Are You A Google Dropping? Ten Ways To Get Back To #1

[jmiller]

The e-commerce world is a tricky one. If you have an online business, then there's no doubt as to the importance of obtaining a high ranking on search engine results pages-especially on search master Google, whose popularity has led to a command of 85% of the search world.

A high ranking, especially a first or second spot, is the key to a successful online marking campaign. A drop in rank, or worse, disappearing altogether, can threaten the very life of your business-especially if your webpage is the sole face of your organization, your building, and your salesperson.

Search engine optimization is so competitive that some resort to "black hat" techniques to increase their ranking, a desperate, some say smart, but foolhardily risky practice that can get you banned from Google outright. But there are still instances, usually due to a change in algorithms, where a site completely drops off even though they're marketing techniques are innocently on the "white hat" side of the spectrum.

So what do you do if you become a Google dropping? There are a number of suggestions about how to handle this situation--the first of which is, "chill out." Chances are that Google doesn't have a vendetta against your organization. It is most likely the result of algorithm changes that are necessary to prevent people from manipulating the system through "black hat" techniques like link spamming, hidden links, and such.

As a general rule, you shouldn't rely on Google and organic listings as your bread and butter. As you don't have control of how sites are picked up, then you also have no control of how much traffic is generated. If your site has been a top keyword listing for a significant amount of time, that's great, but it can change in a heart beat. Too many variables equals dangerous ground, and if Google is the only source of traffic, then all can be lost.

So, take the gun away from your head, as one blogger (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=5800) mentioned after his site was dropped, and follow a few suggestions to get your site back on track.

1. Wait a few days. During an update, it is common that ranking drops, but in a matter of days, the site often crawls its way back to the top.

2. Diversify. Instead of making Google your principle traffic supplier, arrange it so that you expect 10-20% of hits will come from there. There are lots of other search engines that accept paid inclusion and paid placement. In addition, good old-fashioned marketing techniques in the real world can make a big difference.

3. Content continues to reign supreme. Most Googlites (Google users) view the web as a library rather than a shopping mall. Update your webpage content every day, at least 200-300 words worth, making sure it is relevant and compelling. Remember that people aren't searching for your content, they are searching for their own-a concept that changes with each user depending on their personal paradigms. So varied, updated content can help match up with some unpredictable keyword choices.

4. Avoid duplicate content. This is incredibly important if you're running several websites at a time, or using "doorway" pages to your main site. Having pages with identical content is a surefire way for Google to drop your listing.

5. Site design is the stepchild of good online marketing. Though an algorithm is clueless about how nice your site looks, people viewing it do notice and this will increase your click-throughs. Sites heavy on HTML and light on text, however, are a bad idea, as search engine spiders pick up text mostly. A good balance of design and simplicity coupled with easily read content is probably the best bet. Even better, have lots of breaks in text to accommodate the majority of net readers that scan pages, rather than read them in their entirety. It takes 25% longer to read from a computer screen than from paper.

6. Remember that there is a balance of keywords required. If your pages use the keywords excessively, red flags pop up all over the Google world and they might tag you for spamming. A good rule of thumb is to keep keyword density below 20% of content.

7. Linking in the Internet world is what networking is to the outside world. Always include links to other sites that relate to your subject matter and try to utilize link swapping as much as possible. Other people want their site recognized too, so most are more than happy to trade links with you. The more your site is referenced on other sites, the more it affects your page ranking.

8. Try to keep the gloves up. Don't try to trick the algorithms with "black hat" techniques like hidden image links and burying the link inside the background. This will get you banned for sure. Avoid Java script redirection and IP cloaking.

9. It is impossible to create a page that pleases everybody. Try to think in terms of target users, who the typical viewer of your site is going to be. If you sell baby car seats, don't have content about the Chinese socio-economic politics.

10. It's so important I have to say it again. CONTENT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF YOUR WEBSITE. Content content content content.

And I'm spent.

[wrmineo]

Loved your post, comments and insight - hope millions will read, and more importantly, take heed!

I'm no seasoned professional, but when someone is niave enough to ask my opinion, or tolerant enough to listen, I usually some up what you've said with my 3P's: Professionalism, Persistence and Patience - everything you said could be categorized into these, I think.

Also, I wholeheartedly concur with your diversity points of view. Although Google is the premiere of the Big 3 today, that doesn't mean they always will be (though very likely!). Two additional points on this matter though:

1. Google ranks #1, but the next two combined blow them out of the water in market share. G is tough to get ranked with, it takes the 3P's for sure, but more so the patient factor, IMO. Hence, if you can rank well with the others in the interim, you're still in business now and not later.

2. Your market demographics should determine where you want a heavy presence, not just with the big kid on the block. If I am wanting to launch a resource or reference site, Google's the way to go - everyone researches on Google. But if I'm wanting get hits for a female celebrity picture site, Yahoo and MSN have a solid foothold in the younger crowd.

Anyway ... loved your article - you hit the proverbial nail on its head. Well done!

w®m

[xmx]

Hi jmiller,

thanks for this contribution with useful suggestions.

Search engines are never a sure thing as they continually change the way they index websites for their own nature.

Your suggestions are anyway good bases to consider.

Gian L.

[neutral]

Maybe someone can help me on this:

All my sites are doing well on the web but one.

I bought this domain second hand, and google has not updated its cache for it for more than a year now!

Interestingly enough, google lists many pages of this site in its index, but not the index page - whose cache is not being updated, and whose PR shows grey.

- I wonder if just the main page is banned.

- I wonder what the maximum period of time google bans a page is.

- I contacted google, and did not get an asnwer, so I also wonder what else I can do about it. (The page has decent incoming links.)

[brian.mark]

Maybe someone can help me on this:

All my sites are doing well on the web but one.

I bought this domain second hand, and google has not updated its cache for it for more than a year now!

Interestingly enough, google lists many pages of this site in its index, but not the index page - whose cache is not being updated, and whose PR shows grey.

- I wonder if just the main page is banned.

- I wonder what the maximum period of time google bans a page is.

- I contacted google, and did not get an asnwer, so I also wonder what else I can do about it. (The page has decent incoming links.)

Letting us know the URL here would be a good start. We can look and help, but only if we know what we're dealing with.

Brian.

[neutral]

Thanks.

here is the URL: http://socioeconomics.com

[TrafficProducer]

domain second hand

Do you know why the site URL was sold? What was the site used for?

second hand domains can cause problems because:-

second hand domains bloked.

could have been because the URL is banded.

could have been used for illegal stuff.

URL spammed.

Other problems.

[geoffreygag]

Hello J,

nice rollout of the key points relevant to search engine life. The truth is that it really takes over six months before your site can have fair representations across all keywords.

Stay clean, Stay clear, Stay fresh and be patient is correct. Geoffrey

[wrmineo]

Thanks.

here is the URL: http://socioeconomics.com

A few thoughts, guesses and points:

1. Loose the all caps in your title; maybe even be a bit more descriptive like "Socioeconomics: Social Issues & Political Economics Blog" (just try to make it sensible and keep to 60 characters or less, but at least 13)

2. You have a good outline, per se, but your heavy emphasis with <h> uses may be a bit much if not too much for Google. Using the W3C validator detailed report and clicking "show outline" will better explain.

3. Speaking of W3C, you code has lots of errors, most of which will be corrected by replacing "&" with "&amp;".

4. Your main page is HUGE, 75K. Remember that bots crawl and rank your site as if they're a 56K modem; slower load is lower ranking.

5. You seemed to have a mixture of HTML and XHTML code; easy fix and it'll help lots, I think.

6. It seems the only index page Google has indexed is an RDF file which they do not recognize.

7. I didn't see an ENCODING declaration ... UTF-8?

[brian.mark]

(The page has decent incoming links.)

It appears most of your IBL's are from Blogs, which Google knows is a source of SPAM. Most of your site appears fine (crawlable, robots.txt is ok, no robots meta tags, etc.), so I'm wondering if you just need some decent linkbuilding to get off the ground floor and start climbing.

Brian.

[neutral]

Some answers:

- The domain was sold because I made an offer to buy it.

- There was nothing that could cause a ban on it. It was a very basic small page.

- The only problem that I can think of is that nobody made any changes to it for a long period of time and that caused the spiders to visit the site les and less frequently. (Still 14 months look like a long time)

- & and &amp; error is due to links to outgoing links to dynamic pages.

- Many blogs rank really well, as well as other pages of my blog on google. The problem here is just to get the sites index page cached again, and that's about it.

How long is the longest ban you have heard of?

And how long can it last for google not to renew its cache for a page?

[TrafficProducer]

Google sandbox.

I've heard, new sites, (maybe also sites not changed in a while) get placed here for upto a number of months.

Google appear a bit confused at this time..

Try asking Google, very nicely, to relist you and explain the situation use the link below:-

I'm a webmaster inquiring about my website
http://www.google.co.uk/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=webmaster&hl=en_GB

[johnspayne]

Any advice would be welcomed...

I've had a Web Marketing website for 5 years- http://www.WebMarketingEzine.com I have built it up to approximately 200 pages of good content over that time.

I have always taken an interest in SEO matters, but have never resorted to "black hat" methods. I have always agreed with the proposition that the aim of a search engine was to produce relevant results for the searcher, and my job was to make it easy for the search engine to recognize that my pages were relevant.

For the last couple of years, I have enjoyed high Google rankings. On a couple of occasions, my ranking has dropped (once below 100) for a short time, but always come back up. For most of the last two years, I have enjoyed a Google ranking around #3 for 'web marketing", #1-#3 for "web marketing resources" and #1 for my domain name 'web marketing ezine'.

Midway through last month, my AdWords income nosedived. A look to the "page impressions' column showed a huges drop. I checked that my site was still up, and heard no news of huge interruptions to Internet traffic. That suggested that a large drop in traffic meant problems with my Google rankings. A quick check didn't find reasonably high rankings for pages I knew were near the top. Then the horrible thought hit me. I checked, and found that the home page had dropped from the Google index. So had a dozen other pages I knew ranked well. As I can't find a single page listed, I have to presume that the whole site has been dropped. And I haven't a clue why!

I can understand a change in algorithms can change rankings. I understand that improper practices meant to trick serach engines deserve pumishment. I simply don't understand what there is about my site which would lead it to be completely dropped from the index.

I'd appreciate any forum members having a look at the site at
http://www.WebMarketingEzine.com
and giving me the benefit of their wisdom, as to why it would be dropped.

Many thanks.

[kingman]

Excellent post! Extremely insightful and useful. One worthy to print and save in a file.

Well done!

[neutral]

johnspayne:

I can't of course say that it is due to that but:

It seems kind of weird to me that your h1 tag is at the bottom of the page.

[Christof]

I agree on nearly all points, I've found however that when I change the content of my home page regularly, Google drops my ranking for my targeted key words. It seems as though it's thinking, "if the page keeps changing, I can't trust it to be relevent between ranking updates".

When I leave the home page alone, it invariably climbs back up to the top again.

Odd.

CT

[neutral]

johnspayne:

Why is your h1 tag at the bottom of the page?

[eweber]

Guys, I'm in the same boat here.

Our site is about a year old. I spend about $4,000 per month with Google Adwords. About 2 months ago, our page made it up to about position 35 using the main keyword "live chat" (our product is for website chat and monitoring for sales/customer service). As of now, the site has disappeared, I've search down through about 120 pages and it doesn't come up. I don't "spam" the engine or use any other underhanded tactics. At this point, we just want to show up in a "reasonable" fashion. The site is www.sightmax.com, I'd love to get some feedback as to what you guys think could be going on. My email is eweber@sightmax.com.

Thanks in advance.

Eric Weber

[cspelts]

johnspayne, I have no idea if this tool is accurate or not, but your may want to check it out:
Google Banned Tool (http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php)

[Gary Golden]

Google has never been a problem for me, Yahoo has lost me on some of my important keywords.

Though Google has always sent me 4 to 1 on business prior to my loss of some Yahoo referals.

We will see what happens since I adjusted some keywords with Yahoo over the next month.

Good Luck to all!

[iwstats]

Looking at http://socioeconomics.com/ and without going into too much details, I find that the HTML code has errors. Search Engines penalize bad code. Get a good code checker, there are several free ones, see for example, http://www.htmlhelp.com/links/validators.htm, and validate your web pages. After doing this, you should place some links in your links page which is empty. I would also recommend you change the page titles to keyword rich titles.

[nipplecharms1]

Great article.

I was starting to panic too. We went from 1 to 6. Still dont know why. But I will look at your 10 points and see what I am doing wrong.

Thanks

Michael

[Clint1]

Hello all. It's easy for the author and others not affected to say things such as "chill out", "relax", wait a couple of days", etc. It has now been almost two weeks since this started, and not only have things not gotten back to what they were, they have become worse. So much for the "give a couple of days" theory.

The general consensus is that (and I quote from many sources) "Google is broken".

Contrary to what the respected author has stated, I have numerous examples of proof that content, links, SEO, etc., has nothing do with G SERP's...at least not good relevant content, sensible links nor "optimized pages". Not only that, the fact of the matter is, those that did have top SERP's at G for hundreds of search phrases for years, have indeed as of Saturday May 21st, been replaced by: link farms, links pages, "affiliate" type pages, shopping directories, etc.; sites with hidden text & other spammy sites; loads of non-relevant sites in India & China (when searching for ENGLISH ONLY sites) ; sites that have little if anything to do with the searched-for phrases; just poor non-relevant content in general.

The fact that G has such a massive user base, makes other SE's and traffic areas/methods almost irrelevant. Whether or not G is 60%, 85%, whatever, is also irrelevant. The fact is, and remains, they are huge and at either 85%, 60%, 50%, etc.; huge enough that when one is deleted from G, spells doom for most of us. When a potential customer needs to purchase (the infamous) "blue widget", they are going to go online to a SE (search engine), and, ~60-85% of time will go to G to search for said "blue widget". There's no way around that.

If I may I would like to direct peoples' attention, especially the attention of those victimized by G, and even more-so media sources, to a thread at a forum with I would guess about 2000 posts and counting, on this Google "brain hemorrhage". It has been dubbed "Bourbon update". http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/ If that URL is not allowed in posts (sorry), the forum is WebmasterWorld.com and under "Google news" or "Bourbon Update". It is currently on the 3rd part since parts 1 & 2 got so long the thread had to be continued. Overnight there were 20 more pages of which I have not yet read.

Unfortunately, while definitely well-meaning, that thread has turned into basically a "support group for G victims" since we are all still grasping at the proverbial straws to try and comprehend the total lack of logic in this recent G update, nor can anyone find the answer as to what we can do about it. There so far appears to be no commonalties nor logic as to why some sites were targeted. As I indicated above, you will see in that thread that those with sites that have been trashed, have been replace by non-relevant content in most if not all cases. Word is getting out that G is "broken", and hopefully if they don't "get their heads out of their ***** soon", all victims can hope for is that G will lose its user-base to Yahoo, MSN, AOL, Alta-Vista, etc., (which I might add has not been affected and still are returning sensible relevant content). This is slowly happening because people are indeed realizing that results for searched-for phrases in G are becoming rather senseless in most cases. It's also worth pointing that those of use that had first-page-results for hundreds of search phrases at Yahoo, MSN, AOL, Alta-Vista, Lycos, etc., are still at the top in these SE's. Again, of little consolation when G has such a huge share.

To further exacerbate the problem, those hit are also not turning up in any searches for their own business names! Again, being replaced by "link exchange/link farm/directory" type sites & spammy sites that link to them! This also happened to myself.

There is also factual evidence that G has serious issues with "Redirects", in the form of either a 301 or 302 redirect (can't recall which is was now). Some have stated (and I quote) : "...we have been 'repeatedly beating Google over the head' with this redirect problem they have and they still deny it exists.....". (In a matter of speaking, as I understand it this "redirect" problem is when sites that link to you can somehow steal your good ranking, which could be partly to blame for this issue). There is also the issue of being possibly penalized for having a website that can be accessed with or without the www prefix, of which G is erroneously seeing as "duplicate content".

Some of those "higher up" in the community are considering going to the media with this. The problem is so widespread, that many are speculating that G was hit by either hackers, or a virus that corrupted their database. There is no evidence of this of course, it's only those trying to come up with a meaning as to the senseless search results.

All emails everyone has sent to all G email addresses go unanswered. I've even tried to call them to no avail-- (answering machine and they never return the calls).

As "luck" would have it, I was able to contact a G employee. Several months back on a totally unrelated issue (regarding an article on something), I emailed the person. He only replied a few days ago. I expressed to him that that issue (in the email) is now irrelevant and something very serious has taken place. I went on to explain to him what happened to myself and thousands, probably millions of others. I cited case-by-case examples and facts of what has and is transpiring. I also gave a typical example of a phrase where I was 1st on the 1st page for several years, which had been replaced by ridiculous results on the first several pages. (Not only the type of sites I mentioned above, but even replaced by "yellow pages" websites that are city-specific only, and some of these even in Africa!!!) He said he'll "ask someone to check it out". So, as of now, our lives as we know them are apparently in this one person's hands.

Whatever the reason for this may be, all those that are victimized want to know is why this happened, how it could have happened, what G is going to do about it, and, how those victimized can get our SERP's back and lives back.....and no, it has nothing to with "good content". That has been proven. Yes, this "issue" or whatever you want to call it may be still ongoing. However, from the SERP's trend that has taken place and is taking place now, it does NOT appear to be getting any better for those sites targeted. It only looks worse and worse for those sites targeted.

In closing, please, before anyone starts bashing me....AGAIN, just read some of the pages at the thread I mentioned and you'll see for yourselves.

[arpecop]

great article really ... this is good example of "content content content" theory :) I am trying to stay away from copy-paste tactics, but still wondering where the "unique content" lives ... cause there is alots of people like me that write "fun" things at english ... so I have to excuse myself everytime when I am trying to explain something in english. If somebody have a tip for me I will apriciate it ...

[Clint1]

Great article.

I was starting to panic too. We went from 1 to 6. Still dont know why. But I will look at your 10 points and see what I am doing wrong.

Thanks

Michael
---------------
Only from 1st to 6th and you're panicking?? Try going from 1st to GONE for hundreds of search phrases!

[Clint1]

Looking at http://socioeconomics.com/ and without going into too much details, I find that the HTML code has errors. Search Engines penalize bad code. Get a good code checker, there are several free ones, see for example, http://www.htmlhelp.com/links/validators.htm, and validate your web pages. After doing this, you should place some links in your links page which is empty. I would also recommend you change the page titles to keyword rich titles.
--------------

Hello, removal from G also has nothing to do with HTML errors. I currently have 5 websites. 2 are for my business. 3 are just domain names for sale. They are all "coded" the exact same way, meaning; if certain HTML "errors" are on one, they are on all of them. My 2 biz sites were trashed, where as the 3 domain names for sale sites shot up to the 1st page, and one even in the 1st position. This is in a search for the fields they represent. One, (the one in 1st place), is so screwed up HTML wise (by some free hosts) that it is not even displayed properly in a browser! It's loaded with JS errors, script errors, HTML errors, etc., generated by their PopUp BS and ad banners--some static and some dynamically generated. You can also run any of the sites appearing on the first few pages for a G search through a validator and see tons of errors.

Is it good practice to avoid HTML errors? Of course it is, no one denies that. Can it affect SE rankings? No.

[Clint1]

johnspayne, I have no idea if this tool is accurate or not, but your may want to check it out:
Google Banned Tool (http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php)
-----------
Interesting:

1st Check.........

"This site is not banned from Google"

2nd Check (using a slightly different method).

"Google again cannot see this website. Its probably banned if not a fresh site."

That doesn't make sense because the site is not "banned", just trashed into oblivion. Does anyone have any input on that please? What does say for your sites that have been affected?
Thanks.

[iwstats]

I'd appreciate any forum members having a look at the site at
http://www.WebMarketingEzine.com
and giving me the benefit of their wisdom, as to why it would be dropped.

Johnspayne, I just checked your website and it, I am sorry to say, has coding problems. Get a good validator and fix your code, that's all it takes to get a good ranking in your case. See my previous message above. Good luck.

Ricky

[raustin06]

I have a meta search engine that was recently blacklisted: http://www.sodora.com

This most likely happened for one of 2 reasons:

1. The site lists recent search queries as links to search results for those terms: http://www.sodora.com/queries.html
This may appear to be keyword spamming?

2. The same query archive is manually edited for content, but often contains search terms related to s-e-x and child pornography. Would these terms be considered content?

I am trying to determine why we were blacklisted, and then how to return to good standing.

On a side note: I always knew the web was mainly used for porn, but I was suprised (and disgusted) at the number of child porn searches on our engine.

[Clint1]

I have a meta search engine that was recently blacklisted: http://www.sodora.com

This most likely happened for one of 2 reasons:

1. The site lists recent search queries as links to search results for those terms: http://www.sodora.com/queries.html
This may appear to be keyword spamming?

2. The same query archive is manually edited for content, but often contains search terms related to s-e-x and child pornography. Would these terms be considered content?

I am trying to determine why we were blacklisted, and then how to return to good standing.

On a side note: I always knew the web was mainly used for porn, but I was suprised (and disgusted) at the number of child porn searches on our engine.

Raustin, all I for one can suggest is to monitor that "Google Bourbon Update" thread that the URL I mentioned: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/ . Read it and maybe ask there. G has obviously never had any issues listing porn sites. They especially love these porn sites that always engage in domain cloaking, IP cloaking, cheating redirects, thousands of words in hidden text, you name it, every possible black-hat trick. These so called things that G is allegedly supposed to be against, are obviously only HELPING these type sites.

As I stated in my long post, there are no commonalties in the sites that were trashed. For over two weeks now, everyone is STILL asking "why was I banned/blacklisted/removed" etc.

[Jossy]

Hiya

I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to assist? I am not completely new to the IT world but new to HTML. My partner is heavily into wargaming and has decided to prmote in depth his custom painting etc. I have created a website with theassistance of some page kits and some basics of java etc from my work.

I have a google adwords campaign set up and it seems to be working ok. I am concerned as to whether the site will actually be read by spiders or whether the code is a total mess. It just has been running for a month or more and yet nothing is picked up by the search engines.

THe only thing I see is my partners responses to some of his standard forums that he visits to assist other painters and gamers.

Am I completely off track with this website?

Any help would be great!!

[nipplecharms1]

---------------
Only from 1st to 6th and you're panicking?? Try going from 1st to GONE for hundreds of search phrases!

yea but I am dropping in all my terms and my competition is moving back up.

Anyone have any suggestions. I think my code is ok but who knows. I dont have the where-with-all to validate even if I could! :(

Suggestions anyone? bueller, bueller? :)

Michael

[cspelts]

Google Banned Tool (http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php) "Google again cannot see this website. Its probably banned if not a fresh site."

That doesn't make sense because the site is not "banned", just trashed into oblivion. Does anyone have any input on that please? What does say for your sites that have been affected?
Thanks.
Clint1, Like I said, I don't know if the tool is accurate - but I think it could be a clue as to what is wrong with your site's rankings on Google. Both you and johnspayne are reporting a significant drop in your rankings, and you both get the same results with this tool.

None of my sites are suffering, so I can't be much help, but maybe someone else can intrepret what "probably banned" means.

[Clint1]

---------------
Only from 1st to 6th and you're panicking?? Try going from 1st to GONE for hundreds of search phrases!

yea but I am dropping in all my terms and my competition is moving back up.

Anyone have any suggestions. I think my code is ok but who knows. I dont have the where-with-all to validate even if I could! :(

Suggestions anyone? bueller, bueller? :)

Michael
-----------------

yea but I am dropping in all my terms and my competition is moving back up.

Welcome to the "victims of google insanity". That's what's happening to everyone that was trashed. Also if you check your "competitors" in the results at G you'll probably see they have crappy sites, crappy content, non-relevant content, maybe only ONE instance of the searched-for phrase(s) on their pages, tricks that G is SUPPOSED to be against, etc., etc.

Still you're one of the luckiest ones! Most have not just been pushed back a few places, but DOZENS of pages back and even totally removed! Hell, I'd almost kill now to get up to "only a few places below" where I used to be.

No one has any suggestions (valid ones I should say) since there is STILL no pattern to their (G) insanity. Until someone can determine a pattern, then and only then can those victimized begin to do TRY and do something about it. Unfortunately, probably by then I and many others will have totally lost our businesses.

I guess I could have a suggestion in try making your site fit the parameters of the sites now holding top spots (i.e. bad content, hidden text, irrelevant pages, link farms, G ads, etc.). I am creating a duplicate website. This dupe website will only be for G. I will screw it up so G will like it. Then, on the new "site", ban all SE spider bots except for the googlebot, then on my REAL website ban the googlebot from it. Pathetic isn't it.

[Clint1]

Google Banned Tool (http://www.123promotion.co.uk/tools/googlebanned.php) "Google again cannot see this website. Its probably banned if not a fresh site."

That doesn't make sense because the site is not "banned", just trashed into oblivion. Does anyone have any input on that please? What does say for your sites that have been affected?
Thanks.
Clint1, Like I said, I don't know if the tool is accurate - but I think it could be a clue as to what is wrong with your site's rankings on Google. Both you and johnspayne are reporting a significant drop in your rankings, and you both get the same results with this tool.

None of my sites are suffering, so I can't be much help, but maybe someone else can intrepret what "probably banned" means.
------
Cspelts, John, whomever else:
I just did a test with that "google banned tool" and found that it's not accurate at all. I ran some sites through it that NOW show on the first page of search results, and some of them show the exact results as my site. Oh well.

[Clint1]

Hiya

I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to assist? I am not completely new to the IT world but new to HTML. My partner is heavily into wargaming and has decided to prmote in depth his custom painting etc. I have created a website with theassistance of some page kits and some basics of java etc from my work.

I have a google adwords campaign set up and it seems to be working ok. I am concerned as to whether the site will actually be read by spiders or whether the code is a total mess. It just has been running for a month or more and yet nothing is picked up by the search engines.

THe only thing I see is my partners responses to some of his standard forums that he visits to assist other painters and gamers.

Am I completely off track with this website?

Any help would be great!!

At this time and point, I would ignore google. It's pointless to try and do anything to appear in their index since they are senseless as to whom they will and won't index, and the reasons thereof. Work on the other SE's, then IF, that's IF G ever gets (again) their heads out of their a****, then worry about getting indexed and listed in their results. It usually takes several weeks for any SE to pick up a site.

[activeco]

The Google SERPS are currently fluctuating due to introduction of new filters.
The changes will be over in a week or two.

[freehits]

Maybe someone can help me on this:

All my sites are doing well on the web but one.

I bought this domain second hand, and google has not updated its cache for it for more than a year now!

Interestingly enough, google lists many pages of this site in its index, but not the index page - whose cache is not being updated, and whose PR shows grey.

- I wonder if just the main page is banned.

- I wonder what the maximum period of time google bans a page is.

- I contacted google, and did not get an asnwer, so I also wonder what else I can do about it. (The page has decent incoming links.)

Place a google adsense ad on this domain, I bet it comes up ad "cannot be displayed" this is google blocking the domain, not banning. meaning they wont deep spider or update the cache. Site may have abused the API key (over 1000 a day) or some other excessive google parsing.

[jawn_tech]

So what do you do if you become a Google dropping? There are a number of suggestions about how to handle this situation--the first of which is, "chill out." Chances are that Google doesn't have a vendetta against your organization.

Can I have permission to borrow this quote, and put it on a billboard over the busiest highway in Webmastertown?

The importance of that quote does help bring many other things in perspective. I do come across many people on the internet that actually believe Google is 'up to something' and is specifically watching their particular site (and usually it's for unfounded reasons). Time gets wasted on the speculating 'why' they are 'doing this to me', sort of thing, instead of searching for proactive solutions to advancing one's site's progress in the SERP's. Or sometimes one might feel insulted by Google because they are a paying customer of advertising on Google, and feel Google should deal them a better hand in the SERP's because of it.

It's all about keeping the right perspective. Once one gets past that, the research becomes all the more clearer.

[Clint1]

The Google SERPS are currently fluctuating due to introduction of new filters.
The changes will be over in a week or two.

Yep, and how the G SERP's end up is anyone's guess. There's only "minor tweaking" left according to a G employee (at that forum I mentioned). If that's the case, google will suck like a Hoover and bankrupt thousands if not millions of businesses--in favor of link farms, non-relevant content and other BS I previously mentioned.

[jmiller]

jawn tech,

all of us ego-maniacal writers love nothing more than to be quoted. quote as much as you want.

and you're right about people taking these things personally...I'm still getting emails from a man who runs a gun search site, who insists that Google is out to get him...but as I'm not sure about it, he's putting forth a full-fledged campaiagn against them and has even gotten to the point that he's trying to give me article assignments...wants a 5-6 article "punch" on the subject. Note to readers: my boss and I decide what I write about. If there's merit in a suggestion, a compelling story to it, chances are I will take it up. But no guarantees.

Google Guy's recent revelation (http://www.webpronews.com/insiderreports/searchinsider/wpn-49-20050602ClinkGoogleGuySpillsBourbonCheers.html)abo ut the Bourbon update in progress, should add some credence my assertion that things should return to normal soon.

[Clint1]

So what do you do if you become a Google dropping? There are a number of suggestions about how to handle this situation--the first of which is, "chill out." Chances are that Google doesn't have a vendetta against your organization.

Can I have permission to borrow this quote, and put it on a billboard over the busiest highway in Webmastertown?

The importance of that quote does help bring many other things in perspective. I do come across many people on the internet that actually believe Google is 'up to something' and is specifically watching their particular site (and usually it's for unfounded reasons). Time gets wasted on the speculating 'why' they are 'doing this to me', sort of thing, instead of searching for proactive solutions to advancing one's site's progress in the SERP's. Or sometimes one might feel insulted by Google because they are a paying customer of advertising on Google, and feel Google should deal them a better hand in the SERP's because of it.

It's all about keeping the right perspective. Once one gets past that, the research becomes all the more clearer.

I can't quite make out from your post if you're agreeing or disagreeing with something. ;-) But they are more than just "up to something". Word is spreading; a message sent to me at some other forum. [Non italics], @ and *** are my changes to it:

I have read quite a bit about your plight and I can see why you are angry.

Google has cost websites more than what it is worth in the stock exchange. It will continue to demote websites in the thousands so that it inflates its pay per click revenues.

The day it went from 2billion to 5 then to 8billion pages was when we suspected that google no longer can be trusted. It is the biggest spammer on the internet by dropping thousands of sites every update it brings in many more pay per click customers.

A crude but effective method.

Don't go down the path of adjusting your server-side directives or changing pages. Nothing will help. Google has singled you out and there is nothing you can do about it because their filters have targeted your site. It really is as simple as that. Within its algo your site is assigned a denominator so that it is excluded from first 100 results. Beyond the 100 to 200 you will find clusters of grouped sites.

[G Member name at forum removed] will continue to dish out cr@p so long as webmasters feast on it. Beware of the things he says and don't do as he requests. He is only here to provide yet more bulls**t to mistreated webmasters. It is google's style.

I was kicked out of the forum after exposing and finding 302 evidence against google [a type of redirect hijacking]. This led google to adjust and hide info regarding the INURL COMMAND.

My posts were removed to protect [G Member name at forum removed] and google.

Regards,
******

I think it's time that those considering informing the media, did just that.

[jawn_tech]

But whom is the media supposed to report this to -- a vast majority of people don't even know what "cached" is, let alone care about webmaster conspiracy theories which don't carry a lot of clout.

As for sites with Adsense -- doesn't mean a hill of beans in SERP's. It changes nada.

Google being a 'spammer'? Like I said, it's all about taking things in realistic perspectives, putting away fantasies that Google is out to get anyone, etc. As far as SE's go, Google has been the barameter. Those looking for some kind of pot of gold or a free handout from Google and don't find it, often jump to some conclusion that they've been "damaged". I posted in SE discussion a hypothetical situation of 'what if Google just disappeared altogether'. Google isn't a public service, just a company with the leading search engine.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no site that's non-spammy compared to Google. They just have an algorithm that yes, takes a lot of research to keep up with, may change occasionally -- and heaven forbid have quirks every now and then (but still with a much better performance rate than other SE's, IMHO), but for anyone to take it personal, I just have to say 'come on, don't put all your eggs in the Google basket to begin with.'

If we want to talk about SE's that spam themselves, take a look at Ask Jeeves. For a given query, it might say "showing 1-10 of results". But before anyone can get to organic results, they have to scroll through 10 advertisement results. To the unwary and non-savy user, one might think those are the results. So in light of other SE's, no one has a bit to complain about, as far as pointing fingers to Google is concerned.

[s_clay]

My experience with the current ongoing update: Made it thru chapters 1 and 2 of the update fine, (google guy said this update had 3.5 "improvements" - I'll call them "chapters") moving back and forth between #5 and #2 for many terms - things started getting a little messy with chapter 2.5 and I'm not sure just what chapter we're in now, but I'm moving between #5 and #9, #3 and #9 and #9 and #89 for some competitive terms in my niche.

I think the story will end soon. But not too soon, I'm worried about the hero! Wish I could take a peak at the ending...

[nelsonez]

Great article.

I was starting to panic too. We went from 1 to 6. Still dont know why. But I will look at your 10 points and see what I am doing wrong.



I think you are trying to hard and are too dependent on Google if you are panicking because you dropped from 1 to 6. Trying too hard will make you push the envelope and that will eventually get you in trouble with Google.

Interestingly all of our clients have moved up in rank during this update and only our own company site was dinged. However that happens to be very fortitious as we accidently replaced our home page with an older copy right before the update. It is making for some interestingly analysis into why we dropped.

[freehits]

Jawn, you are correct of course about the jeeves being a mess of ads with a dash of information, but this is why jeeves is only "jeeves", they have a poor product.

[cspelts]

I think you are trying to hard and are too dependent on Google if you are panicking because you dropped from 1 to 6.
Moving from the number two slot to the number one slot can significantly improve your traffic - so I can definitely understand why he's unhappy he dropped to number six.

Yeah, we all need to diversify and not rely only on Google, but there's nothing wrong with looking to move up, even if you are near the top.

[activeco]

Moving from the number two slot to the number one slot can significantly improve your traffic - so I can definitely understand why he's unhappy he dropped to number six.

You are very right about that. I don't think the quality difference in results is often so big to deserve huge differences in traffic.
I think Google should introduce a new tweak - Rotating Serps.
Something like: first 20 sites rotating in positions according to their values; the site with the highest score spending most of the time on first position but not ALL the time and so on with the rest.

[Clint1]

But whom is the media supposed to report this to -- a vast majority of people don't even know what "cached" is, let alone care about webmaster conspiracy theories which don't carry a lot of clout.

As for sites with Adsense -- doesn't mean a hill of beans in SERP's. It changes nada.

Google being a 'spammer'? Like I said, it's all about taking things in realistic perspectives, putting away fantasies that Google is out to get anyone, etc. As far as SE's go, Google has been the barameter. Those looking for some kind of pot of gold or a free handout from Google and don't find it, often jump to some conclusion that they've been "damaged". I posted in SE discussion a hypothetical situation of 'what if Google just disappeared altogether'. Google isn't a public service, just a company with the leading search engine.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no site that's non-spammy compared to Google. They just have an algorithm that yes, takes a lot of research to keep up with, may change occasionally -- and heaven forbid have quirks every now and then (but still with a much better performance rate than other SE's, IMHO), but for anyone to take it personal, I just have to say 'come on, don't put all your eggs in the Google basket to begin with.'

If we want to talk about SE's that spam themselves, take a look at Ask Jeeves. For a given query, it might say "showing 1-10 of results". But before anyone can get to organic results, they have to scroll through 10 advertisement results. To the unwary and non-savy user, one might think those are the results. So in light of other SE's, no one has a bit to complain about, as far as pointing fingers to Google is concerned.

I know, that's what sucks about it since the typical user doesn't know what's been transpiring. All we can do is try and get the word out, and to whom; well, that would be anyone we possibly can.

That's not my words in my post (the italics), as I stated that's a direct quote from a message I was sent on another forum. I'll GLADLY put you in touch with the guy if you would like so you can talk to him more about it. I'm sure it would be very illuminating for you. ;-)

"Fantasies" that G is out to get anyone? Not hardly. They have proven they ARE out to get small businesses. Just read: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/29621-1-10.htm, plus my long post on the first page of this thread.

The best thing that could happen is if G did disappear! For that would mean that SE users would then be using the OTHER SE's that are returning RELEVANT results!

"Leading search engine"? Well they certainly were the best, but not anymore, they've trashed their own index with BS. I guess I should say, they still may be the leading SE right NOW, but that is going to soon change...if they don't change back to pre May 21st.

"...no one has a bit to complain about, as far as pointing fingers to Google is concerned"??? WHERE have you been Jawn??? You obviously aren't one of the thousands/millions whom are loosing their businesses over this and having to lay-off employees. Again, I suggest you read the ~2500 posts at that URL above and please wake up to what's going on. As of now, pretty much the only people that DO now what's going on is those that have been victimized by this "change" or whatever you want to call it (and we can do is inform others). But, that's also changing, others are finding out what is happening thanks to forums such as this one.

If you would like, I'll gladly send you off list some detailed examples of search phrases I've been monitoring that are now returning: unrelated content, shopping directories, link exchange pages/link farms, spam sites, etc., instead of the websites that SELL the searched for phrase.

[Clint1]

Interestingly all of our clients have moved up in rank during this update and only our own company site was dinged. However that happens to be very fortitious as we accidently replaced our home page with an older copy right before the update. It is making for some interestingly analysis into why we dropped.

Eric can you please elaborate on that?
Thanks.

[Clint1]

Since we for some reason can't edit our posts here, I have to post a MOST UNFORTUNATE correction to my post on the 1st page 4th from the bottom and specifically my line "...all victims can hope for is that G will lose its user-base to Yahoo, MSN, AOL, Alta-Vista, etc., (which I might add has not been affected and still are returning sensible relevant content)." To my horror, I forgot that AOL, AND Netscape, are both using the Google index! So, G victims are getting triple-screwed here. Hopefully, with our help AOL and Netscape will hear about this and stop using G as their SE. I know they don't want their SE's screwed up the way G is, and that's exactly what is happening.

[cspelts]

As of now, pretty much the only people that DO now what's going on is those that have been victimized by this "change" or whatever you want to call it (and we can do is inform others). But, that's also changing, others are finding out what is happening thanks to forums such as this one.

Clint1, can you share with us what type of sites are suffering? I've seen only minor shifting for my sites, and it's been positive. For the record, my main sites are for newspapers and are content-rich, not shopping - but I'm curious to know what the general trends are.

[jawn_tech]

I know, that's what sucks about it since the typical user doesn't know what's been transpiring. All we can do is try and get the word out, and to whom; well, that would be anyone we possibly can.

That's not my words in my post (the italics), as I stated that's a direct quote from a message I was sent on another forum. I'll GLADLY put you in touch with the guy if you would like so you can talk to him more about it. I'm sure it would be very illuminating for you. ;-)

"Fantasies" that G is out to get anyone? Not hardly. They have proven they ARE out to get small businesses. Just read: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/29621-1-10.htm, plus my long post on the first page of this thread.

The best thing that could happen is if G did disappear! For that would mean that SE users would then be using the OTHER SE's that are returning RELEVANT results!

"Leading search engine"? Well they certainly were the best, but not anymore, they've trashed their own index with BS. I guess I should say, they still may be the leading SE right NOW, but that is going to soon change...if they don't change back to pre May 21st.

"...no one has a bit to complain about, as far as pointing fingers to Google is concerned"??? WHERE have you been Jawn??? You obviously aren't one of the thousands/millions whom are loosing their businesses over this and having to lay-off employees. Again, I suggest you read the ~2500 posts at that URL above and please wake up to what's going on. As of now, pretty much the only people that DO now what's going on is those that have been victimized by this "change" or whatever you want to call it (and we can do is inform others). But, that's also changing, others are finding out what is happening thanks to forums such as this one.

If you would like, I'll gladly send you off list some detailed examples of search phrases I've been monitoring that are now returning: unrelated content, shopping directories, link exchange pages/link farms, spam sites, etc., instead of the websites that SELL the searched for phrase.


one of the thousands/millions whom are loosing their businesses over this and having to lay-off employees.

Regarding the repeated quote... Far, far over the top and unsubstantiated.

Of course I can empathise with sales setbacks when the serps don't go one's way, and of course I'm aware of Google's performance lately. A couple sites I manage have taken shifts. But no, the companies I work with aren't going under, because they weren't solely dependant on Google in the first place. Any company that has employees should never be that foolish. That would be crazy, and anyone who was completely dependant on Google can only blame their own poor business decisions and marketing, not Google. Again, perspective perspective perspective --- let's keep it straight. What Google is -- a search engine. What Google is not --- a welfare office. They can up and decide to start listing sites alphabetically if they wanted to. Then sure, we can all say the search engine would really stink.

But what we can't say -- with any merit whatsoever --- is that anyone is "victimized". 'Come on.

[Clint1]

I know, that's what sucks about it since the typical user doesn't know what's been transpiring. All we can do is try and get the word out, and to whom; well, that would be anyone we possibly can.

That's not my words in my post (the italics), as I stated that's a direct quote from a message I was sent on another forum. I'll GLADLY put you in touch with the guy if you would like so you can talk to him more about it. I'm sure it would be very illuminating for you. ;-)

"Fantasies" that G is out to get anyone? Not hardly. They have proven they ARE out to get small businesses. Just read: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/29621-1-10.htm, plus my long post on the first page of this thread.

The best thing that could happen is if G did disappear! For that would mean that SE users would then be using the OTHER SE's that are returning RELEVANT results!

"Leading search engine"? Well they certainly were the best, but not anymore, they've trashed their own index with BS. I guess I should say, they still may be the leading SE right NOW, but that is going to soon change...if they don't change back to pre May 21st.

"...no one has a bit to complain about, as far as pointing fingers to Google is concerned"??? WHERE have you been Jawn??? You obviously aren't one of the thousands/millions whom are loosing their businesses over this and having to lay-off employees. Again, I suggest you read the ~2500 posts at that URL above and please wake up to what's going on. As of now, pretty much the only people that DO now what's going on is those that have been victimized by this "change" or whatever you want to call it (and we can do is inform others). But, that's also changing, others are finding out what is happening thanks to forums such as this one.

If you would like, I'll gladly send you off list some detailed examples of search phrases I've been monitoring that are now returning: unrelated content, shopping directories, link exchange pages/link farms, spam sites, etc., instead of the websites that SELL the searched for phrase.


one of the thousands/millions whom are loosing their businesses over this and having to lay-off employees.

Regarding the repeated quote... Far, far over the top and unsubstantiated.

Of course I can empathise with sales setbacks when the serps don't go one's way, and of course I'm aware of Google's performance lately. A couple sites I manage have taken shifts. But no, the companies I work with aren't going under, because they weren't solely dependant on Google in the first place. Any company that has employees should never be that foolish. That would be crazy, and anyone who was completely dependant on Google can only blame their own poor business decisions and marketing, not Google. Again, perspective perspective perspective --- let's keep it straight. What Google is -- a search engine. What Google is not --- a welfare office. They can up and decide to start listing sites alphabetically if they wanted to. Then sure, we can all say the search engine would really stink.

But what we can't say -- with any merit whatsoever --- is that anyone is "victimized". 'Come on.

So how much stock do you hold in google? Where the hell do you get off saying "unsubstantiated"??? So, I'm making all this up?? No one has been "victimized"??? Sheeesh. JUST ASK and do YOUR OWN RESEARCH if you think I'm a lair!! You are so far off target it's ridiculous. Whether "victimized", or, if you choose: "affected by", "unfortunate casualty of", "among the thousands negatively affected by this update", "just so happened to be the baby that was tossed out with the bathwater", fine, whatever you want to call it. If you want to use one of your more "politically correct terms", fine, I accept your definition. A rose by any other name is still a rose. The bottom line and end result is the SAME.

You obviously don't know what's going on Jawn, and, I suggest again that you READ the posts at the forum I mentioned and you'll see what I have been saying IS "substantiated"!! Don't judge me and call me a "crackpot" between the lines, toss around "unsubstantiated" and "no one has been victimized" before you do IN-DEPTH INVESTIGATING. You should know to do that!

Furthermore: one can see the point about being "solely dependent on Google", but for most online small business owners, like myself, it wasn't originally like that NOR INTENDED! Before G, there were about 10 worthwhile search engines, Yahoo was the biggest, and we ranked good on all of them. If you dropped on one of them, it was no big deal, you were ok on the others. Now, through no choice of mine, the G has squeezed out all the others to the point where other SE results are irrelevant, and I now find myself in G's hands. I didn't ask them to take over the internet. G has just become so dominant that any simple downward move hits us in the wallet, and total removal is nothing short of DEVASTATING. I was always aware that it was a bit of a free ride getting listed in any SE, but I didn't want, nor expect it to end up being down to one SE. THIS is what has happened, and there is no way to change that. If one happens to be in a business which DOES NOT RELY upon SE SERP's, then they of course can toss around comments to the effect of "don't rely upon SE's" and the like. That's easy for them to say!

Even though most of us (I am) still on top for most (but not all) of the search phrases on other SE's where I was at G, when you just so happen to have received the bulk of your traffic therefore sales from G, it stands to reason if you're not in them you're screwed. Even if one's business is based on the OTHER SE's, and even other marketing areas, if so few are using the other SE's and other "marketing areas", it's not going to help and never make up for the damaged caused by G. I don't think anyone intended to solely base their business on google, it's just the way it happened due to their user-base. Those of us affected are sort of "victims of their success" in a back-handed way.

Just because "the companies you work with aren't going under" doesn't mean that OTHERS ARE NOT! Did you ever stop to think that these companies of which you speak may NOT RELY UPON SE SERP's??? As in, companies you work with that have little or nothing to do with "John surfer" and what he may search for in an SE??? It of course depends on the LINE OF WORK of said business. I've said it before and obviously I have to say it again: If one's business is in the sales of products, when a potential customer needs to purchase products you may sell, they are going to go online to a SE, and, the majority of the time will go to G to search for the product. There's no way around that, nor any way to change that. As long as potential customers for your products are going to search an SE online for products you carry, they are going to use G (and AOL & Netscape) the vast majority of the time. That's an undeniable fact.

If you have not personally been affected by this, then great. Good for you, I'm happy for you for I would not wish this upon ANYONE. But just because YOU HAVE NOT, don't even think for a SECOND that it "doesn't exist" and that no one else has been victimized....oh sorry, "adversely affected" I should say.

[Clint1]

As of now, pretty much the only people that DO now what's going on is those that have been victimized by this "change" or whatever you want to call it (and we can do is inform others). But, that's also changing, others are finding out what is happening thanks to forums such as this one.

Clint1, can you share with us what type of sites are suffering? I've seen only minor shifting for my sites, and it's been positive. For the record, my main sites are for newspapers and are content-rich, not shopping - but I'm curious to know what the general trends are.

Hello. Well from what I've seen it's been, yes, mostly "shopping" sites, sites that sell products that have been adversely affected. This is the only "general" trend I've noticed, and it's VERY general. This of course does not mean to say that information only sites have not been adversely affected, some have. But the bulk are sales sites.

There seems to be (for lack of a better term) a G "blacklist" of sites but no one has been able to determine WHY sites are on this "list". For the record, AGAIN, this "list" of theirs is senseless since it includes LEGIT, DECENT, sites using ORIGINAL CONTENT, selling of goods and even sometimes proprietary goods on SECURED webpages, sites NOT using any kind of cheating redirects, cloaked pages or cloaked IP's/domains, law-abiding sites, etc. Also as I have pointed out, most of the sites NOW appearing at the top of G SERP's (for terms which I have been monitoring) are not only in most cases non-relevant content, but also are indeed the "blackhat" sites, sites that ARE using "questionable tactics" such as plagiarism, copyright violations, cloaked IP's or domains, hidden text, and in the rarer event of sales sites appearing; collecting customers' CC#'s on unencrypted non-secure webpages, link farms, etc., etc.,--for which most of these things appear on G's "webmaster" page for what NOT to do!! This "list" of theirs is BACKWARDS. They are rewarding the sites they should be BANNING as per their OWN TOS agreement!!

[maxsun]

I completely concur with Clint. Those of you who haven't been hit (yet) with a Google downgrade/delisting are just as vulnerable as the rest of us.

So what can we do about it, as a community, as SEO's and Bloggers?

Clint: What about creating a PRESS RELEASE (being sure to STICK to the facts)? If just ONE major news organization picks it up, you can bet the stock will drop 5% at least. That will get some serious attention from the Google guys in a way calling them, emailing them and leaving them messages will not!

You'll expose their tactics and hit them in their pocket books now. Taint them in the eyes of the nation and people WILL move to other search engines. The world sympathizes with the small business owner.

As for the rest of us? I know I don't use Google anymore and I tell my friends/family/colleagues about Google every chance I get! And most of them have switched...

I completely sympathize with what you're saying, but what about taking some of that passion (and anger) and creating a well thought out Press Release? Spread the work OUTSIDE the forum!!!!!

[/b]

[Clint1]

I completely concur with Clint. Those of you who haven't been hit (yet) with a Google downgrade/delisting are just as vulnerable as the rest of us.

So what can we do about it, as a community, as SEO's and Bloggers?

Clint: What about creating a PRESS RELEASE (being sure to STICK to the facts)? If just ONE major news organization picks it up, you can bet the stock will drop 5% at least. That will get some serious attention from the Google guys in a way calling them, emailing them and leaving them messages will not!

You'll expose their tactics and hit them in their pocket books now. Taint them in the eyes of the nation and people WILL move to other search engines. The world sympathizes with the small business owner.

As for the rest of us? I know I don't use Google anymore and I tell my friends/family/colleagues about Google every chance I get! And most of them have switched...

I completely sympathize with what you're saying, but what about taking some of that passion (and anger) and creating a well thought out Press Release? Spread the work OUTSIDE the forum!!!!!

[/b]
Hello, some are doing just that. I have done this with CNN so far, and will do it with all the other news organizations ASAP. The reason I did it with CNN is simply because on June 1st they ("Wolf Blitzer Reports") coincidentally did a story on G, "Google Bubble?" it was called. They didn't mention anything about this, so that's why I emailed them to comment on the story with this new information.

For the record, I am NOT out to "get anyone". I am simply totally out of ideas on how I and countless thousands of others can get our lives back. I am 45 with medical disabilities, and with a family, and I've busted my a$$ for years to make ends meet with my business for which I've slaved over to compete with the "GIANTS" of the industry. I and countless others, CANNOT AFFORD what has happened. We could stand to lose everything. Looks like the new "home in the refrigerator box" is getting closer and closer.

As I have stated, G refuses to answer the 30+ emails I've sent (and still sending) and will not return my calls. Out of desperation, we have to contact outside sources to get to the bottom of what is REALLY going on (and I don't just mean it's an "update"), and FOR ANSWERS to our questions; of which the most important one being: WHAT CAN WE DO TO GET BACK OUR RANKS. Maybe the media can find this out some way. I feel they at LEAST owe us, those ruined, an EXPLANATION as to their actions. I personally would be happy with just that, a DETAILED EXPLANATION as to the how's and why's, then I and those affected can probably work with that and try to recover from this ruin.

No, I'm not saying they "owe" us anything nor are "obligated" to say anything other than an explanation. That's the decent thing to do, but as we are finding out, G is not decent. Since they refuse to give any explanations on their removals or senseless bans, they are forcing negative media attention upon themselves.

[brian.mark]

If it is every shopping site, then every consumer must be going elsewhere to buy stuff since there wouldn't be any product related search data in Google. We're personally seeing some of our best sales days ever, but we don't rely on Google much for traffic. The other engines have a much larger market share the Google does now, so if you're not getting a majority of traffic elsewhere you're doing something wrong.

We've not been above about 14% of traffic from Google for the past year. That said, we're seeing incredible sales growth (about 30% / month) during that period as well and haven't had any down months. Even when we did a restructuring and used a 301 for just about every page on our site to go to the new locations (meaning we didn't show any pages in Google for a while), we still showed growth.

If Google were promising you top ranking and then changed something, then you could say victimized. They promise nothing to anyone. They just have a policy of trying to keep adjusting their SERPs until they feel they have it right, then they adjust again to try to get rid of more spam, then again when the spammers get back into the results.

I suppose you also think you've been victimized by customers that stop talking about your company after referring a bunch of new customers to you in the past. Or, maybe you're victimized by affiliates that decide to try a new program and drop yours. These are essentially the same thing as Google giving you less traffic.

I'm guessing that Google is doing a major shift to moving product related results to Froogle and leaving Google for information searches. We've seen a lot more Froogle traffic this month, so we worked on feed optimization again. That's resulting in 100's of thousands of dollars for us.

If what you're doing isn't working, find something new. This would include other engines, feeds, and any other resources that are available for qualified traffic. If you spent the energy that's been spent complaining here on making your site better for other engines and for tweaking feeds, you'd already be well on the way to recovery.

Brian.

[freehits]

Not a very sympathetic crowd in this thread. I dont think the response of "top complaining", is any better or worse than the repeated "I told you so's".

I imainge these people whos livlihoods have been affected were hoping for constructive notions more than alot of reminders of possible mistakes made.

[jawn_tech]

Clint, clint clint. My suggestion, by reading your over heated, over reaction would be to read my post a few more times until you fully grasp what I'm saying.

The companies I work with -- of course they're not going under because they don't depend solely on Google's SERPs. To do that is just plain stupid. That's like companies that rely on the weather being sunny, and when it rains, they collapse. Absurd. That's why there have historically been countless articles here on WPW over the years in marketing, especially dealing with off-line marketing. SERPS are not supposed to be a marketing tool. It just works out that way. So if a company goes under because Google SERPs behave differently, my point is the finger-pointing is unsubstantiated. The finger pointing should be directed internally, to whoever's idea it was in the first place to put the life of a company in the hands of Google -- or allow it to happen that way.

Quite frankly, this forum is the one of the most informed forums on the net, and no one would be a moderator here if they didn't have some sense of what was going on in the climate of the net. If you want to name any specific examples here, you are certainly free to do so, if any exist. Name one company that's gone under, that has employees, because of Google SERP's not going their way. And then I can show you a company that should fire their marketing director for being ignorant. But still, feel free to name just one, instead of saying 'they're out there'. The discussion is here, so name just one here.

About politically correct verbage-- I really don't give two craps about it. I'm merely saying that 'victimized' is an entirely different meaning than 'affected'. You're not calling a rose a rose, you're calling a goose a rose. I'm merely pointing out the discrepancy. Google owes no one absolutely anything at all. If a company wants to bolster sales using Google, they can pay for advertising like anyone else.

Crying because a free handout didn't go one's way -- well, rational thinking doesn't merit it.

You are entitled to your opinion. The point of the discussion is to pretty much get over it, and be pro-active instead of reactive.


For the record, I am NOT out to "get anyone".

Neither is Google my friend. Whether they stink or are great -- that's anyone's perspective. I've got a list of my own of things Google could improve on. I just find it unsettling to see companies or entrepreneurs dig themselves in a further hole by wasting their resource of time by focusing on what they don't have, instead of using what they do have -- and looking for other opportunities to succeed. Backlashing never did any amount of constructive good for anyone, not one kilobyte.

Regardless, best wishes to your success clint.

[cspelts]

I am simply totally out of ideas on how I and countless thousands of others can get our lives back. I am 45 with medical disabilities, and with a family, and I've busted my a$$ for years to make ends meet with my business for which I've slaved over to compete with the "GIANTS" of the industry. I and countless others, CANNOT AFFORD what has happened. We could stand to lose everything. Looks like the new "home in the refrigerator box" is getting closer and closer.
If you are truly out of ideas and showing up on Google is that important to your business model, then why don't you try AdWords? Yes it's paying for something you used to get for free, but it's the only way to guarantee a listing on Google. You may have to shift your budget around in order to include some money for marketing, but most companies spend something on marketing.

Good luck with your business!

[jawn_tech]

Not a very sympathetic crowd in this thread. I dont think the response of "top complaining", is any better or worse than the repeated "I told you so's".

I imainge these people whos livlihoods have been affected were hoping for constructive notions more than alot of reminders of possible mistakes made.

That is a very good reminder. IMO, I think with the diverse range of personalities we have, it's good to have a mixture of both to provide adequate feedback and alternatives.

A poster may post to health forum about his intent to sue the Nestea company, because every time he mixes up a glass of their instant iced tea, he gets a throbbing pain in his eye. One poster may respond with "try taking an aspirin to make the pain go away." Another would say "try taking the spoon out before you drink it."

Then a third may come along and say, "try all of the above before you sue the company. Or, just drink something else." We can apply that to any Google, DMOZ, or any other topic and eventually we'll get to a reasonable solution. :)

[davidyuan]

The Google SERPS are currently fluctuating due to introduction of new filters.
The changes will be over in a week or two.

Support, all of my sites are still fluctuating.

[send2paul]

Just as a point of interest on a few things... Here: Laser Eye Surgery (http://www.blogstudio.com/woodgnome/laser.html), I don't use:

1. Backlinks, or any external links

I do use:

1. Lots of keywords/phrases for laser eye surgery related search queries.

What does this get me? A good to reasonable ranking in Google for various search queries, and, most importantly, a very good Google Adsense click rate conversion - as the only way out of the site is via a click on a Google Ad.

So, in this great debate, (where Adense only appeared once, or twice), using links/backlinks could actually be detrimental to your overall profitability if you carry Adsense on your site as a way of revenue as well.

(As with my site - I'm talking specifically about "information" sites, not so much about sites that sell products).

[cspelts]

send2paul, backlinks refer to links on other sites that point to your site - so they are always a good thing - they only lead traffic in, not out!

Your Laser Eye Surgery page is hosted on a site with lots of backlinks - blogstudio.com/woodgnome/ is a PR5 and has 1,254 backlinks according to MarketLeap (http://www.marketleap.com/publinkpop/default.htm). So your high rankings for that page are due to backlinks!

[Clint1]

I am simply totally out of ideas on how I and countless thousands of others can get our lives back. I am 45 with medical disabilities, and with a family, and I've busted my a$$ for years to make ends meet with my business for which I've slaved over to compete with the "GIANTS" of the industry. I and countless others, CANNOT AFFORD what has happened. We could stand to lose everything. Looks like the new "home in the refrigerator box" is getting closer and closer.
If you are truly out of ideas and showing up on Google is that important to your business model, then why don't you try AdWords? Yes it's paying for something you used to get for free, but it's the only way to guarantee a listing on Google. You may have to shift your budget around in order to include some money for marketing, but most companies spend something on marketing.

Good luck with your business!
Ordinarily that may make sense, but I thought I pointed out (maybe I didn't) that's it's senseless to try anything right now with G. The only sure-fire thing is to get them to personally put you back where you were, which is not going to happen. There are also many that believe they were dumped for using AdWords.
Thanks. :)

[Clint1]

If it is every shopping site, then every consumer must be going elsewhere to buy stuff since there wouldn't be any product related search data in Google. We're personally seeing some of our best sales days ever, but we don't rely on Google much for traffic. The other engines have a much larger market share the Google does now, so if you're not getting a majority of traffic elsewhere you're doing something wrong.

We've not been above about 14% of traffic from Google for the past year. That said, we're seeing incredible sales growth (about 30% / month) during that period as well and haven't had any down months. Even when we did a restructuring and used a 301 for just about every page on our site to go to the new locations (meaning we didn't show any pages in Google for a while), we still showed growth.

If Google were promising you top ranking and then changed something, then you could say victimized. They promise nothing to anyone. They just have a policy of trying to keep adjusting their SERPs until they feel they have it right, then they adjust again to try to get rid of more spam, then again when the spammers get back into the results.

I suppose you also think you've been victimized by customers that stop talking about your company after referring a bunch of new customers to you in the past. Or, maybe you're victimized by affiliates that decide to try a new program and drop yours. These are essentially the same thing as Google giving you less traffic.

I'm guessing that Google is doing a major shift to moving product related results to Froogle and leaving Google for information searches. We've seen a lot more Froogle traffic this month, so we worked on feed optimization again. That's resulting in 100's of thousands of dollars for us.

If what you're doing isn't working, find something new. This would include other engines, feeds, and any other resources that are available for qualified traffic. If you spent the energy that's been spent complaining here on making your site better for other engines and for tweaking feeds, you'd already be well on the way to recovery.

Brian.

Ho boy. Some just don't read. First, I don't recall anyone saying it was "ALL SHOPPING SITES". Secondly, since you are "personally seeing some of our best sales days ever, but we don't rely on Google much for traffic", well that pretty much sums up your attitude. You are obviously unaffected and cannot offer an objective standpoint on any "why's" or "how's", nor not only fully comprehend what is going on, but most importantly can't understand HOW one can end up in this position. You of course cannot speak from personal experience in this matter because you are unaffected, therefore cannot relate to what is happening.

No, the other SE's DO NOT have a larger market share that G. I also covered that in previous post(s). AOL and Netscape also use the G database. G + AOL + NS users is a large majority of users. As I also pointed out, this exact amount is also irrelevant when one just so happens to get the bulk of their traffic from SE's: "The fact that G has such a massive user base, makes other SE's and traffic areas/methods almost irrelevant. Whether or not G is 60%, 85%, whatever, is also irrelevant. The fact is, and remains, they are huge and at either 85%, 60%, 50%, etc.; huge enough that when one is deleted from G, spells doom for most of us that just so happened to have received the bulk of our traffic from an SE--Google. When a potential customer needs to purchase (the infamous) 'blue widget', they are going to go online to a SE (search engine), and, ~60-85% of time will go to G to search for said 'blue widget'. There's no way around that."

Also, (once again), "I'm not saying they 'owe' us anything nor are 'obligated' to say anything other than an explanation. That's the decent thing to do, but as we are finding out, G is not decent. Since they refuse to give any explanations on their removals or senseless bans, they are forcing negative media attention upon themselves." So, I don't recall claiming nor insinuating that G "promised" ANYTHING. So please don't try and read something into other's posts that never existed.

Additionally: "They just have a policy of trying to keep adjusting their SERPs until they feel they have it right, then they adjust again to try to get rid of more spam, then again when the spammers get back into the results. " Well that's a mouthful there. Have you ever heard of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? As I have also previously indicated, they had, HAD by far the best, most stellar SE in existence. However, (again as I once stated) they insist on throwing the proverbial monkey wrench into their wheels of success. It already WAS "right", with their results returning SENSIBLE RELEVANT content. However this is no longer the case, which is supposed to be one of the points of this spiraling discussion. Their recent "tweaking" or whatever you want to call it (again, repeating myself), has placed MORE Spam, non-relevant content, directories, link farms, etc., etc., at the TOP OF RESULTS for terms for which I have been monitoring. Now, does that sound like progress to you? If it does, then you must own/operate one or more of these types of websites. WHATEVER they are "Trying" to do, WHATEVER their "intentions", WHATEVER they are "hoping to accomplish" is totally BESIDE THE POINT AND IRRELEVANT when so many countless thousands of TOTALLY INNOCENT PARTIES are TRASHED in the process!!! Now what in the hell is so difficult to comprehend about that??? That, and ONLY THAT is the MAIN POINT AND FOCUS of my issue and that of many thousands of others as well with what is taking place!!!!! AGAIN, they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater!!!!! Whatever the HELL they are trying to accomplish, has resulted in the removal/ban/deletion of MANY THOUSANDS of decent legit small business owners!!!!

So can we all leave out all the other bull$h!t as to "don't depend on google", "don't' rely upon google", "you're an idiot for relying on google", and on and on.....hindsight is USELESS HERE!! I reiterate: Whether or not G is 60%, 85%, whatever, is unimportant. The fact remains, whether at either 85%, 60%, 50%, etc.; they are huge enough that when one is deleted from G, spells doom for most of us that just so happened to have received the bulk of our traffic from an SE--Google.

Other SE's (AGAIN) are IRRELEVANT. Other "marketing techniques" are IRRELEVANT. Apparently you also missed this, please read it and pay particular attention to what is now underlined:

.......one can see the point about being "solely dependent on Google", but for most online small business owners, like myself, it wasn't originally like that NOR INTENDED! Before G, there were about 10 worthwhile search engines, Yahoo was the biggest, and we ranked good on all of them. If you dropped on one of them, it was no big deal, you were ok on the others. Now, through no choice of mine, the G has squeezed out all the others to the point where other SE results are irrelevant, and I now find myself in G's hands. I didn't ask them to take over the internet. G has just become so dominant that any simple downward move hits us in the wallet, and total removal is nothing short of DEVASTATING. I was always aware that it was a bit of a free ride getting listed in any SE, but I didn't want, nor expect it to end up being down to one SE. THIS is what has happened, and there is no way to change that. If one happens to be in a business which DOES NOT RELY upon SE SERP's, then they of course can toss around comments to the effect of "don't rely upon SE's" and the like. That's easy for them to say!

Even though most of us (I am) still on top for most (but not all) of the search phrases on other SE's where I was at G, when you just so happen to have received the bulk of your traffic therefore sales from G, it stands to reason if you're not in them you're screwed. Even if one's business is based on the OTHER SE's, and even other marketing areas, if so few are using the other SE's and other "marketing areas", it's not going to help and never make up for the damaged caused by G. I don't think anyone intended to solely base their business on google, it's just the way it happened due to their user-base. Those of us affected are sort of "victims of their success" in a back-handed way.

Now if you, or anyone else doesn't have any information on WHAT TO DO GET BACK IN GOOGLE AFTER BEING REMOVED (which I point out is supposed to be the TOPIC of this entire thread), then your posts are of no help. My "attention" isn't "focused on complaining". My attention (unfortunately) seems to be focused on REPLYING to posts which have NOTHING TO DO with the topic of this thread, and my attention is FOCUSED on what to do to get the many thousands of us removed from G, BACK IN G. THAT is it!
Thank you.

[Clint1]

Clint, clint clint. My suggestion, by reading your over heated, over reaction would be to read my post a few more times until you fully grasp what I'm saying.

The companies I work with -- of course they're not going under because they don't depend solely on Google's SERPs. To do that is just plain stupid. That's like companies that rely on the weather being sunny, and when it rains, they collapse. Absurd. That's why there have historically been countless articles here on WPW over the years in marketing, especially dealing with off-line marketing. SERPS are not supposed to be a marketing tool. It just works out that way. So if a company goes under because Google SERPs behave differently, my point is the finger-pointing is unsubstantiated. The finger pointing should be directed internally, to whoever's idea it was in the first place to put the life of a company in the hands of Google -- or allow it to happen that way.

Quite frankly, this forum is the one of the most informed forums on the net, and no one would be a moderator here if they didn't have some sense of what was going on in the climate of the net. If you want to name any specific examples here, you are certainly free to do so, if any exist. Name one company that's gone under, that has employees, because of Google SERP's not going their way. And then I can show you a company that should fire their marketing director for being ignorant. But still, feel free to name just one, instead of saying 'they're out there'. The discussion is here, so name just one here.

About politically correct verbage-- I really don't give two craps about it. I'm merely saying that 'victimized' is an entirely different meaning than 'affected'. You're not calling a rose a rose, you're calling a goose a rose. I'm merely pointing out the discrepancy. Google owes no one absolutely anything at all. If a company wants to bolster sales using Google, they can pay for advertising like anyone else.

Crying because a free handout didn't go one's way -- well, rational thinking doesn't merit it.

You are entitled to your opinion. The point of the discussion is to pretty much get over it, and be pro-active instead of reactive.


For the record, I am NOT out to "get anyone".

Neither is Google my friend. Whether they stink or are great -- that's anyone's perspective. I've got a list of my own of things Google could improve on. I just find it unsettling to see companies or entrepreneurs dig themselves in a further hole by wasting their resource of time by focusing on what they don't have, instead of using what they do have -- and looking for other opportunities to succeed. Backlashing never did any amount of constructive good for anyone, not one kilobyte.

Regardless, best wishes to your success clint.

Ok, I read your post again, now I suggest you please read mine for the first time (which you apparently never did) and also please see what I just posted with regards to Brian's post. As I pointed out to him, your posts are nothing but hindsight and add nothing to the original intent of this thread started by Jmiller. So PLEASE, take the time and read what I posted to him.

No, "the point of this discussion" is not to be "proactive", nor "get over it" (which is rather ridiculous and is about as helpful to us as a fan on the surface of the Sun), its intent IS INDEED "reactive". See the original intent of Jmiller's post "Are You A Google Dropping? Ten Ways To Get Back To #1".

I mentioned to you can go to the Bourbon Update thread (now in Part 4) at the WmW forum. You can see your "examples" their all you want. You can also go to a dozen OTHER forums and see more of your "examples". Citing example after example accomplishes nothing helpful, it only prove things to you which I should not have to do, and again is not the purpose nor intent of this thread. This does not help those of us "AFFECTED" (if that's what you choose) by this issue. If you'd like to start another thread on that, fine, that may help some but personally I don't have the time for it nor see how it can help. A thread like this has been started on WmW where those removed have tried to find commonalities, yet still none exist.

While this forum may be one of the most informed forums on the net, it's not regarding this issue. Only today was something posted on the dubbed "Bourbon" update, and on the sticky thread ("Google Update.....") no one there seemed to know what was going on, and there have been no posts on it after mine.

I fully realize and respect you are a mod here and can of course post what you wish. Those of us......"affected" by this update still need and still request pertinent information on how to get our G SERP's back. Anything else at this point is unfortunately unhelpful. Just because they are not a lot of postees here doesn't meant there are none watching it for answers. I know of a lot of people......"affected" by this issue that are monitoring this thread for answers. So please, we all are awaiting information as to commonalties in sites removed, WHY it happened, what to do about it, and how to get back our positions. Anyone with sites removed can PM me if you don't want to post your sites and we can do some comparisons.

Thank you for your wishes.

[brian.mark]

No, the other SE's DO NOT have a larger market share that G. I also covered that in previous post(s). AOL and Netscape also use the G database. G + AOL + NS users is a large majority of users. As I also pointed out, this exact amount is also irrelevant when one just so happens to get the bulk of their traffic from SE's: "The fact that G has such a massive user base, makes other SE's and traffic areas/methods almost irrelevant. Whether or not G is 60%, 85%, whatever, is also irrelevant. The fact is, and remains, they are huge and at either 85%, 60%, 50%, etc.; huge enough that when one is deleted from G, spells doom for most of us that just so happened to have received the bulk of our traffic from an SE--Google. When a potential customer needs to purchase (the infamous) 'blue widget', they are going to go online to a SE (search engine), and, ~60-85% of time will go to G to search for said 'blue widget'. There's no way around that."
There is no 85%, 60%, or even 50%. Get the facts: http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/article.php/2156431.



Also, (once again), "I'm not saying they 'owe' us anything nor are 'obligated' to say anything other than an explanation. That's the decent thing to do, but as we are finding out, G is not decent. Since they refuse to give any explanations on their removals or senseless bans, they are forcing negative media attention upon themselves." So, I don't recall claiming nor insinuating that G "promised" ANYTHING. So please don't try and read something into other's posts that never existed.

Saying you're victimized means "To get money or something else from by deceitful trickery". If they weren't promising anything, then how would they be guilty of deceitful trickery?


Additionally: "They just have a policy of trying to keep adjusting their SERPs until they feel they have it right, then they adjust again to try to get rid of more spam, then again when the spammers get back into the results. " Well that's a mouthful there. Have you ever heard of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? As I have also previously indicated, they had, HAD by far the best, most stellar SE in existence. However, (again as I once stated) they insist on throwing the proverbial monkey wrench into their wheels of success. It already WAS "right", with their results returning SENSIBLE RELEVANT content. However this is no longer the case, which is supposed to be one of the points of this spiraling discussion. Their recent "tweaking" or whatever you want to call it (again, repeating myself), has placed MORE Spam, non-relevant content, directories, link farms, etc., etc., at the TOP OF RESULTS for terms for which I have been monitoring. Now, does that sound like progress to you? If it does, then you must own/operate one or more of these types of websites. WHATEVER they are "Trying" to do, WHATEVER their "intentions", WHATEVER they are "hoping to accomplish" is totally BESIDE THE POINT AND IRRELEVANT when so many countless thousands of TOTALLY INNOCENT PARTIES are TRASHED in the process!!! Now what in the hell is so difficult to comprehend about that??? That, and ONLY THAT is the MAIN POINT AND FOCUS of my issue and that of many thousands of others as well with what is taking place!!!!! AGAIN, they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater!!!!! Whatever the HELL they are trying to accomplish, has resulted in the removal/ban/deletion of MANY THOUSANDS of decent legit small business owners!!!!

Ever heard of spammers? Google needs to keep adjusting to try to stay one step ahead. I've seen a lot of SPAM in the Google results over the past 18 months, and the adjustments are trying to weed these out.


Other SE's (AGAIN) are IRRELEVANT. Other "marketing techniques" are IRRELEVANT.
They're only irrelevant if ignored. As I said, we don't rely on Google, although our traffic there is up this month and thus our sales are up a little. It's still some of the lowest converting traffic we have, so I'll continue looking at other RELEVANT (much more than Google traffic) marketing techniques.


Now if you, or anyone else doesn't have any information on WHAT TO DO GET BACK IN GOOGLE AFTER BEING REMOVED (which I point out is supposed to be the TOPIC of this entire thread), then your posts are of no help. My "attention" isn't "focused on complaining". My attention (unfortunately) seems to be focused on REPLYING to posts which have NOTHING TO DO with the topic of this thread, and my attention is FOCUSED on what to do to get the many thousands of us removed from G, BACK IN G. THAT is it!
Thank you.

We're focusing on how to get your business back, which is what most people really want. I don't think it matters to most people where the business comes from.

As for how to get back in Google, until this update has completed and people know for sure what caused the sites that got dropped to be dropped, nobody is going to be able to tell you. The SERPs are still extremely volatile. Trying to say "Here's how you get back in" at this point would be very stupid. It may iron out and end up closer to what it was when it's all done. It may end up completely different.

The best way to get into Google, thus the best way to get back in, is to be honest about your site. Avoid any "black" or "grey" techniques, find relevant inbound links, don't overuse keywords, and keep building content. They'll never tell us specific "Don't do this" type things, because they don't want to give spammers a heads up.

Brian.

[jawn_tech]

This is surreal. :)

I made one comment that webmasters shouldn't take it personal, elaborating on a similar point from the original thread, and wow how it gets taken to task.


Citing example after example accomplishes nothing helpful, it only prove things to you which I should not have to do, and again is not the purpose nor intent of this thread.

Nothing helpful? Generally, it's status quo when someone says "xy and z is happening". Not sure what the problem is of naming just one here. I don't know how anyone can possible help or post a solution when each site and scenario would simply have to be taken case by case. If you don't want to post your own site, I respect that. If you've seen "countless" examples, let's have a look at just one for starters. brian.mark above also suggested some great points, which should be taken into consideration, generally speaking. Otherwise, one could also just as easily argue that disgruntled spammers (not that I'm saying you are one, just in general) are taking advantage of this phenomenon to just spout more anti-Google rhetoric. Again, not saying this is what you're doing, I wholeheartedly believe you are sincere.

But I will clarify one last time, my point was regarding anyone blaming Google SERP's for loss of jobs or painting a picture of 'suffering', taking things personal, that Google is 'out to get them', to the extreme that I'm seeing. To read about sites getting shuffled in Google, or disappearing -- good grief that's been happening for ages. Is there something "big" happening now affecting sites that shouldn't be affected? That remains in question and can't be answered without observing which particular sites is it happening to. If someone asks 'why is this happening to me specifically, or happening to ________ (insert domain)'? Don't know until we have a look. Otherwise, the suggestions in jmiller's article suffice for general situations.

[Clint1]

We're focusing on how to get your business back, which is what most people really want. I don't think it matters to most people where the business comes from.

As for how to get back in Google, until this update has completed and people know for sure what caused the sites that got dropped to be dropped, nobody is going to be able to tell you. The SERPs are still extremely volatile. Trying to say "Here's how you get back in" at this point would be very stupid. It may iron out and end up closer to what it was when it's all done. It may end up completely different.

The best way to get into Google, thus the best way to get back in, is to be honest about your site. Avoid any "black" or "grey" techniques, find relevant inbound links, don't overuse keywords, and keep building content. They'll never tell us specific "Don't do this" type things, because they don't want to give spammers a heads up.

Brian.
I can appreciate that, but the point I was trying to stress is that most if not all cases, there is no way of getting back the massive amount of business loss due to G's actions when the overwhelming bulk if your customers happen to come from SE's. In my line of work, people search for my products using an SE. Any other "marketing method" does not work....short of spamming which I will NEVER EVER do.

I, and those of whom I know that have been trashed, (which I have pointed out) WERE using totally legit website methods and WERE "totally honest" with our sites. We have been rewarded by following G's guidelines by being REMOVED. Where as, (as I've stated) those sites that ARE engaging in "cloak & dagger" methods and outright blackhat techniques, are getting REWARDED by G with TOP SERP's in their index! This is the conundrum of total frustration in which we find ourselves.

[scallihan]

My Google traffic has dropped, but I also have quite a few pages in my site that are still ranking very well. I'm just happy this didn't happen just before Christmas -- provides a good amount of lead-time to figure out what's going on and adjust to it.

I've done very well through Google over the last couple of years, and have still done decently well, if not great, since the February update, so really can't complain. As long as I don't drop below a living wage for my efforts, I'll be happy (so I don't start eating into my reserve). My traffic sources are fairly diverse (lots of bookmark traffic, for instance), so I've got a good floor that won't be effected by an algorithm shift in only one search engine, even in Google. I'm starting to look at doing some very selective PPC campaigns to bring in more targeted traffic to my most productive pages.

[DMC_34]

This is a hoot, tragedy, and everything all in one.

SIMPLY PUT:

"A FOOLISH BUSINESS RELY'S ON ORGANIC SE RANKINGS"

BTW:
CPC's are available. No I dont buy into Adwords conspiracy theory or any other Google conspiracy. Google couldn't care less about my site(sandboxed), YOUR SITE, or any site outside of its niche. What can you do? Nothing...get over it because the simple case is it will change just after you lose your sanity. :) Google is a free service for seachers not YOUR business nor mine.


Marketing is focus here, not organic listings.

[activeco]

Marketing is focus here, not organic listings.

Quote of the month.

[iwstats]

There is a certain macho perverse attitude among some members of the Internet marketing world that causes a significant and dangerous reaction: G is good if I'm on top; but G is evil if I get dropped. It may be an adult version of the boys game, "King of the Mountain", where the gang fights for a pile of dirt at a construction site even though no one in the fight really wants the dirt pile and everyone goes home dirty for the effort.

Children play king of the mountain with the stronger players trying to keep the weaker ones from taking possession of the top of the hill. Here in the Internet we are all fighting to be King of the Mountain. How many are playing the game? Millions of people, every web page owner and every webmaster is trying to be on top.

I strongly believe there are a few basic rules for survival in the organic listings of any search engine, and that a top listing and ranking is the result of permanent hard work during months and years. Google is a fully automated search engine that employs robots known as "spiders" to crawl the web and find sites for inclusion in the Google index. This process doesn't involve human editors and I agree with DMC_34, the conspiracy theory is pure imagination, fantasy. G has better things to do than to play King of the Mountain with you.

Is it really the search engines that are after you? Or rather is it the millions of your competitors that are after you? Come on, let's grow up guys. We all want the top spot in the Search Engine King of the Mountain game. Do your homework, build a stronger web page. Fix your ranking leaks, fix your code, get links, get advise from people that have knowledge and experience. Do some testing, get a work plan started. Get some schooling. Get some tools. There is no free lunch here.

It is not by getting angry and complaining that you get to the top spot in King of the Mountain, nor in the SERPS. Its by using good business strategy and common sense.

[isismygirl]

Thanks for a great topic.

I have to agree not to let google make the only search engine pple should focus on.

A great reason to invest time in other search engines is because 80% of your competition is using google (and not the other search engines ;)

[jdoree]

Hi...

Thanks for this useful article. I just got dropped by google today and I'm trying to figure out why. The only one of your suggestions that I thought could possibly apply to my site was the duplicate content.

I had a backup of my site on another server that was accessible to the Google spider. Would that be duplicate content that would be enough to get me dropped?

The only other thing is that I have about half a dozen on topic articles that are republished from other sites, with full permission and links to the providing sites. These are mixed in with another half a dozen completely original articles.

I'm really stumped here, and really desperate. My site has been around for 10 years and does not use any bad tactics.

Also, is it possible that this is just a hiccup and things will return back to normal in a day or two?

I'm hoping I wake up tomorrow and it was all just a very bad dream.

Thanks for any insight.

j

[brian.mark]

A URL would be helpful in trying to diagnose the problem.

Brian.

[jdoree]

In the past I wanted to switch away from the domain I'm using because it is not relevant to my site but the site was doing so well in the search engines that I didn't want to risk such a big change.

The URL is: http://automailer.com/tws/

BTW, the site design is currently not very attractive; I was planning a relaunch with a new design next week! It can be found at http://automailer.com/tws/test/ (front page here only)

Another factor that might come in to play is that I moved the domain to a new server with a different IP about a month ago. I was advised to keep the old server up with the content for a month to cover any indexing lag. Perhaps this looked like dupicate content too? There are other sites (not my sites) on that shared server/same IP that were not dropped so I don't think it's because of a banned IP.

Thanks in advance for any help!

j

[brian.mark]

For starters, I think you need to get some more links. Even MSN only shows 28 (they usually show a lot more than anyone else in my experience.) Yahoo did actually show 598, but a lot of the pages seemed to be 404's now.

You should add a robots.txt file.

You have a few HTML errors. Valid code is a good goal.

You have a lot of JavaScript that could easily be moved down the page or to an external file. Either way, it could help.

Google only shows 55 pages on that domain. Is that about right? If not, you may want to submit an XML Sitemap feed.

Brian.

[jdoree]

Thanks Brian.

When I moved the site to a new server, I got rid of irrelevant pages. Perhaps that is why Yahoo sees the 404s.

I will certainly investigate the robot.txt file.

I usually try to maintain valid HTML; it seemed to me that most of the errors were related to the Adsense code. Regardless, I will go in and clean up.

Thanks for the tip on moving out the Javascript. I'll do so ASAP.

Google is about right for the number of pages. Most of those pages performed very well on Google (top ten for most of my keywords) until yesterday :( Regardless, I generated a sitemap yesterday (at http://www.auditmypc.com/free-sitemap-generator.asp) and submitted it to Google 16 hours ago. They downloaded it 8 hours ago apparently.

How long do you think I should wait before I start to really panic...or should I be already? How long before I should contact Google (not that it will do much good)?

As a side note, there are other sites on the same server and IP as me that have not been dropped by Google so I don't think it is related to a blacklisted IP.

Thanks again. If you think of anything else, please, please let me know.

j

[brian.mark]

Usually when we've dropped, I give it 2 weeks. We normally come back in that time. But I also don't rely on Google for more than about 13% of our traffic. Granted, that's 48% of our search traffic, but not all that much in the overall scheme of things. If you rely on Google, you may be inclined to panic in the first hour. I've heard of rankings coming back after 6 weeks. It just really depends on what you can afford to let go.

One thing you might try is changing your title tags. Try reversing them. Instead of Physical Therapy (Physiotherapy) - Heel Pain, try making it Heel Pain - Physical Therapy (Physiotherapy). That'd be a change that could get Google to think about you again. Changing things up has caused us to climb on Google in the past. Just a thought. I'm assuming that "Heel Pain" is the keyword for that page, so it should probably be first anyway.

The site looks clean. I'd probably just change the title tags a little and work on getting more links if you want to start doing something productive while you wait.

Brian.

[jdoree]

Thanks for the insight.

Just to clarify, when you talked about when you've 'dropped', do you mean dropped right out of the rankings like I have (I've dropped completely off of the radar, not even in the top 10000) or do you mean dropped a few points?

Thanks for the top on changing title tags. I'll give that a go. Since the drop I've submitted a Google sitemap and added a robots.txt file. Hopefully that will help too.

j

[brian.mark]

Thanks for the insight.

Just to clarify, when you talked about when you've 'dropped', do you mean dropped right out of the rankings like I have (I've dropped completely off of the radar, not even in the top 10000) or do you mean dropped a few points?

Thanks for the top on changing title tags. I'll give that a go. Since the drop I've submitted a Google sitemap and added a robots.txt file. Hopefully that will help too.

j

At one point, we dropped out of the top 100 for tool parts, which was all the further I was willing to dig. I get bored easy... ;-)

Let us know if you don't see any changes shortly and what keywords you're targeting and we can see if there are things we can recommend (even besides more and more links) to help your ranking.

Brian.

[jdoree]

Well, it's been a week since my site was dropped from Google. It doesn't seem like I'm actually 'banned' as the site comes up on searches for it's name or exact strings from the site; as well, PR is still 5. However, I am not in the top 10000 for the dozen keywords that I used to be in the top 10 for.

I've cleaned up the code on the site, added a robots.txt file, submitted a sitemap to Google, altered title tags, and so far nothing. Meanwhile, MSN is loving my site and Yahoo! is rather fond of it too. Unfortunately almost 70% of my traffic was from Google prior to a week ago so needless to say, revenue (primarily Adsense income) is waaaaay down.

I'm wondering if/when I should request reinclusion by emailing help@google.com . I've read as many articles as I can find on getting back in Google but they seem a bit scary. For example, one states:

"Remember, you'll be asking for a human reviewer from Google to personally inspect every detail of your site. If they find anything remotely objectionable they won't only reject your request but will also likely remember you for having wasted their time! ...and your chances of ever getting back into Google will be drastically reduced."

Does anyone know if there is a tool out there that can check your site for you to see if it is violating any obvious guidelines? If not, this would be an extremely useful tool. Perhaps there is a service out there for this..?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

j

[brian.mark]

Well, it's been a week since my site was dropped from Google. It doesn't seem like I'm actually 'banned' as the site comes up on searches for it's name or exact strings from the site; as well, PR is still 5. However, I am not in the top 10000 for the dozen keywords that I used to be in the top 10 for.

I've cleaned up the code on the site, added a robots.txt file, submitted a sitemap to Google, altered title tags, and so far nothing. Meanwhile, MSN is loving my site and Yahoo! is rather fond of it too. Unfortunately almost 70% of my traffic was from Google prior to a week ago so needless to say, revenue (primarily Adsense income) is waaaaay down.

I'm wondering if/when I should request reinclusion by emailing help@google.com . I've read as many articles as I can find on getting back in Google but they seem a bit scary. For example, one states:

"Remember, you'll be asking for a human reviewer from Google to personally inspect every detail of your site. If they find anything remotely objectionable they won't only reject your request but will also likely remember you for having wasted their time! ...and your chances of ever getting back into Google will be drastically reduced."

Does anyone know if there is a tool out there that can check your site for you to see if it is violating any obvious guidelines? If not, this would be an extremely useful tool. Perhaps there is a service out there for this..?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

j

You said yourself that that you weren't banned, so a reinclusion request isn't going to help. I'm not in a spot to help find the real problem right now, though. Once I'm back to 100% I can take a look again, unless someone else helpful has already found something for you already.

Brian.

[jdoree]

You're right Brian. I guess I don't need to be reincluded if I'm not banned. However, it seems to me that I have definitely been penalized; less than banned but more than just a regular fluctuation. If that is the case, do you know if a site get a chance to recover from penalization after the next 'update'?

I'll have to take a look around and see if I can find out more what it means to be penalized.

j

[sem-seo-pro]

Hi Clint


If I may I would like to direct peoples' attention, especially the attention of those victimized by G,

UmmmmI hate to say this but you and all the other willingly placed your sites for google to index and display results from.

You willingly optimized pages to have better results from Google.

None of this was done with a gun to your head.

Don't blame google ( a free service ) blame only yourself you wanted to be in the game and just like in football you make a wrong turn and your paralyzed for life!!

But you are no victim

From the original Clint

Peace