keyword vs. key-word

[coder]

I just stumbled upon this little known secret.

It appears that SE's recognize keyword.com the same as key-word.com and that also hold true for ke-yword.com.

The little testing I did on this is doesn't appear it matters where the "-" is in the url. so if you only care about SE's and not users, you can purchase virtually any word or phrase you want and place a hyphen in the word.

At the time of writing this c-omputers.com is available

but w-ebsite.com and s-ex.com is taken, apparently someone already knew about this.

[grobar]

The little testing I did on this...

Please elaborate on the testing you did. Not sure exactly how you would go about testing this one.

[PajamaExecutive]

Second That..!

I've known this for a long time and have a few websites with hyphens in the domain names, but I'm really interested to hear your testing details.


Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
Founder
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

[DrTandem1]

That is really irrelevant. The domain name is for humans, not SEs. Yes, they can recognize words, so what? The domain name is for humans to be able to remember and enter.

Very little weight is placed on the domain name itself by the major search engines.

[RegDCP]

Very little weight is placed on the domain name itself by the major search engines.

How do you know this?

Reg

[DrTandem1]

Very little weight is placed on the domain name itself by the major search engines.

How do you know this?

Reg
If that weren't true, then only sites with relevant keywords in their domain would appear high in the results. There are plenty of sites that are #1 that do not have relevant keywords in their domain name. Conversely, there are many sites with relevant keywords that are not high in the SERPs.

If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker.

Look, the only reason we use domain names is because using only IP addresses would be very difficult for the human visitor entering a site directly.

By the way, adding hyphens only adds confusion to the human trying to remember a domain name. If you don't believe me, check the market rates for domain names that are hyphenated compared to unhyphenated.

[PajamaExecutive]

Doc,

There are more than a few creative ways to get "clicked" that don't depend on the user's impression of the domain name and that would certainly benefit from better Google rankings.

coder,

Please continue...

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

[DrTandem1]

Doc,

There are more than a few creative ways to get "clicked" that don't depend on the user's impression of the domain name and that would certainly benefit from better Google rankings.



Huh? Can you please rephrase this so it makes sense? The topic was based on SEs recognizing hyphenated domain names. That is old news. What is more incredible is that they understand unhyphenated names, No matter, it makes little difference in the SERPs.

Yes, there are many ways to get traffic to a site, however, that was not the topic.

[Orion]

that's been known since I took my webmaster courses at college back 10 years ago now.

the other side of the coin holds true too.. the bots know enough to take keywords and separate it to key and words. you don't need to put in a hyphen.

remember the key to not getting penalized.. design and build your site for your site visitors NOT for the search engines. k-eyword.com will get you nailed in any human edited directory and eventually I figure the SE's will do the same... like now if you have more than 3 words with 2 hyphens they frown a bit.

make it easy for visitors to read and remember the URL.

[craigmn3]

I have known for a while (years) the search engines have counted dashes and understrokes as voids. They don't figure them at all. I used to optimize with dashes and under strokes until I realized that I was trying to capture smoke in a bottle. Worse yet above ground pools reads the same as abovegroundpools as the same as above-ground-pools.
So have fun

I appreciate what was said about web pages are for people and not search engines. Think of search engines as the program guide on the TV if your not listed you got nobody to watch the programs

[PajamaExecutive]

Doc,

Here's the problem; I was trying to contradict you without making you feel bad in front of others. I was concerned that your strong response may stop coder from responding and I really want to hear what he has to say about his testing.

I strongly disagree with you, but have no need to shove my opinion and experience down your throat. That wasn't my intention so please relax.

Craig,

Right on.

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

[incrediblehelp]

Chuck keywords in the domain don't mean much for SEO, sorry. Sure they do have a little weight, but no where near enough to go out and base the whole buying decision on. I buy them because they are catchy for the end user, not for search engine reasons.

[effisk]

I don't agree with coder.

take
this-and-that.com
and
thisandthat.com
for example.

Both will show up for a search for "this and that".
Only the second domain will show up for a search for "thisandthat".

c-omputer.com will not show up for a search for "computer", even if there was no competition on that word.
computer.com can be broken down into several keywords, "compute", "computer", and so on, and the site will show up on all these keywords. The domain name c-omputer.com will not (can not) show up for these same words.

sidenote: I am obvioulsy not taking into account any other parameter (competition, keywords used in the meat tags, the title tag or within the pages, or anchor text linking to the domain, etc.).

coder, please prove your point by showing an example.

[PajamaExecutive]

Incredible,

I don't place any real weight on that aspect of the site's marketing plan. It's just real helpful when you intend to heavily market a new product and the name without hyphens is taken and undermarketed. This way I have the extra benefit of "possible" Google help.

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

[spherica]

Very little weight is placed on the domain name itself by the major search engines.

How do you know this?

Reg
If that weren't true, then only sites with relevant keywords in their domain would appear high in the results. There are plenty of sites that are #1 that do not have relevant keywords in their domain name. Conversely, there are many sites with relevant keywords that are not high in the SERPs.

If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker.

Look, the only reason we use domain names is because using only IP addresses would be very difficult for the human visitor entering a site directly.

By the way, adding hyphens only adds confusion to the human trying to remember a domain name. If you don't believe me, check the market rates for domain names that are hyphenated compared to unhyphenated.

You killed your own argument by suggesting "If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker."...

...as everything else is impacted by the use of domain - content, links, particularly true if another website links 'only by' the url reference rather than an text anchor... and should your company name and domain name be one... the power of that combination is difficult to overpower.

[effisk]

Very little weight is placed on the domain name itself by the major search engines.

How do you know this?

Reg
If that weren't true, then only sites with relevant keywords in their domain would appear high in the results. There are plenty of sites that are #1 that do not have relevant keywords in their domain name. Conversely, there are many sites with relevant keywords that are not high in the SERPs.

If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker.

Look, the only reason we use domain names is because using only IP addresses would be very difficult for the human visitor entering a site directly.

By the way, adding hyphens only adds confusion to the human trying to remember a domain name. If you don't believe me, check the market rates for domain names that are hyphenated compared to unhyphenated.

You killed your own argument by suggesting "If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker."...

...as everything else is impacted by the use of domain - content, links, particularly true if another website links 'only by' the url reference rather than an text anchor... and should your company name and domain name be one... the power of that combination is difficult to overpower.You could add that c-omputer is not recognized as the keyword "computer", which means c-omputer.com is of no value in terms of SEO.

[DrTandem1]

Doc,

Here's the problem; I was trying to contradict you without making you feel bad in front of others. I was concerned that your strong response may stop coder from responding and I really want to hear what he has to say about his testing.

I strongly disagree with you, but have no need to shove my opinion and experience down your throat. That wasn't my intention so please relax.

Craig,

Right on.

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

You ask for test results. I speak from experience and knowledge. There is no debate regarding a SE's ability to parse words. This is not a "little known secret."

All that leaves for a possible benefit is for SEO; and as most here agree, it is of little value. There is really no point in buying c-omputer.com, if computer.com is taken. I will admit that there are probably some exceptions to getting a domain with a hyphen, but in general terms it is simply asking for trouble.

As for you not liking my no-nonsense style, I am opinionated and often taken as being rude. So be it. Contradiction is a part of forums. If you have something to say, say it. It won't hurt my feelings, I don't know any of you well enough for that to happen.

[effisk]

There is no debate regarding a SE's ability to parse words. This is not a "little known secret."SE can find the keywords "computer" and "free" in freecomputer.com and free-computer.com but do not find these keywords in fre-ecomp-uter.com

coder seems to be convinced of the contrary. Do you think so? If so, you are wrong.

[effisk]

On the other hand, if you type "c-omputer" in google's searchbox, it will suggest the most approaching keyword, "computer".

c-ompuer.com remains useless in terms of SEO because it probably won't be listed in the search results, unless you optimize your site for "c-omputer", which is pretty much useless too..

[DrTandem1]

You killed your own argument by suggesting "If all else is equal, then the domain name may become the tie breaker."...

...as everything else is impacted by the use of domain - content, links, particularly true if another website links 'only by' the url reference rather than an text anchor... and should your company name and domain name be one... the power of that combination is difficult to overpower.

No I didn't. Rarely is all else equal. There will always be the proverbial straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back. At some point you reach diminishing returns and risk a penalty. I simply pointed out the slim possibility that it could matter.

I believe that domain names should be short and descriptive of the site, easy to spell and easy to remember. That being said, my own domain name sucks, except I don't get business from the name itself. I get business from the SERPs and from referrals.

I believe all of those things listed above from a human visitor aspect. I think you lose more than you could ever possibly gain from the typical hyphenated domain name. I realize that people want certain domain names and turn to hyphenation out of a lack of creativity.

I am being honest. The difference is insignificant. Show me two sites that have everything else equal (content, IBLs, etc.) and one has a domain with relevant keywords and one doesn't, I'll bet the one with the relevant domain name wins, hyphenated or not. Now, if that difference is only that one is c-omputer.com and the other computer.com, I think you will see the hyphenated name behind the unhyphenated name.

Tell me how my argument is invalid.

[PajamaExecutive]

effisk,

Would you feel the same about computer-supplies and computersupplies, rather than c-omputer and computer?

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

[incrediblehelp]

effisk,

Would you feel the same about computer-supplies and computersupplies, rather than c-omputer and computer?

Respectfully,
Chuck Mullaney
PajamaExecutive (http://www.pajamaexecutive.com)

The SE's can read computer-supplies and "computersupplies as "computer supplies" if the choose to. The only way the SE's could read c-omputer as "computer" is if they didnt consider a dash a delimiter.


Edit: Adding to this again who cares. The domain means very little. If you feel c-omputer.com is a great domain for your store buy it, but I wouldnt mess with dashed domains.

[Peter (IMC)]

I founf the following things:

seoworks site:www.seo-works.com (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=seoworks+site%3Awww.seo-works.com) 0 results. Means that seoworks is not recognized to be the same as seo-works

seo_works site:www.seo-works.com (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=seo_works+site%3Awww.seo-works.com) 0 results. Means that _ is not seen as a space but as a real character.

intext:seo-works site:www.seo-works.com (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=intext%3Aseo-works+site%3Awww.seo-works.com) lots of results. Means that a - is treated as a space.

Keep in mind that a search engine can be smart enough to understand that spelling errors can be made. So for any common word they´re going to return results when it is misspelled.

However, seoworks is not a common word, actually it´s not a word at all, so therefore the spelling correction doesn't apply.

In any way, keywords in the url are of little value. Some consider that the keywords in the url will help when lots of links are simply the URL. But if you ask me, it´s mostly a waste of time.

If you want to get really big online, use a rediculous name.

Examples?

Google
Yahoo
Amazon
etc.
etc.
etc.

[NameCritic]

Okay.

Alt tags are of little importance, so lets scrap them too.

keyword metas are not that valuable so lets scrap them too.

Each thing you do for your website adds to overall SEO. So saying that the domain name has little importance so why bother with it means that you just skipped one small piece of the puzzle.

Personally, I don't like to skip anything, so the domain names should be part of the puzzle just like all the rest of it.

That being said, yes the hyphen thing is really really old and hyphens inside of a word are totally worthless.

It also used to work for repetitions. Not bothering to check if it still does. Used to be able to get the same results for domainname.com and domainnamedomainname.com

Thats the reason that sex.com, sexsex.com, sexsexsex.com, and so on up to 64 characters have all been registered by people who think that if sex.com is worth 18 million, then sexsex.com must be worth 9 million and so on. Not true.

Coder, probably any trick you come up with on domain names was something we were doing in 1994-95 when domain speculation was much newer and bigger.

Keep trying though. Maybe you will find some big secret. Not one to discourage you on that.

[jtracking]

I really REALLY don't believe the name of your domain will help you more than other domain names when it comes to the SEs cause there are tons of high ranking sites without their kws in their domain...

it may be a factor but i'm sure not a major one.

[Orion]

touch off topic.. sorry about that ...

NameCritic you mentioned alt tags are of little importance... since SE's are starting to look at accessibility of the site (why rank a site that only part of the world can see?) alt tags still have importance. Stuffing with keywords won't do you squat though, alt tags are the alternative to the image so if I'm in a text or speech browser I'd see 'corner image' 'company name logo' etc (from the alt="").

To provide instruction to the viewer via a tool tip the proper attribute is title="" and you would mostly put that into your <a> or if no anchor you can use them in <img> but that should only be done where it's helpful. You can even use them in <input> tags to provide info to the site visitor (not sure how x-browser that is though).

[NameCritic]

Again, yes it has small value only. But many of the factors you need to rank well are each and of themselves small things, but if we do not ignore those other small things, why ignore this small thing?

Thats all I'm saying. I didn't say the right domain name will make you number 1 in the search engines.

[NameCritic]

orion the last post was to the post before yours, but still applies. Each part in and of itself is part of the whole.

Taking ANY of the parts out of the picture is handicapping yourself.

If I told you to optimize my website would you recommend lets do it all but not this part?

Thats all i'm trying to say there. The domain name does have some value, admitted by several in this thread. Therefore it is an improvement even if only a SMALL improvement. I'll take any improvements I can get.

[incrediblehelp]

Okay.

Alt tags are of little importance, so lets scrap them too.

keyword metas are not that valuable so lets scrap them too.

Each thing you do for your website adds to overall SEO. So saying that the domain name has little importance so why bother with it means that you just skipped one small piece of the puzzle.

Funny you bring those up, because they mostly are crap. I understand what you are saying, hey if you can do it, then do it and I agree.

Now lets say I just sign a client and I go to their website to start work, I am not going to tell them to get a new domain because it doesn't have keyword(s) in it. I am not going to tell them to add keyword tags if they don't already have them and I am not going to change the ALT tags to be spam filled with keywords if they already properly describing images.


Thats the reason that sex.com, sexsex.com, sexsexsex.com, and so on up to 64 characters have all been registered by people who think that if sex.com is worth 18 million, then sexsex.com must be worth 9 million and so on.

That's I because those that bought those domains are morons or thought the domain names are catchy. The easiest way you see domain names don't mean much is by typing in the keyword "sex". Where is sex.com ranked....no where that I see.

[mandar-seo]

I have observed that the dash in the URL makes little difference. My website has the hyphen in it. When I search for it I could see the competitor (by just name and not business) on the third position. It is not having dash/hyphen in its URL and that makes him eligible to get place in first SERP.
I believe the search engines look at hyphens with black glasses and so are not very strict in distinguishing the URLs with and without dashes though in tie break they remove their glasses as well.

With regards,
Mandar Thosar

[RegDCP]

Now lets say I just sign a client and I go to their website to start work, I am not going to tell them to get a new domain because it doesn't have keyword(s) in it. I am not going to tell them to add keyword tags if they don't already have them and I am not going to change the ALT tags to be spam filled with keywords if they already properly describing images.

And what if you sign a client that does not have a domain name? Would you advise them to try to get something with their keywords in it?

You wouldn't tell a client to add keyword meta tags?
Why not?
And if the ALT tages were filled with spam? Would you then advise them to change?

Reg

[incrediblehelp]

I do search engine promotion and rarely create brands for clients. Most clients I deal with have already bought a domain. The domain you buy should be the name of your company. If it is not, its not. I let the client worry about the domain name. If you know SEO you can rank a clients website, domain name not with standing.

No I don't worry at all about keyword tags anymore. Now if their internal search feature takes them into account then, we can build them out because they can be very helpful for relevant internal search. I don't build them out for SEO reason because they don't matter one bit. My clients time can be better spent somewhere other than grouping keywords together.

If the ALT tags are filled with spam then you fix them. If they accurately describe the image then I leave them alone.

This is not rocket science boy and girls.

[mnsandy]

Stop thinking SES - thin biz! and it means branding and all the other things comes from there! :)

[e-dvertising]

We 've got an hyphen in our own domain-name due to historical reasons ... and we are online and in business since 1998 and from my point of view and experience i 100% agree to the pre post
Stop thinking SES - thin biz! , and that the SEs distinguish between domains with and without hyphens by comparing the content.

so - our site is german only right know - you could find us on 9 of 7.100.000 in austria/europe e.g.
http://www.google.at/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-01,GGLD:de&q=werbeagentur
and you will have to look far back to find "edvertising" (which is in the same business, but set up the content of it's page only approx two years ago and not much SE-friendly ;-)

[effisk]

effisk,

Would you feel the same about computer-supplies and computersupplies, rather than c-omputer and computer?Of course not! Read my first post:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=323015&sid=cf4b67548d36845c4f3ee49c9cd0a13c#323015

"Computer" and "supplies" are words. "c" and "omputer" are just random letters.

[ctabuk]

If you can still manage to find a URL with your keyword title in it, then do it. To say that the URL title is NOT important to SEO is complete tosh -sorry to disagree with incred on this one.
My reasons? Well about 3 months ago I was asked to help set up a village website, it was only a small site, but the main URL had been lost years ago but was still showing as it was still being hosted elsewhere, so we registered www.doningtonideanews.co.uk (The idea bit was the add on) I put the URL in my sig, and within 48 hours the search term with Idea was top on all the majors. Same with my CTAB Mortgage Desk - these are are 'unique' search terms -enhanced by the URL title, I can name hundreds of old unchanged URL's that have remained unaltered, unused, virtually dead sites that still rate because the URL and the search term are one and the same. Try searching for a few old Movie Stars or out of fashion Rockstars the odds are that you will find that either Wikipedia have added the Name to their URL title or that the original site is still showing Terry Kath comes to mind as a good example.
A small UK forum is also debating this very subject, it starts out as a discussion on flash sites, but gets around to this subject too www.startups.co.uk/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=134544

[TrafficProducer]

All I can say is http://www.free-jigsaws.com is one of my highest for vistors. (Content Relevant)

Could be because of image searching, I don't check visitors stats offen so don't take this an as a definitive guide.

I would assume that users, (humans), do not like having to find the hypen on their Keyboards and and type in.

[NameCritic]

I also do some nonprofit stuff. Check out http://www.runawayteens.org

I have not optimized that website. I built it in a day and haven't had time to go back and do anything to it. Unfortunately paying clients take priority right now.

But the national switchboard for runaway teens was the top site for the term runaway teens.

Now I am number 1 for that phrase in google, yahoo, and MSN. Look at number three in google. runawayteens.com

Sorry hulk. I usually agree with you on a lot of stuff, but been doing the domain thing for a long time, thats why I have the nickname, NameCritic since around 95.

Sometimes the domain name does matter.

[jgarner]

...Where is sex.com ranked....no where that I see.

And believe you me, I've been checking very diligently. For research, of course.

[ctabuk]

Purely for research too, it's a flash (in more than one way) site, so come on guys get serious.

Try this search Mad Max spur of the moment search term.

[e-dvertising]

here are the results of the austrian jury:

nr. 1 (of 24.100.000 !!!) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max

nr. 2 http://www.madmaxmovies.com/

nr. 3 http://www.moviefans.de/madmax/index.html

but

nr. 4 http://www.imdb.com/Title?0079501

it is - as mentioned above - a combination work and a good URL or directory-structury is nothing without content and _not_ vice verca!

[ctabuk]

Thank you Austria

Next I tried 'Search' on Google

www.search.msn came first in front of Google
Once again the URL comes first.

[e-dvertising]

attention, i have to admit, it is _not_ a rule, that the URL with the keyword is in front of results with differing ones!

it is a matter of content + ... [a lot of secrets whicht don't have that much weight some SEOs suggest!] + directory-structures + URL,

in that order (esp. for google)!

e.g. http://www.google.at/search?hs=XkS&hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=werbeagentur&btnG=Suche&meta=

in austria brings:

1. (of 9.370.000) http://www.rubikon.at/
(which made a lot of on- and offline-marketing effort to get that!)
2. ...
on 6. http://werbeagentur.de/
(the only one with keyword included beyon place 19)


we're on 8th place without having the keyword in URL or directory-names!

[incrediblehelp]

Sure if you can find one with the keywords in the title sure buy it, but what makes most sense is to buy a domain best for your business, as in your business name. Sure I bought kbkmarketing.com and that is my home page. I could have bought Ohio-SEO.com but it would have never been my main domain.

Once and for all, the domain name itself has a very tinny bit of SEO effect, but as I said other items such as good content, spider and user accessibility, IBLs are much more prominent and easily out weigh the domain name when looking at SERPs. You can easily see this in every search you do.

Strange I am so lonely on this topic. I guess I don't start from scratch as much as everyone. If a client has an established domain, that is so much more important than considering replacing it.

[ctabuk]

Jaan, the last thing I want is to fall out,you are technically my superior on SEO, but on marketing a URL, then I come into my own. If we create a page (anyone)we give it a title and optimize for that search term OK? Now the html will show say www,(xyz).com/keyword-pagetitle.whatever. Where is the first port of call for the spider? Of course it is the URL relevant to the search term put in by the searcher. So the URL title must play a an important role in the end result.
To demonstrate, which is something we both do. My home page is www.counciltenantsmortgages.co.uk only recently have faglork (who does my SEO) and I have really gone for new search terms 'Social Homebuy' 'Keyworker Mortgages' and in just a couple of weeks we have leapfrogged to page one on all of the majors (Yahoo is slowly catching up on Social Homebuy but I am targeting Directories listed by them)and it has paid dividends. What we are doing is extending the URL title, adding more and more content, especially Google Alerts which I strongly recommend any site owner to look at. And the results have been staggering.

[coder]

Wow, I didn't realize all the responses this post would generate in a short period.

I said in the original post that if you only cared about SE's and not users that you could use hyphens in the url. However I wouldn't go out and purchase k-eyword.com but key-word.com would be acceptable if keyword.com is not available. IMO your domain should be the first step in your SEM.

google and yahoo do not recognize hyphens, or at least not as much as msn does.

Also since I started this post someone has purchased c-omputers.com

[shutters]

Domain name can be very important to getting rankings if the domain name is a search phrase. I have some domains, none with dashes, that have achieved #1 rankings in Yahoo and Google with 1 back link for a pretty competitive search phrase just based on the url and a decent site up there of course.

[NameCritic]

Sure if you can find one with the keywords in the title sure buy it, but what makes most sense is to buy a domain best for your business, as in your business name. Sure I bought kbkmarketing.com and that is my home page. I could have bought Ohio-SEO.com but it would have never been my main domain.

Once and for all, the domain name itself has a very tinny bit of SEO effect, but as I said other items such as good content, spider and user accessibility, IBLs are much more prominent and easily out weigh the domain name when looking at SERPs. You can easily see this in every search you do.

Strange I am so lonely on this topic. I guess I don't start from scratch as much as everyone. If a client has an established domain, that is so much more important than considering replacing it.

Yes, I am mostly talking about new websites, new clients. I wouldn't get a client to change an established domain name either hulk.

But when starting out I recommend a generic name with search terms, then their company name domain redirected to their website so they can use it in letterheads, biz cards, and advertising.

[incrediblehelp]

I think we are all trying to say close to the same thing, I just feel the domain name is far less weighted in the overall SEO recipe than others in this thread do. That is all.

[nteparts]

Very interactive article.

[Peter (IMC)]

Making a domain name easy to remember is much more important than any SEO advantage it may give.

BUT

Making a domain name rememberable outways any other reason for choosing a domain name.

[NameCritic]

I agree if you plan to buy advertisements on radio, tv, etc. You want people to be able to remember it there most of all.

Still opt for generic keyword domain if most of your traffic comes from the web. People have bookmarks, less need to remember anything. People click whatever text is in a text link which is not always the domain name. People click a search result and don't even care what the domain name is.

Memorable is for advertising purposes. Keywords are for SEO whatever minor role they play.

You can use a memorable domain name for your letterhead, biz card, and ads on radio and tv and have it redirecting to the website while the keyword rich domain name is actually at the address.

On the server-side you can make sure that if someone uses that memorable name it will also appear in the address bar and even dynamically on the page itself.

If you had two clients, one with the domain name jewelry.com and the other with MontysDiscountJewelry.com and you did the seo for both customers and did everything you could for both clients, still betting jewelry.com would get better SERPs, more traffic, and be remembered much better than monty's.

[HookahMaster]

I have 2 websites with my keywords in them. One with a dash and one without the dash. www.discoverhookah.com and www.discover-hookah.com

Not all SE's recognize them the same. Google will not cashe www.discoverhookah.com at all, but it will cashe www.discover-hookah.com. Can you give me any reasons for this. I had discoverhookah without the dish much long than the one with the dash.

HookahMaster




I just stumbled upon this little known secret.

It appears that SE's recognize keyword.com the same as key-word.com and that also hold true for ke-yword.com.

The little testing I did on this is doesn't appear it matters where the "-" is in the url. so if you only care about SE's and not users, you can purchase virtually any word or phrase you want and place a hyphen in the word.

At the time of writing this c-omputers.com is available

but w-ebsite.com and s-ex.com is taken, apparently someone already knew about this.

[Peter (IMC)]

Not all SE's recognize them the same. Google will not cashe www.discoverhookah.com at all, but it will cashe www.discover-hookah.com. Can you give me any reasons for this. I had discoverhookah without the dish much long than the one with the dash.
Both domains show the same site. Google considers one to be the copy of the other, therefore is interested in just one of them. A duplicate site problem.

Added: Actually, one of the 2 is just 1 page, the links in the menu link to the other domain.

[themezoom]

Hi guys,

Thank you for all of your bantering.

We have found this thread very interesting, although it is an old topic in general, there is still some debate.

We feel it is sort of a "meat-free" debate in that SEO's tend to mix apples and oranges when it comes to the real issues of branding and domain names.

Quite simply it really depends upon what business model drives prospects and sales to your website and how they search for you.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that this arguement is the simple difference between technical (algorithmic) analysis and fundamental(common sense marketing)analysis. Nevertheless- having said that - most of the traffic from over HALF of my clients websites comes from a well branded USER oriented handle or domain name.

Feeder sites may be worth getting all technical about the dashes.

Has anyone seen the data from serch engine geeks on this subject?

- Russell

[ctabuk]

Interestingly I made a **** up in the choice of one of my new keywords. I spelt Keyworker as one word, had I have taken the time to check then most searches relate to Key Worker.
So we changed titles and tags and one week later we are well listed for both spellings of 'key worker mortgages'