View Full Version : What is SEO?
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 12:49 PM
We do a great deal of research, and I just can't tell you how many "SEO Sites" we have visited lately that seem to purchase every SEO software they can buy, and sell any one of 5 to 10 minute reports for hundreds of dollars.
Let's just get the ugly truth out.
There is a lot more to true SEO/SEM than what your next door neighbor (competitor) gets from those same "canned" reports!
These kind of "shady" operations eventually give us all a bad name.
This is a dark post, but I don't like these games, and neither should anyone else.
If you think that SEO is a couple, 3 or $400 canned SEO software reports for a client then what? Surely you are not "kidding" anyone there!
That's just "dirty" money!
Strickly My Opinion!
I'd sure like to talk about just what we think SEO is, though.
If I am being too "altruistic" for you guys, in a difficult business:
I'd bet my left n__, your clients would take a different view.
Let's play.
Ken
KeithO
03-03-2006, 03:10 PM
explain what you consider a "canned report".
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 03:16 PM
KiethO,
I am not going to name the leading SEO softwares here, this is not a commercial break for any of them. We all know who they are in this business.
If anyone else chooses to do so, I won't object. That's not my objective or choice.
Ken
KeithO
03-03-2006, 03:18 PM
you didn't answer the question. i just want to clarify your post. you consider a report printed out by a SEO program to be a canned report. correct?
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 03:21 PM
KiethO:
you consider a report printed out by a SEO program to be a canned report. correct?
Absolutely!... You couldn't be any more "Dead on the Money" there!
There are many other considerations to take into account.
In every review I have made, they rank "shallow" at best!, compared to a manual review.
and to churn them for revenue is obscene in my way of thinking.
I hope that satisfies, I don't know how to answer your question any more succinctly.
Purely based on experience!
Ken
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Let's get real here, it's an immature industry based on extreme fluidity!
What does that mean?
Every application is behind times, at best!
I haven't seen anything over there impressive yet, have you?
If anyone can show something really impressive there, let's take a hard look at "the mill".
No, I am not disagreeing that those mills offer the opportunity to generate income, but I am calling in to question "real value", especially when the same advice is handed competitor to competitor... You bet I am!
Ken
KeithO
03-03-2006, 04:18 PM
KiethO:
you consider a report printed out by a SEO program to be a canned report. correct?
Absolutely!... You couldn't be any more "Dead on the Money" there!
There are many other considerations to take into account.
In every review I have made, they rank "shallow" at best!, compared to a manual review.
and to churn them for revenue is obscene in my way of thinking.
I hope that satisfies, I don't know how to answer your question any more succinctly.
Purely based on experience!
Ken
ok. now, I use the ranking tool in webceo because that is what clients care the most about. i have a custom word doc that i send to the clients that includes other things but its not just about the ranking reports to me. however this does fall into the pricerange you mentioned.
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 05:41 PM
Can we define what SEO is here, or not?
We shouldn't all get "choked up" suddenly.
What's the deal, here?
I need to go back to Engineering if all SEO is these days, is running some cannned software and generating canned reports for clients.
Can anyone help save the face of SEO here?
I am going to ask again:
What is SEO?
Ken
greeneagle
03-03-2006, 06:02 PM
KiethO,
This is a hard business, and there are some good tools. I am not discounting that at all, in fact there are several I want to pick up and market in an affiliate capacity, but I will not represent anything I don't find real value in.
I'd like to hear real time opinions from experienced sources. Let's see some value in ensuing discussions here,
I have an open slate, but lets look at value. I don't eat or serve my clients; "potted meat".
Many of us feel the same way, as I suspect you do.
Ken
Duncan Pollock
03-03-2006, 07:55 PM
Ken: In some respects, there's a similar question that can be asked about real estate agents. What really makes a good one?
And the answer -- to my mind at least -- is personalized service.
In the real estate business, there's a whole host of what you call canned stuff. And a somewhat overwhelmingly majority of agents uses it -- as, it's possible to say, their websites do.
But find a good agent -- which, in my opinion, isn't all that easy to do -- and you'll get someone who has a built in empathy to what you really need and want, be it as a seller or as a buyer.
Oh sure, there are the catchphrases such as "getting you the most money for your house in the quickest possible time and with the least amount of (shall we call it?) aggravation." Or "we'll help you find your house by mailing you the new listings that hit the market every day until the right one turns up."
Tosh! What every seller and every buyer wants is someone who'll focus absolutely on what it's going to take to sell their house or what's going to be involved in finding them the "one right place" and, truth to tell, no two situations are exactly alike.
What's required is an agent who'll largely ignore the pat phrases and learned-by-rote responses. It's someone who'll bring a totally personalized approach to each individual's needs and wants -- and will then move heaven and earth to get them fulfilled.
So am I using this post merely to heap praise on the (relatively) small number of agents who do the job that the selling and buying public deserve but -- again in my view -- seldom receive?
No sir! Rather, I'm trying to share your concerns, Ken, about what SEO ought to do but also fails to do in a considerable volume of cases.
There isn't, as you imply -- or certainly ought not to be -- a standard "do this, followed by that, and then something else" approach that's going to do justice to a site that needs and deserves it. There has to be a highly individualized analysis of what presently exists and what precisely needs to be done to bring about improvements.
Sure, there are principles -- just as there are in real estate -- but I'll agree with you, Ken, that the good (may I use the term?) SEOite will take the same approach that a good agent does. In other words, what is it that YOU need and never mind what everyone else does, says, or thinks.
Yes? No?
Duncan
Tubby
03-03-2006, 09:14 PM
Duncan, good Post.
"get someone who has a built in empathy to what you really need and want,"
This would be universal advise when buying anything.
that does not dismiss the value of a 'canned report'. . . but the best report needs an experienced eye to evaluate the information it contains.
I could hand someone the tools of my trade - but that would not make them a tradesman. In truth If I did give someone the tools of my trade, I would expect some serious damage to occur. If I were an electrician, I expect my tools would be enough to get someone electrocuted, or a home burn down.
This Forum is full of post from people wondering why their income has dissapeared, I think that is ample evidence that some of us are not using some SEO method or tools properly.
Dismiss aquired skills at your peril.
What is SEO . . No Idea,
I use 'SUO' Site User optimisation
Example, I have never used a search engine to find Webproworld - Webproworld has optimized me to call back regularly. . no google ranking is likely to unoptimize me drastically . .
Don't blame the tool blame the craftsman that uses it.
There is a place for reports that are generated by software and there is a place for more personalized analysis of the problems.
I am not sure if you are sincere or are just trying to stir up controversy yet again, Ken but every one of us here who practices SEO knows full well what we do and the reasons we do it.
We really don't need a discussion of the basics yet again, and epecially I don't want to have to listen to any more of your wild theories.
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 05:33 AM
Wow!
You captured the "Spirit" of my post "dead on" Duncan.
Thanks for the great analogy between the different industries.
And the answer -- to my mind at least -- is personalized service.
In my way of thinking; We live in a highly impersonal culture, but the very last thing a business owner or entrepreneur wants from a professional is another "cattle prod" approach, especially when it comes to their livlihood.
Many times clients and potential clients have tied everything they own and can mortgage into their business...That's real personal, and they need to be met with a degree of respect by the SEO community that understands and addresses the underlying importance of thier needs.
Great Post Duncan.
Thanks,
Ken
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 05:54 AM
Tubby, you also captured a theme of this post well:
What is SEO . . No Idea,
I use 'SUO' Site User optimisation
It seems to me that some of the SEO community is not in touch with the "bottom line", or they are more in touch with their own "bottom line" than thier clients'.
Every client case we decide to take on has to be evaluated at hundreds of points including many that can not possibly be included in "canned" software output, such as on-page psychological factors.
I like your term "SUO", it seems extremely appropriate.
Ken
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 06:05 AM
Mel:
Don't blame the tool blame the craftsman that uses it.
You and Tubby expressed that quite well. They are just tools, and I really hope that they aren't used so much as an end product.
As far as your inferrences to my being "controversial" and projecting "wild theories", let's think about that for just a minute.
If I remember correctly you have a Mechanical? Engineering background. I would have expected someone with that knowledge and experience to embrace "theoretical thinking" closer to "center", especially relishing subjects that are "unknown" and or hidden, such as SE algorithms.
On top of that, yes, I do like discussing/dissecting controversial issues, because there is value there to be extracted most of the time, or it wouldn't be controversial in the first place.
Ken
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 06:33 AM
KeithO,
I dropped you earlier and didn't mean to:
I use the ranking tool in webceo because that is what clients care the most about. i have a custom word doc that i send to the clients that includes other things but its not just about the ranking reports to me.
It sounds like you use SEO tools to augment a personal touch approach. What is your take on their effectivity in regards to how much manual time has to be applied for a given client? How much time do those tools save and what are your client's response?
The reason I am asking is that clients we have on monthly maintenance programs receive monthly executive performance briefings, reviewing thier stats. We also send e-mails when daily stat monitoring reveals extraordinary potential client/customer site interest.
Ken
ctabuk
03-04-2006, 07:15 AM
My sticky in the Marketing thread is one of the most read posts that is in that forum. I use Internet Business Promoter (IBP) for untold numbers of people that are new to SEO -It costs me $300 per year and I offer it free, not as a sure fired solution to SEO but as a guideline as to who their site competitors are, what IBP's interpretation of an SE's view on their site, and it is an interpretation just that. My e-mail box gets hundreds of thank you's every year, so that's my philanthropic side. Some people say 'don't use automated software on your site' and then run www.sitereportcard.com or thousands of other PR checkers like http://livepr.raketforskning.com to look at their site, IBP is no different, just more complex and in my humble opion 'helpful'software. I certainly will not stop using it and judging by my e-mail post hundreds love what I do.
dharrison
03-04-2006, 07:45 AM
Hi all
Search Engine Optimisation, in my mind is what is says on the tin - optimising a site for the search engines (or in some cases, manipulating) and charging £XXX amount for stastical reports on a monthly basis so the customer can look at some basic (and some meaningless) statistics to show what their website is doing.
Search Engine Marketing, on the other hand is: optimising a site so it is more user-friendly which visitors can find informative, use with ease, come back to time and again; update the content on a regular basis (all of which in turn is recognised by the search engines); Monitoring the said customer's website on a regular basis and acting on those results so their website gets maximum benefit.
I do agree with KeithO though. I use Web CEO also as this uses a tracking script to monitor all website activity, as a result creating more in-depth statistical reports, how often someone visits the site conversion tracking, web site quality (broken links etc), downtime of server and much more. It is a all-in-one software that any SEM company's life easier, but it still needs either an individual or group to act on the information given (as Duncan was saying).
I do know what canned reports you mean Ken: The type that generates reports using the standard log report files (I am not saying who either). I must confess the hosting I use does this as standard. I allow my customers to access this info (until I officially launch my SEM service next month), but I do not charge for it.
I have one of these so-called SEOs working(??) on one of my customer's websites. When I was on maternity leave, my customer in his desparation for more traffic signed up to one of these "SEO companies" (said with contempt) and all they have done thus far is stuff keywords in every available space within the page and hide links within the navy background of the site. The links aren't exactly the same colour, but slightly off shade which looks even worse. He is my inspiration for setting up an SEM service.
Just my quids worth.
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 09:24 AM
A fellow moderator (ctabuk) and good friend sent me an IBP report in response to request. He also asked me if I wanted him to post it here. My reply was no.
I am going to entertain it on my own bandwidth:
http://www.mountaineagleweb.com/Sidebar/TrafficFactsPCS.pdf
This is the site that was reviewed there:
www.precisioncompletion.com
Let's tear it up (my hide) and get on down here.
Let's really have a serious look at what these reports have to reveal.
It's my hide, time and bandwidth, let's do it!
Ken
My private:
SEO definition 1:
Improving a site's (the pages of the site) postion on the SERP's of one SE without worsening it other SE's SERP's.
Professional SEO definition 1:
Improving a site's (the pages of the site) postion on the SERP's for a sustainable increase in free cash flow.
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 10:38 AM
kgun,
I like that definition:
Professional SEO definition 1:
Improving a site's (the pages of the site) postion on the SERP's for a sustainable increase in free cash flow.
But where did that come from? Salute, if it is yours.
Ken
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 10:51 AM
dharrison:
...and all they have done thus far is stuff keywords in every available space within the page and hide links within the navy background of the site...
That's what we are talking about here, too. Let's ride it out.
Ken
Note: The underline of sustainable in the definition.
greeneagle
03-04-2006, 11:05 AM
kgun,
You can bet I noticed that "disclaimer".
LOL
Ken
dharrison
03-04-2006, 11:54 AM
dharrison:
...and all they have done thus far is stuff keywords in every available space within the page and hide links within the navy background of the site...
That's what we are talking about here, too. Let's ride it out.
Ken
In that case they are dirty company playing dirty tricks for dirty money.
Who also need a virtual slap on the wrists for making it difficult for those of us who are doing it by the book.
Ridden enough or need I go on? ;)
Steven1976a
03-05-2006, 10:25 AM
In regards to Mel comments
"We really don't need a discussion of the basics yet again, and epecially I don't want to have to listen to any more of your wild theories."
I think we need to remember that new people sign up or visit to webporworld every day. A lot of these people will be new to SEO and all of different levels. For these people I think basics are required time to time.
Steven1976a
03-05-2006, 10:29 AM
In addition
"I don't want to have to listen to any more of your wild theories."
I actually find Kens postings some of the most interesting for exploring theories and discussions involved with SEO so please keep posting Ken as some of us enjoy them
...and the blind shall lead the blind.
dharrison
03-05-2006, 03:18 PM
As I wouldn't have called anything Ken mentioned "wild" or "stirring up controversy" so I must also be blind.
So Mel, what is your take on SEO as we have obviously got it all so wrong? :)
ctabuk
03-06-2006, 04:11 AM
Debbie, from my perspective I would simply take a look at Mels Website to get his views on SEO, he has a list there of his keywords and SERP and he is extremely honest, he has one that say's 'dropped to 28 re-optimizing' and I think that say's it all. I use IBP to help me to know exactly where I am, and going by Mels results and the names of some of the Search Engines where he has good rankings then he either has IBP or something very similar. Don't forget I don't make money from SEO work, I don't do it, I am a financier and a Mortgage Broker. In this forum I'm the guy who stands outside of the arena merely looking in to see where people make their fundamental mistakes. Optimise for your clients, not the SE's.
Ken has put up my IBP report on his clients site, my personal view is that there is still work to do and always will be. That is why Mel has got it right here. You have to keep your site up to date, and reoptimizing is not just a case of doing the tags then the pages, it is a case of finding what either your client or what you are trying to sell and updating accordingly.
greeneagle
03-06-2006, 04:56 AM
We can all pick apart any Site we choose at any given time with the use of SEO Tools or by manual examination.
The fact is though, most of us are not in a position to offer unlimited free services.
In fact that is an issue I have to counter all the time. Everyone seems to want something for free, without much understanding of the time and effort that must go into this business, not to mention hardware and software upgrades and replacement.
We also have to deal with limited client resources (time and capital) in the real world, while providing the best service and product available within those constraints.
I certainly hope that if we decide to examine the IBP report posted, it will be to examine what is available there and not in the context of, let's tear down a MOD's imperfect site. That's just not the game I am offering, in any spirit of context here.
Ken
ctabuk
03-06-2006, 05:12 AM
Nobody is saying that, not a soul, we are not tearing down a Mods site,neither will we or any other site, the discussion here is 'ongoing SEO'- If you or any SEO Company/Individual have a relationship with your client then you must be in constant contact and update accordingly. Faglork is my SEO guy, he does my site because, A - I trust him and totally respect his views & B - because we work extremely well together. If I see something new in Social Housing or Mortgages I immedately e-mail Alex and we do the optimisation between us. I'm in marketing, he's into SEO - I pay him and thoroughly enjoy doing so.
And if he tells me off for having a whacky idea, I grin and I take it. And that is the relationship that clients MUST have with their SEO guys. Update, Update and more update.
greeneagle
03-06-2006, 05:35 AM
ctabuk:
If you or any SEO Company/Individual have a relationship with your client then you must be in constant contact and update accordingly.
That's "Ideal", when it happens, but again, many entrepreneurs, especially engaged in a startup work 16hr days and have to meter thier capital outlay.
In those regards, I would bet that most of our Sites and client sites aren't truly representative of our capabilities or knowledge at any given time.
In fact, the more successful you make them, the busier they become and the harder they are to contact.
That is why I believe it is a better exercise to see just what is available (tool wise) and how they may best be used.
Ken
dharrison
03-06-2006, 05:39 AM
David, I was trying to open up the debate a bit and get Mel's opinion for that reason. Its all great to disagree heartily with someone, but why do you object? How do you see SEO/SEM etc? Was the vital info I was trying to get out of Mel.
I have seen Mel's site, thanks. Hence why I was asking the question. Being a newbie to professional SEM, I am trying to see the perspective of someone that obviously has it so finely tuned.
If I sounded patronising, that was not my intention, that was just faceless forum again. Yet another example why I think this forum would benefit from using smileys.
ctabuk
03-06-2006, 06:24 AM
Debbie got in while I was drafting this reply to Greeneagle. ctabuk self edit
Hold on, now that's what we brits call 'Rocking Horse Manure'And that is not aimed at you Ken, it's a stock in trade reply. Let me elaborate.
1 - If an entrepreneur is not told that he is going to need to constantly update his site and that it is going to cost X then the SEO ain't doing his or her job.
An SEO person should (IMO)have the same status as a Bank Manager but a whole lot more fun!
If you want to eat steak, get a day job, if you are going to be an entrepreneur, eat baked beans for the first 2 years, no holidays, eat drink and think Content and updates.
Do you know the thing that pisses me off the most? Banks that are not teaching their staff to tell new businesses to join forums!!!
ctabuk
03-06-2006, 06:28 AM
David, I was trying to open up the debate a bit and get Mel's opinion for that reason. Its all great to disagree heartily with someone, but why do you object? How do you see SEO/SEM etc? Was the vital info I was trying to get out of Mel.
I have seen Mel's site, thanks. Hence why I was asking the question. Being a newbie to professional SEM, I am trying to see the perspective of someone that obviously has it so finely tuned.
If I sounded patronising, that was not my intention, that was just faceless forum again. Yet another example why I think this forum would benefit from using smileys.
Hey Debbie, I have no doubt that Mel will join in, different time zones, everybody and anybody who knows you, knows your'e fantastic and you sure don't need smilies!
...and the blind shall lead the blind.
And in the blind's world, the oneeyed person is Princess (http://www.xn--leogrr-fya.no/). (Should be viewed in Firefox or Opera since IE is not updated with IDN's (Standard ISO 3166)).
Who want to write the book:
"The joy of SEO, outdated when entering the market"
I nominate you Kgun as I am not sure that there is anyone else here who shares that opinion.
Let me ask you Kgun, a client comes in and says I want an economic analysis of my companies profits two years from now and I don't want anything that you can't prove down to the penny. Can you do it?
Likewise SEOs may not have the Rosetta stone to Googles algo, but they use tried and true principals which produce results which in turn produce profits for their clients. Kind of like mathematical economic analysis No?
As I wouldn't have called anything Ken mentioned "wild" or "stirring up controversy" so I must also be blind.
So Mel, what is your take on SEO as we have obviously got it all so wrong? :)
If you want my take on SEO it will fill a book, but in a nutshell:
First decide what SEO is and to that I say that it is almost what it says it is:
Search Engine Optimization
except that it means optimizing sites for search engines.
Now that is a pretty simple concept but the details of how you do that and what you do is a bit more rigorous;
While in the strict sense of the term it might be taken to may only getting high rankings, but that by itself is kind of a useless endeavour as getting say a high ranking for hydrocracked peanut shells may not have any financial benefits.
So in a Nutshell I would break it down to:
STRICTLY SEO
1. Research of keywords.
2. Analysis of the competition for those keywords.
3. Determination of the keywords you want to rank for.
4. Gaining high rankings for the selected keywords.
Practical SEO
To the above you have to add,
5. Ensuring that SERP titles and descrptions are crafted in such a way as to entice viewers to click on them.
6. Ensuring that the page that the vistitor sees is relevant and informational.
IMO anything beyond the above general items has to be considered in the realm of Search Engine Marketing.
Note that I have carefully avoided describing how to do each of the above things or the substeps required to do them, but I believe that so far this discussion is centered mostly on Item 4.
Now how much you want to provide you clients in a mix of SEO vs. SEM is up to you as is are methods you use to achieve them.
Mel.
Good points above.
I think an expert SEO would relate everything to content (design and even code) on the site. He may also propose rewriting x % of the site. (As an economist from the university of Oslo, trained in sceptical thinking, I would even propose that you rewrite y % of your site before I look at it. I assume that you know more now than when you wrote it.).
It is easier to say how other people should do it than do it yourself. I can train a person to become a good trader, but that does not mean that I would have the qualifications to be a good trader myself.
If you ask me for books (http://www.multifinansit.no/ehandel/nedlastninger.htm), they are all in Norwegian (right column of the table).
dharrison
03-07-2006, 02:36 AM
STRICTLY SEO
1. Research of keywords.
2. Analysis of the competition for those keywords.
3. Determination of the keywords you want to rank for.
4. Gaining high rankings for the selected keywords.
Practical SEO
To the above you have to add,
5. Ensuring that SERP titles and descrptions are crafted in such a way as to entice viewers to click on them.
6. Ensuring that the page that the vistitor sees is relevant and informational.
IMO anything beyond the above general items has to be considered in the realm of Search Engine Marketing.
All the above steps are in my new SEM service, Mel. So hopefully I am on the right track (thanks for clarifying anyway).
I think the point Ken was making was based on the half wits that stuff keywords in at every given opportunity (image alt tags, Comments, etc), create links that are the same colour as the background (or thereabouts) and then have the front to label themselves as SEO (correct me if I am wrong).
Anyone who wants to build a website can call themselves an SEO quite legally even though they may have no qualifications, whereas that is not true of an accountant, lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc.
The sad thing is that all that simple spam would rank just as well if it were visible on the page.
KeithO
03-07-2006, 10:27 AM
KeithO,
I dropped you earlier and didn't mean to:
I use the ranking tool in webceo because that is what clients care the most about. i have a custom word doc that i send to the clients that includes other things but its not just about the ranking reports to me.
It sounds like you use SEO tools to augment a personal touch approach. What is your take on their effectivity in regards to how much manual time has to be applied for a given client? How much time do those tools save and what are your client's response?
The reason I am asking is that clients we have on monthly maintenance programs receive monthly executive performance briefings, reviewing thier stats. We also send e-mails when daily stat monitoring reveals extraordinary potential client/customer site interest.
Ken
As far as I can tell, most of my clients just look at their rankings. Most of the issues that I have with my clients is that I require approval from them before I will make any updates to their site. I give the advice to them as a guide. Some have their own designers and want to keep things internalized so I am simply updating them on their rankings in an easy to read format.
The hardest part is getting clients to understand the dedication it takes to increase rankings. They get it in their head somehow that by paying us X amount each month, they will magically be ranked #1 for whatever term they want. One example I recently had was a site that signed up for our reporting program for a year. Their site had about 6 pages but only 1 page had any actual text. The rest were image heavy. I spent 8 months sending them reports with little progress in rankings due to IBL's. The client cancelled their contract because of this. When I explained to the higher ups that the client ignored my advice and specific recommendations for months, they began to see the problems.
The problem I have here is that I started just a year ago. Up until then, I have never heard of SEO. Most of the clients I have were signed on before I was hired and had little interaction with the previous guy. I am alot more proactive in contacting clients to get things done and its when clients see that I am trying to get them to do things, they want out. I am not sure if the sales reps had set lofty expectations but I have beat it into them that they can't garauntee #1 rankings. When I meet with clients, I show them the print out from Google about SEO's and point out several of the major points to set their expectations early.
However in regards to the initial question about what is an SEO, I see it as someone who goes through a Web site and improves it for search engine spiders. The SEO will do the general onsite things to help gain traction. A step further would be a SEM who would then work on the link campaigns to help improve traffic.
I could probaby say volumes more but I was out sick yesterday and have things to catch up on.
dharrison
03-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Anyone who wants to build a website can call themselves an SEO quite legally even though they may have no qualifications, whereas that is not true of an accountant, lawyer, doctor, engineer, etc.
The sad thing is that all that simple spam would rank just as well if it were visible on the page.
Yes it would just make the page look blinking awful(if my customers one was any example to go by).
You know my least common denominator for SEO, my SEO rule, In the end SEO is about good design and content (http://www.forumnorway.com/viewtopic.php?p=31#31). Getting related incoming links with foccused anchor text is part of that relation.