Microsoft crack down on use of product names hurts rankings [Archive]

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inzones

10-08-2005, 12:02 PM

I have a website that sells PowerPoint and Microsoft Word templates. Recently an attorney from Microsoft contacted me and said that I could no longer user the terms "PowerPoint Template" or "PowerPoint Zone" in my website www.inzones.com. They also said I could no longer use one of my aliases www.powerpointzone.com. I dutifully changed the wording in my website and now find that I have slipped to page two for a search on "PowerPoint Templates" while many of my competitors remain in top positions using the words "PowerPoint Template" all over their sites.

This does not seem fair because I am following the law and the people who aren't get higher rankings. Just wondered if anyone else is experiencing anything similar.

jacobwissler

10-09-2005, 12:39 AM

If you try to figure out why search engines do things, you will drive yourself crazy and never find a logical conclusion. SERPS change for reasons that no one will ever fully understand.

cspelts

10-09-2005, 12:59 AM

an attorney from Microsoft contacted me and said that I could no longer user the terms "PowerPoint Template"
It looks like you've switched to "Templates for Microsoft Powerpoint" which seems like a smart move to me. Google in particular seems to be getting better and better at providing relevent results, even if the words are in a slightly different order, or plural rather than singular, etc.

I also have to say that it would do no good to ignore the lawyers like your competitors seem to be doing. I was involved in a sort-of-similar situation, and we balked, and the letters just kept coming. We finally got somewhere when we attenpted to reason with them, but we had to give a little, to get them to give a little.

compusolver

10-10-2005, 04:14 PM

Microsoft will sue whether they're right or wrong and they hire big-gun lawfirms who intimidate other lawyers just by showing up. Not a good idea to ignore them. Been there, done that.

DrTandem1

10-10-2005, 04:30 PM

It depends whether your competitors are licensed retailers of Microsoft products. They could be selling the real-deal while you may be selling something that works on their PowerPoint. Of course, they could just be outside of the country where Microsoft's attorney's have no clout.

Trademarks must be protected by their owners. If they are not, the owner could lose it. If you think Microsoft is tough, watch out for Disney.

osnet

10-10-2005, 07:42 PM

Microsoft will sue whether they're right or wrong and they hire big-gun lawfirms who intimidate other lawyers just by showing up. Not a good idea to ignore them. Been there, done that.

Do what my friend does when big companies attack over things like this. Find out who the lawfirm/lawyers are.
Dig up enough dirt to make them think you work for the CIA and even M$ lawyers will leave you alone.

I heard that a lawyer for a fortune 500 company showed up in court, not realizing he had a no-show warrant in another state. State/Local warrants are public record.

khurramali

10-11-2005, 12:17 AM

AccuraCast

10-11-2005, 05:19 AM

I dutifully changed the wording in my website and now find that I have slipped to page two for a search on "PowerPoint Templates" while many of my competitors remain in top positions using the words "PowerPoint Template" all over their sites.
Maybe just the eternal cynic in me talking, but are you SURE it was a Microsoft attorney on the phone and not just some smart-ass competitor trying to get one up??

inzones

10-11-2005, 07:59 AM

I'm sure it was Microsoft. She had an authentic Microsoft email address, which I replyed to. When she didn't write back after a week or so, I tracked the attorney down by telephone. She was very polite and helpful.

onlinetv

10-11-2005, 08:18 AM

You can beat your competitors by getting more relevant links to your website and doing more SEO.

Hell ask microsoft to put a link from their power point templates page to your website to help you get your rankings back.

Be polite and explain your problem, i am sure they will understand and give you space to breathe.

Absolutely. If you show value add to Microsoft they will do a lot FOR you. You just have to get through to them and better to use some account exec to get up to a department head. I have the head of Media Player for obvious reasons. Use the telephone at first to at least get a name and direct email.

Lawyers are just like the flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz, you have to ignore them and go to the source and get them to give you those rights back. It is not ignoring them going deeper into the den.

I assume you add value, they will love you and want reciprocal links and may even do merchandising deals.

marcel

10-11-2005, 09:16 AM

interesting thread...

ctabuk

10-11-2005, 09:57 AM

Yes a great thread. I dare not tell you a URL that I own! I'm hoping when Bill Gates finds out he will ask me politely to sell it to him!

khurramali

10-11-2005, 12:43 PM

DrTandem1

10-11-2005, 01:01 PM

osnet

10-11-2005, 01:58 PM

Hell ask microsoft to put a link from their power point templates page to your website to help you get your rankings back.

Be polite and explain your problem, i am sure they will understand and give you space to breathe.

Absolutely. If you show value add to Microsoft they will do a lot FOR you. You just have to get through to them and better to use some account exec to get up to a department head. I have the head of Media Player for obvious reasons. Use the telephone at first to at least get a name and direct email.

I assume you add value, they will love you and want reciprocal links and may even do merchandising deals.

Not sure which which program this would fit into but they do have a Partner program for Value-Added solution providers.

Worth a try - and gets you past the trademark issues.

maniactive

10-11-2005, 03:27 PM

Judy:

I see that you are in the top 10 at Google for "powerpoint templates" (minus quotes) anyway...and that you use the term in your page titles. So it doesn't look like you've stopped using the phrase entirely, at any rate!

And I doubt if it was really a MS lawyer who contacted you. Here's why:

I use the term "PowerPoint templates" at my site all the time...and I've used that particular phrase for over six years. As of today, my Maniactive site is in the top 10 for the phrase "PowerPoint Downloads" at Google, Yahoo!...and most interestingly at MSN -- the Microsoft search site. (I just checked: I'm in the top five at MSN for "free powerpoint templates." - no quotes.)

If a MS lawyer contacted me, I would request that they talk to their PR department. Remember how badly Apple got creamed in the press for trying to take down a Macintosh fan site?

Further, why would MSN continue to rank me well for PowerPoint related searches...if Microsoft was really concerned about copyright violations? Why wouldn't they just dump me (and everyone else who dared use their term) in the SERPs?

Microsoft WANTS people using their products to spread ideas online. They love software fan sites. They want you blogging about new and creative ways to use their software.

And free speech means that MS can't say anything about truthful reviews of their products. Or stop you from explaining your views on how to use their software better (which I assume includes using your PowerPoint templates!)

For example, how can you review Microsoft's PowerPoint Templates if you don't use the words "PowerPoint Templates"? Perhaps a daily blog of your feelings on "Dad's Tie" could help you....but like I said earlier, it doesn't look like you really need help! :)

inzones

10-11-2005, 10:14 PM

Laura,
I'm pretty sure it really was a Microsoft attorney. They requested that I use the words "Templates for Microsoft PowerPoint" rather than "PowerPoint Templates". Originally I removed all occurances PowerPoint templates including the page title, but when I slipped to page two of Google, I put it back into the page title to see if that alone would help me move up. I'll remove it when I see other sites removing PowerPoint Templates from their sites.

I'm surprised that Microsoft didn't contact you. One reason they got in touch with me is because I publish my telephone number and address on the web site so I'm easy to find.

ctabuk

10-12-2005, 03:25 AM

I dare not tell you a URL that I own! I'm hoping when Bill Gates finds out he will ask me politely to sell it to him!

What if you don't sell it to them?

Well, Microsoft will send an army of lawyers to force you to give the domain name to them.

They will find a reason. Just like Google brought a law suit against booble. Need i say more.

Hmmm, well I would sell it. I was amazed that his guys had not already done it. There has been so much on the xbox360 system being used to show films at a later date, so I logged this www.xbox360movies.com Now I know that is infrigement, so I have written to them & that was ages ago, I have heard nothing back. Why did I risk it? I did loads of them in all about 100, some are very good, my favourite is www.boxofficeathome.com - That is ready for when films will be transmitted digitally from Cinema Stations the day after Box Office release. I have even invested into a small Cinema chain. I firmly believe that speculation can pay. But I will give up the xbox thing without a struggle. Lives too hard!

khurramali

10-12-2005, 08:21 AM

For the record and information of newbie on the forum.

Domain names are like properties, there are people who buy and sell them. There are even appraisal services that evaluate and put a fair value on your domain name.

Investing in Domains is the same as investing in stocks.

maniactive

10-12-2005, 10:06 AM

Judy:

I wonder if it's because you are selling a product that has a trademarked name within it....that must be the difference. (If a lawyer wants to contact me, I'm easy to find. The "Contact" button is fairly straightforward.)

In the past few years, I have received letters from 2 different corporate attorneys requesting that I honor their trademark in very specific, wordsmithy, nit-picky ways...that's a lawyer's job, I suppose. Sound familiar?

One other thought: are you a Microsoft Partner? MS has specific guidelines for marketing products using their trade names....that may have triggered the letter, as well.

greeneagle

10-12-2005, 10:30 AM

Why would anyone be so brazen to use another company's registered trademarked name in an URI without first gaining permission from that company?

That's Just Law101 there guys!

Ken

maniactive

10-12-2005, 01:40 PM

Green Eagle:

I agree. And that would certainly apply for Judy's alias URL.

onlinetv

10-12-2005, 07:25 PM

Why would anyone be so brazen to use another company's registered trademarked name in an URI without first gaining permission from that company?

That's Just Law101 there guys!

Ken

And this might be why you do not get that call ctabuck. You really cant use it, unless you get close to them, and then they dont need to buy it.

You find yourself a phone in the software area you need, you become a MS "partner" trader, whatever. They do not charge until you are a massive developer. You get the logos and they tell you how they like to be seen. Then you get to use it.

Now if you put up the xbox thing before xmas you could see some activity. I might work a deal with you to supply rights to some original concerts or movies. But get on their side before you put it up. If you develop it, they may just want it. When they want it they will give you a price you cannot refuse.

ctabuk

10-14-2005, 05:07 AM

Hi, Onlinetv, we can talk about that!
I was (showing my murky past) involved in a Company that bought a 'Blockbuster'LOL - Well the stars were there, Richard Dreyfuss, Sondra Locke and Gene Barry the film was 'The Second Coming of Suzanne' and if you've seen it, you will know why they sold it!

khurramali

10-14-2005, 03:14 PM

There are always 2 ways of doing anything.

1. Doing it the right way
2. Doing it my way / your way.

Why do people always take the short cut.