all page indexed), Yahoo! (still not even home page indexed), and MSN (home page indexed). Google’s organic search was sending traffic to the site, the site was ranking in the top 5 for competitive phrases in the industry, and what’s weird to me: people were actually searching at Google for my site’s unique name, a name I had made up about one week prior. That proved to me that the site, the domain, and the content was appearing to be “branded” in that industry.

It’s now day ten and the traffic continues. By the way, the site now has at least 80 backlinks to it (I have done no link building whatsoever except for a few social bookmarks of my own), and I’m actually considering moving the site to its own dedicated server. I may have to wait until I can respond to all the requests for advertising on the site from companies in that niche, though.

So, what’s the bottom line? I didn’t plan on going out and creating a new site that would perform so well right out of the box. I have launched new sites before, and my experience has generally been that it takes about 3-6 months before I start to see a return on my investment (with organic search traffic and a regular number of visitors every day). I personally will stop complaining about how long it takes to “age a domain” and “age content” and worry about “getting links” to a site in order to benefit from organic search traffic (mainly Google). The bottom line really comes to great, well-written content and a few other factors that I’m still trying to figure out.

[Steve W]

How about a link so we can see for ourselves?

[Hiops]

Hmm, where the 80 backlinks came from? You say, just put made some social bookmarking posts?

[dasmon777]

Fantastic I have been banging on to my clients for years about the importance of not just providing content but making it good content.

After all why else visit the site?

WOuld you mind if I purloin your story to tell my clients?

[bhartzer]

where the 80 backlinks came from
Actually, it's now 221 backlinks according to Yahoo!, not counting internal links, of course.

just put made some social bookmarking posts
You have to remember what social bookmarking is--it's telling others about content somewhere. Other people have seen the content and are linking to it once they see it. And those social bookmarking sites also show up as links to the site, as well. Did I mention that if you ping the proper places when you update your blog/site you can get some links as well?

How about a link so we can see for ourselves?
I could add a link to this post but then it would be another off-topic link. At this point I'm trying to keep all of the backlinks on-topic.

WOuld you mind if I purloin your story to tell my clients?
Sure. That's why I'm telling people my recent experience--so more people can create useful content and benefit from it.

[Hiops]

Thank you bhartzer, thay is very interesting, I'll try to utilize this startegy.

[incrediblehelp]

You have to remember what social bookmarking is--it's telling others about content somewhere. Other people have seen the content and are linking to it once they see it. And those social bookmarking sites also show up as links to the site, as well. Did I mention that if you ping the proper places when you update your blog/site you can get some links as well?

I wish I could put these types of bookmarks on every page I make.

[bhartzer]

I wish I could put these types of bookmarks on every page I make.
So, why don't you? What's holding you back from getting all of your pages bookmarked socially?

[Blackicicle]

I will keep this article in my list of links.

[swanweb]

As the social bookmarking sites you have used have been so affective, perhaps you can tell us which ones you used, so we can try a similar scenario out for ourselves :).

That wouldn't be off topic :D!!

[iwebgeek]

I could add a link to this post but then it would be another off-topic link. At this point I'm trying to keep all of the backlinks on-topic.


Why don't you just spell it out for us? We can type it in the address bar.

I am curious too about what kind of site you have.

[Jomo]

Wow. This site sounds fantastic. How about just putting the URL text (without making it a link). I'd love to see the site. Or posting a link to a page where the link is placed, so we can get to it that way.

[visio]

Thanks for sharing this.

Can someone give a good list of "ping list" please.

[EArmand]

I could add a link to this post but then it would be another off-topic link. At this point I'm trying to keep all of the backlinks on-topic.


Sorry, but that sounds pretty weak. If you're really going to share your story, you gotta be able to back it up with facts. Until then, it's just that, a story... and u know what they say... if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[rong]

How many pages of one website could you social bookmark? There must be a limited somewhere, right? Should you social bookmark too many pages, you might be considered a spammer. So what's your experience in social bookmarking pages of save website?

[southplatte]

I could add a link to this post but then it would be another off-topic link. At this point I'm trying to keep all of the backlinks on-topic.


Why don't you just spell it out for us? We can type it in the address bar.

I am curious too about what kind of site you have.

I say phht. You make these claims, and your headline for the post states: "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quick"

Yet you refuse to allow the true "how" come out. Which social bookmarking sites did you use? What search terms are being used? And I agree, spell out the site without a link so the readers here can substantiate your claims. It is too easy to say, "I did this....in this round about explanation of a way...and within days I have 1000's of unique visitors," without any thing to back it up with. MLM sites make claims like that all the time of their "earnings" yet they never provide hard proof of it.

Even an attached imaged from your web stats page with the domain name on it (hence it is hidden) and the generic stats would prove it.

[janeth]

How about a link so we can see for ourselves?
I could add a link to this post but then it would be another off-topic link. At this point I'm trying to keep all of the backlinks on-topic.

You can post the website without making the link live. (-;

[iany]

Hmmm!
Someone once said "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't"

[NextWave]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Wordpress.
We've been teaching seminars on how to use Wordpress as a CMS to create the ultimate Google friendly sites for over a year now.
We've got first page organic results for almost everything we've tried for- and a bunch of things by accident.
One additional note- make sure you alt tag everything properly- esp. images. We teach people to think of effective alt tags as what a blind person would need to know what each tagged item is. Keywords identifying pictures can bring a lot of traffic.

[tmaker]

This can be done, although not as easily as the author would lead you to believe. I launched a new site one month ago. Here's the traffic for the first month:

Oct ’06 Page Hits:177,573 Uniques:18,627

I haven't slept much in the month of October. I don't believe the "day X did nothing" nonsense. Successful launches require hard work, blood, endless hours of no sleep, and luck.

[EArmand]

It takes a little bit more than a few days and a CMS...a lot more.. If it didn't, then everyone would be doing it and nobody would need to spend a dime on PPC or SEO or paid links or professionally written content or scripts or.... should I go on?

[webracadabra]

Has anyone noticed that the original poster has fallen off without a hint of concrete information?

Stop wasting your time until more specifics come in (if they come in).

[kcire]

It takes a little bit more than a few days and a CMS...a lot more.. If it didn't, then everyone would be doing it and nobody would need to spend a dime on PPC or SEO or paid links or professionally written content or scripts or.... should I go on?Please go on...

[incrediblehelp]

I use broad based ones like Digg and Delicious and they seem to still have some solid honest users still that will read and then blog about your story.

Plus bhartzer is a solid contributor and I am sure he will be back.

[bhartzer]

the original poster has fallen off
No, I'm here. I've just been reading all of the interesting responses that have come in lately and am pondering the consequences of actually releasing the name of the site and its URL.

There are specific competitive reasons why I may not reveal the actual site URL. Please realize that my professional reputation is at stake here and I wouldn't just be going out spreading false information and rumors. The reason why I chose to write this particular post is that so many people are pessimistic nowadays about launching new sites and getting search engine traffic to them quickly because of this so-called "sandbox" theory.

Without going into specific details (just yet), let's examine what's worked:
- the site is built on wordpress and it sends out pings to other sites when the site is updated (that's one benefit of using blog software as a Content Management System).
- the site has actual content that people want to learn about and want to read.
- I've used social bookmarking communities to my benefit to "tell others" about the site and let them decide whether to tell others about that content.

For some sites, it's appropriate to spend some time building good quality links and building a site over time. For other types of sites information about content can spread quickly--and it's in the search engines' best interest to get that information indexed quickly, so they do that.

Folks, we're in a new age now. Blogs, social bookmarking, and updating your site on a regular basis and getting links is what's important now.

Freshness is important.

And you can easily get out of the "sandbox" within days or hours. Some sites may never get out of it. It just takes the right links.

[MarcThai]

So, what’s the bottom line? I didn’t plan on going out and creating a new site that would perform so well right out of the box. I have launched new sites before, and my experience has generally been that it takes about 3-6 months before I start to see a return on my investment (with organic search traffic and a regular number of visitors every day). I personally will stop complaining about how long it takes to “age a domain” and “age content” and worry about “getting links” to a site in order to benefit from organic search traffic (mainly Google). The bottom line really comes to great, well-written content and a few other factors that I’m still trying to figure out.

It's all that great content! Does it every time. I had the same experience with my real estate website holt-realty.com. When I started business I looked at the competition websites. They were all 'brochure' type sites with no information on the Thai property market. I sat down and wrote a bunch of articles, posted them on the website, and the same thing happened. We shot to the top of the SE's, and inquiries started pouring in.

A word of caution. Now that you have started, don't get lazy. If you stop posting useful articles and links, your ratings will start sliding down. It's a neverending battle, but one well worth fighting.

[bhartzer]

nobody would need to spend a dime on PPC or SEO or paid links or professionally written content or scripts
PPC? Personally I haven't spend a dime on PPC since...well...about 2001. In some industries it's a must, though. So, yes, we need PPC (especially because we need Adsense and YPN, too).

Paid links? You mean advertising, right? Google has a good handle on paid links and knows if you buy 'em or sell 'em. And Google pretty much ignores them now.

Professionally written content? Sure, some people cannot write well so that's a given.

Scripts? Sure, I rely on them every day. And part of my success has been using scripts to my advantage. I have fully customized wordpress using scripts.

[southplatte]

It takes a little bit more than a few days and a CMS...a lot more.. If it didn't, then everyone would be doing it and nobody would need to spend a dime on PPC or SEO or paid links or professionally written content or scripts or.... should I go on?

I agree - it also takes more than 3 1/2 minutes to create effective content, unless you copy/paste or are just that dang good of a writer.

"....and spent three and a half minutes adding a new page to the site with some unique content based on our conversation."


"I think I spent about a total of 30 minutes or so, maybe 15 minutes, tweaking the CMS.
Is it closer to 30 or 15? big jump there, going backwards to sound better. Also, not one specific "tweak" was mentioned...my wordpress came with a radio button to use SEO friendly URLs. Is that a tweak?


"...which by the end of day three ended up being about 15-20 unique web pages on the site."

Three days and that much content on a topic that you claim you had no idea would be such a hot topic, or generate any interest.

BTW, to Incrediblehelp - isn't adding your own sites to your own lists on Delicious, Digg etc considered a form of SPAM even though there may not be any checks or ways to stop it, or does it just seem unethical to me?

I use broad based ones like Digg and Delicious and they seem to still have some solid honest users still that will read and then blog about your story.

[Craig from MySpace]

Thanks for the tips, it really helped!

Thanks to the tips you provided, my site now has 5100 members!

[southplatte]

There are specific competitive reasons why I may not reveal the actual site URL. Please realize that my professional reputation is at stake here and I wouldn't just be going out spreading false information and rumors. The reason why I chose to write this particular post is that so many people are pessimistic nowadays about launching new sites and getting search engine traffic to them quickly because of this so-called "sandbox" theory.

The only problem I have is I read so many "thin" things about how to get results and there is always a piece (or many pieces) missing. Posting an open post such as this, without substantiation, in my opinion and stressed word opinion, is pointless, unless you plan to expound on some of the ways to help others. Otherwise it is a selfish bragging claim that is unsubstantiated, which in the "new age" doesn't fly.

[bhartzer]

unless you plan to expound on some of the ways to help others
That's the whole point of the original post.

I, for some reason, have a reputation for expounding on some of the ways to succeed, like in this post here (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=62055) where I wrote and told everyone about how to optimize a blog.

[incrediblehelp]

BTW, to Incrediblehelp - isn't adding your own sites to your own lists on Delicious, Digg etc considered a form of SPAM even though there may not be any checks or ways to stop it, or does it just seem unethical to me?

Possibly, but I only add them when I write a fresh story, that is not already in there. Of course most of the time I don't have to, they get submitted for me. I would say if your just starting off it wouldn't be that bad of maneuver if no stories or articles have been posted like that in Digg and Delicious.

[southplatte]

unless you plan to expound on some of the ways to help others
That's the whole point of the original post.

I, for some reason, have a reputation for expounding on some of the ways to succeed, like in this post here (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=62055) where I wrote and told everyone about how to optimize a blog.

See, now I can see where you are starting to come from. but think about the original post, with all the claims. then nothing.

IF, you would have said, "following the methods outlined here (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=62055), these are the results I have recieved." And then posted an image of the stats (minus the domain name) it would have been so much easier.

Incrediblehelp - thanks for the clarification. Honestly social bookmarking and things like digg are somewhat new to me.

[Craig from MySpace]

There are specific competitive reasons why I may not reveal the actual site URL. Please realize that my professional reputation is at stake here and I wouldn't just be going out spreading false information and rumors. The reason why I chose to write this particular post is that so many people are pessimistic nowadays about launching new sites and getting search engine traffic to them quickly because of this so-called "sandbox" theory.

The only problem I have is I read so many "thin" things about how to get results and there is always a piece (or many pieces) missing. Posting an open post such as this, without substantiation, in my opinion and stressed word opinion, is pointless, unless you plan to expound on some of the ways to help others. Otherwise it is a selfish bragging claim that is unsubstantiated, which in the "new age" doesn't fly.

Dude, that's what SEO really is, man. Selfish bragging.

Instead of counter-commenting this guy and his baseless 'wow look at me attention whore' article,

Just tag it with a link to your own site.

Like I'm doing.

Click it, noobs.

[SemAdvance]

Very good job

However you left out the competition level of the industry you are in and this is surely a reason why Google has been nice enough to drive traffic to your sites so soon.

You could not do the same for say "car insurance" type terms.'

Also Bill you forgot to mention that new sites from established marketers or webmasters get a bit of the trust factor built a bit more quickly than if a new person were to put up a site.

Yes social bookmarking can help in many ways, but if the links were coming from unrelevant sites, then they would not be as beneficial.

For all of you asking for the link...this is unimportant...stop asking and badgering ...would you be forthcoming of such information?? (I;ve seen all the arguements so no need to banter about how you would)

What is important is the methodology, that is what worked..the URL may or may not have been a help but that only goes so far in an algo of 100 parts.

A few notes... alt tags dont do much...use once or twice on the page as "keyword term image"... Google will only give credence to one or two on the page overdoing the usage with anything other than image in the rest of the alt tags will usually have the page filtered.

Aslo the word press usage has little to do with the resultant quick rise.. as what is important is the "freshness" factor. One can build a fresh news worthy content site with or without a CMS.

In fact a CSS and xhtml based site properly coded will perform as well, if not better than a structured system of any type.

For the poster who asked about ping services the best out there is Pingomatic http://pingomatic.com/

just my two cents..

Peace

[bhartzer]

isn't adding your own sites to your own lists...spam
Not necessarily. You have to actually look at the individual site and its goal. Delicious allows you to add to YOUR bookmarks. Nothing wrong with keeping a list of your favorites, right?

Netscape wants news. Digg wants news. Reddit, Furl, Stumbleupon, magnolia, buddymarks, yahoo my web, they all have different requirements.

Okay, someone accused me of (something) so I will continue to do my best to help everyone out...

Here's a social bookmarking "tip" that had a LOT to do with the success of this latest site of mine: Go add The Socializer (http://ekstreme.com/socializer/), it will make your life a LOT easier. It's automatic submission of social bookmarks.

[bhartzer]

Also Bill you forgot to mention that new sites from established marketers or webmasters get a bit of the trust factor built a bit more quickly than if a new person were to put up a site.
Really? If that's the case then let me show you some sites that I own that aren't doing so well because I haven't applied the same tips and techniques to website promotion than I have to the site that I just put up.

If all it took was to buy a domain name and put an established marketer or webmaster's name on it to rank well then I'd be rich.

New sites from established webmasters and marketers do well becuase they know which techniques work well and which ones don't. Established webmasters and marketers have had plenty of failures before they actually got it "right". That's why new sites by established webmasters and marketers do well. Not because they just have their name on it.

[southplatte]

isn't adding your own sites to your own lists...spam
Not necessarily. You have to actually look at the individual site and its goal. Delicious allows you to add to YOUR bookmarks. Nothing wrong with keeping a list of your favorites, right?

Netscape wants news. Digg wants news. Reddit, Furl, Stumbleupon, magnolia, buddymarks, yahoo my web, they all have different requirements.

Okay, someone accused me of (something) so I will continue to do my best to help everyone out...

Here's a social bookmarking "tip" that had a LOT to do with the success of this latest site of mine: Go add The Socializer (http://ekstreme.com/socializer/), it will make your life a LOT easier. It's automatic submission of social bookmarks.

Thanks for the clarification. Also, a very much thanks for the nifty little tool there.

[greeneagle]

Bill,

I am a late arrival here (on this thread), but I must thank you for posting your experience here!

As you probably know, I have been a long time, staunch opposer of those that want to fall back and claim:
"THE SANDBOX DID IT".

We constantly deal with "Oh my gosh" my 10 page "Real Estate" site isn't playing out against mega competition here.

In all reality, it is quite pathetic, when webmasters don't know what competitive grounds they are playing on.

I must say, I find it extremely refreshing to hear someone say: "I played the game, and it is real!"

You just don't know what you've done for my soul here!

We are getting as much as 80Meg/day on our 2 month old Site - It's REAL, It happens, And It'S GREAT TO HEAR ABOUT WHEN IT DOES!

You don't have to post a link for me to believe, I know your reputation!, and I don't blame you at all in this competitive a world!

Thanks again, for your post, it really brightened up my day.

I am excited for you!

"GodSpeed" my fellow Texan... carry on!

LOL

Ken

[tmaker]

I use broad based ones like Digg and Delicious and they seem to still have some solid honest users still that will read and then blog about your story.

*sputters* Honest users on Digg? Please. On Delicious yes, but on Digg no.

Top 100 Digg Users Control 56% of Digg's HomePage Content

http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=1228

I'd like for the author of this story to put up or shu... :) you know the rest. The more I think about this the more it irks me. Give us hard facts or stop wasting our time please.

[MarcThai]

I'm amazed that everyone is begging for the site URL. It's right there if you look for it. I found it in 2 seconds flat and I have already viewed the site and emailed Bill with a suggestion for another article.

If Bill doesn't want to tell you the URL I won't either. But here's a clue: Alexa....;-)

[greeneagle]

Marc,

In several years of coexisting here with Bill on WPW, I have never seen any reason to ever doubt anything he says, so I really don't even need to see a link.

Ken

[tmaker]

I'm amazed that everyone is begging for the site URL. It's right there if you look for it. I found it in 2 seconds flat and I have already viewed the site and emailed Bill with a suggestion for another article.

If Bill doesn't want to tell you the URL I won't either. But here's a clue: Alexa....;-)

The link in his sig is an Alexa redirect that goes to a domain that was registered in February '03, if that's what you mean. He said he registered a new domain. If it's not what you mean then forgive me, I don't have time for puzzles.

[MarcThai]

I'm amazed that everyone is begging for the site URL. It's right there if you look for it. I found it in 2 seconds flat and I have already viewed the site and emailed Bill with a suggestion for another article.

If Bill doesn't want to tell you the URL I won't either. But here's a clue: Alexa....;-)

The link in his sig is an Alexa redirect that goes to a domain that was registered in February '03, if that's what you mean. He said he registered a new domain. If it's not what you mean then forgive me, I don't have time for puzzles.

Mea Culpa!

[greeneagle]

I do not and can not go along with all the "longevity ghosts" that are out there right now in the SEO world!

But, this thread isn't mine, it's Bill's. Obviously though, from his post we must conjecture he doesn't believe in those "spooks" either.

I'd prefer hearing from him. He did state;"NEW-NEW-NEW", didn't he?

Maybe, I missed something.

Ken

[pdstein]

There are specific competitive reasons why I may not reveal the actual site URL.

OK, I'll bite. What does that mean? You've launched a new site, you've done a great job creating a buzz here, so why would you not unleash that buzz on you new site and allow it to propel your site to the next level?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning you or the success you've claimed. I'm just curious since it seems counter-intuitive.

[tmaker]

Look, I don't mean to come across as short. Like I said I launched a site successfully a month ago and I haven't slept. Let me give you some insight as to why people are asking you for more information.

This site is considered an authority in the subject of web promotion, SEO, etc. The URL is "WebProWorld" for Pete's sake. So you guys are the experts, and people like me are the ones who want to be a "pro," like you. Heck, I even registered so I could participate in this thread.

Before posting this article you MUST have realized people would want to know more. How did you do it? What is the URL? What are your traffic stats? Like I said we look up to you for information to become better at web promotion.

By not giving this information, you're defeating the purpose of this site. And you're coming across as someone who's bragging by saying "look what I can do!" without telling us how. Which is why I said you're wasting our time.

I don't have any history with you, so I have no idea if what you're saying is true. Those with history can take your word as gold, but it means nothing to me. If you're not going to post articles where you can divulge the secret identity of your url, maybe you shouldn't post them at all.

End of line.

[greeneagle]

pdstein,

Demanding him to rip open his rain jacket and expose himself to all of us WPWer's here is a pretty weak argument in lieu of those acclaimed results, don't you think?

40 today, 20 tomorrow, and then what?

We have already been through this before together when he went "News Site" hunting and found success.

I am totally satisfied in believing when bhartzer says; "I did it, and it happened", it's real.

I completely understand his reluctance in saying: "Come follow me and run over my ass", in the process...

LOL

Ken

[tmaker]

pdstein,

Demanding him to rip open his rain jacket and expose himself to all of us WPWer's here is a pretty weak argument in lieu of those acclaimed results, don't you think?

40 today, 20 tomorrow, and then what?

We have already been through this before together when he went "News Site" hunting and found success.

I am totally satisfied in believing when bhartzer says; "I did it, and it happened", it's real.

I completely understand his reluctance in saying: "Come follow me and run over my ass", in the process...

LOL

Ken

This is a really weak argument. The title of this thread is "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly" and the author should be expected to divulge this information. You're a moderator here? You're coming across as his crony.

[greeneagle]

tmaker,

You can view me as a "crony" if you want, so can anyone else, I don't care. The fact is, is that Bill and I have never done business together and are not so connected.

I simply respect what he has to say here as an authoritive voice and when he speaks, I listen. I would do that as a MOD or not. That simply doesn't play in.

Are you aware of his position in the SEO world and what he does for the whole North Texas community in the SEO world? Do you know what organizations he plays a leadership role in? Do you know that he places his reputation at stake every time he opens his mouth here or elswhere?

Maybe you lost me for a moment.

Maybe I lost you! Who knows?

Ken

[tmaker]

Go back a page and look for my post, the one right before your response to pdstein. You posted right after me and you probably missed it.

And no, his reputation is unknown to me. As I said the title of the article is "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate" and he tells us nothing. And I'm not the only one saying this. Go figure.

[MikeinFlorida]

I commend you for all the hard work and your efforts and I sure wish you well with it.

However, I have had a similar experience in the past with a site. I was amazed it was indexed by G and was in a very hot topic at the time. In fact, it was a site about an Olympic athlete. The site flew up the first first page for several key phrases only to drop quickly within a matter of days.

I hope this doesn't happen to you. Good luck with the site.

[greeneagle]

tmaker,

I have been following this thread with quite a bit of interest. I didn't need to go back and review on your urgence, even though I did...

There are some voices here I respect as a voice of authority, even if they are not a MOD, and bhartzer is one of the select few.

Not one time can I account for him leading anyone off track here, and I challenge anyone else to do so.

You should trot down the path of a little more research there, even though he doesn't have top DFW (Dallas - Fort Worth) SEO Organization links played out in his sig, at the moment.

Ken

[tmaker]

tmaker,

I have been following this thread with quite a bit of interest. I didn't need to go back and review on your urgence, even though I did...

There are some voices here I respect as a voice of authority, even if they are not a MOD, and bhartzer is one of the select few.

Not one time can I account for him leading anyone off track here, and I challenge anyone else to do so.

You should trot down the path of a little more research there, even though he doesn't have top DFW (Dallas - Fort Worth) SEO links played out in his sig, at the moment.

Ken

I don't think you're really getting it. He's your buddy and you respect him, that's great. I was looking for a how-to article when I got the newsletter in my email. "Look what I can do!" isn't a "How To" article. I've got work to do and am not interested in going back and forth with a moderator. Everyone one else is welcome to disagree, but the only useful thing I got from this thread is the Socializer link, and I'm not so awed by someones reputation to be afraid to say that.

(Thanks to the user who posted the Socializer link. :))

[greeneagle]

OK tmaker, you have relegated me to "groupie" status.

Did you want Bill to post his Hosting Stats username and password here?

Sorry if you were misled, but I really doubt that Bill is going to say: "I have MSN 3D sitemaps to link out to the first 10 that really challenge me here - so come on and "squat" my gold rush here, before I get it all!".

"Gold Rush" is an AOL thing isn't it?

Did I miss something here?

He detailed the map in his first posts here. How much clearer does it need to be?

Ken

[aaron2005]

I launched a blog that covers something I enjoy, "wordpress" linked it from my main site and in just a few weeks it was doing ok. No link building, no SEO other than the regular search engine friendly layout and code. So, what is the tick? There is none and nobody needs to buy my lame ebook either, ain't it freakin' great!!! =P

Here is the link: http://www.webmaster404.com/

How's that for honesty? =P

[greeneagle]

aaron2005,

My map reads that "wordpress" was only 1 element.

Ken

[aaron2005]

The only thing a new site needs is 1 or two related links, after that it is just about building content that is useful. If you get another natural link you are doing great but if you don't, do not sweat it, get back to building the best site you can.

I have several sites doing extremely well with zero SEO and very few links.

It's is a new day my friends.

[greeneagle]

This is sad, but I am tired and need to relegate myself to some sleep and some time with my wife...
Here's a big hint though:

It's been my experience that bhartzer (Bill) is a real "up front" kind of guy. If he had a map (as simple as it might seem to some), he most likely would have laid it out in his first posts.

This thread kind of reminds me of many years ago,(13) when my young son was visiting with me. We were riding down the road discussing a serious event and he looked at me and said, in all earnest:

"Dad, sometimes a boy has to do what a boy has to do".

Come to find out, that was some of the best advice I have ever heard.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Ken

[deepsand]

pdstein,

Demanding him to rip open his rain jacket and expose himself to all of us WPWer's here is a pretty weak argument in lieu of those acclaimed results, don't you think?

40 today, 20 tomorrow, and then what?

We have already been through this before together when he went "News Site" hunting and found success.

I am totally satisfied in believing when bhartzer says; "I did it, and it happened", it's real.

I completely understand his reluctance in saying: "Come follow me and run over my ass", in the process...

LOL

Ken

Let us accept what you say as a given premise.

That still begs the question as to the reason for a post that says "this is what I accomplished, but I'm not going say more."

What's the point?

[greeneagle]

aaron2005:


"It's is a new day my friends."

I am going to have to agree with you Aaron.

Ken

[tacimala]

OK back to something a little more related to the topic, regarding the Socializer plugin, is this approach better than giving the user the choice to submit to one social bookmarking site (or several if they choose)? Wouldn't this (Socializer) be a bit more spammy submitting everything everywhere all the time?

[greeneagle]

deepsand,

I believe the only thing Bill left out of his initial posts was access to stats, wasn't it?

It really is that simple. It's a shame everyone wants to make it harder than it really is.

The whole game isn't a train wreck waiting to happen, nor is it rocket science.

What secret formula is everyone looking for?

There are a great number of digital doors to walk ourselves or clients thru every day of our lives, and more are coming on by the minute.

You play the marketing match game (I'll take doors 3,9 and 15) and whamo - your client confirms results.

That might not be what Bill said, but it seems pretty close.

WOW - Magic!

Ken

[tmaker]

It's been my experience that bhartzer (Bill) is a real "up front" kind of guy.

Really? "Up front" kind of guy? Then be up front and post the URL, Bill. I'm not the only one who wants to see it.

[pdstein]

pdstein,

Demanding him to rip open his rain jacket and expose himself to all of us WPWer's here is a pretty weak argument in lieu of those acclaimed results, don't you think?

40 today, 20 tomorrow, and then what?

We have already been through this before together when he went "News Site" hunting and found success.

I am totally satisfied in believing when bhartzer says; "I did it, and it happened", it's real.

I completely understand his reluctance in saying: "Come follow me and run over my ass", in the process...

LOL

Ken

Ken, were you actually replying to my post? I'm confused because I was not demanding he "rip open his rain jacket and expose himself." I was just asking for a clearer explanation of why he wouldn't post the URL of his site. I totally respect his right not to devulge that information, but "for specific competative reasons" is about as vague a non-answer as they come. If he doesn't want to explain what that means, then so be it, but I'm just curious to understand why someone wouldn't want the publicity that would come from posting the URL of their site here.

- Paul

[sysop9999]

I remember back in the days when I used blogs as well, I used only Pingoat to announce my stuff - that worked great.

[tmaker]

deepsand,

I believe the only thing Bill left out of his initial posts was access to stats, wasn't it?

It really is that simple. It's a shame everyone wants to make it harder than it really is.

The whole game isn't a train wreck waiting to happen, nor is it rocket science.

What secret formula is everyone looking for?

There are a great number of digital doors to walk ourselves or clients thru every day of our lives, and more are coming on by the minute.

You play the marketing match game (I'll take doors 3,9 and 15) and whamo - your client confirms results.

That might not be what Bill said, but it seems pretty close.

WOW - Magic!

Ken

Forgive me for asking this because I realize it is way off topic. But I have to ask - how much have you had to drink, greeneagle?

[deepsand]

deepsand,

I believe the only thing Bill left out of his initial posts was access to stats, wasn't it?

It really is that simple. It's a shame everyone wants to make it harder than it really is.

The whole game isn't a train wreck waiting to happen, nor is it rocket science.

What secret formula is everyone looking for?

There are a great number of digital doors to walk ourselves or clients thru every day of our lives, and more are coming on by the minute.

You play the marketing match game (I'll take doors 3,9 and 15) and whamo - your client confirms results.

That might not be what Bill said, but it seems pretty close.

WOW - Magic!

Ken

The question, "to what end?," remains.

[greeneagle]

LOL

We used to have a MOD here that went by "Minstrel". He was a "Psych". I do miss him and his input. One saying he had was said "tongue-in-cheek":
"I just couldn't help myself", and he only used it when when it was warranted:

Let me entertain you in the meantime, while we are waiting for Bill to respond, (if he does) with this well captioned PR5 site (http://www.dinosaurpark.co.uk/).
This PR5 Site gets down with paleothenic music and great verbiage for today’s SEO “hunters” (http://www.dinosaurpark.org/)! – a must see!

Ken

[EArmand]

Sorry guys but I'm with tmaker here and all the others that are “begging” for his URL and felt short changed with this article. Actually, nobody is asking for his stats or user id or passwords, so let's not exaggerate either... a link would have been nice so that we could see his amazing invention and creation, but I understand the whole privacy issue as well.

However, if you're going to write a "how to" article, you better deliver more on the "how to's" and do a little less bragging with statements like, “it took a minute for this and two minutes for that”….and now I’m “The Man”.

I’m not sure but I think we are all here to learn from each other, not to impress each other… I give Bill’s article a huge Thumbs Down and I can’t believe it made the cover of the newsletter.

[janeth]

LOL

We used to have a MOD here that went by "Minstrel". He was a "Psych". I do miss him and his input. One saying he had was said "tongue-in-cheek":
"I just couldn't help myself", when it was warranted:

Let me entertain you in the meantime, while we are waiting for Bill to respond, (if he does) with this well captioned PR5 site (http://www.dinosaurpark.co.uk/).
This PR5 Site gets down with paleothenic music and great verbiage for today’s SEO “hunters” (http://www.dinosaurpark.org/)! – a must see!

Ken


Someone might need to see if they can find a Mod. to get this thread back on topic.

[tmaker]

Someone might need to see if they can find a Mod. to get this thread back on topic.

greeneagle is a mod here. Think about that a moment.


Sorry guys but I'm with tmaker here and all the others that are “begging” for his URL and felt short changed with this article. Actually, nobody is asking for his stats or user id or passwords, so let's not exaggerate either... a link would have been nice so that we could see his amazing invention and creation, but I understand the whole privacy issue as well.

Thank you.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

Bill laid out the whole map in his first posts. Why would anyone have to provide proprietary information to express a point?

What are we dealing with here? - I can't tell you how many mutual confidentiality agreements I have signed with clients as engineer, engineering manager, in marketing positions and with web development clients.

I seriously doubt that Bill is going to spill all his beans here, but that doesn't make his post any less relevant. Go back, read and understand what he delivered and what he said, or stay here (http://www.blm.gov/nhp/pubs/They_Walked_Here.pdf).

I am simply stating what I see here in this thread.

"Getting back on topic" - isn't about forcing proprietary information - IMO.

Providing URL proof for doubters was never intended as part of the game. Why should it be?

Ken

[aaron2005]

For the first time I am agreeing with greeneagle 99% here, if the dude offers the link 100%. ;)

[anandnadaar]

Well I too agree to Tmaker to some extent. At the same time I also understand confidentiality issue.

But when someone is posting an article with such good reputation etc.. it should have been more informative with examples and not just "come catch me" types.
for ex: If I am posting an article here which is circulated to everyones Inbox and it states as "Use my FREE SEO Tools" and people visit that link to see that URL where they can get FREE SEO tools. And they may feel dejected when they see just an article about FREE SEO tools that I have developed and no links of any tools what so ever.
So questions may arise..(naturally)

[greeneagle]

Guys/Gals

I just don't see the disconnect here. Bill explicitly explained how and what "DOORS" he walked through in the process, even providing timelines.

That was all he agreed to in his post!

HE DID NOT AGREE TO POST AN URL FOR DOUBTERS!

He fully delivered content relevant to his thread title. (period)!

I am really not sure why some are having such dificulty seeing the value that was delivered there.

Ken

[deepsand]

Guys/Gals

I just don't see the disconnect here. Bill explicitly explained how and what "DOORS" he walked through in the process, even providing timelines.

That was all he agreed to in his post!

HE DID NOT AGREE TO POST AN URL FOR DOUBTERS!

He fully delivered content relevant to his thread title. (period)!

Ken

By way of analogy, he said:

"I got into a means of conveyance, travelled fast, and got there in record time."

Explicit? Not according to any dictionary available to me.

[greeneagle]

Hey "Penn State" I can send you to "Explicit" if you need to go there, but what's not "explicit" enough about this?:


"About ten days ago I decided that it was time to put up a new site. I’ve dabbled before in buying websites from people, and have even bought an occasional expired domain name. But this time I just couldn’t find a site I wanted to buy, and wanted to brand a new domain name (the domain name I ended up buying has never been used before, it’s brand new, had no history). So, I went to my favorite registrar and bought the domain name, updated the nameservers, and set up the domain and hosting on my server. This was day one.

On day two, I set up Wordpress on the site (my content management system of choice right now) and started to populate the site with content. I edited the template with my typical “seo tweaks” like search engine friendly URLs and added my custom “ping list” of services to ping whenever I added content to the site. I think I spent about a total of 30 minutes or so, maybe 15 minutes, tweaking the CMS.

On day three I realized that I could write more content—so I spent about two hours total adding outgoing links to other sites in the niche, writing useful content that explained the industry, and adding recent news items that people in the industry are interested in reading about. This is day three now and I’m just getting around to adding more content to the site, which by the end of day three ended up being about 15-20 unique web pages on the site. I checked the domain in Google, Yahoo!, and in MSN and Google had the home page indexed—no other pages. Yahoo! and MSN had crawled, but had yet to list the domain. At the end of day three I decided “enough was enough” and left the site alone; enough content built “for now”. I did not do any link building exercises like I normally do, except for adding two or three bookmarks to the home page on my social bookmarking profiles.

On day four I did nothing.

On day five a friend of mine, in talking, mentioned that he worked in the industry—the same industry that I just put up a site about. So, I talked to him further about the industry, got some good information from him, and spent three and a half minutes adding a new page to the site with some unique content based on our conversation. Then I took 30 seconds to add another social bookmark to a few social bookmarking sites I frequent.

On day six I again did nothing, but happened to check the web stats for the site—low and behold there were thousands of visitors coming to the site. Apparently I had content on the site that people in this niche industry liked—so they suddenly were flocking to the site.

On day seven the traffic continued, and I noticed that there was more crawling activity from the bots, more activity from visitors (about the same number of visitors, thousands of uniques with them spending lots of time on the site). I added an email newsletter to the site that day and started to receive signups within about 5 minutes. I checked the site in Google (all page indexed), Yahoo! (still not even home page indexed), and MSN (home page indexed). Google’s organic search was sending traffic to the site, the site was ranking in the top 5 for competitive phrases in the industry, and what’s weird to me: people were actually searching at Google for my site’s unique name, a name I had made up about one week prior. That proved to me that the site, the domain, and the content was appearing to be “branded” in that industry.

It’s now day ten and the traffic continues. By the way, the site now has at least 80 backlinks to it (I have done no link building whatsoever except for a few social bookmarks of my own), and I’m actually considering moving the site to its own dedicated server. I may have to wait until I can respond to all the requests for advertising on the site from companies in that niche, though.

So, what’s the bottom line? I didn’t plan on going out and creating a new site that would perform so well right out of the box. I have launched new sites before, and my experience has generally been that it takes about 3-6 months before I start to see a return on my investment (with organic search traffic and a regular number of visitors every day). I personally will stop complaining about how long it takes to “age a domain” and “age content” and worry about “getting links” to a site in order to benefit from organic search traffic (mainly Google). The bottom line really comes to great, well-written content and a few other factors that I’m still trying to figure out."

And then he "banged" out more later... For "crying out loud"! and you demand an URL on top of that?

I really don't believe that he, I or many here care whether you or anyone else "validates" it to feel complete.

We have a real problem in these forums this way!

The #1 Rule of any Research & Development endeavor anywhere must be that anyone has the right to project an idea without ridicule - flat out straight on the table.

The obvious #2 Rule is that everyone has the right to examine it for themselves and determine their own validation.

Let's understand that an idea can be presented without provision of public validation!

If anyone chooses to present an idea to the community here for public examinatin without public validation...by god that's ok with me and it should be with everyone else in this community also. If the presenter wants to toss it out and leave it for individual validation... why not?

Why do we tend to diss creative thought in that manner?

But let's go one step further... I have no doubt Bill proved this process for himself, by reputation alone.

That fact should have been ascertained by many here, resulting in stimulus for everyone's "creative muscle" by itself to cause enough intrigue to look further into the doors he walked through!

What the hell are we doing here, dissing a proven creative and scientific process like this?

I personally don't even want to be involved in a community of participants that don't understand these basics of discovery or even the fundamentals of "the creative process".

Is this "off-topic" here also Janeth? Or is this the "dance floor"?

Ken

[icallbs]

HE DID NOT AGREE TO POST AN URL FOR DOUBTERS!





Of course he didn't. That would require backing up his fairy tale. Instead, it comes across as nothing more than a self-written testimonial, which pretty much wastes everyone's time.

[greeneagle]

Welcome to WPW icallbs,

We were posting on top of each other. You may not have had the opportunity to read my last post before posting.

Ken

[greeneagle]

IMO - The real disgrace here is that we are on page 4 and haven't even discussed the mechanics of what Bill presented...

Shame on us all!

Ken

[anandnadaar]

IMO - The real disgrace here is that we are on page 4 and haven't even discussed the mechanics of what Bill presented...

Shame on us all!

Ken

Yes surely, you are right because I wasted my time on reading his testimonial and forgot that I had other important things to do.

[southplatte]

I think Greeneagle (and I have read many of your posts over the years on here and respect much of what you say), the point many of us got to is, "wow, how did it work for him..."

When you think to recieve thousands of unique visitors a day after only 6 days, with less than 30 pages of content, it seems pretty hard to believe, espeically without mass marketing which is what most of us first think to receive that type of traffic - mass SEO, mass PPC, mass Email, possibly even larger things such as traditional media.

Compound that with the fact that it was a 100% new URL, with no history, no content, and he added few links from social sites with a bit of content and it is on fire?

I understand from reading a bit around about Bill's position and believe the credentials I have seen about him. However, for those who do not know who he is, it would be like me telling everyone I am the lead web developer of a multi-million dollar corporation that deals with some of the largest retailers in the world. Do you believe me? Sure you don't, becuase I have provided nothing that proves my claim. I think that many on this thread did not realize where Bill came from.

Now, if I provided my company name, a web url, or a copy of my business card that would mean a whole lot more. No one asked for user names, passwords or anything more than the URL to check it out.

This also makes me think that getting traffic from a forum is bad, if it is unrelated. So a scenario that comes to my mind is why ask for a site review, that is an IBL that is from an unrelated web site, unless of course the site being reviewed has to deal with web design.

I also think the basic article title was misleading - and that is probably the biggest challenge I found in what I read was it did not match what I expected from reading the title....and I think many others felt that same way.

I am sure Bill meant no harm in it. And yes it is a game, and yes there are some winners, some losers and no one wants to share their success, becuase truthfully it is all shortlived anyway in the web world in which we live.

Anyway, Bill I understand your points, your reasons and will leave it at that....I was definitely expecting something else based upon the title.

I tell you what...I have a new domain name I registered, I am wishing to get mass traffic to. I am going to follow what you have done and see where it takes me. I have generated some interest in the idea already just by metioning a few non-specific ideas I have about it via word of mouth.

I will use wordpress, the tools and techniques you talk about, the content creation and links to other sites and the do the social bookmark idea. With that, I will see what my results for my topic are - it will be interesting to see the difference based upon the content, topic etc.

[greeneagle]

I wish you luck in your endeavors there southplatte.

I think Bill found a "Niche", If fact, that's the most important thing that wasn't exposed here. The URL is not a prime issue at all - IMO. Offering up an URL for the MOB would equate to turning that niche into a sacraficial lamb right now. That potential scenario isn't too difficult to understand, I wouldn't think.

What I got out of Bill's post was that there are a great number of "Digital Doors" we can walk ourselves or clients through now. Choose the right ones and "SHAZAMMMMMM", just like magic. I have to concurr with that market synopsis from my experience.

We are 2 months deep in a complete site revision and launch for a client and have gone from zero to 80Meg days (most pages in the 10kb max range) and are being passed around Capitol Hill. That's pretty serious branding and a great turnaround.

It happens, and I wish you great success going forward.

Ken

[ctabuk]

Firstly Bill is a respected member of WPW and has been for years. BUT - if a poster makes a contribution without actually showing how they did it, then I am sorry - it's like publishing a book with the last page missing.

OK - I did this 2 weeks ago www.doningtonforum.co.uk and I got links immediately just by adding the URL to my sig in forums that Google like. No sandbox, no probs straight into top spot for its search term -NO KEYWORDS - forums do not normally have keyword tags. Unique names get Unique results - and that can be via 1 link or thousands.

[joer80]

Your right, its not hard to find the site he is talking about but the best way is not using alexa.

I see the site and believe he is getting lots of traffic.... But... My question is, how is he getting so many hits from Google finance? Doesn't look like he is getting many organic hits because his homepage doesn't show up in Google for his 4 word target keyphrase.

Probably getting hits from all of the pinging and fresh posting. I think he is showing up on alot of blog search engines and Google is grabbing his "content" because its fresh and is related and showing it on Google finance under company searches.

If this is the case, traffic should fall off unless his post rate stays steady. Which it very possibly can because the content doesn't look hard to produce. Kinda resembles a slightly modified press release really?

Just my guess though ;)

[nipplecharms1]

Anyone but me notice this cat has not been back since before Christ was a boy in this thread?


Aliens Killed Kennedy.
DALLAS, TX (AP) - Aliens in a striking move today, Nov 21, 1963, killed President John Kennedy in his motorcade. Since no one really confessed, the alien threat is now real.

I can make that claim... can I back it up. hummmmm? Let me take off my aluminum foil-lined wool cap and see what I can conjure up.

Claims are one thing. Proof, entirely different. I have read "Bill" here for sometime and also respect his sage but does not mean its all correct? Makes you wonder.

To me, this sounds like one of the hundreds of junk e-mails for sites that go on for 35 inches on one page, saying the same thing.. nothing, to get you to buy an e-book or some such nonesense.

If I am wrong "Bill", let me know and I will be the first to shout from the hills that you are the mecca we should all climb. Until then, with a grain of salt I await your response to the forum.

Janeth... on topic enough? :) (now if janeth made these claims there would be NO challenge by me!!!!) :)

Michael

PS. all you believers... post the freaking site!

[joer80]

the hardest thing for me to believe is

"I may have to wait until I can respond to all the requests for advertising on the site"

If the original poster or a mod gives me a go ahead ill post what I think the site is. I don't want to step on too many toes. But then again, its just what I think is the site, not necessarily the real one, right? :)

[williamc]

First off, I have known bhartzer a while and I actually don't doubt that his claim is real enough. That is though, just my opinion.

Ken?


In all reality, it is quite pathetic, when webmasters don't know what competitive grounds they are playing on.

Dude, that perfectly describes you, I have no idea why you would post that on a forum where quite a few people know you got beat down for thinking 6 terms you bragged about and called "ultra-competitive" across a 21 page thread were taken from you with 2 links by another regular here just to shut you up.

[tmaker]

How I Launched a Successful Forum in 30 Days

Site URL:
http://tinyurl.com/y4ds3v
Position at Google: #1
http://tinyurl.com/y7meoc
Traffic in first month:
Page Hits - 177,573
Uniques - 18,627

0) Did my research! Using Overture and other keyword sources determined the best keywords for my site. SEO optimized my forum software. Submitted sitemaps to Google and Yahoo.
1) Found sites with high pagerank offering backlinks, procured backlinks.
2) Posted in keyword relevant forums with my keywords in my signature linking back to my site. Alot.
3) Used two paid posting services to populate content. In hindsight this was a mistake, as paid posters sound like robots. Just bribe your buds with some beer and have them post.
4) Used Google PPC ads on relevant sites.
5) DID NOT stop, ever. Worked night and day for 30 days.
6) Got lucky.

30 days later I've got 550+ members with over 6300+ articles posted.

Success comes from forward motion. Donald Trump once said something about how you'll eventually be successful if you just never quit. There's more to it than that of course, but if you keep learning and trying you'll get there.

That's what I was expecting from this article. Hope my story was helpful to those of you expecting the same who got as little as I did from this "How To." Bye.

[bhartzer]

joer80, you're right, it's not an alexa thing and it's not tough to find 'one of' the sites I'm talking about by looking for them. One might even go to Google and look for bhartzer. But again, you'd have to wade your way through 529,000 search results. ;)

Anyhow, the actual URL isn't important here, as I've launched over half a dozen of the same (type) of sites in the past 2 to 3 weeks and gotten stellar results.

Let's get back to the title of this post: how to launch a new site and dominate quickly.

1.Buy a domain name.
2.Use wordpress or another CMS to allow you to generate content quickly.
3.Populate the site with content that people want to see.
4.Use social bookmarking to your advantage to "get the word out".
5.Continue to create content that people want to see.

Yes, in order to continue to get good rankings it's necessary to update your site on a regular basis--a major part of the Google algorithm right now is freshness among other things. Creating content on a regular basis also gets you more links, and natural link growth is key.

I've mentioned The Socializer. That's helpful. But if you don't create good content that people want to bookmark and tell others about then social bookmarking won't work.

By the way, I never said that all the traffic is coming from Google Finance--it counts as a backlink but doesn't bring thousands of visitors overnight. It can't hurt to get links from Google themselves, though ;)

My whole point in writing this thread is to tell you how to put up a new site and dominate a niche quickly. So let's get back to the task at hand.

If you have a specific question about any of the 5 points I made above then ask it and let's get to the meat of this thing: how do you launch a new site and dominate quickly?

[ctabuk]

the hardest thing for me to believe is

"I may have to wait until I can respond to all the requests for advertising on the site"

If the original poster or a mod gives me a go ahead ill post what I think the site is. I don't want to step on too many toes. But then again, its just what I think is the site, not necessarily the real one, right? :)

My suggestion would be to PM Bill and ask him if he has any objections - if no response is forthcoming within say 48 hours go ahead thisMod does not mind - To WilliamC - I too have no doubt that Bill is brilliant at what he does - but I am wearing a 'New Posters hat' and seeing it from outside the box.

[nipplecharms1]

My whole point in writing this thread is to tell you how to put up a new site and dominate a niche quickly. So let's get back to the task at hand.



Let me be the first to say... lets get to the point Bill. Stop with the vagueness.

Or, I have a site I want to bring up. have the url, waiting to get a hosting account....

Wanna help me? Lets prove your point together. Oh, the site is a commerce site, not a blog or a feel good site.

Tempted?

Michael

[jenik]

Having thousand of visitors on 4 days old site is only possible when thousands of potential visitors know about the site. How so many people get to know so young site in so short time without any advertising? The content is surely not the only answer. Any site needs first visitors and SE to discover and review the content. All these take more than 4 days.

I think the only logical answer would be a good IBL from authority and/or well-trafficked site. As I understood, Bill is a respected member of WPW and presumably he can manage to get IBL from some authority and/or well-trafficked sites.

By the way, this thread from Bill was reviewed over 2200 times in last 5 days. This is not bad traffic either for the site mentioned.

[bhartzer]

Any site needs first visitors and SE to discover and review the content.
Absolutely not. The whole point of this thread is that sites do not need search engines to get visitors.

Create the content and use social bookmarking to your advantage when you can and when it's appropriate. The search engines will see that there are visitors to your site and the search engine rankings will follow which will eventually bring more traffic.

Have you ever considered that Google, for example, is using the Google Toolbar to their advantage? They know that those people are visiting your site and they reward you for that.


lets get to the point Bill
I think I have gotten to the point. Social bookmarking, good content, and a search engine friendly site is the answer.

[joer80]

True or not, I think the method can be applied to regular ecommerce websites.

1. Build the site
2. add a blog to it with a lot of press releases.
3. Social bookmark both
4. Ping the blog to the right places.

News traffic is not as good as normal organic traffic IMHO, but you "MAY" gain links in the process to help that.

[DrTandem1]

Bill laid out the whole map in his first posts. Why would anyone have to provide proprietary information to express a point

Ken

Ken, After reading through all the posts to this point all I can deduce is that he has a web site with an associated blog. I don't think anyone is asking for proprietary information. After all, if it is a URL on the internet, it ain't proprietary.

What concerns me is not so much what he did or how he did it, but what the topic of the site is. Not divulging this leads me to suspect one of two things. Either it doesn't exist or it's something he is embarrassed to divulge.

Assuming that your respect for him is well placed as I respect you, I must assume the latter of my suspicions. This then leads me to think that it is sexual in nature. If it is, then there is no mystery here.

There really is no reason not to release the URL here so we can at least see what the site has to offer. I think he stated that he didn't want to contaminate his results from the URL being in the forum. That is a bogus response. There are many ways to release a URL without it being a link.

If he's afraid someone here will steal his idea, that appears to be illogical as well. He shouldn't have posted anything entitled "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly." His post basically said, "I registered a new URL that has never been used. Then I created a blog. Now I have a lot of back links and visitors." So what?

Am I missing something here? Maybe more was related since your post I quoted, Ken. I'll read on...

[janeth]

I've been watching this thread and I myself have a couple of blogs and one that is brand new. I've just started playing around with blogs even though I've had some of them for a good while.

Here's what I've found.

wordpress seems to be more then good enough for the search engines and removing things like date and time seems to be more of a waste of time then something that is really going to help you rank.

Another words I'm of the mind that wordpress is ready to go with out all the crazy little changes, although I've done a couple of them.

I'm willing to give Bill the benefit of the doubt and would like to move the thread along.

I'm going to post my question in another post so I don't end up with a long useless post that takes away from my questions.

[janeth]

I think I have gotten to the point. Social bookmarking,

Which sites did you use, how many and is it a problem listing the url's to those sites a long with a little information about those sites.


good content,

Good content will only work good when working in an area that is not over saturated.

Can you or some of the other member throughout ideas for someone wanting to get into something that is non-competitive
just to get ideas from other people.


and a search engine friendly site is the answer.

This should not matter because you yourself said we were looking at getting traffic without the search engines.

[janeth]

Janeth... on topic enough? :)

Yes, very good


(now if janeth made these claims there would be NO challenge by me!!!!) :)

Thank you very much

[janeth]

Wanna help me? Lets prove your point together. Oh, the site is a commerce site, not a blog or a feel good site.

Tempted?

Michael

Why not do this, get all the information from Bill have the people that want to do this work together set up a blog, write content, and use the bookmarking sites and less see how much traffic we can get from the site.

If anyone is interested I have a blog sitting now with nothing on it, it's an older domain name so this should help in the results we get.

All we need is an area to market a list of sites and people willing to write content. We can post our results here.

[janeth]

The blog is here (http://www.bloggin.info/) if Bill can guide us in what we need to do and if everyone wants to and someone has an AdSense account we can stick their ads on the site.

We have to exclude all the traffic that comes from this forum.

I also have another site here (http://www.successfulmowing.com/) we can do it with and it already has a topic and it's a new name.

What ever site everyone wants to use us fine with me, I'd just like to see it work and I'll post a link to the stats so everyone can see them.

[wiltonbiz]

In my opinion, the original post by bharzer is one of the best examples I have ever seen of a classic sales pitch. The product he is selling is himself.

His post is brilliantly written, even down to that last paragraph, with its "aw shucks, don't know how I stumbled on this pot of gold" tone.

His headline is a giveaway, "How To Launch A Site And Dominate Quickly" or words to that effect. I notice he did not give his "post" a more collegial headline like "recent interesting experience with new site."

He was going for the jugular, folks, and he pulled it off beautifully.

Now here's my challenge for Mr. Harzer -- pull off the same success, that is, bringing "thousands" of visitors to a brand new site within the same 3 or 4 days, this time, on the topic of "mortgage loans."

If you succeed, I will send $250 to the charity of your choice, verifiable by you.

And I challenge other readers of this thread to come up with some other terms or niches they would like to see this success repeated for.

WB

[bhartzer]

Which sites did you use, how many and is it a problem listing the url's
I already did: The Socializer. There's a list of the sites there and yes, I use that tool religiously.

I only mention search engine friendly because first comes conent, next comes social bookmarks and then comes the search engine traffic...to keep the traffic coming.

People in this thread keep mentioning blogs. I never said anything about a blog. I mentioned I use wordpress as a CMS.

[tmaker]

People in this thread keep mentioning blogs. I never said anything about a blog. I mentioned I use wordpress as a CMS.

In all due respect sir, your vagueness is becoming tiresome. The title of your article is:

How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly

Yet you're unwilling to provide specifics on how you did it, hence the frustration you're seeing here. Unless this thread is just a stunt to drive traffic to this site, may I suggest better wording in your titles in the future. This thread pulled me in as a first time poster and all I'm getting is a song and dance.

I really don't mean this to be rude or disrespectful. I provided stats and helpful information in my post about how I launched my most recent forum, and I titled it "How I," not "How To." If you're going to call it a how to then you're expected to give detailed info, not vague replies.

I don't really think I'm off base on this. Perhaps my perspective is just different because I'm new here, but not off base.

[wiltonbiz]

Putting your money where your mouth is is a time-honored way to support a position. So... how about answering the challenge, Bill?


Now here's my challenge for Mr. Harzer -- pull off the same success, that is, bringing "thousands" of visitors to a brand new site within the same 3 or 4 days, this time, on the topic of "mortgage loans."

If you succeed, I will send $250 to the charity of your choice, verifiable by you.

And I challenge other readers of this thread to come up with some other terms or niches they would like to see this success repeated for.

wb

[janeth]

There's a list of the sites there and yes, I use that tool religiously.

I can set it up to show the link after each post on my blog, then if someone wanted to bookmark the page they would click the button and be taken to a page with links to other sites and then have to go site by site to bookmark each site.

Is that correct?



People in this thread keep mentioning blogs. I never said anything about a blog. I mentioned I use wordpress as a CMS.

I'm sorry my bad but a blog should work better because it's able to ping the search engines.

[EArmand]

I agree with this...
DrTandem1 said:
What concerns me is not so much what he did or how he did it, but what the topic of the site is. Not divulging this leads me to suspect one of two things. Either it doesn't exist or it's something he is embarrassed to divulge.

I also agree with this...
Wiltonbiz said:
In my opinion, the original post by bharzer is one of the best examples I have ever seen of a classic sales pitch. The product he is selling is himself.


I also feel like this....
tmaker said:
In all due respect sir, your vagueness is becoming tiresome.

And because of Bill's notoriety as he mentioned here...

One might even go to Google and look for bhartzer. But again, you'd have to wade your way through 529,000 search results. ;)


I seriously doubt he will accept this...
Wiltonbiz said:
Putting your money where your mouth is is a time-honored way to support a position. So... how about answering the challenge, Bill?

[williamc]

I already did: The Socializer. There's a list of the sites there and yes, I use that tool religiously.

They actually were not the first, but seem to have picked up more momentum than the few others. Kudos to them.

Personally, instead of linking out to a third party, you could easily build the social stuff into your own site extremely easily.

Matter of fact, here is a freebie that does it quite well.




<?php

/*
Basically this script allows you to use a single link to social bookmark your
websites pages at a multitude of social bookmarking places.

Simply place links in your pages that call this as a new page or a popup, whatever
you like best. The format to call this script is:

socials.php?title=page_title&url=http://domain.com/page_url.html
*/

// set the exact url to the directory containing the icons
$imageurl = 'images';

// this does not need anything done to it
$title = urlencode($_REQUEST[title]);
$encurl = urlencode($_REQUEST[url]);

?>

<html>
<head>
<title>Bookmark Us</title>
<style>
#spacing { font-size:13px; }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<table width="600" id="spacing">
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/backflip.jpg Backflip (http://www.backflip.com/add_page_pop.ihtml?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/blinkbits.jpg BlinkBits (http://blinkbits.com/bookmarklets/save.php?v=1&source_url=http://ekstreme.com/socializer/&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/blinklist.jpg Blinklist (http://www.blinklist.com/index.php?Action=Blink/addblink.php&Title=<?php echo $title; ?>&Url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/blogmarks.jpg Blogmarks (http://blogmarks.net/my/new.php?mini=1&simple=1&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/buddymarks.jpg Buddymarks (http://buddymarks.com/add_bookmark.php?bookmark_title=<?php echo $title; ?>&bookmark_url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/citeulike.jpg CiteUlike (http://www.citeulike.org/posturl?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/delicious.jpgDel.icio.us (http://del.icio.us/post?v=2&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/diigo.gif Diigo (http://www.diigo.com/post?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/digg.jpg Digg (http://digg.com/submit?phase=3&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/dzone.jpg Dzone (http://www.dzone.com/links/add.html?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/feedmarker.jpg FeedMarker (http://www.feedmarker.com/admin.php?do=bookmarklet_mark&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/feedmelinks.jpg FeedMeLinks! (http://feedmelinks.com/categorize?from=toolbar&op=submit&name=<?php echo $title; ?>&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&version=0.7)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/furl.jpg Furl (http://www.furl.net/storeIt.jsp?t=<?php echo $title; ?>&u=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/givealink.jpg Give a Link (http://www.givealink.org/cgi-pub/bookmarklet/bookmarkletLogin.cgi?&uri=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/gravee.jpg Gravee (http://www.gravee.com/account/bookmarkpop?u=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&t=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/hyperlinkomatic.jpg Hyperlinkomatic (http://www.hyperlinkomatic.com/lm2/add.html?LinkTitle=<?php echo $title; ?>&LinkUrl=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/igooi.jpg Igooi (http://www.igooi.com/addnewitem.aspx?self=1&noui=yes&jump=close&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/kinja.jpg Kinja (http://kinja.com/id.knj?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/lilisto.jpg Lilisto (http://lister.lilisto.com/?t=<?php echo $title; ?>&l=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/linkagogo.jpg Linkagogo (http://www.linkagogo.com/go/AddNoPopup?title=<?php echo $title; ?>&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/linkroll.jpg Linkroll (http://www.linkroll.com/index.php?action=insertLink&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/looklater.jpg Looklater (http://api.looklater.com/bookmarks/save?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/magnolia.jpg Magnolia (http://ma.gnolia.com/bookmarklet/add?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/maple.jpg Maple (http://www.maple.nu/bookmarks/bookmarklet?bookmark[url]=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&bookmark[name]=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/netscape.gif Netscape (http://www.netscape.com/submit/?U=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&T=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/netvouz.jpg Netvouz (http://netvouz.com/action/submitBookmark?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>&popup=no)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/newsvine.jpg Newsvine (http://www.newsvine.com/_wine/save?u=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&h=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/rawsugar.jpg Raw Sugar (http://www.rawsugar.com/tagger/?turl=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&tttl=<?php echo $title; ?>&editorInitialized=1)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/reddit.jpg Reddit (http://reddit.com/submit?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/rojo.jpg Rojo (http://www.rojo.com/add-subscription/?resource=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/scuttle.jpg Scuttle (http://scuttle.org/bookmarks.php/?action=add&address=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/segnalo.jpg Segnalo (http://segnalo.com/post.html.php?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/shadows.jpg Shadows (http://www.shadows.com/shadows.aspx?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/simpy.jpg Simpy (http://simpy.com/simpy/LinkAdd.do?title=<?php echo $title; ?>&href=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&v=6&src=bookmarklet)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/spurl.jpgSpurl (http://www.spurl.net/spurl.php?v=3&title=<?php echo $title; ?>&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/squidoo.jpg Squidoo (http://www.squidoo.com/lensmaster/bookmark?<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/tagtooga.jpg Tagtooga (http://www.tagtooga.com/tapp/db.exe?c=jsEntryForm&b=fx&title=<?php echo $title; ?>&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/tailrank.jpg Tailrank (http://tailrank.com/share/?title=<?php echo $title; ?>&link_href=<?php echo $encurl; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/technorati.jpg Technorati (http://technorati.com/faves/?add=http://ekstreme.com/socializer/)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/unalog.jpg Unalog (http://unalog.com/my/stack/link?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/wink.jpg Wink (http://www.wink.com/_/tag?url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&doctitle=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/wists.jpg Wists (http://www.wists.com/r.php?r=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/yahoo.jpg Yahoo My Web (http://myweb2.search.yahoo.com/myresults/bookmarklet?u=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&t=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
<td><?php echo $imageurl; ?>/zurpy.jpg Zurpy (http://tag.zurpy.com/?box=1&url=<?php echo $encurl; ?>&title=<?php echo $title; ?>)</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>




and the icons: http://seofox.com/social_icons.zip

[DrTandem1]

In my opinion, the original post by bharzer is one of the best examples I have ever seen of a classic sales pitch. The product he is selling is himself.

His post is brilliantly written, even down to that last paragraph, with its "aw shucks, don't know how I stumbled on this pot of gold" tone.

His headline is a giveaway, "How To Launch A Site And Dominate Quickly" or words to that effect. I notice he did not give his "post" a more collegial headline like "recent interesting experience with new site."

He was going for the jugular, folks, and he pulled it off beautifully.

Now here's my challenge for Mr. Harzer -- pull off the same success, that is, bringing "thousands" of visitors to a brand new site within the same 3 or 4 days, this time, on the topic of "mortgage loans."

If you succeed, I will send $250 to the charity of your choice, verifiable by you.

And I challenge other readers of this thread to come up with some other terms or niches they would like to see this success repeated for.

WB

Yes, reading that first post reminded me of those pitches that says, "I got rich quickly and you can, too. Let me show you how." Of course, the pitch never mentions how or why, what, or where. Just when. That "when" is always "quickly."

I think it is perfectly natural to be from Missouri and say "Show me."

[DrTandem1]

People in this thread keep mentioning blogs. I never said anything about a blog. I mentioned I use wordpress as a CMS.

Wordpress' fame is for blogging. The CMS came later. You also mentioned pings which are a blogging tool. "Social bookmarks" are another blogging tool.

I think, if you're honest, you can answer simple questions such as the URL. Not to do so invites distrust. Otherwise, what is the point of the thread other than self-promotion?

[williamc]

Yes, reading that first post reminded me of those pitches that says, "I got rich quickly and you can, too. Let me show you how." Of course, the pitch never mentions how or why, what, or where. Just when. That "when" is always "quickly."

There is an old saying that goes something like Show a man exactly how to do something and he has accomplished nothing himself.

He gave a rundown by day of what he did (the what) and what happened, granted it was somewhat vague. The why is obvious, to see if it worked. The same as many of us do daily. Test new things (or old ones) to see if it works for us.


I think, if you're honest, you can answer simple questions such as the URL. Not to do so invites distrust. Otherwise, what is the point of the thread other than self-promotion?

Stop trying to get him to show you exactly how he did what he did with schoolgirl crap such as "If your honest you will show us how to duplicate it!"

He gave you the how and what. Social Bookmarking. Now go out and learn something.

[DrTandem1]

I never asked him how he did this or that. I simply want to know what the premise of the site is. Sorry, but the basic piece of information is missing. Unless he at least states what the basis of the content of his site is, there is nothing to be learned. There is a reason he does not include this or the URL. So far, the reasons he gives are nonsensical.

In other words, if it is content devoted to say the life cycle of the aphid, then I would be amazed that he received any visits. On the other hand, if it is a steamy sex site, I would be surprised, if he didn't get thousands of visits. So, the "what" matters more than the "how."

Personally, what he did is not that amazing nor proprietary other than the time-line. Again, if it's on the internet, it ain't proprietary. Also, if it is so revolutionary, then the rest of the content on SEO is really antiquated and I would expect that he would cease promoting it.

[greeneagle]

williamc,

Those are definitely the most profound statements in a post I have ever seen you make!

Ken

[williamc]

Thats the thing tho. The premise of the site itself does not matter to anyone in the least, as far as what he tried doing with the post, which in my opinion, was to show people they can get traffic from other sources than search engines alone. He also gave us tidbits of how he went about doing so.

What type of site it is does not have a damn thing to do with that, other than the differences between info sites and commerce sites being completely different when it comes to more natural methods of aquiring links easily.

[williamc]

Those are definitely the most profound statements in a post I have ever seen you make!

Thanks, I think. Make no mistake tho Ken, I am still waiting for the day to happen that I can say the same about you.

[DrTandem1]

Thats the thing tho. The premise of the site itself does not matter to anyone in the least, as far as what he tried doing with the post, which in my opinion, was to show people they can get traffic from other sources than search engines alone. He also gave us tidbits of how he went about doing so.

What type of site it is does not have a damn thing to do with that, other than the differences between info sites and commerce sites being completely different when it comes to more natural methods of aquiring links easily.

Perfect! If it has nothing to do with it, why not post it? By the way, many have asked the same question here.

[greeneagle]

LOL - I'll do my best William, maybe we'll get there someday!

Ken

[tmaker]

There is an old saying that goes something like Show a man exactly how to do something and he has accomplished nothing himself.

He gave a rundown by day of what he did (the what) and what happened, granted it was somewhat vague. The why is obvious, to see if it worked. The same as many of us do daily. Test new things (or old ones) to see if it works for us.

Stop trying to get him to show you exactly how he did what he did with schoolgirl crap such as "If your honest you will show us how to duplicate it!"

He gave you the how and what. Social Bookmarking. Now go out and learn something.

webproworld
The World's Forum for eBusiness Professionals
Join hundreds of eBusiness experts and peers to exchange information, advice, tips, and strategies on technology and business.

The description of this forum. Now based on this description, there's nothing out of place asking him for details. I'm new here though, so maybe I'm just missing the point. But I doubt it.

[williamc]

Perfect! If it has nothing to do with it, why not post it? By the way, many have asked the same question here.

The way sites posted here tend to get ripped apart to see what makes them work, then duplicated? It does not surprise me in the least he would not wish to post it.

It's funny. If it was the exact opposite story (bad luck out of the box) he posted, not one person would have asked the url.

Post a method about how a site exceeeds what was expected and everyone wants to see it immediately so they can duplicate it without having to actually learn anything.

He did not post about a website in his initial post. He posted a method of how he got traffic to a site. A method. He went on to explain the method somewhat.

Tmaker: I do not have a high horse thanks, I do however have a thing about people that want to hve everything handed to them on a silver platter so they don't actually have to do anything for themselves.

And to rip that soapbox from under your feet, I do not seem to see anything in the title that says we must provide a url when explaining a "method" used.

If you are not interested in his method, then great, go find something you are interested in. But quit belittling the man when he was actually trying to help some people understand how they can do something without SE's.

[timmathews.com]

Man, I can't believe I just wasted 20 minutes reading this. I was golden on page 1, 2 minutes in and knew something.
After seeing the tit for tat throughout the thread, I can't even remember what I read on page 1.
I am going to go back to page 1 and read the original post and be done with this thread.
I pity those that actually make it all the way through.

[DrTandem1]

Huh? How would divulging the site's premise violate your rigid standards of learning?

By the way, if someone asks me how to do something that I have done, guess what? I tell them. Since you are now so fond of old quotes, here's one:

Lead (and learn) by example.

[DrTandem1]

Man, I can't believe I just wasted 20 minutes reading this. I was golden on page 1, 2 minutes in and knew something.
After seeing the tit for tat throughout the thread, I can't even remember what I read on page 1.
I am going to go back to page 1 and read the original post and be done with this thread.
I pity those that actually make it all the way through.

Yes, two simple answers rather than pages of rationalization of why not would have been sufficient.

[southplatte]

People in this thread keep mentioning blogs. I never said anything about a blog. I mentioned I use wordpress as a CMS.

Wordpress' fame is for blogging. The CMS came later. You also mentioned pings which are a blogging tool. "Social bookmarks" are another blogging tool.


I, for some reason, have a reputation for expounding on some of the ways to succeed, like in this post here where I wrote and told everyone about how to optimize a blog.

And he wonders why eveyrone brings up the word BLOG All the tools he claims to use for this site are tools common to blogging. He even expounds upon it in a self rightous way, as I have quoted him on, about optimizing a, wait what is it, BLOG and to be honest he uses wordpress as one of the examples.

so let's make a blog, not call it a blog, tell everyone it is kicking butt all over the net in less than a week, but not give any specifics other than it's not a blog, but I used all the blogger's toolbox to generate interest, in a topic I will not even mention, but make you think and wonder about and guess at trying to figure out, because if I even mention it here it will hurt my "reputation" and you guys just want a cookie cutter system to mimic me with or worse surpass me with by making it better type of attidude sucks.


There is an old saying that goes something like Show a man exactly how to do something and he has accomplished nothing himself.

It actually is "give" a man a fish, he will eat for a day. "Teach" him how to fish and he will eat for life.

I don't think anyone asked for a specific "formula" to "copy". We have merely asked for verifiable proof of the claims in traffic, se position and such. Further, we have not asked for a cookie cutter to copy, but a "less" vague description of what he did.

I think Bill has expounded on it temendously -

Make content people want.
Rape social bookmarking for all it's worth while you can (because with that someone will see his site, and do it better, and he knows it will happen - and especially with web professionals, hence his "fear" of posting the URL even in a non-link format here)
And get your 10 minutes of bragging rights on WPW and not back it up because you don't want people to see it in 6 months all dried up to nothing.


To further quote
Now go out and learn something. I guess WPW is not about teaching others, or finding answers anymore, it's about shameless self-promotion from all angles. I knew there was a reason I had a 1 year lapse in posting here - it's all the "Look at me, look at me" attitudes that are about as substantiated as Jello in the back seat of a buick in the Arizona desert during August that started surfacing around about the time that Google became the most dominant topic on this forum that made me leave. I have since been coming back now and again only to find it has not chagned much. Not much at all.


Thats the thing tho. The premise of the site itself does not matter to anyone in the least

Of course the premise of the site does not, but the proof that what he claims to have done, in the time frame is what really matters to everyone here. Hence they ask for a URL to check it. To verify it. He has, thus far, refused to provide hard evidence proving his claims. I could give a rip about the URL - I want a screenshot of stats that proves traffic....and I don't want an alexa rank because that can be as manipulated as a 4 year old given candy. That's all I think many of us have asked for - proof of the results and he has not followed through.

A method. He went on to explain the method somewhat.
So, we have a vague "how-to" that has no evidenciary support to the claims made as to the end results. Why? Because he know it may not work for anything else ever again, and he knows it may work for but a short time.

On a side note I thought of a funny one liner joke:

Hmm...I love the words "niche", "marketing", "search engines" and "bull****" they all fit together and play very nicely, because if you have enough of a "niche" you will know how to "market" without using any "search engines" by spewing a bunch of "bull****".

[tmaker]

Tmaker: I do not have a high horse thanks, I do however have a thing about people that want to hve everything handed to them on a silver platter so they don't actually have to do anything for themselves.

And to rip that soapbox from under your feet, I do not seem to see anything in the title that says we must provide a url when explaining a "method" used.

If you are not interested in his method, then great, go find something you are interested in. But quit belittling the man when he was actually trying to help some people understand how they can do something without SE's.

I removed my high horse comment because I realized it was out of place and uncalled for. And I haven't belittled anyone here. I call it like I see it, and this is a song and dance.



Yes, two simple answers rather than pages of rationalization of why not would have been sufficient.

Amen brother.

webproworld
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[greeneagle]

Tim,

This is the best thread in a while - IMO we have some real strange "bedfellows" in both the protagonist and antagonist camps here!

My god William, what happened?, Did you wake up on the "right" side of the bed today?

LMAOROTF

Ken

[anandnadaar]

Well I dont know about the Actual posters website, but surely WPW has received huge response by his headline in just couple of days. And this thread is going so long without any reason.. we all like fools are just trying to convince the poster for his URL.. stop it and move on guys..

[DrTandem1]

Tim,

This is the best thread in a while - IMO we have some real strange "bedfellows" in both the protagonist and antagonist camps here!

My god William, what happened?, Did you wake up on the "right" side of the bed today?

LMAOROTF

Ken

To be clear, I am neither pro nor con on the original post. It just lacks the checks and balances needed to form an opinion either way. However, the more questions asked, the less forthcoming the author. The "pro" side is merely someone with a condescending axe to grind against the questioners. One handed him an olive branch which he quickly swatted back.

[tmaker]

Well I dont know about the Actual posters website, but surely WPW has received huge response by his headline in just couple of days. And this thread is going so long without any reason.. we all like fools are just trying to convince the poster for his URL.. stop it and move on guys..

Agreed. This being my first time exposure to WebProWorld I'm not impressed. "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly" reeks of a way to drive traffic to this site and cause controversy without providing actual content or helpful details. WPW, I mean this as helpful and constructive criticism. I hope you take it in the spirit intended.

Moving on.

[williamc]

Huh? How would divulging the site's premise violate your rigid standards of learning?

Maybe I was not succinct enough in a post but I surely do not see where I said anything like that. I said the sitespremise had absolutely nothing to do with the social bookmarking method he used, except in the cases of a sales site being harder to get links to than an info site.


Lead (and learn) by example.

Nice saying. However, if all you do is use what other people do (copying their example), you are not learning to do things for yourself, nor are you fit to be any kind of leader.


It actually is "give" a man a fish, he will eat for a day. "Teach" him how to fish and he will eat for life.

That's the one thanks. I do not read here often anymore so have not had to think of it lately :)


I don't think anyone asked for a specific "formula" to "copy". We have merely asked for verifiable proof of the claims in traffic, se position and such.

wel to be fair, he did not claim anything about SE positions, however as far as the traffic, yes that would be good to see maybe some awstats data to back it up. That would be completely understandable, however that is not what several on here are asking for. They want to see the SITE itself, which has no merit at all, as far backing up anything the initial posts made by bhartzer were about. The only reason for whinging about the url incessantly would be to be able to duplicate it.

[greeneagle]

DrTandem1,

In all respect, would you be so kind as to "play out" the "olive branch" you alluded to?

Thanks,
Ken

[williamc]

The "pro" side is merely someone with a condescending axe to grind against the questioners.

Not true at all. I actually use social bookmarking and have done so for a while. I know what bhartzer is talking about. You on the other hand, as usual, refuse to take what he gave you and put even a little effort into learning anything about it.

If you doubt his results so much, then by all means start testing yourself. It would be an amazing achievement and one you might actually learn from.


One handed him an olive branch which he quickly swatted back.

Correction: He has done so twice. But unlike some people who seem to go back and forth, I tend to stand my ground against innacuracy and misrepresentation.

Ken: I always wake up on the right side of the bed. My stance has always been for people to learn, which is preciely why I tend to rip your misleading and innacurate articles and posts apart.

However, bhartzer mde a post in which he attempted to share some actual worth here, not the gibbrish some of you post, yet several people seem to only want nothing more than to get the means to copy his success by any means needed including schoolgirl cracks. Not my cup of tea.

[greeneagle]

Come on guys:

It's Bill's thread, his livlihood, and he alone can choose to divulge more than he contracted for in opening this thread and meeting his expressed obligations.

I have absolutely no problem with whatever direction he takes this thread in!

Do you really think he would engage in material content purp in a topic that he would be embarrassed to present DrTandem1?

Ken

[williamc]

Do you really think he would engage in material content purp in a topic that he would be embarrassed to present DrTandem1?


Not to mention that if he "was" trying for some self-promotion, he would have given the damn URL in the first post to get even "more" traffic to the site fast. He posted his findings on social bookmarking to try to help people, and he did so without posting his own sites to do so. I see no fault in that whatever.

[greeneagle]

williamc:


"Not to mention that if he "was" trying for some self-promotion, he would have given the damn URL in the first post to get even "more" traffic to the site fast."

Bill's posts always have something to say. You are right (good call).

If I were in his position, the question would be:

Do I have enough "critical mass" behind me yet to feed the sharks?

Ken

[janeth]

I agree with DrTandem1

[greeneagle]

Oh!

Let's have some kind of fun here!

The "bedfellows" keep getting stranger.

Ken

[janeth]

This is from Phil Craven and I agree with what he's saying.


What bhartzer has done throughout the thread is indicate that it's perfectly ok for a great many thousands of people to know which site it is and visit it, that it's perfectly ok for any number of unkown website owners to know which site it is and link to it, that it's fine for search engines to find it, index it, and list it in the serps .... BUT it's not ok for any of you lot to know which site it is. That smells *very* fishy to me - very fishy indeed.

There can be a number of reasons for him keeping quiet about it:-

1. it didn't happen, and it's just a sales pitch

2. it's something illegal or very embarrassing

3. he's just milking it, and enjoying the attention

4+. etc. etc. etc.

Keep in mind that his 'method' is perfectly above board, and not spam, and that it isn't a client site where confidentiality might matter, or he would have said so instead of writing the 'I didn't want an off-topic link' nonsense.

[bwn]

Ok I am done with reading this.

First I am very surprised this forum would make this a front page report with the self serving advertisment in the first place and without any verification.

Here is the site it looks to have been just taken down. It was up an hour ago.

http://www.cisnewsreview.com/

So the one below is a different site in the same template..
http://www.crmnewsreview.com/

He is ripping press releases changing some text and calling this his content.

Pinging a bunch of stumble me stuff and generating traffic to it from them

This is to me more or less worthless traffic although he does have some Google finance links coming to it and I would consider this good.

Problem content is not his ripped from press releases.

What are you dominating? Stumble upon as far as I am concerned you are dominating nothing.

I see the value in the approach but not with ripped content and you posted the thread in a self serving manner..

"Moving to Dedicated server but will have to wait till you can answer all the request for advertisers" is a bunch of bull.

End of story.

[bhartzer]

It's a shame that this thread has more bickering than the real topic at hand, which is how to drive traffic to a site and dominate (your) niche quickly.

Again, let's talk about this:
- create content (this could be a page on your existing site)
- subscribe to delicious and bookmark it yourself. Then start participating in the social bookmarking communities. Try participating in Digg, reddit, furl, yahoo my web, netscape, delicious, buddymarks, and stumbleupon. Add sites that you find useful and start building up a profile of your own by adding friends and suggesting sites, pages, and bookmarking other stuff.

Quit worrying about submitting to directories, exchanging links with others, and participating in link farms.

Start participating in social bookmarking communities and the rewards will come--in the form of traffic to your site (real visitors) and then the search engine rankings will follow. This works just as well for new sites as it does for "old established sites".

You launch a new site and dominate it quickly by creating content and "telling your friends" about it so they, too, can look at your content and tell others about it.

You launch a new site and dominate your niche quickly getting humans to the site, not worrying about getting search engine bots to your site.

[williamc]

Janeth: Phil also said that a URL was not required for the explanation of the method, but that some traffic stats would be good to see.

We do not disagree there, and i have said as much in a number of posts.

If bwn is correct about the sites URL, then I can see why the poster might not want to share it, however that still has nothing to do with using the method fr traffic he outlined.

BWN: StumbleUpon traffic is good and bad. I have seen pure garbage to some sites (majority) and the same traffic converts at other sites. Use stumble traffic for artistic and geeky sites and it seems to do okay.

[southplatte]

Here are some quotes taken from what I shall assume are some of his web sites:


"Empowering webmasters with the knowledge you need to become rich and famous on the web. Or just rich."

Not many in this thread feel empowered at this point. Of course none have paid you for your services either.


"Bill, a respected search engine marketing expert, has gained the respect of other industry leaders and his clients by producing results."

I don't think anyone has seen verifiable results of claims yet in the authors original post.


"Bill created his first website back in 1996 to help promote his former database software business."

In the about Bill page he claims to have made his first website back in 1996.


"Since 1995, Bill Hartzer has been building quality websites."

Yet, on the home page he claims to have been making quality web sites since 1995.

I have already pointed out that he stated he took "30 minutes, or maybe like 15" working on content as a discrepancy in this area, right there is another discrepancy.

And still no proof of results to be seen.


Hartzer is a successful writer and search engine marketing expert, having practiced Search Engine Optimization since 1996. During the past fifteen years, some of his many accomplishments include:
* Search Engine Optimization Strategist, Intec Telecom Systems PLC (IntecBilling.com)
* Webmaster and Technical Writer, Intec Telecom Systems PLC (Bill created CarrierAccessBilling.com)
* Founder, Dallas/Fort Worth Search Engine Marketing Association (www.DFWSEM.org)
* Owner/Author, Corporate Website Marketing
* Administrator, Search Engine Forums (www.SearchEngineForums.com)
* Frequent Speaker, Search Engine Strategies Conferences
* Frequent Speaker, WebmasterWorld’s PubCon Search Engine and Internet Marketing Conferences

Timelines, timelines, timelines. 1996 to 2006 is only ten years Bill. None of the engagements you speak of in this list are 15 years old that I could find in my research, so where do the extra 5 years come into play?


Not to mention that if he "was" trying for some self-promotion, he would have given the damn URL in the first post to get even "more" traffic to the site fast. He posted his findings on social bookmarking to try to help people, and he did so without posting his own sites to do so. I see no fault in that whatever.

Not to burst your bubble, but read a few of the many sites he is on, and he is all about self-promotion.

I just want verfiable results to back up all the claims. I think the credibility issue, no matter what position Bill holds, is on the line now. There are too many little discrepancies I keep finding, dates, times, and so much "Bill Hartzer is an expert (insert seo, web master, marketer, pr person or other title here) on every site I found him on, I think it was nothing but a self promotion stunt, and I think he pulled it off almost flawlessly, while pulling wool over everyone's eyes. Just take a look at what we have all been played into. Pure marketing genius.

The funny thing is all the self promotion on all his web sites is written third-person. To quote Wyle. E. Coyote "Genius. Pure Genius."

Oh, and Bill, why couldn't you have simply stated in the first post what you just stated here:


- create content (this could be a page on your existing site)
- subscribe to delicious and bookmark it yourself. Then start participating in the social bookmarking communities. Try participating in Digg, reddit, furl, yahoo my web, netscape, delicious, buddymarks, and stumbleupon. Add sites that you find useful and start building up a profile of your own by adding friends and suggesting sites, pages, and bookmarking other stuff.

Quit worrying about submitting to directories, exchanging links with others, and participating in link farms.

Start participating in social bookmarking communities and the rewards will come--in the form of traffic to your site (real visitors) and then the search engine rankings will follow. This works just as well for new sites as it does for "old established sites".

You launch a new site and dominate it quickly by creating content and "telling your friends" about it so they, too, can look at your content and tell others about it.

You launch a new site and dominate your niche quickly getting humans to the site, not worrying about getting search engine bots to your site."

Then provided evidenciary support that NOT using search engines, directories link exchanges and such will still get awesome results. See you are suggesting something away from the conditioning of many web masters without proof of concept in results.

[wiltonbiz]

Talk about disingenuous!

bharzer wrote:


Again, let's talk about this:
- create content (this could be a page on your existing site)
- subscribe to delicious and bookmark it yourself. Then start participating in the social bookmarking communities. Try participating in Digg, reddit, furl, yahoo my web, netscape, delicious, buddymarks, and stumbleupon. Add sites that you find useful and start building up a profile of your own by adding friends and suggesting sites, pages, and bookmarking other stuff.

You did all this (with no particular pre-planning) in about 3 days, and started driving thousands of visitors to your site? I think it is most pertinent to ask what the niche or topic is here. I dare say that if I created a sexually teasing type site then you'd get thousands of horny guys clicking over to your site to see what was going on. Or, perhaps, if it was a site with a new band that everyone was raving about.

But, if I am your client and I am selling a new form of term life insurance product, can you do the same for me? If I am in a humdrum industry, can you do the same?

Forget the url. I'd love to know what the topic of your site is. It could make all the difference.

wb

[williamc]

Not to mention that if he "was" trying for some self-promotion, he would have given the damn URL in the first post to get even "more" traffic to the site fast. He posted his findings on social bookmarking to try to help people, and he did so without posting his own sites to do so. I see no fault in that whatever.

Not to burst your bubble, but read a few of the many sites he is on, and he is all about self-promotion.


Name me a few marketers that are not?

Besides, my post you referenced was only regarding this threads initial post.

[bhartzer]

But, if I am your client and I am selling a new form of term life insurance product
Sure. I'd gladly see what I can do. ;)

[southplatte]

Name me a few marketers that are not?

Besides, my post you referenced was only regarding this threads initial post.
Well, most marketers focus on their clients, not themselves - that is what they are paid to do is get results for clients, using methods that provide results that are "verifiable"

I agree with the fact that you reference just the initial post, but a true marketing expert would know that by posting as he did, it would create a flurry around who?? bhartzer. As I said, I see his genius in that.

[williamc]

If that was his intention, which I agree it could have been, It appears to be working well :P

[DrTandem1]

Ah, create content. We all know how to do that. We all know how to blog. We all know how to register domain names, unique and otherwise.

For those, the one, arguing that the URL is irrelevant, I would ask why finding a unique one with no previous registry history was so important to the author? If it was simply so that it would not carry baggage from some previous site, then now that it is registered why hide it?

If the content ("what the site's about) is also unimportant, then why did the author not only find it important to mention that he added content, using Wordpress as a CMS and then add even more content when a "friend" suddenly revealed that he was in the same industry?

When questions are asked of the "teacher" the teacher, which is the author's implied goal in the title, needs to do more than be silent and have others simply follow on a leap of faith.

The claims of self-promotion was not in the alleged mystery site, but in the author's current interests found in his signature.

One poster here previously claimed that I was spamming because I had a link with anchor text in my signature. I responded by removing the link, as it was not my intended purpose and to prove it, I backed my statement up with appropriate behavior.

My God, you'd think people had asked Coca Cola for their recipe. It's a URL, and as far as I am concerned, there is no credence to the claims, until it is known. Why? How about this:

I have opened a business. I found a name for it that has never been used! I stocked the shelves with a few things and within a couple of days, I had tons of customers visiting my store. I spread the word, but not through the usual channels, and before long I had a bunch of people advertising my store for me.

I then spoke to friend and low and behold he was in the same business! He shared some ideas about the business, so I stocked my shelves with a couple more items and business is better than ever. By the way, I used oak shelves to arrange my items.

Where is my store? I can't tell you! What do I sell? I can't tell you. I will tell you that you can do it too!

Give me a break.

[greeneagle]

southplatte:


"Well, most marketers focus on their clients, not themselves - that is what they are paid to do is get results for clients, using methods that provide results that are "verifiable""

Let's get a couple things straight as the sharks pool here:

1) It has been my observance that Bill always posts with intent to educate.

2) My Marketing 102 book definitely doesn't read the same as yours southplatte. You can absolutely market all clients at once by promoting yourself, when you command the game well!

Isn't that right Janeth?

Ken

[greeneagle]

DrTandem1, I couldn't read past your first statement:


"Ah, create content. We all know how to do that."

Do we really know how to create content? What % do you suppose even add relevant dynamic content to their dieing static sites these days?

Come on back and tell me Doc why so many are cast in to "Supplemental Hell" still!

How long now have we been dealing with that issue alone here?

Ken

[DrTandem1]

DRTandem1, I couldn't read past your first statement:


"Ah, create content. We all know how to do that."

Do we really know how to create content? What % do you suppose even add relevant dynamic content to their dieing static sites these days?

Come on back and tell me Doc why so many are cast in to "Supplemental Hell" still!

How long now have we been dealing with that issue here now?

Ken

I think content and it's production is irrelevant to this topic. That point the author stressed is how quickly he added content and used a CMS to do so. I think the theme of the content in this case is extremely important and he refuses to divulge it.

By the way, fresh content is irrelevant to rankings, but not to a site's success with its visitors.

[greeneagle]

Doc:


"I think content and it's production is irrelevant to this topic. That point the author stressed is how quickly he added content and used a CMS to do so."

I can't recall ever seeing two more contradictory statements in one breath. I am getting older though, my memory is probably failing me.

Ken

[williamc]

Fresh content is irrelevant to rankings?

You may wish to qualify that as fresh content can gain rankings for keywords you never had before.

If you meant that fresh content was irrelevant to rankings for existing keywords or pages that were already there, then I would agree with that.

Ken: Nowadays Supplmental Hell seems to have more to do with links, than content or methods, or anything else.

[janeth]

2) My Marketing 102 book definitely doesn't read the same as yours southplatte. You can absolutely market all clients at once by promoting yourself, when you command the game well!

Isn't that right Janeth?

Ken

Not it's not correct, if someone is promoting my business I want them promoting my business not themselves and a link back to me from their site.

I'm surprised you would make such a statement being in marketing and all.

[greeneagle]

williamc:


"Ken: Nowadays Supplmental Hell seems to have more to do with links, than content or methods, or anything else."

Now that's a topic for another thread. I don't see that at all!

Ken

[southplatte]

southplatte:


"Well, most marketers focus on their clients, not themselves - that is what they are paid to do is get results for clients, using methods that provide results that are "verifiable""

Let's get a couple things straight as the sharks pool here:

1) It has been my observance that Bill always posts with intent to educate.

2) My Marketing 102 book definitely doesn't read the same as yours southplatte. You can absolutely market all clients at once by promoting yourself, when you command the game well!

Isn't that right Janeth?

Ken

Ken, he has not provided verifiable results of non-standard methods. In any 101, 102 or 430 level book, no evidenciary support means the book doens't include that topic or the book is not written. And without the results, many on here will not "risk" his technique to find out. It's too much like playing Russian Ruoulette with a fully loaded pistol.

And yes, you can promote all clients by promoting yourself as marketing 102 would probably teach in a great school that teaches corporate world ideologies, but the original post is not subscribing to corporate ideologies - however the original post was about "HIS" site not a client or clients or did it ever mention anything about them, and now with no verifiable results of what he did for "HIMSELF", I question what exactly he can do for a client.

In terms of sharks pooling and getting things straight.

A straight answer on the results is all I am requesting and have been for a while. In my mind that is not too much to ask of a professional of his level, who knows 100% verifiable results speak for themselves.

In terms of educating - everyone falters now and again, and I don't feel this was as educating as some of the other posts I have read of his.

As a side note:

Bill posted this (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=65418&highlight=) when he couldn't use CVS.com using a beta of IE7 Now he refuses to allow people to know about his site (more specific only those on here who have not went searching for it)??? Hypocracy is the term I believe should be used for that one.

Even though the URL is not as important as the methods described are, by saying that the URL, the Content, and the site itself are not important or necessary, goes against everything that Web Marketing 102 teaches Ken. Url selection, content, and links all play a vital role according to what we have been conditioned on for too long. That is the uproar is the conditioning aspect has been removed, but minus evidence to support why.

And to back that up, just read the exchange with Doc, you and williamc - about "fresh" content. If the original poster claims that any content would work (or by saying the content and url were not important) why even have that conversation as it would be irrelevant, would it not?

[greeneagle]

Let's cut the personal attacks on Bill or any other poster as far as that goes.

The fact is, is this whole damn thread is all about providing dynamic relative content appropiately through a popular CMS and marketing it with an edge.

How come so many got lost?

Ken

[williamc]

williamc:


"Ken: Nowadays Supplmental Hell seems to have more to do with links, than content or methods, or anything else."

Now that's a topic for another thread. I don't see that at all!

Ken

Yeh, but you do not get out much, so I really can't blame you there.

Actually we discussed it a while back in some detail. I will be happy to find the thread later. MattC has also said things which if I recall, led to the discussion in the first place.

[bwn]

Let's cut the personal attacks on Bill or any other poster as far as that goes.

The fact is, is this whole damn thread is all about providing dynamic relative content appropiately through a popular CMS and marketing it with an edge.

How come so many got lost?

Ken

Ken the problem isn't popular CMS and marketing tips but using content that is ripped and altered a little from other sources.

We all have a problem with content getting ripped saying I did this and that is x days is wonderful, if it were his content.

To produce 1000's of hits in a couple of days is great but do I create my content or use yours to do this is my issue with this whole post.

He stated "he" built the content in what a couple hours yea I see how so it is unimportant how we get content as long as we get hits.

Sorry my SEO is not like that is Yours?

PS why he continues to remove the sites in another matter

hmm could be a copyright issue.

Here is another see how long it last and yes it is in the same format.

The topic he is dominating is on this one is mortage news reviews.
http://www.mortgagenewsreview.com/

The Topic of the web site he Bill wrote about in his opening thread.

CIS Customer Information Systems News Review

I like his idea I don't like the idea of he put up a site ripped a bunch of press releases pinged a bunch of social sites and wants to post about his new way, Spammers have been doing this a long time.

Sorry for the negativity but this is not SEO as I do it.

Bill create your own content do it and it will take a wee bit longer than what you have posted.

[greeneagle]

william,

Like I said that's a topic for another thread.

In the other "Supplemental" threads, it was prety fresh and half the participants were bleeding through the gills.

We really haven't danced in that playground since all the rules were finalized - IMO.

What I am seeing mostly there now is relative duplicate content issues, as incidental as they may be, especially for store owners and other dynamic content purveyors that haven't fully understood the whole content to code ratio issue and how it relates between pages.

Ken

[williamc]

I like his idea I don't like the idea of he put up a site ripped a bunch of press releases pinged a bunch of social sites and wants to post about his new way

Personally, If I distribute a press release, I want it out there on as many places as possible. I do not feel it is possible to have any copyright issues with press releases, with a few exceptions, such as the release not being distributed except on the companies own site, and not giving proper due to the company.

Most press releases that are distributed thru places like http://www.prweb.com are "meant" to be carried by anyone who wishes to carry them.

That is not "ripping" content. It is merely using content that was meant to be used in that way.

I will qualify the above by saying that it should be used for relevent reasons.


Spammers have been doing this a long time.

I will grant you that it has been abused wholesale. But that does not negate the uses carrying news releases has for real websites either.

[joer80]

PS why he continues to remove the sites is another matter

hmm could be a copyright issue.

Here is another see how long it last and yes it is in the same format.

The topic he is dominating is on this one is mortage news reviews.
http://www.mortgagenewsreview.com/

Bill create your own content do it and it will take a wee bit longer than what you have posted.

Ouch.

[janeth]

I'm not interested in where he got his content or how he got it.

I'm more interested in;

1.Can this be used to market a real website
2.How much traffic can you expect to get
3.Will the traffic convert
4.How long does it take

I'm not the Internet police and have no desire to be, I do however have a desire to make money online. I'm setting up accounts now and studying each site a little to get an understanding of how they work.

Once I do that I'll be using this method on 5 different sites and will have the stats in view for everyone to see.

If anyone wants to post advice or ideas in doing this I would love to hear them.

[joer80]

I do not feel it is possible to have any copyright issues with press releases, with a few exceptions, such as the release not being distributed except on the companies own site, and not giving proper due to the company.

Most press releases that are distributed thru places like http://www.prweb.com are "meant" to be carried by anyone who wishes to carry them.


I will grant you that it has been abused wholesale. But that does not negate the uses carrying news releases has for real websites either.

Yep, you cant change the words in a press release though, that is misleading.

[williamc]

If anyone wants to post advice or ideas in doing this I would love to hear them.

I posted a mini-tutorial on the other site as a really really rough outline. Feel free to rip it apart, Janeth.

[southplatte]

bwn - you have a good point.

If those are his sites, then there is one litte problem - most news site forbid you from posting their content to your site. You can include a link, or a short synopsis most times, but very rarely can you just copy in the entire story. One post was copyright Rueters. I doubt that was sent through a PR system such as prweb.com.

Again, credibility is called into issue. No personal attacks, just reuqests for accurate information about what exactly he taught the forum is good to do. Used jacked content to get mass traffic?

However bwn - Bill never called it SEO so I disagree on the statement of
Sorry my SEO is not like that is Yours?


Once I do that I'll be using this method on 5 different sites and will have the stats in view for everyone to see.

THANK-YOU! Stats for proof of the ideas brought forth.

[bwn]

Very true william except the content has been alterd and the links are either removed or dead.

The whole reason for a press release is what information about your site if it has been removed well sorry it is useless to you then.

janeth "As far as I don't care were the content came from" I have a problem with that anyone in SEO should have morals enough to care if you don't then you need to examine your work.

I went to your website janeth and this is what you have to say about building content I failed to see anything goes.

"It takes a lot of work to build a content rich website, but it’s the first step in building a sticky site"




I like his idea I don't like the idea of he put up a site ripped a bunch of press releases pinged a bunch of social sites and wants to post about his new way

Personally, If I distribute a press release, I want it out there on as many places as possible. I do not feel it is possible to have any copyright issues with press releases, with a few exceptions, such as the release not being distributed except on the companies own site, and not giving proper due to the company.

Most press releases that are distributed thru places like http://www.prweb.com are "meant" to be carried by anyone who wishes to carry them.

That is not "ripping" content. It is merely using content that was meant to be used in that way.

I will qualify the above by saying that it should be used for relevent reasons.


Spammers have been doing this a long time.

I will grant you that it has been abused wholesale. But that does not negate the uses carrying news releases has for real websites either.

[joer80]

If those are his sites

THANK-YOU! Stats for proof of the ideas brought forth.

If you follow his advice and search for his username on google you can see they are his sites. or do a whois or ping. :)

PS. I am interested in the stats that Janeth comes up with to put these methods to a test with some substance. I am sure we can use this ethically. See my earlier post. Create a site, and add a blog to it. Then ping and socialize. :) Thats it folks. :)

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

I wouldn't even think about walking through almost any door anymore without PHP and dynamic relative content on my shoulder.

I have 5 dogs, and just for practice, I "wag them all by the tail"... and these beastie boys are all uncut 70-80lb big bad boys with spiked collars, except one!

Unfortunately, like some here, 3 just have "nubs". We are talking Rottweilers and Boxers after all.

One has a long tail though and we have a special game called “helicopter”.

Don’t take me too serious, anyone here should know that “armchairvet” and I have a real thing for animals!

But I do have one really old “B____ ” Beagle that I picked up in a country store’s parking lot just before she became a “grease spot” on an adjacent highway. We are providing her a retirement home. No one ever wags her by the tail, by god! She'll take your arm off!

How many sites and or clients can you describe that way?

LOL
Ken

[YOUTHERE1.com]

The more pages I read on this thread (7 and counting), the less interested I am in finding out the actual URL.

Here's why:

You cannot simply call up "National Geographic" and claim you have captured the elusive "Lochness Monster", pull out your diary and go into some detail about how you went about it and then hang up - without providing solid facts and proof - try it sometime.

Let's cut through the smoke and mirrors and see what "bhartzer" said he actually did:

Day 1 - bought domain, updated nameservers, set up domain / hosting.

Day 2 - Used Wordpress as his CMS, added content, edited his template, set up pinging.

Day 3 - added content / outgoing links, used social bookmarking.

Day 4 - did nothing.

Day 5 - added content, used social bookmarking.

Day 6 - did nothing (apart from check stats).

Day 7 - added an email newsletter (checked stats again).

Day 10 - did nothing.


There is absolutely nothing in his "10-day diary" that is ground-breaking or anything we have not heard / tried before. Let's be clear about that.

Keep in mind, by his own admission, he took a total of 3 days off (no actual work towards the site) - hence in only 7 days flat he claims to have generated thousands of hits, apparently formed his own "brand" in his particular industry and not to mention captured 80 backlinks in the process!

So why his "instant" success? Great content? No. Link building? No (he admits having done "no link building whatsoever".

So what is the answer then?

Sadly, at this point, whether he actually accomplished what he claimed he has or not, it does not even matter because at the end of the day he provides no evidence of having captured that elusive "Lochness Monster".

I'm quite sure this thread will go on for some time to come.

[DrTandem1]

Doc:


"I think content and it's production is irrelevant to this topic. That point the author stressed is how quickly he added content and used a CMS to do so."

I can't recall ever seeing two more contradictory statements in one breath. I am getting older though, my memory is probably failing me.

Ken

Nothing contradictory at all. I believe the thrust of his original post was the delivery/notification of his content. Obviously, if no one is interested in the content, no one will come/return. What is relevant is that the technique of delivery and notification (pings) are the operatives here.

He mentions niche, so I assume it's a specialized interest of a larger, overall area of interest. Therefore, the content already exists elsewhere. Consequently, the time factor (7 days, same as Genesis, "coincidentally") is also important to him.

One pro-arguer has stated that the content and URL are irrelevant. Okay, I'll stipulate that. Yet, since it is "irrelevant," then what is the harm in divulging it? Thus we have a conflicting argument within the statement.

Either it's important or it's irrelevant. You can't have it both ways and sustain the premise of the argument. So which is it? By the way, I am speaking within the context of the thread and the mystery meat site, not web sites as a whole.

I think others already hit the nail on the head. The thread has really nothing to do with "how to" as it does with creating curiosity about the author by the author.

[janeth]

janeth "As far as I don't care were the content came from" I have a problem with that anyone in SEO should have morals enough to care if you don't then you need to examine your work.

I went to your website janeth and this is what you have to say about building content I failed to see anything goes.

"It takes a lot of work to build a content rich website, but it’s the first step in building a sticky site"

I don't see how a 200 post about where Bill got is content is going to help me out.

Maybe you see some benefits in such a thread. Have at it and I'll stay out of your way.

[DrTandem1]

The more pages I read on this thread (7 and counting), the less interested I am in finding out the actual URL.

Here's why:

You cannot simply call up "National Geographic" and claim you have captured the elusive "Lochness Monster", pull out your diary and go into some detail about how you went about it and then hang up - without providing solid facts and proof - try it sometime.

Let's cut through the smoke and mirrors and see what "bhartzer" said he actually did:

Day 1 - bought domain, updated nameservers, set up domain / hosting.

Day 2 - Used Wordpress as his CMS, added content, edited his template, set up pinging.

Day 3 - added content / outgoing links, used social bookmarking.

Day 4 - did nothing.

Day 5 - added content, used social bookmarking.

Day 6 - did nothing (apart from check stats).

Day 7 - added an email newsletter (checked stats again).

Day 10 - did nothing.


There is absolutely nothing in his "10-day diary" that is ground-breaking or anything we have not heard / tried before. Let's be clear about that.

Keep in mind, by his own admission, he took a total of 3 days off (no actual work towards the site) - hence in only 7 days flat he claims to have generated thousands of hits, apparently formed his own "brand" in his particular industry and not to mention captured 80 backlinks in the process!

So why his "instant" success? Great content? No. Link building? No (he admits having done "no link building whatsoever".

So what is the answer then?

Sadly, at this point, whether he actually accomplished what he claimed he has or not, it does not even matter because at the end of the day he provides no evidence of having captured that elusive "Lochness Monster".

I'm quite sure this thread will go on for some time to come.

Exactly. I think we did our darndest to give him the opportunity to elaborate on whatever he was trying to say.

[joer80]

Best thing I have learned from this, so far, is Search Engine Experts are, by nature, a very down to earth, fact based, harsh and ruthless people! :)

[williamc]

Best thing I have learned from this, so far, is Search Engine Experts are, by nature, a very down to earth, fact based, harsh and ruthless people! :)

I don't seem to see DannyS in this thread. Calling 80% of the posters here a search engine expert is truly funny.

[greeneagle]

LOL william. I guess DannyS's just don't walk through every door every day. Maybe he's a very busy boy.

What does his or anyone elese's "roundabouts" have to do with new site launches using dynamically generated contet from a popular CMS - blown out to the max with smart marketing?

I can't think of any aspect here where we haven't been engaged in recent threads including a discussion about "Socializer", or even best proposed practices these days?

Ken

[janeth]

Since this thread has gotten way off topic I started a new one here (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=334535#334535) and I'm hoping to get some help because this is all new to me.

I'm getting the sites ready and I'm going to sign up on all the sites today.

I will sleep as little as I can for the next 7 days and we will see were things end up.

I'll post everything I do step by step so correct the wrong steps please.

[williamc]

What does his or anyone elese's "roundabouts" have to do with new site launches using dynamically generated contet from a popular CMS

I do not recall having said or even intimated that it had anything to do with those. That was actually said in reply to joer's comment about "search engine experts".

[joer80]

What does his or anyone elese's "roundabouts" have to do with new site launches using dynamically generated contet from a popular CMS

I do not recall having said or even intimated that it had anything to do with those. That was actually said in reply to joer's comment about "search engine experts".

Which to me made my point even more accurate! haha. But i do agree, "Search Engine Experts" with quotes may be the way to go. :)

[greeneagle]

Janeth:


"Since this thread has gotten way off topic I started a new one here and I'm hoping to get some help because this is all new to me.

I'm getting the sites ready and I'm going to sign up on all the sites today.

I will sleep as little as I can for the next 7 days and we will see were things end up.

I'll post everything I do step by step so correct the wrong steps please."

I must say Janeth, that has to be absolutely the most shameless play I have ever seen to steal a thread for self promotion!

How about proposing new sites with new URLs (like was discussed here) instead of your existing sites?

You are right, this thread is winding down, but any one of us here can take existing sites and follow the map Bill laid out.

That's what this thread was about, wasn't it?

LOL

Ken

[janeth]

Janeth:

[quote]"Since this thread has gotten way off topic I started a new one here and I'm hoping to get some help because this is all new to me.

I'm getting the sites ready and I'm going to sign up on all the sites today.

I will sleep as little as I can for the next 7 days and we will see were things end up.

I'll post everything I do step by step so correct the wrong steps please."



I must say Janeth, that has to be absolutely the most shameless play I have ever seen to steal a thread for self promotion!

Self promotion and stealing a thread?

First this thread as turned into nothing but attacks on Bill and as a mod. you should have kept in on topic but instead ended up being one of the biggest people taking it off topic.

I'm doing some testing for myself and others but if you don't want the thread on this forum then lock it and I and others that would like to see the effects of marketing this way will go else where with our testing.

According to Bill you can get 1,000's of visitors from marketing this way so what is letting a couple forum members see how it works.



How about proposing new sites with new URLs (like was discussed here) instead of your existing sites?

One is a brand new site and name but I have an idea how about you set up the sites and take over the thread or just lock it.



You are right, this thread is winding down, but any one of us here can take existing sites and follow the map Bill laid out.

That's what this thread was about, wasn't it?

LOL

Ken

Do what you want Ken, I'll take my testing else where.

[langsor]

I got through page 6 before I couldn't stand it any more, skimmed over page 7 and got most of page 8...

Thank you janeth for introducing a meaningful test, from the original potentially very intersting topic.

You seem to be one of the few who could stand to stay out of the sophomoric (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophomoric) flame wars this post degenerated into. I look forward to following your new thread (moderators allowing) and thank you for putting forth the effort for all of our enlightenment on the subject.

If your thread does get locked, since I'm just now (finally) delving into wordpress, and have a spotless new domain name of my own waiting for a purpose, I guess I will have to do it myself. But would rather focus on what is already heaped on my plate.

Finally, let me know if I can help in any way... not sure what that would be, since you are an acomplished web designer in you own right.


Peace,


Kevin

[bhartzer]

this thread is winding down
Actually, I think it's just beginning. If you get past all the flaming going on and talk about the subject at hand, we really haven't talked (much) about how to launch a new site and get meaningful traffic.

Matt Drudge originally broke the Monica Lewinsky story and got traffic to his new site. Now, several years later, yesterday he hit an all-time record of 25.1 million pageviews.

I mention Drudge because that's sometimes what it takes--content that draws people to a site and then the site keeps them there, coming back. Doesn't matter if it's a new site, if people find out about it they will come (that's where social bookmarking comes into play) and the search engine rankings will follow.

[southplatte]

Actually, I think it's just beginning. If you get past all the flaming going on and talk about the subject at hand, we really haven't talked (much) about how to launch a new site and get meaningful traffic.

I will agree that the subject at hand has not been discussed much. Something you could have, but chose not to, rectify in about the 3rd or 4th post.

I ask you again to rectify it, by providing simple proof to substantiate your claims, as I have asked for several times, as have others. You don't need to give secrets away to provide that proof, nor do you need to divlulge any URL if you do not want to. You never needed to.

What has been termed flaming is the resultant of a misleading subject line, followed by misleading, unsubstantiated claims that have been refuted without any evidence by yourself several times now, yet you still have yet to "discuss" the topic yourself.

Janeth - If you are in fact guilty of self-promotion - I would gladly overlook it, and ask the mods and everyone else to do so as well this ONE time - just so we could verify if there is any truth in bhartzers claims when implemented with the limited "how to" information he posted.

Otherwise, I think the entire thread should be removed due to false information being posted and no verification of claims ever made, and the resulting "flaming" discussion that reqeusted he put his stats where his mouth is.

[janeth]

I was under the understanding that Ken wanted to take over doing the testing, which is fine with me, even though I'll continue them myself as well.

I've gone through and registered with all the sites and can tell you already that it was a time consuming job and now I'll be going through to try and study and understand the sites so I can get started.

I've already got the stats live on all the blogs and I'm making a good many post on ranked1.net as I do my testing.

I'm about to try and start doing the bookmarking tonight but at this time it does not look like something that can be done in a couple minutes.

Also from my understanding the sites are somewhat like forums in that they have their own communities and if this is the case it would seem that you would also need to make a name for yourself on each site to get the full benefit of the site.

Can you imagine trying to do something like this as a new member on 44 different sites and trying to remain part of a community on that many sites?

I also find it funny that Ken and Bhartzer seem to be totally against us testing this, they would rather go on for another 20 pages of talking about nothing.

If it works I want to use it if it doesn't I want to move on, if that is self-promoting then I guess I'm self-promoting because I'm finished talking and have started testing.

If this group is totaly against testing the sites then email me and I'll let you know where the test results can be seen.

[AxiomTrend]

Hi Bill, Great tips in regards to the Social Bookmarking. would you be willing to give a little more detail about doing the "seo tweaks" you mentioned?


...I edited the template with my typical “seo tweaks” like search engine friendly URLs and added my custom “ping list” of services to ping whenever I added content to the site.

If I were to use wordpress trying to accomplish what you have done, what "seo tweaks" specifically would I need to make, how, and where do I make them?

e.g. are these keyword tweaks, if so where and how? Would it be in the meta tags, the page content its self?... Keywords as link text, etc.?

And by search engine friendly URL's do you mean keywords in the URL as URL extension file name? And can you give an example of a search engine friendly URL?

And then in regards to the Social Bookmarking sites, I assume you just go to the site you mentioned, http://ekstreme.com/socializer/, and do you then submit the individual URL of each page of content?

These are questions that came up in my mind that I think perhaps will answer a lot of other people's thirst here too without seeing the domain you did this with.

Thanks in advance for your time on this topic Bill!!

Chad

[gaszer]

I was just wondering what was happening in the similar thread (http://www.webmasterworld.com/supporters/3144316.htm) over at Webmasterworld, as it seems to have been posted there as well... but you have to be a supporter to read it.

[netndx]

I think I found one of your urls. It looks simple enough, However seems to me that the updates are more than a few minutes of work a day. Especially when you multiply that across all of sites you are creating at the level of niche.

Unless you are automating the updates somehow ;)

The automated bookmarking part helps as well

[janeth]

I'm going to keep submitting sites and working with this but from what I've seen so far it seems to be a very disappointing waste of time.

[greeneagle]

Janeth:


"I was under the understanding that Ken wanted to take over doing the testing, which is fine with me, even though I'll continue them myself as well."

WOW, I don't think I have ever been a proponent of any (another and another and another) meaningless so called test here. Maybe you can help my memory though, like I said I am getting older!

LOL

Ken

[williamc]

WOW, I don't think I have ever been a proponent of any (another and another and another) meaningless so called test here.

Okay, I finally have to agree with Ken here. He has never even remotely tried to participate in any real testing. He has always just regurgitated what the rest of our findings, or he innacurately spouts stuff.

[greeneagle]

welcome aboard gaszer, by george you caught us in a fenzy here.

If someone "copycatted" over there, that's both a compliment to WPW and may be shame for someone trying to play out a marketing angle from here. It just depends on who did what, when and why over there.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what happens over there or in other shadows here.

And when I say "other shadows" some of you here know specificly what forum I am referring to.

"Dark Shadows", wasn't that an old TV series?

Are we having fun here yet?

Ken

[loumetcalf]

I'm a reasonably regular reader here, but do not post often. I'm such a neophyte that answers are given before I think of the questions. What I do find here is that there are an awful lot of people spending an inordinate amount of time spinning themselves up... time which could be better spent working whatever brand of "traffic magic" you believe in.

Don't believe Bill? Skip the thread. I doubt you'll hurt his feelings. Me? I'm taking this 1) Content (is King), 2) Social Networking and 3) Bot-baiting) and pressing ahead. At least this way I will have a feeling that I've done no harm.

[greeneagle]

Welcome loumetcalf,

We always have room for another voice here.

Ken

[williamc]

And when I say "other shadows" some of you here know specificly what forum I am referring to.

Yes, Ken, we know which forum you mean. The one where if you go over there and search for the current topics for today here, you find they have already been discussed in detail there a while back. :)

That place of "mad hatters" who waste our time testing every possible theory to see if it actually works or does not work, has any merit, or is yet another Ken'ism :)

Then again, we can rank for quite a bit more competitive terms than "rotating choking sleeve" :)

http://4retards.com/greeneagle/6.gif

[greeneagle]

William,

I just don't know what to say if you are still "choking" over that. I just checked, but this isn't a ""sandbox" (http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=56893) thread.

Let me tell you a short story just after recommending Claritin D for your scratchy throat, it's not prescription, but you have to ID yourself here to make sure you are not buying base for Meth development.

Not long ago I saw a Texas Coral Snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_snake) crawling right behind my back fence. You bet I dawned some boots and went "trouncing around", unfortunately I lost it in the fallen leaves and brush.

Come to find out, I was simply wasting my time there. I have actually seen my chickens take snakes out of the front cactus bed as a prized treasure, and these 3 prized "manx" kittens are quickly growing to be monsters that will restructure the neighborhood's population of cats.

There is a branch of science and engineering that models itself after nature - Test this my friend...

I know that I have 3 big bad ass manx kittens that awaken me all night long and it agrivates the hell out of me sometimes.

I also have coral snakes, copperheads and water moccasins I want to keep out of my yard.

The free ranged chickens just don't do the job by themselves.

What the hell are these tests all about and just how many variables do they really take into account?

I haven't seen one yet that was really difinitive!

Ken

[southplatte]

Unless you are automating the updates somehow ;)

Ya think? Simple enough how he is getting the content.

[janeth]

WOW, I don't think I have ever been a proponent of any (another and another and another) meaningless so called test here. Maybe you can help my memory though, like I said I am getting older!

LOL

Ken

Seems funny that someone that claims to be an SEO would see testing as being meanigless.

[greeneagle]

Some tests are just not necessary Janeth.

Ken

[janeth]

Some tests are just not necessary Janeth.

Ken

Glad you feel that way Ken, you have no reason to post in my new thread and that has to be the best news I've gotten all week.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

Great Marketers are "Spin Artists" also, and I have always acknowledged your prowess there!

Have I not?

Ken

[janeth]

You assume that my interest in a topic is more then just that, when in fact I'm constantly looking for new ways to market my business. I test and test and test until I get the results I'm looking for or come to the conclusion that something is not worth the time or effort to continue.

When I come to a forum and see misleading information on a topic I've spent a lot of time on, I attempt to correct the information for people like myself who are looking to make a living online. To spread misinformation in an attempt to market ones self is just wrong.

I live in a third world country and unlike most others do not have the option of advertising off line, so I make my total living online, I don't have family that can help me, it's the opposite, I help most of them and they rely on me as do over 20 full time employees.

When I see information placed on forums as a way to get thousands of visitors in days with very little work I'm skeptical but see the potential in what I could do with that traffic. So I test and test to see what I can do with that traffic or if it's even possible to get the traffic that the poster claims.

You judge me when you don't even know me or the reasons behind my post.

[greeneagle]

Janeth,

It was a complement, take it for what it was.

In all sincerity, I fully respect what you have built there.

LOL

Ken

[williamc]

You judge me when you don't even know me or the reasons behind my post.

People who can not actually "do" are always judging those who can hun. It makes them somehow feel better about themseves.

Of course Ken does not believe in testing, he is not an SEO. He is a web designer who plays at optimization. The fact that he sells SEO services to clients says even more about him.

[greeneagle]

Come on William we should all know in this game by now, some things just don't need to be tested, because they already have.

Bill would never step on stage and present anything that hadn't been duly tested.

Let's agree to cut the noise in this thread down to a "dull roar" OK!

Ken

[williamc]

Actually Ken, with every major algo change, and especially a large infrastructure change, things need to be re-tested somewhat to make sure they do in fact still work or not. Taking things for granted in this industry is a major disservice to a client and possibly can get them penalized.

[greeneagle]

William,

Are you claiming that hasn't already been done?

Ken

[williamc]

Are you claiming that hasn't already been done?

I know it has been done, I actually pay attention to my industry and what is happening. I do not sit blindly by and merely regurgitate what everyone else has done, Ken. You however, have never been involved in any testing, by your own admission. That puts you in the class of simple regurgitators. That also defaults to you not knowing about changes as they happen. It also leads to articles written that are wholly innacurate and misleading.

[janeth]

William,

Are you claiming that hasn't already been done?

Ken

Why do you fear a test so much?

[greeneagle]

There is no need for personal attacks here william. For a moment I thought we were "bedfellows" here!

You are absolutely right though, I have no use or interest in meaningless tests by so called experts in any forum.

When a respected poster comes along here with a gang websites in a niche market that is delivering revenue and he/she/they/it.... say; "yes it's happening here".

What's Janeth doing over there?

LMAOROTF

Ken

[janeth]

You are absolutely right though, I have no use or interest in meaningless tests by so called experts in any forum.

I never called myself an expert but I would love to put my skills up against yours any day of the week.



What's Janeth doing over there?

LMAOROTF

Ken

Please explain a little better what this is suppose to mean?

[greeneagle]

Janeth:


greeneagle wrote:
William,

Are you claiming that hasn't already been done?

Ken


Why do you fear a test so much?

LOL Janeth, there's no fear, it's already been done by Bill.

What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?
What's the deal your dealing in here?

You want to talk replication at best or what?

Ken

[janeth]

There is no need for personal attacks

Coming from someone that can post without making at lest one or two.

[janeth]

Ken he never showed what he did or any proof that what he said worked, I need more then that if you have a problem with it then lock the thread and I'll take my topic else where.

Other then that get a life.

[langsor]

Wow,

This is like watching an old married couple bicker over the breakfast table...do you all really feel that your words and opinions about each other are so important and profound that everyone watching this thread wants to hear them? If you have to cut on each other, maybe you could PM each other and stop taking this thread further off topic than it already is!

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a newby here. I don't have thousands of posts to my name--which could be construed as me having a life.

Of couse, I'm still here, so maybe your bickering is more interesting than I want to admit--which could be construed as me not having a life.


LOL

[greeneagle]

I am just a respondent to your game Janeth, forget the "MOD" tag!

Ken

[southplatte]

Come on William we should all know in this game by now, some things just don't need to be tested, because they already have.

Bill would never step on stage and present anything that hadn't been duly tested.


The basic fact of the matter is, any testing or method that is done, that has no published proven results, that is then disemminated amongst a public forum (and by forum I don't just mean WPW or other online forum, I mean whether a Net forum, a speaking engagement, or a written engagement) has to have the results of those tests to substantiate it or it is nothing more than false claims, a smoke screen or other "hype building" exercise that has no place being put out as any type of "how to", "tutorial", "authority" or "case study".

End of story.

That is not only the industry standard in Web Development, SEO, and IT in general but also the standard in 98% of all the other known industries.

To test something or do something, the bring it to public light to say, Look at me, then not back it up with jack is nothing more than misleading, hurtful to the industry, to this forum, and wrong. And that is my opinion on the matter at hand.

WPW as far as I am concerned, that has a Moderator that defends unsubstantiated claims of another member, based soley on the reputation of that member and nothing else, that claims testing is futile because it has been done, without any results being posted with the claims is the biggest joke I have seen on the Net in a very long time.

Very long time.

People come to a forum to learn better ways of doing things, to get ideas of how to do things, but not be misled. T\hat is all this thread has done. And, if the experts disagree, why not make it right with the results to back up empty claims. That is standard procedure in all industries. In college writing you have to show the end results of all tests and experiments, you have to cite your sources.

I agree with williamc, taking things for granted in this industry is just wrong, it hurts the web as a whole becuase it creates stale, stagnant processes and procedures. Not only that, you fall behind, and then make your clients fall behind. At some point the clients will be tech savvy enough or get ahead in the game and call the web developers and SEO "experts" and such on their game by way of a court room.

[janeth]

I am just a respondent to your game Janeth, forget the "MOD" tag!

Ken

I'm finished with this thread Ken, Oh and I forgot about your little mod take a long time ago.

[greeneagle]

Carry on over there Janeth to your heart's content - It's OK, I won't interfere..play it out!

But let's get back on topic here.

Bill presented a window into "present realities", and I am not only viewing it that way, but have already turned our "sails" in a similar direction, some time ago.

You have to take advantage of the "winds" when they blow.

Ken

[ctabuk]

Please get back on topic.

Create Hype as Bill has so cleverly succeeded in doing will always generate traffic. But do the ends justify the means. Should a thread be used to these ends? Well from a marketeers point of view Yes.

I give you Orson Wells and the War of the Worlds once more. Nice one Bill

[joer80]

I need more popcorn...

[bhartzer]

he never showed what he did
Somewhere, buried in all this mess I (thought I) presented exactly what I did. But maybe I need to say it again:

- identify your niche
- create content that people are interested in (use link bait (http://www.searchengineguide.com/hartzer/006598.html))
- send out pings and notifications about that content
- tell people about that content (use social bookmarking when appropriate, e.g., use the socializer)

Don't worry about search engine rankings.



Pass the popcorn! I like mine with just a little butter and a little salt. ;)

[Clint1]

he never showed what he did
Somewhere, buried in all this mess I (thought I) presented exactly what I did. But maybe I need to say it again:

- identify your niche
- create content that people are interested in (use link bait (http://www.searchengineguide.com/hartzer/006598.html))
- send out pings and notifications about that content
- tell people about that content (use social bookmarking when appropriate, e.g., use the socializer)

Don't worry about search engine rankings.



Pass the popcorn! I like mine with just a little butter and a little salt. ;)
You ALWAYS have to worry about SERP's. When someone needs to buy something online, the first place they visit is SE's and if you're not in the SE's, you won't have any business from them. This of course applies to sites that sell products.

[joer80]

Do you get very many hits from people searching for things other than company names? Or is all of your traffic coming from company name searches and sources.

[bhartzer]

You ALWAYS have to worry about SERP's.
Yes, the ultimately goal is good search engine rankings.

If you quit worrying about your search engine rankings and build content for human visitors then the search engine rankings will follow.



You ALWAYS have to worry about SERP's.
Uh, no, there's actually sources of traffic other than the search engines. There's myspace traffic, youtube traffic, traffic from facebook, and traffic from emails (people sending emails to others telling someone to go to a site), traffic from social bookmarking sites...

Everyone's so stuck on worrying about the search engines. Just look at Matt Drudge (drudgereport.com), he just set a personal record (http://www.threadwatch.org/node/10113) on his site for having over 25 million pageviews in one day. The site doesn't rank very well.

[southplatte]

he never showed what he did
Somewhere, buried in all this mess I (thought I) presented exactly what I did. But maybe I need to say it again:

- identify your niche
- create content that people are interested in (use link bait (http://www.searchengineguide.com/hartzer/006598.html))
- send out pings and notifications about that content
- tell people about that content (use social bookmarking when appropriate, e.g., use the socializer)

Don't worry about search engine rankings.



Pass the popcorn! I like mine with just a little butter and a little salt. ;)

Bill, while you were not as straight forward in the original post, I agree you showed (well told) us what you did. You just forgot to provide the proof of results.

Thus, the want and need arose for some to test it before employing it in a real world example on an enterprise scale where, in all honesty, a wrong move drives your sales down to lose several hundred thousand dollars (or several million); it's too risky without any evidenciary support. At least for me. That has been my argument for several pages now, because honestly I don't know your reputation, and could care less about it because Reverend Ted Haggard had a good reputation and look at what happened there.

I do, however, seriously doubt many users on here are looking to leverage it on that high of a level. - not trying to cheapen anyones efforts, but if you have a method that can stand to gain double the traffic and a good chance to increase sales, you try it, but only if you have some form of evidence or a sound backing to support doing so, especially when you are mid proposal to mid- and upper-level management (and they definitely do not give a rip about some forum posters reputation).

If the results were known, and could be compared to other methods, you could market the Bill Hartzer Traffic Kit (sub titled "How to Launch a New Site and Dominate Quickly") for $49.95 and patent it for all I give darn and I would probably buy it if it had "concrete evidenciary support" of the claims being made. I think a lot of others would buy it too if it had that.

[greeneagle]

LOL bhartzer, I like my popcorn with "butter and salt" too. It has to be real butter though... no substitutes! "Sea Salt" is OK, but I won't go out of my way to acquiesce there.

Why would anyone in their right mind be concerned with extra "mineral content" while slamming "popcorn" into their face?

Ken

[greeneagle]

ctabuk,

David,

Did you really mean to say there wasn't any real content posted by Bill here in initial and follow up communications and that this whole thread is nothing but marketing spin in a marketing thread hurled out in some meaningless space?

Surely you don't really want to play there!

I thought we had already been there and back.

The GOOG has already sent out a thread owner validation postcard to Bill by snail mail to list this thread on Google Maps.

LOL

Ken

[bhartzer]

test it before employing it...employing it
Sorry, but I don't buy that argument. No one needs to see proof of (my) methodology before employing it. In fact, what I presented (and what I did) is nothing new. Savvy marketers have been using all of these methods I've presented in this post for a few years now:

It's been proven plenty of times in the corporate world that corporate blogs work.

Pinging works and Google themselves even encourage it (http://www.google.com/help/blogsearch/about_pinging.html).

I don't have to prove to you or anyone else how creating good content and that link bait works. I'm sure you know that and maybe have even done it yourself.

Social bookmarking is a reality.

I'm sorry that you have to go through proposals to mid- and upper-level management before anything can be implemented. For that matter, do you have to put a proposal together before you can bookmark something or send an email to your friend recommending that they go check out a site with good content?

That's what I'm talking about here: social bookmarking and telling other people about good content. It's nothing new. In fact, if you add up the time you've spent reading and writing posts here in this forum you probably could have socially bookmarked about 152 websites.

[bhartzer]

you could market the Bill Hartzer Traffic Kit
Wow, that's a good one. In fact, I have a book that will be published soon about Corporate Website Marketing. Plenty of examples in there ;)

In this case, for the sake of this thread, I am choosing not to talk specifically about "proof". I'm more interested in getting others to see success through creating good content, joining and participating in social bookmarking communities on a regular basis, and seeing great search engine rankings as a result.

The original post was written to stir discussion of these methods, not to blow my own horn. That's why the "how to" part is in the title of the post: let's continue to discuss methods.

[greeneagle]

bhartzer:


"That's what I'm talking about here: social bookmarking and telling other people about good content. It's nothing new. In fact, if you add up the time you've spent reading and writing posts here in this forum you probably could have socially bookmarked about 152 websites."

I must say Bill, I have never seen that side of you...

Let's "say grace" over that or something!

How many times are you going to have to "set the table" here?

Ken

[southplatte]

I'm sorry that you have to go through proposals to mid- and upper-level management before anything can be implemented. For that matter, do you have to put a proposal together before you can bookmark something or send an email to your friend recommending that they go check out a site with good content?

I am sorry I have to do that as well, but I never said "anything" so don't put words I didn't write in my posts....

I do however have the task of publishing a new website this weekend, for my employer. To top that off, since I am a web programmer, NOT marketer, nor have I ever claimed to be a marketer on any web site, forum or email that I have ever sent at any point in time, I have been placed in charge of developing marketing plans for this site to increase the unique hits, even though we are getting several hundred thousand uniques each month, several million repeat hits. If I take a method, choose to implement it on half information, no proof that it works other than "your good word" it is not your rear that is in the sling, but it is mine. And in an industry that is, as far as I think, more competitive than the one we are discussing right now, one faltering step can spell doom, even to a well established company.

So to further discuss what you say, I have a PR6 web site, I want to gain better expsoure for. It is for a well known company, in a well known market, that is known globally. We already have a good forum base on several forums related to us, however, we only have about 580 links according to Google, though we appear at number one for several search terms, and have a decent pr.

What I am looking at is the fact that we are in an industry that is even more competitive than the web marketing one, and that is the toy market - we have ads in top magazines, on television, and quite a few other places.

So, given the fact that site I am working with is several years old, going on its fourth edition, has had established content available that is somewhat stale, however is getting more fresh content added, has a well established offline marketing plan in place and being implemented, will your methods be a waste of time, or will it help increase traffic, in your "experience" enough to make it worth my time to first register and then submit to about 152 bookmark sites? And in the social genere, when a product gets a bad review (lets face it the whole social idea can be the best or the worst, and very rarely mediocre), will the potential of that be more damaging than sticking with what we do now?

And, the sites linked to in the thread by others (that appear to be yours) may have good content, but it's not your content (at least not all of it), that's for sure. so your claims of "creating" content earlier are somewhat bogus. So to ask you a question on that - if I create brand new, original content not available elsewhere, are the results the same? Or do I have to just use a content clearing house and build upon the work of others? Or just put my nuts in the vise and hope it doesn't get too tight?

Several of those questions are specific to my current sitatuion, but are slight variations on quesitons by others. You still have yet to answer, stating results that prove your claims are unnecessary because you have not done anything different than anyone else.

If that was case Bill, and you really have not done anything new, astounding, different or special, why even post about it? If it is so well talked about, well known and commonly practiced, and something that everyone else was doing and something the average web master would know to pick up one right away, why waste time creating the original post, and then defending your reasonings (whatever they may be) as to not backing up a single claim you make, and not expounding on how this has potential in other generes of web sites that are say, consumer and product based, not just ripping content based.

And to answer you Ken, the table is set with an appetizer. The methods he talked about work great if you are using a clearing house for content. What about using regular content. Or product based content. Those quesitons have been asked several times. A few others have offered to test it in those ares. I cannot afford to downfall if it does not work as well as claimed....sorry I value my employer that much that I have their best interest at heart because they are the ones signing my paycheck.

[greeneagle]

Hopefully Bill will respond here too southplatte, but my call would be establish a real serious "Wordpress" cleanly formatted, authoritive voice in a corporte blog format and tear the "toy market" up.

It will take some time in that competitive arena, no doubt about it... That's 1 single door.

Slide through the others at the same time... don't even walk through prweb.com without serious incriments of $200 min each time you play there though. Take full advantage of RSS feeds and pic uploads (multiple) for the SE's Image plays...Play and play hard there (several times a year), there's 2 doors already! Some doors open to others - the $200 mark there also currently (for a short time) offers a podcast interview. Promise me though, if you play there, don't neglect the RSS feed option.

How about Door #3 - Slam everything you do out there with "Social" linking options. Even prweb offers that now.

There is no free game at your competition level, don't doubt that for a minute!

In fact, there aren't many "free games" left anywhere in my honest opinion.

You are in a place to play in next years marketing budget there... make sure these items and others are included and it should play out well for you.

Note: We didn't go back and look at the most basic listing costs for top directories yet, I am just assuming you already have. Those renewals also need to be figured into your next year's budget.

Ken

[AxiomTrend]

Bill thanks for reminding me about the benefits of Social Bookmarking and for telling your success with it, and for recommending Socializer, an excellent social bookmarks submission tool!

[DrTandem1]

In fact, I have a book that will be published soon about Corporate Website Marketing.

No kidding, I never would have guessed.

[greeneagle]

I promise Doc I didn't collaborate there, even though I could have!

LOL

Ken

[janeth]

In fact, I have a book that will be published soon about Corporate Website Marketing.

No kidding, I never would have guessed. lol

[janeth]

I needed to see it to believe it but I'm starting to think it can be done.

The political blog (http://www.bloggin.info/) seems to be picking up steam now. We did not get the stats added on the site until about 3 hours ago and it has already gotten around 80 visitors to the site.

We have also not finished submitting the site yet to all the bookmarking sites.
I'm going to try and turn out an article an hour and have one of the girls here start submitting them. I'm thinking at that rate we can hit 1,000 visitors a day on the site by tomorrow.

Then I'm going to put another girl on myspace and some of those types of sites and I'm going to start posting on the forums again.

My goal at this time is to try and push the site to 10,000 visitors a day and try and figure out a way to convert the traffic into money.

It's not as easy as Bill made out but enough people on the project I think I can do something with this.

[greeneagle]

And then Janeth comes back in calling Bill a "Marketing Monster".

Tnis is truly a thread to treasure!

LOL

Ken

[southplatte]

Ken,

Thanks for the reply.

I have done all the directory costing, PPC costing, and trust me it is all cheaper than print cost. Much cheaper, and print cost is much cheaper than broadcasting cost.

I am looking honestly to see if I can't boost things enough with some "crafty" methods to help open up these other areas we use to more specific types of campaigns.

Unfortunately, it is more becoming a jump before looking situation, which is why I have probably been a staunch proponent of providing exacting proof of the claims Bill made. I guess though what I need to do is calm down and realize, as long as it does not have a negative effect anything is better than what we have going in these areas right now.

I would still like to hear an opinion on fall-out rates of poor socializing results. I know some of the sites can have a profound effect for sure, I just don't know the quantifications of them (the numbers).

Our online presnece has been driven solely by our offline reputation and very little else - yet we have good rankings (for our top keyword, we are number two only being beat out by a much more well known enterprise.


My goal at this time is to try and push the site to 10,000 visitors a day and try and figure out a way to convert the traffic into money.

It's not as easy as Bill made out but enough people on the project I think I can do something with this.

Of course, if Bill has been "practicing" this methodology for a while, it could take him less time. I just hate playing with a large corporate web site. You rock for tyring it out like this and letting us know how it works, what steps you have had to take and the "results" of those steps.

[janeth]

And then Janeth comes back in calling Bill a "Marketing Monster".

Tnis is truly a thread to treasure!

LOL

Ken

Can you get your head out of Bill's ass long enough to show me where I said that?

[southplatte]

And then Janeth comes back in calling Bill a "Marketing Monster".

Tnis is truly a thread to treasure!

LOL

Ken

Results talk Ken. Janeth now is getting results. She also shares. :-)

[janeth]

Of course, if Bill has been "practicing" this methodology for a while, it could take him less time. I just hate playing with a large corporate web site. You rock for tyring it out like this and letting us know how it works, what steps you have had to take and the "results" of those steps.

I agree, I just wish he had been a little more open to explaining everything he did.

[greeneagle]

I spent some time with a "bucket and a mop" there southplatte, sorry you didn't appreciate it.

Best of luck anyway,

Let us know how it goes.

Ken

[southplatte]

I spent some time with a "bucket and a mop" there southplatte, sorry you didn't appreciate it.

Ken

Ken I did appreciate it, repsonded appropriately thanking you first and explaining where I find myself now, after two days of this thread - getting ready to jump and explore as best I can what the original poster intended to teach.

I also appreciate what Janeth has done by quantifying the results in her method, something the orignal poster refused to do from the get go.

Even still I am starting to appreciate what Bill has done by posting the original post in the manner he posted it, and in the way he has handled it. Further, I still say Genius. Pure Genius. I say that because there is a truth to the self marketing that has happened as a result of this thread, whether intended or not by Bill. That alone is classy and classic.

It has been fun, it has been eye-opening and lets just say someone is going to go spend $40 tonight after he gets home and do some experimentation with "social" bookmarks, great content and some good tips. If it works, I will write a proposal addition to the marketing plan, and perform the same methods at work. If that works, trust me when I say, you will know for sure who I work for, and if the results are as great as claimed and I should not even have to post here for you to know it.

And lastly Ken, I will say I appreciate you not kicking me out of the thread as I have probably been one of the most vocal in it....though I have not posted anything of untruth, and have used cited sources when necessary and posted results when necessary.

So, that is my way of telling Ken, Janeth, Bill and anyone and everyone else, "hey, thanks for the eye opener, and it was a fun thread to participate in."

[greeneagle]

Southplatte,

PM me with your URL and lets go off-line here.

Ken

[bhartzer]

I just wish he had been a little more open to explaining everything he did.
I'm here for everyone to explain what I did (and continue to do on a regular basis).

What am I missing here that I haven't explained?

Congratulations on using these methods to get traffic to your sites. I'm glad this thread has at least opened up one person's eyes ;)

[janeth]

What am I missing here that I haven't explained?


I have a couple qustions

It does seem to work with spikes of traffic but a steady flow of traffic seems to take an equal steady flow of work.

Is this what you have also found?

Most of the people on these sites are people that spend a lot of time online and surfing the Internet they see ads all day long and are rarely looking for something to buy, converting this traffic into customers will be more difficult then converting your average surfer.

Do you agree with the above statement?



Congratulations on using these methods to get traffic to your sites. I'm glad this thread has at least opened up one person's eyes ;)

Thanks for your orginial post,

I've been looking at all the methods of getting traffic from the social media networks for a while now and is why the ranked1 site carries the theme it carries and has carried since the first of this month.

I may have never gone as deep into it as I have if it had not been from your post but I'd love to hear from anyone that has used this traffic to make a living.

I'd like to know how people are getting the traffic to convert.

I've got three people wide open now on the bloggin site but are not getting any where close to the traffic that you said you were getting.

What do you think you did differently from what I'm doing?

[bhartzer]

Most of the people on these sites are people that spend a lot of time online and surfing the Internet they see ads all day long and are rarely looking for something to buy, converting this traffic into customers will be more difficult then converting your average surfer.
That's not the point. Yes, we know that the traffic from social bookmarks is not necessarily the best converting traffic. But that's not the point here.

The point is that to get your pages index quickly and to rank you need visitors to your site (new sites need this to get past the "sandbox"). Your pages need links--and you can get fresh eyes and fresh links using social bookmarking. The point here is to get visitors which will help get better search engine rankings. Search engine rankings lead to conversions.

Keep in mind that you may be looking for conversions while another type of site may be looking for traffic and links. But, nonetheless, we all want better search engine rankings, right?

For a site that actually sells something online or is looking for people who click on ads, the uptick in visitors that don't buy and don't click is a small nuisance that ultimately leads to increased search engine rankings in the long run.

In this case, the ends justify the means.

[bhartzer]

I'd like to know how people are getting the traffic to convert.
That traffic will NOT convert. Look at the big picture here, not whether or not a few visitors convert.