What about Time?

[Czar]

Since we are comming up quick on the new year the hampster in my head has been getting a lot of exsercize wondering about a few things...

Some people say time passes and is linear... some say time is a spiral while others say time is a numerical progression.

I Happen to like the time is a spiral theory the best.... Ok so if time is a spiral wouldn't it make sence that everything entertwines?

For those who believe in reincarnations wouldn't it be fair to say that even though this life time your living in the 2000's that perhaps next lifetime you will be living in the 1000's?

I'm wondering what you all have to say about this in its many forms...

Czar

[matauri]

...the hampster in my head has been getting a lot of exsercize wondering about a few things...

Its not a male hampster is it?? ;-)


For those who believe in reincarnations wouldn't it be fair to say that even though this life time your living in the 2000's that perhaps next lifetime you will be living in the 1000's?

While time is a continuum of experience in which events pass from the future through the present into the past, in the Spirit World it can originate at near zero if there is no unfinished business for thousands of years. Even though someone can choose bodies and identities when they reincarnate, there would be no need to, except by choice, if one can take responsibility for all actions in the current life and inherent concepts from past lives. The greater your responsibility, the more choice you have over the future.

:-)


Cindy

[minstrel]

Sorry to tell you this because I know it's one of those things every young person hates to hear but the truth is, after you've lived a few more years, it will begin to be more and more apparent that time is exponential...

...the farther you go, the faster it goes. This year only lasted a little over a month for me...

[Leisa]

...the farther you go, the faster it goes. This year only lasted a little over a month for me...

Do you have any advice for making it go any slower? One of my biggest fears is that my life will be finished and I won't have known where it went or how I got to the end so quickly. This thought used to keep me awake at night as a youngster and I still can't shake it. If you have any wisdom to share on this I'd sure like to hear it.

[mikmik]

Leisa wrote :
Do you have any advice for making it go any slower? One of my biggest fears is that my life will be finished and I won't have known where it went or how I got to the end so quickly. This thought used to keep me awake at night as a youngster and I still can't shake it. If you have any wisdom to share on this I'd sure like to hear it.
When I was a youngster, she says. lol You look like about 45 at most ahahahaha! Just pullin yer leg.
To me you are young even in 30 range but I know that no matter what age you is, it's the oldest you've ever been! Caspice?
Read The Stranger by Albert Camus, I think, I'm pretty sure in fact. In it, a guy faces a death sentence while he is still fairly young, I'd guess 35-ish, for a lapse in judgement and wierd situation leading to him kill a man.
Every one seems to pity this man, and tries to change him, but the point is that they didn't care about him before his crime, and now all their bother is really about appeasing their own guilts. But in the end he decides something about his life, and it addresses your worries exactly, and to a T.
Another good one is "A day in the Life of Ivan Ivanesovic" by Andrew Solzyenitin. (help) (again correct me if I'm a little off)
Both easy reads, both very deep, The latter is a classic of literature.


I've heard it this way before: when you are little, say 4 yr. old, one year represents 25% of your entire lifespan so it seems big.
When you are minstrels and ronniethedodgers age, 1 year is about .5% of your entire lifespan. sorry, no lol on that one boys.

I am not likee matauri and Czar, I don't even want to think that there is reincarnation, because it would make this time alive now not as valuable because it would mean that it isn't final.

It is of no consequence anyways, because if there is life after death, I am unaware of it anyways and so it has no bearing on the present. I may or may not have been 'good' last time around, I don't know, and as for my next appearance, I don't care because it is not me unless we are concious of the connection through common memories. And that ain't so.

That means wether I was to come back as a snail, or a god, it is another person for all intents and purposes.

I strongly believe to the depth's of my being, that expecting more time than what we have beyond this lifetime can only cause us to value this time less. Nothing can give our life more value and urgency than knowing it is finite - and very short at that.

I already have about four lifetimes worth of stuff that I want to do and won't be able to.

So, how do find peace with this seemingly tragic injustice? The apparent teasing us with all that there is to learn and experience, only to taunt us with the surity of death prematurely ending our aspirations?

For me, the answer is by letting go. Don't encumber my time with worry and regret. The past is unchangeable, and the future is uncontrollable, we only make adjustments to our reality in the present moment. That is our existense, our window of power, of influens. Right exactly now.


When I have totally learned to accept that fact, then I can move on to deeper levels of understanding about what is important to me. The real goods.
Then I am able to not only accept my situation, and reality, for what it is, but I begin to see the necessity of it being this way, and I begin to appreciate it as beautiful, beyond comprehension even. I actually love the way nature works, or more precisely, my perception of how it is.


Because I am not permanent, I now value what are called spiritual concepts, abstract idea's that are created out of our relationships with each other and with reality. Honesty and truth become they only standard with which to measure worth. Creating, not destroying become my goals. Building the deepest bonds possible with people, all life, and all that is, becomes my purpose. I seek to understand what is, and revel in the naked beauty of being.

I have very strong feelings about certain ways of seeing things, and much as I am sure that I see, not pretend, but see, total truth, honesty dictates that I acknowledge that I am the sum of my experiences, wishes, judgements, values etc, and I do not ultimately know if I am right or deluded.


I only know that I seek to be sure of why I think what I think, why I know what I know, and why I do what I do. Do my reasons make sense, do my actions support my beliefs. If there is deception and ulterior motive in my vision and actions, I am ripping myself off from experiencing what is real.

So I find peace when I am doing that. That is why I value telling people when I think highly of them, of complimenting people at every opportunity, of helping when it benifits both of us. I want to feel as much as possible. I only have so much time.

I am not likee matauri and Czar, I don't even want to think that there is reincarnation, because it would make this time alive now not as valuable because it would mean that it isn't final....

Nothing can give our life more value and urgency than knowing it is finite - and very short at that.


mikmik i concur 100%>>> this was a truly moving & heartfelt post.

rather than jumping in intellectually, quoting Neitche, Kant, Sarte, and all the other existentialists, and then pitting them agaist the spiritual titans like Krishnamurti or even the theory of relativity.......

http://webpageturner.com/clock.jpg
we shall listen to Pink Floyd instead>>"TIME" from TheDarkSideOfTheMoon

Ticking away the moments that make up the dull day

You fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way

Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town

Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain

You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today

And then one day you find that ten years have got behind you

No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you run and run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking

And racing around to come up behind you again

The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older

Shorter of breath and one day closer to death
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time

Plans that either come to naught or a half page of scribbled lines

Hanging on in a quiet desperation is the English way

The time is gone the song is over, thought I'd something more to say

DAREN

[matauri]

Mik..you must have missed a part.........

There is no need to reincarnate if one can take responsibility for all actions in the current life and inherent concepts from past lives.

It is only the unfinished that haunts us.

:-)

Cindy

[Narasinha]

Sorry to tell you this because I know it's one of those things every young person hates to hear but the truth is, after you've lived a few more years, it will begin to be more and more apparent that time is exponential...

...the farther you go, the faster it goes. This year only lasted a little over a month for me...

How very true! Remember when you were eight years old and summer vacation seemed to last forever? Having noticed this effect years ago, I gave it some thought. My theory to explain this accelleration as we progress through life goes something like this:

When you were eight years old, a summer vacation of three months lasted so long. Of course it did, as it was about three percent of your entire life! I thought that perhaps a person judged the passage of time only in relation to the time they've already experienced in their life. At my current age (two months short of 39 years) that three percent is now about fourteen months. So, it makes sense that three months to an eight-year-old seems about the same as fourteen months does to a 38-year-old. Let's see what one percent of your life is at different ages:

Age 5 years - 0.6 months
Age 10 years - 1.2 months
Age 16 years - 1.92 months
Age 21 years - 2.52 months
Age 30 years - 3.6 months
Age 40 years - 4.8 months
Age 50 years - 6 months
Age 65 years - 7.8 months
Age 80 years - 9.6 months

As time and space are relative, so is our perception of these things. One more thing that we really can't be objective about.

[mikmik]

Matahatma manTauri wrote :

Mik..you must have missed a part.........

There is no need to reincarnate if one can take responsibility for all actions in the current life and inherent concepts from past lives.

It is only the unfinished that haunts us.

Mat..you must have missed a part.........

I do not ultimately know if I am right or deluded.

No matter how sure I think I am about things, ... well, the second part there, I guess it could happen lol(You guys are gettin harder and harder to start an argument with all the time!)

And yes, I do remember something now, seems I had a choice between being a hamster in some tall smart guys head, or mikmik. And seeing that I smoke, I took the life with the least exercise. Seems I had a choice of gender too, so I would assume that Czar's hamster is male, but only his hairdresser knows for sure. But I don't like messin' with people named Czar, They might be a leader or something.

I remember this joke: I was backstage at the recent Miss America Pageant and I saw a guy taking all the womens measurements.
Now I know what I want to come back as - that measuring tape!

(I might have to be extra good this life so I can beat narasihna to it :o)

[janeth]

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

[bubbasmurf]

Reminds me of what someone once said
"Change has a considerable psychological impact on the human mind. To the fearful it is threatening because it means that things may get worse. To the hopeful it is encouraging because things may get better. To the confident it is inspiring because the challenge exists to make things better."
King Whitney Jr.

[matauri]

I remember this joke: I was backstage at the recent Miss America Pageant and I saw a guy taking all the womens measurements.
Now I know what I want to come back as - that measuring tape!

LOL....You probably will come back as the tape Mik, because you couldnt be the guy taking the measurements!

Unfinished business ! ;-)


Cindy

[Czar]

Matauri I'm afraid to find out what my unfinished buisness is... chances are I will come back as a 16th century whipping boy lol.

[vfaulkner]

Sort of off, but as I was reading above, this kept goes through my memory...
"
To be early is to be on time.
To be on time is to be late.
To be late is to be forgotten.
"
-Highschool Bandroom door 1994-95



Also, go away for a few days holiday and everything's different.... :-)

[JayDrake]

time is exponential...

...the farther you go, the faster it goes. This year only lasted a little over a month for me...

You're certainly right about that. It supports the spiral theory, actually. (Inward spiral, specifically.) As you move through the coils of time, each successive 'round' is shorter. As all things are bound within the time, this change cannot be measured but can be felt.

As for intertwining, a true spiral doesn't intertwine. It simply creates shorter and shorter (or longer and longer, depending which direction you travel along it) 'loops'.

I could probably go on, but... Why? I'm running out of time!

[mikmik]

minstrel wrote:
time is exponential...

...the farther you go, the faster it goes. This year only lasted a little over a month for me...

If the older you are, the faster you go....
And the faster you go, the more mass you gain..
Then the older you are, the more you weigh!

It's not the beer!!

Damn you Einstein.... :o)
( so that makes me about 175 pounds old...I must be getting dizzy, everything is spinning..

It's not the beer!!

JayDrake closed with
I could probably go on, but... Why? I'm running out of time!

I concur. I could also go on and on...but I'm running out of pretzels lol

[sonnie]

I'm so depressed.



Sorry to tell you this because I know it's one of those things every young person hates to hear but the truth is, after you've lived a few more years, it will begin to be more and more apparent that time is exponential...




Let's see what one percent of your life is at different ages:

Age 50 years - 6 months




-Highschool Bandroom door 1994-95


Where's my cane. I'm gonna break that clock.

[minstrel]

Here... let me help you do that, Sonnie - I kinda hate the damn thing too. Besides, at your age, you might hurt yourself and I'd feel bad about that if it happened while I stood idly by watching... ;o)

[mikmik]

JayDrake =
As for intertwining, a true spiral doesn't intertwine. It simply creates shorter and shorter (or longer and longer, depending which direction you travel along it) 'loops'.
Sheesh, that's not bad enough getting older faster, everything literally goes swirling down the drain.
Speaking of which, ...just a sec, YOU. Yes You there, sonnie, I don't care about 'not much time', you look pretty full of 'pressed' vinegar (it kinda rhymes?), you young fellers,, I"LL tell you about not much time! Now listen up.


I got a frantic call to get right into the Dr.s office this mornin. Ya, somethin dreadful sounding, so I rushed right in.
I said "Where's the doctor gotta see me so bad?"
Well, the nurse she says "He's not here but he wanted me to give you a message. It's not very pleasant I'm afraid. It's in two parts, one very bad news, and one even worse! What do you want to hear first?"
I said " Might as well ease me in with the very bad news so I can 'spread the shock'".
"well" she says, "I'm to tell you that you only got twenty- four hours left to live!"
"Aagghh!! Good God, woman, what could possibly be worse than that???!!"
"Well", all panicky like, "I was supposed to tell you yesterday!"

[ronniethedodger]

Where's my cane. I'm gonna break that clock.

What good would that do? You couldn't see that far anyway man! ;0)

[mikmik]

minstrel bows out gracefully:
Here... let me help you do that, Sonnie - I kinda hate the damn thing too. Besides, at your age, you might hurt yourself and I'd feel bad about that if it happened while I stood idly by watching... ;o)

Do what I do , man. Close your eyes lol

[minstrel]

Do what I do , man. Close your eyes lol
I've tried that... but then the moaning and grumbling gets to me... ;o)

[mikmik]

minstrel wrote
I've tried that... but then the moaning and grumbling gets to me... ;o)
Ooohh... That really is hitting below the belt when they get into that kind of self pitying grovelling, some people will do anything to get a little sympathy. And then some we end up looking like the bad guys - hey, I'm just standing here! Sheeesh :o)

[minstrel]

hey, I'm just standing here!
:-) maybe I'll try that next time...

[Czar]

Getting older never bothered me... I know its gonna happen and i hope that i can just somehow manage to live to be 100 or more lol

but i don't see that happening.... medical science is to cruel for that lol.

Did you know they found the fountain of youth but the govronment won't let us have it? lol

I wish it was just that simple

Czar

[wenwilder]

My two cents:

As long as no one asks me [what time is]. then I know it, but f someonae asks me to explain it, I don't know it.

But remember, "I'm just standing here!" ;)

[pete61uk]

If you believe in ghosts/spirits etc., it would be illogical not to believe in reincarnation.

As it is widely believed that ghosts/spirits are persons who, having left their last life with things left unresolved, have been unable to progress/move-on this strongly suggests that reincarnation is progressive only rather than retrograde also. In addition, as with ‘guardian angels’, unless these are other-worldly beings, this implies a capacity for self-determination of the spirit in death, that it can choose to remain in this plane of existence in order to perform some needed task.

Another theory is that ghosts/spirits are merely imprints of past events, that certain locations are so bombarded with strong emotions or traumatic events etc., that they become capable of recording the event only to be repeatedly played back as a recording to those receptive enough to see or feel them. Could this be an example of our spiritual connection to the earth?

If you’ve ever experienced the feeling of familiarity with a place or person, and can prove beyond doubt that you have never been there before, or met the person, this could imply a “past-life” connection?

Buddhists’, and other similar belief systems practice that life is a struggle for the advancement of the spirit to a higher level of consciousness. During each incarnation either the spirit succeeds in this life and progresses in the next or, through failure, stays at either the same level or (the only exception to the retrograde incarnation rule) is severely backtracked until some “key” lesson has been learned. This implies an implicit responsibility for individual acts that, if reprehensible, cannot be absolved by an outside force. In other words, “you reap what you sow!”

mikmik wrote:

"I am not like matauri and Czar, I don't even want to think that there is reincarnation, because it would make this time alive now not as valuable because it would mean that it isn't final."

If the purpose of life is to promote the progression of the spirit, soul - whatever you choose to call it - then I’d suggest that (as with the implication of past-life connections) the same spirits/souls come into contact and, if progressing at the same rate, repeatedly so in subsequent lives until they each reach a state of (for want of a better description) “perfection”.

Even if the premise were false, on the off chance that it isn’t, I’d say that’s a pretty good motivation for believing that every second, every act, is valuable in the extreme precisely because its repercussions are not final!

As to time, that’s another subject! I’m ready for my anti-digression Decaff now ;-)

[spiderbait]

Now I know that it's not at all like me to get all preachy about anything <smile>, but I just can't stay out of this. Particularly when one of my favourite people here has expressed a wish to hear some wisdom on the topic. In other words, Leisa, this is for you.

I am much older than I appear. I also feel much younger than I appear. I enjoy my life as fully as possible and try not to let anything interfere with that.

On top of this, I don't feel that time is moving any more quickly for me today than it did when I was a child.

So, in contrast to the "time is speeding up" bandwagon, I submit that everyone's individual concept of time is uniquely subjective - and it's up to you if you want it to speed up or remain relatively constant.

We each have our own way of looking at time, based upon as mikmik eloquently said the sum of "experiences, wishes, judgments, values, etc" and for some of us that means adopting someone else's idea or accepted wisdom of how time passes and sticking with that perception without ever questioning it.

However, I believe it is equally possible to create and sustain your own personal perception of time and its passage. You can choose to dwell in the present much longer than is common and you can choose to make each passing moment exist brightly and clearly in your consciousness with its own unique experience and memory.

The process is not as difficult as you might think.

Live in the moment. Seek joy in each moment. Look for the beauty of life in each grain of sand. Live with a sense of wonder at the world around you.

It works - and cynical rebuttals will likely only help to prove my point.

The surest way to stop the accelerating sense of time's passing is to squeeze every bit of meaning out of every second - by taking the time to appreciate the wonder of the world you will actually give yourself more time in which to appreciate it - sort of the ultimate use-it-or-lose-it.
or

Conversely, the surest way to give-in to the accelerating sense of time's passing is to take life for granted. Start overlooking life's treasures and telling yourself "been there, done that" and sure enough, your perception of time will speed right up to skip you over all the stuff that you told yourself was old hat.

I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point. Essentially, the choice is yours.

Don't despair - that way lies madness. Rejoice and live and life's treasures will be your reward.

[mikmik]

Spiderbait puts it:
Essentially, the choice is yours.

Don't despair - that way lies madness. Rejoice and live and life's treasures will be your reward.

Exactly!

I like this guy :O)

[Czar]

For the longest time while I was online I would lie about my age. I didn't do it to be mean or anything of the like I did it because at the time I was 15 or 16 and no one would take me seriously.

I openly admit that it was a stupid idea that probably did more harm then good... but for some reason when I confessed to my closets friends they laughted it off and still liked me anyway.

I'm wondering of leaving my pasts now 30 self has had an impact on my currant mental age. I get lost in the confusion wondering if had I stayed in the upper level of my maturity if I would have hit 40 by now.

Many say that age doesn't matter and that its only a number but I wonder if that is really true.

I'm 21 and probably at times act like I'm 12, But if people thought I was 30 and started to act like I was 21 would they call it a near midlife crisis instead of imaturity.

TIME TIME TIME WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME lol

Czar

[wenwilder]

Time can only pass, the rest is up to you.

[mikmik]

Czar says
Many say that age doesn't matter and that its only a number but I wonder if that is really true.

I'm 21 and probably at times act like I'm 12, But if people thought I was 30 and started to act like I was 21 would they call it a near midlife crisis instead of imaturity.

TIME TIME TIME WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME lol
Czar, you are my friend and I can see that you are going through something right now, questioning and doubting your condition.
I have been through this many times, screwed up over women, jobs, my failed friendship and business plans with my best friend in Dec. just passed.

But that was only a month ago and I realized then that it IS my attitude that dictates my happiness, not the views of others.
I also have learned to give myself a break for making mistakes, because I am human, and again I want to remind you that it takes courage to taks risk and make mistakes.
But it takes the power of responsibility for our own feelings, what we decide to blame our self esteem on, and the ability to grow that shows maturity, not 'appearing' as a victim of circumstances.

I have been so ashamed of myself because of how I thought that other people saw me, and gave that all the importance, that 14 years ago I tried verydeliberately to kill myself, and I was found by a concerned friend checking up on me. I don't remember phoning them - I was far to gone by then - but They were just on their front doorstep leaving when I called and I would've not been here anymore if I had called a few seconds later.
I ended up in ICU for 3 days and in a wheelchair for another 4 because I hurt myself so bad. That was the turning point in my life, when I began to grow up. I was 30 years old.
I wouldn't be here now to finally rejoice in how beautiful this free, and one time only, gift of life is, and how important it is to be responsible for my own feelings so I can move on.
I tried laying guilt trips, being victim, blaming parents etc., etc., but it is up to me to deal with stuff, no one else can fix me.

I realize that life is far, far to short to cry over spilled milk, and now I have the FREEDOM to act as silly or stupid or mature as I want, and it doesn't matter. I can handle it, and that is the most important thing I ever learned.