Spam Campaign Costs [Archive]

dr954

09-04-2003, 07:27 PM

Recently I've been considering a spam campaign because of the high success rate I've heard people talking about. I've looked into a few companies and found one where people actually pick up their phones..

They told me it would cost around $300 to buy their software that will give me access to their proxy. It will then cost me $100 per 1 million emails I send out. They also said they have a city specific email list they will sell me for around $300 that includes 350k local names. To start it will cost about $700 and then about $2-400 monthly to gather new email addresses and send them out.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a good deal. The biggest thing they have going for them in my eyes -- is that they are in the same time zone as me and pick up their phones and offer customer support.

Has anyone found anything else out there like this that will cost the same price or less??

All feedback will be excellent.

dr954

janeth

09-05-2003, 09:28 AM

I know it is hard to get customer. I'm not one of those crazy people that think everyone that sends out spam mail is going to hell. I have no blockers on my email and even read information that is sent by way of spam. But the problem I see with spam is this. If for some reason your host thinks you have sent out spam he can shut your site down. The laws are getting tougher and tougher with spam mail and I hear a lot of people say you do not get the response that you once did. A lot of people have blockers to block the spam mail. I would but that money toward Google ad words or getting a top ranking on the search engines. You will come out better in the long run if you work on getting links to your site and a top ranking then you will spending money on spam mail. There are lots of ways to advertise on and off line that will bring you better results then spam.

macromike

09-05-2003, 11:29 AM

We've had great success with www.optinrealbig.com.

-m

macromike

09-05-2003, 11:33 AM

pjohnsons

09-05-2003, 11:46 AM

You said "Recently I've been considering a spam campaign ..."

Someday, you SPAMMERS will have to pay for all the crap we get in our mail boxes!

Untill then, everyone else please try http://www.bloomba.com/ and http://www.spamassassin.org/ it's free and it works to get rid of SPAM. You can also try http://spamcop.net/ or http://www.junkbusters.com

davebarnes

09-05-2003, 11:53 AM

I have heard OK things about www.yesmail.com

You will find tht opt-in lists are much more expensive than spam lists.

You can also rent names from a legitimate old-fashioned list broker such as www.edithroman.com. Here the names are typically of magazine subscribers. These cost about 40 cents/name/email. Very high quality though.

You should consider hiring a copywriter (e.g., Bob Bly at www.bly.com) to write the very important subject heading and the body.

All of this assumes that your product/service is NOT related to cleaning the septic system of my engorged and enlarged *****.

parallelworlds

09-05-2003, 11:57 AM

Spam is an invasion of privacy and an unwanted nuisance. In my eyes, spam is not a credible way to advertise your site. It is also normally linked to porn, get rich quick schemes, annoying chain mail, and of course viruses.

Do research on real advertising campaigns and you will not only become more profitable but more respected! I have no respect for those who "spam" their business in my e-mail box.

Then again, this is just one mans perspective on "Spam".

My two cents
Anthony
__________________
parallelworlds@yahoo.com
http://www.maashouse.com

red

09-05-2003, 12:17 PM

Hi dr954,

Ditto Anthony!!!!

The company that you (dr954) are considering doing the SPAM campaign with sounds smarmy. It brings back shades of the companies that promise to market your website to 1 million search engines for only $29.95...

But wait, there's more!

I just finished dumping 78 pieces of spam mail that came into my personal box overnite. I don't need Viagra, I don't want a date and am certainly not interested in "Hot young teens with farm animals". I don't even HAVE a septic system (or a *****)nor do I need any life insurance.
What I'm trying to say is this: Most of us hate spam because of the terrible reputation it has. Companies that market stuff mentioned (above) are largely responsible. I never even see my junk email box. I dump the trash as soon as I sign in. I trust I am not alone...
You may have a terrific product or service to offer but it won't be taken seriously by the masses already frustrated with spam. Follow Anthony's advice. Spam is not the way to a quick buck.
__________________________________________________

"Spam is an invasion of privacy and an unwanted nuisance. In my eyes, spam is not a credible way to advertise your site. It is also normally linked to porn, get rich quick schemes, annoying chain mail, and of course viruses.

Do research on real advertising campaigns and you will not only become more profitable but more respected! I have no respect for those who "spam" their business in my e-mail box.

Then again, this is just one mans perspective on "Spam"."
Make that one man and one woman...

"Red"

voicedialing

09-05-2003, 12:17 PM

I've been using email for years now. Most of the time it's simply to communicate some new information but I have used it to sell stuff too. Usually my emails are an upsell to existing customers so it's pretty good particularly reagarding ROI. In just the few replies posted here so far there's a wide range of feelings. Some people don't sweat it (me) and others get enraged (not saying you are pjohnsons). There's been so much about this lately that I just wrote an article about spam and how to reduce it and sent it to my list. Wouldn't you know one of my recipients got so mad I sent him the email he has been nuts about it. All he or anyone has to do is click the delete button and they're off. This particular gentleman has been receiving my emails for years and says he never heard of me before. I've received about 6 nasty emails and just as many phone calls all of which he's screaming so loud I can't understand him but they all end up with him just yelling obscenities anyway.
My point, I will continue to use email and just keep my eyes open for any flying pies coming my way. I always provide helpful information within my topic of expertise and once in a while add a sales piece. Sometimes I send just a blantant sales email. Double opt in has not worked as good as my own list and it can be rather expensive. I suggest taking Dave Barnes suggestion and get one of the more expensive but quality lists with mailing addresses included. Try the triple approach mail to them, email to them and then call them. Effective and cheap since you're not just using snail mail.

And it also depends on what you're selling. Don't sweat the small stuff, it's only an email and you can filter it out forever with the click of a button.

Good Luck with your campaign.

Kevin O'Donovan
Communication Consultant

malcolm

09-05-2003, 12:22 PM

I don't get as upset about spam as some do. I don't use blockers, I don't think of it as an invasion of privacy and I'm quite happy to use my delete key just as I throw junk snail mail in the bin and turn off the TV if there's something on it that I don't like. There is a big BUT coming though. Spam gets many people very upset indeed and if you employ it you're in a high risk business.

The reason that your hosting provider may be very strict about it is understandable. They can have an entire server blacklisted by the likes of AOL and others. Imagine how you'd feel if your site(s) were on a shared server that became blacklisted because of the actions of other users on that server.

Spam is Spam. I'm afraid there is no such thing as an opt-in list unless the addreeeses on it have specifically and knowingly opted in to YOU. Just because they sign up for information from somewhere, sometime does not mean that they suddenly become fair game for all. E-mailing such a so called "opt in list" is spam.

A Definition of Spam

Spam is the sending of unsolicited and unauthorized e-mails or online communications such as but not limited to bulletin boards, user groups or instant messaging services to individuals or businesses who do not know you personally. And who have not agreed or requested to receive your emails. Or have not provided their email address directly to the sender. Or an email sent to a recipient who would not have a reasonable expectation of receiving email from the sender. Spam can be a single email or a bulk mailing.

Posting messages to Usenet or News Group groups that explicitly forbid the posting of commercial solicitations or solicitations not pertaining to their content is Spam.

Buying a list of emails from a third party and individually or bulk emailing them is considered Spam.

Opt-out lists where a person is specifically required to request removal from a mailing list in order to prevent solicitation is Spam.

Hiring a company that is mailing out to a list of people with your opportunity that did not specifically request to receive your information beforehand is considered Spam.

Another source of Spam complaints.

FFA sites (Free For All) sites and similar programs have a HIGH RISK of generating Spam complaints because of the nature of that type of program.

Free For All Sites are sites with lots of links to peoples' web sites. You are told that if you list your site, you will have your own FFA site where you can send people to post their links. Your link will be replicated to many other sites. You are told that every time someone adds their link, they will get an email telling them about your opportunity.

Then, your link is also on their site, and everyone who adds a link to their site gets an email from you. This leads to an enormous amount of email going out from you, automatically. Many people who put links on FFA sites don't realize that the tons of email they get is simply a result of posting their link, then they complain of SPAM.

Malcolm

evannblack

09-05-2003, 12:27 PM

I took a look at your site and I think the spam idea would do a disservice to what you're trying to do. The site looks interesting but maybe you should put your money into advertising on South Florida newspaper & Radio/TV websites or other campaigns.

You may also want to consider throwing local get-togethers with a unique twist to get some press coverage. I'm in South Florida and always see local coverage of those 7-minute dates, etc. But please don't spam people.

I have enough headaches with the African and South African bankers who are trying to get some dead guy's money out of their abandoned bank accounts. They all need foreigners to collect this money and oddly enough they all have $26.5 Million laying in wait for them with a pay-off of 20% to me. I'm amazed how many dead rich guys there are that just abandon their money. I think it's up to 10 offers now. At least they started to change the dead guy's name. Thank goodness they don't have the money to do a spam campaign.

michaellittle

09-05-2003, 12:47 PM

Guess I need to put my two cents in also.

Spam is a problem, but the bigger problem is people calling an email spam that does not meet the federal guidlines for spam:

FTC Facts on SPAM (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/online/inbox.pdf)

Now on to my soap box. There are disreputable lead sources out there, guarenteed! But there are reputable ones also. Now I am a network marketer (*hearing the boos and hisses start*...lol) and I send mass amounts of email out each month. I only use "double opt-in" lists. This is also becoming an industry standard. What this means is an individual has answered an ad requesting information, in my case, on home based businesses. Now, either the same day or the next, an email is sent to this individual from the lead generation company to this individual again requesting that he/she "confirms" that they are open to an individual like myself to send them an opportunity or what ever service. So they have said "yes" twice. There are also those that I purchase that have been "phone surveyed" asking them if they are interested. I'd rather spend $300-400 on these type of leads than the other "harvested" leads. Now, this is not to say that I haven't been accused of spamming with these leads, but these people have no recourse because of the records of their acceptance to these conditions listed above. My, and hundreds of others that do business this way, are not the spammers but we get called it also.

My suggestion is this. If you get to a site that asks you if you are interested in a business opportunity, health food, or anything like that, don't respond to it or your name is in their system. In short, don't ask for it or you'll get it, then it is your fault, not the company sending the information you requested.

Also, on any email sent, by law there has to be an "Opt-Out" link or instructions for removal from the list. If they don't have this, this is Spam. If you use the link or do what the remove instructions tell you to do and you continue to receive the emails, this is Spam. Anything else is not Spam. Just like those dang telemarketers, if you have a prior business relationship with you they can call you and there is nothing you can do. The National "No-Call" list does not apply in this instance until you tell them not to call again.

Just remember people that I am probably one of the more avid businessmen against Spammers because they hurt my business too. And remember the old saying:

Call a Spade a Spade!

Call a Spammer a Spammer. Don't use it to blanket all the emails you receive as that is incorrect and unfair to those that go out of their way and expense to make sure they aren't a Spammer.

Well that ended up tp be .50 cents worth didn't it :)

Kitten

09-05-2003, 12:48 PM

My personal opinion here is like anything else in life if your not rich you go no where. The cost of advertising is just crazy and the little guys like myself get no where because we don't have the thousands of dollars it takes just to advertise your site with one company. Most these companies forget what it was like to start with nothing. so it causes small companies to do their best and that is send emails to whomever they can, so my opinion is the rich push us little guys to do things we hate doing just to be noticed by one or two while they are noticed by thousands. No one will even look at you for advertising if your don't have thousands to spend - been there done that sad society we live in and the saying the rich keep getting richer and the poorer keep getting poorer is so true ...

tsindos

09-05-2003, 12:49 PM

SPAMMERS must go to jail. I will always feel like this because I am tired of deleting messages in my inbox. Unsubscribing does not seen to help any more.
People or companies that offer SPAM mail service should immediately be shut down (and go to jail).
Enough is enough.

Moondancer

09-05-2003, 01:41 PM

But the problem I see with spam is this. If for some reason your host thinks you have sent out spam he can shut your site down. The laws are getting tougher and tougher with spam mail and I hear a lot of people say you do not get the response that you once did.

This is why you must use opt-in only lists. These are people who have already agreed to receive materials on certain subjects and specifically isn't considered to be spam (although close).

The problem with opt in lists is that you more often than not, get email that is of absolutely no interest to you whatsoever...Usually when you agree to those sort of lists you fill out a list of what interests you.. Very rarely do you get these emails but get hundreds about stuff you don't care about.. What happens is you agree to one list or set of advertisers.. that list sells your name to another list and so on.. That's how they make money .... it's a neverending struggle which is why it has become the enormous problem it has become to the point of government intervention.... Once lists are sold down the line, the original company has no control over what is sent to you. Yes, most have opt out instructions but you waste valuable time going through the motions for each and every email that comes your way which can number in the 500's in a very very short time.(that's what my hotmail is for, insecure little bugger). If it gets too full, they shut it down, I open another and so on.

There are some reputable marketers out there who manage their lists quite well but they are far far outnumbered by the disreputable and suffer the consequences of it.What could have been a great service became absolutely abused. Your ROI will not be worth the time and effort put into that kind of advertising. Pop up ads are the same. You'll get the traffic but the ROI will be 0 or next to zero.. and whatever company you use will have held up their end of the bargain.. won't be their fault you didn't get any revenue from it. It's easier and just as cost effective if not more so to use your money for top listings on search engines and local advertising.

Sorry to all you email marketers out there but you are outnumbered until somebody figures out a way to make the field more responsible for what is sent out.

As a struggling new business myself I sympathize with anyone trying to get a small corner of any market, but research is the best way to make these decisions. Good research into these matters can fill weeks worth of time doing it but you will make informed decisions about what your business needs to generate revenue. In business, it's better to do nothing than do the wrong thing.. a bad reputation is quicker earned than a good one and sticks around longer.

Gary Golden

09-05-2003, 01:45 PM

With the money you are talking about I would put it into advertising on Google adwords, I think you will see better results.
Additionally if you want to concentrate on local business join the chamber of commerce to get your name out. You can get a mailing list of all members included in the price. With this you will probably shell out $200. - $250. then put another $100. a month on Google adwords and you will be a lot better off.

Just my opinion!!

Islands

09-05-2003, 01:59 PM

They told me it would cost around $300 to buy their software that will give me access to their proxy. It will then cost me $100 per 1 million emails I send out.

DR954,
"Their software" is probably a desktop e-mailer application. You can find these for $39.95! Don't know what they mean by "their Proxy". Must be their server or one they've pirated out of China. Many of these servers are blacklisted. If the software sends direct to recipient mail servers, know that companies like AOL block anything from a dynamic IP location which is probably your computer.

Any time you contenplate a bulk mailing from a company ask for an audit report. You need to be able to confirm that what they say they will send results in actual deliveries or at least 90% delivery. A lot of opt-in lists are comprised of mailboxes that are over limit and therefore undeliverable.

Your best bet is to go with one of the companies listed in this forum where a respondent has had a recent good experience. Meaningfull audits are rarely available.

One man's spam is another man's ham! Stay away from spamming but, I see nothing wrong with bulk mailing.

Mel

Lando

09-05-2003, 02:05 PM

Sorry, but I agree with those that say 'no' to the email program. You seem to have a very legit site and one that sounds like what many people would like... BUT... (and you didn't mention if they broke down the demographics of the names) how many of these 350k are single?? The 'better half' might not go along with their spouse going to a singles party! hehe

Also, what age range? If you cater to a specific age range, say 18-40, just as an example, how many are in that range. Florida has a large retirement pop., in other words, a lot of older people that may have no interest at all even though they may have a computer and email address.

OK, you get my drift. I'd say that for the money, you could get a LOT better 'cost per customer' via local media outlets. Is there a singles magazine you can advertise in? For the money mentioned, sounds like you could do a quick TV/cable TV commercial. Maybe not, but a thought.

By the way, checked out your page source, you have no keywords or description and no real 'content' for a spider to index. You are already paying for the website, why not optimize it so that someone local could find it via a search engine?

There's a few other things I could mention, but I don't want to drag out this post, or no one will finish reading it! :) Just my thoughts...

Lando

Rabies

09-05-2003, 05:51 PM

Whatever you do, make sure you offer a WORKING OPT-OUT feature!!!

... unlike WebProWorld, which I've tried unsubscribing from 4 times now! And I still get the damn emails!!

>:-(

gypsy1964

09-05-2003, 05:53 PM

If I did not go to your site and specifically request information from YOU, don't send it to me. If I do ask for information from YOU then I only want it from YOU, not your partners, affiliates, or whatever you want to call tehm. If I want what they have I will ask them. Many times I do want information from someone, but I will choose not to receive it if the only way I can accomplish that is to agree to also receive "marketing opportunites" you "believe will interest" me.
The one part of this I did not see addressed in any of these posts was the huge amount of bandwidth that is hogged by spammers, thus clogging up the system for everyone else. And yes, an ISP will block a whole bunch of sites that are not guilty if a server has too many spam messages doing that.
I rarely see a spam email because I have installed Spambuster to delete them off the server before they ever hit my inbox. I used to block them with my email program by dumping them into the trash, but now I save a lot more time checking my mail since I can pick and choose which emails to receive and which to delete sight unseen.
I think your money would be better spent with advertising that will bring interested parties to your site. I don't know anyone who has ever bought anything from a spammer.
www.cyberactivist.blogspot.com

mattnel

09-05-2003, 07:31 PM

I think you will will find that everybody writing replies to this post is receiving spam from companies in whom they have no interest in whatsoever and certainly didn't opt in to get email from.

I now use spamfighter to catch most of my 40 or so spam emails a day but an important point to me is that it costs me megabyte usage dollars to download those unwanted message headers from my server.

Would people find it acceptable to have marketing companies ring them all day with reversed charge telephone calls?

alken

09-05-2003, 09:12 PM

Many of those so-called opt-in lists are NOT. Most of the tons of spam I was receiving until my ISP started filtering it out (from 400 to 2,000 a day!!!) were from those programs that lift your e-mails from your site. I have a 700 page website that is e-mail coded by section. All come to me, but I got tired of the "tell me more about your product" and no indication of what kind of product they were interested in (odor control, bioremediation, demulsifiers, fuel treatments, wastewater treatment, aquaculture probiotics, wastewater polymers or American Shorthair cats), so I coded all pages of the site, both by color and by e-mail address. ALL of those addresses (except two) go to ME and so all the spam and viruses appear to come from my addresses (falsely)and go to all of those addresses. I get banned from various servers, sending legitimate responses to clients and distributors, because somebody used MY addresses to send spam. I get all the nastigrams too, about spam I did not send. If you INSIST on sending spam, use a legitimate OPT-OUT address (most are false or use the opt-out to verify that my addresses are valid to spread them. Also for heaven's sake, USE YOUR OWN RETURN ADDRESS, not MINE or anyone elses. Then YOU can get the nastigrams, as well as any sales, NOT ME. I do not sell Viagra, life insurance, porn, or Nigerian scams. I am isolated in the woods, so my download is 28K at best, so hundreds of spam, viruses, and failed e-mail notes or virus detection from non-functioning outgoing e-mail addresses (only usable for incoming mail to ME) DID COST ME LEGITIMATE SALES BY NOT ALLOWING ME TO PROPERLY RESPOND TO REAL CLIENTS IN A TIMELY MANNER.

Valerie Anne Edwards
President, head researcher and web co-designer
Alken-Murray Corp. & Fenton Farm Inc.

virtualsilk

09-05-2003, 11:03 PM

SPAMMERS must go to jail.

Here in the USA at least, we are supposed to be "protected" by the Federal Trade Commission. This includes Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. §§ 41-58, as amended) http://www.ftc.gov/ogc/stat1.htm
Under this Act, the Commission is empowered, among other things, to (a) prevent unfair methods of competition, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce; (b) seek monetary redress and other relief for conduct injurious to consumers; (c) prescribe trade regulation rules defining with specificity acts or practices that are unfair or deceptive, and establishing requirements designed to prevent such acts or practices; (d) conduct investigations relating to the organization, business, practices, and management of entities engaged in commerce; and (e) make reports and legislative recommendations to Congress.

I apologize for my vehemence but I spend an hour a day getting rid of spam. That’s 10% of my billable hours and that hurts!

I also had the unhappy experience of being on a server with a “known spammer” and I could not send e-mail to several of my legitimate clients. Again, we're talking money and the bottom line.

I now enjoy ZoneAlarmPro’s MailWasher, I will see your spam before it gets to my mailbox and I will not only blacklist you, but possibly your entire domain. It will also bounce your spam back to you and fill up your in-box with “demons”.

One trick I use, owning my own domain name, is to sign up with legitimate websites as something like macromedia@virtualsilk.com. The interesting thing is that I have never received spam when I’ve done this.

Yes, I am angry.

TrafficProducer

09-06-2003, 05:18 AM

Spam- No thank you!!!

How to advertise websites. Methods of internet advertising and promotion. Here are some advertising methods that you may have considered to promote websites.

http://www.solutions.ukdots.com/advertising_methods.html

rocky1

09-06-2003, 09:26 AM

Have to agree 100% with the NO SPAM policy expressed herein. I have no blocker; I sort it all myself. I get even with those sending it by going through and making sure that every bit of it gets reported and shows up as spam, on some agency's anti-spam list. In which case it gets locked out of the mailboxes of all those viewers with blockers that you hope to hit, and all your advertising dollars go down the drain. I figure if spammers are going to demand my time, they're going to pay for it!

I look at 1 out of maybe 50, if the nekkid women pictured in the ad have really big hooters, otherwise, they all go in the trash bin! I did not opt-in for 99.9% of that mail, on ANY list, I don't care how many times the lists provided by some opt-in service stated I did. And, I don't want their merchandise or services, or I would have done a search for it, and found it myself!

Find a better way!

If you feel that you simply have too spam folks however.... I'd have to agree with Rabies on the opt out scenario, make the thing work because nothing irritates me worse than having to opt-out of a spam mail site repeatedly, except for having them lock up, offer error messages on entry or submit, sending you off to never-never land on the web instead of to their opt out link, or providing you with an e-mail address for opt-out that doesn't go anywhere. (That's sorta like saying I'm going to bother you with my irritating garbage, but don't bother me by sending it back if you don't want it.) And, by all means set the opt-out up so that it fills out the recipients e-mail address, so they don't have to sit there and type it in to tell you that you are sending them goodies, they didn't ask for!

CCollins

09-06-2003, 11:45 AM

You all have been very eloquent in your responses to SPAM from a user/receiver/sender point of view.
Now you get one from an email server owner. I HATE SPAM. To give you more technical knowledge than you need, here is how email works. You do not have to put a sender or a legitimate reply eamil address. It is required by email standards to allow email from no sender so first we are bombarded by Spam sent to you that contains no reliable method for you to know who it is from. So you might see a name in the FROM box but if you look at the Headers, it either does not exist or is bogus. The next bit of information you need to know is the SPAM has to go through all email servers between the sender and you so we have to forward along all this Spam FOR FREE!!!
Our servers get overloaded and we have to buy more equipment to service all this email traffic FOR FREE for the Spammer.
We also get email alert messages from email handled by our servers that tell us that the email address you are trying to OPT-OUT of does not exist. I get thousands of those notices a day. And I must look at all of them. They cannot be block with any Spam blocker programs because once in awhile, they are legitimate messages I need to relay to MY CUSTOMERS.
I am also doing everything I can to stop Spam mail from ever getting to my users. It is still crude, but the programs are getting better and better everyday. Then it will not be necessary to blacklist email servers which cause problems with all the sites. Plus it takes days to go through the requirements to get off the blacklists, all the while not being able to receive any legitimate email.

So, your request as to whether you should use Spam, forget it. It won't pay off.
I know what I am talking about, I supported corporate email servers before opening my own business in 1997 when the use of the Internet got popular with the masses.

dmcgill

09-06-2003, 10:03 PM

Just take a look at the replies to this post. This topic always leads to a great deal of discussion and that is a good way to be. My upbringing told me that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and that is the way it is with unsolicited emails. There may be some great bargins, the most interesting news item, a tool that could help me become more successful, a spelling program... whatever but what ruins it for me is when I get the garbage about the size of one's manhood, the magic pill that will repair your relationship, the teenage girls doing things that no one needs to know about and the one sure method of getting your riches (by just reading this ebook). If it wasn't for those, I would say that it is ok because all I have to do is hit the delete button. But they still keep coming. I like others have tried to unsubscribe. It makes no difference. I have my own server and have had attacks on it with people hacking into my sendmail program and sending out thier stuff. I have installed filters, blocks and other things to keep the garbage out, (stuff I don't want) but it still keeps coming.
I think that email marketing could have been a great tool but it has been abused and so even though I don't believe the Government has any right to make it criminal to send them, I don't like them. They are a waste of bandwidth, slow the internet down which costs us all money and are a general pain.

There is my 25 cents!!
Dmcgill

seasoned

09-07-2003, 08:08 PM

You are perhaps the ***FIRST*** person I have EVER heard that even openly admits this is a "SPAM CAMPAIGN" from the get-go.

SPAM is to the marketers world what Anabolic Steroids are to the weight-lifting world. They:
1. May get you big fast.
2. Could destroy your ability to remain big.
3. Could DESTROY YOU.(businesses have been lost due to spam just as people have died, or gotten various diseases and cancers, from Steroids.)
4. Destroy your reputation.
5. Cheapen any success you have.

BTW some of the people here don't seem to understand SPAM. They say "If your **HOST** thinks you spammed". That is flat out WRONG! It should be:

If ANY of your hosts, sponsors, advertisers, etc... think you spammed.

They ALSO say "One day spammers may have to pay".

The fact is that spammers HAVE been charged upwards of $50 per incident, and have been sued for DoS.

Two companies I dealt with LOST THEIR BUSINESS for some time because one of their affiliates spammed! They said they would do what some sponsors say in the T.O.S. they will do with spammers. SUE THEM, and hold them responsible.

and the U.S. IS trying to pass SPAM specific laws. Of course, various US states HAVE already. CA, for example, has current laws that are even more strict than the federal proposal.

Think of it this way. Spam can be like a air compressor in blowing up a balloon. One needle prick(spam complaint) and the whole thing can blow up in your face.

BTW, some jerks claim "BUT I DIDN'T KNOW...... I'm just a NEWBIE!!!!". Well, you can't use that defense. If someone sues you and finds out about your post, YOU'RE DEAD! If they lose their business, be prepared to lose your shirt.(An American expression meaning "Be prepared to lose EVERYTHING you have!!!")

Steve

voicedialing

09-08-2003, 05:48 PM

...on toast. Now they have a turkey SPAM.

Hello everybody,
My real question: What do you think about spammers? About spam?
First I would like to say you are all wonderful people with legitimate issues. Please don't kill the messsenger, I'm just looking for opinions.

About spammers:
1) Kill Them All!
2) I don't like it but I tolerate it because I can't do anything about it.
3) It really doesn't bother me too much - delete and filter.
4) Could care less one way or the other. It's just advertising, how else would we find out about stuff.
5) Other?

When is email spam?

A) Is an email spam if you send an email to someone asking for their permission to send them email? For example, you're an expert in a field offering free information they could use.

B) Is it spam if the email in question is about information without solicitation? You're not selling anything directly with the email.

C) Is it spam if you send someone an email they forgot they opted in for?

D) Is it spam if you tell them who you are and offer your personal contact information and truly will delete them from your list if they ask?

E) Is it all spam and let's just kill them all.

I'd just like to hear poeple's opinions on this subject. This is a very interesting and insightful subject. It seems to stir more emotion than current world events.
Just in case I need to clarify, I'm being sarcastic about the killing part.

Thanks,
Kevin O'Donovan
PS The SPAM people ask you to differentiate them with the "other" spam by using capital letters for their product. Just a little trivia for your next family gathering.