Can you still get into the Search Engines for free?

[cjshu]

What will it take to get listed in Google and get some free traffic? I would like to build more sites but not until my first is successfully picked up. 6 months and counting.

[cbp]

To get into search engines, they need to find you by following links to your site. Submitting is largely a waste of time.

I can find 3 links to your site - two are from forums that have a PR=0 and the other is on a page with 100's of other links, so does not pass a lot of value to you - you need more.

CBP

[mediahound]

You wrote, and I

I would like to build more sites but not until my first is successfully picked up.

Why wait?
I suggest creating more sites, and linking them together as a start. Don't wait to see the first one appear. It will happen, just hang in there. Meanwhile, get a head start on your other sites. Put up quality content that your visitors would enjoy reading. The more info you have on your sites, the more likely the search engines are to include your site in their results.
If you are interested in exchanging links I have sites that would work well to exchange on. Contact me for more info.
I just checked your site, and it does have a google page rank of 2. So, they know about it. Update your site and add more content that you feel will be valuable for your target audience, and reap the rewards.
Meanwhile, contact me to trade links. That would surely help.
Speak soon,
Jarred

[benji5376]

I'm hearing more & more that in order to get a 10 listing on the major search engines you have to pay....Is that the case? if so does anyone now of some good marketing companies that handle SEO ......& Is there are how-to books, seminars, web sites on how to submit your site and its doorways in the top 10 for free... I would love to hear about them

Thanks

[Duncan Pollock]

MediaHound: M'mm, are you sure about that? Unless I miss my guess, Google frowns -- and I personally think they should -- on the idea of having multiple sites that are linked to each other. Isn't it the sort of Black Hat SEO that falls into the unfair manipulation category?
The better approach, surely, is to design ONE site with numerous pages, each linking back to the homepage but designed to focus on a different keyword or group of keywords?
If a company has half a dozen totally unrelated products or services, a site devoted to each one makes some sense perhaps, but even then I can't help wondering if it wouldn't still be better to have the one parent homepage with links to and from the subpages and, of course, appropriately chosen keywords for each of them.
After all, I don't think General Motors has separate sites for Chev, Olds, Buick, Pontiac, etc, do they? But I'm damn sure that a search for any one of these "brands" will end up at (and with a link to) the main GM corporate page.
Respectfully submitted.

Duncan

[ronniethedodger]

Hmmm...MediaHound, I just checked and I do not see anything on my Googlebar for his site. Going to Google also does not reveal any pages that have been indexed there yet.

Although I can do a text search at Google for his domain name and results do show. So Google should be around to index his site shortly. This text search revealed the links that cbp was referring to.

cbp eluded to the quality of the links also. I would like to add to that after looking at your links pages and offer a little more advice on that.

I noticed that you are starting to fall in with some bad company. By bad company I mean the types of sites that you are hooking up with such as the Casinos, and the Link Pool schemers...the latter of which you have several so far.

Links are good to have...but take your time and get some good quality links. One at a time, day after day.

The link sites you have listed promise you a lot of traffic, but they will do nothing but pull you down in the long run with a lot of garbage links that can be constrewed as spamming. Especially given the latest algo changes at Google, they definitely have no value at all. The only person that has something to gain from these link sites, are the link sites themselves....envision an upside down pyramid with the link site itself at the point.

I have a nutritional supplement site just like you. And just like you it is 6 months old (July 2003 - I checked you out..hehehehe) And, just like you I fell into those link sites...but quickly learned what will eventually happen to me. I now do all my link exchanges one site at a time...and with purpose.

You will not need these link sites if you build your pages up properly and gain PR. Trust me on this, they will start coming to you and asking for exchanges. As soon as your head pokes itself up at them, they will be beating a path to your door. That is what is happening to me.

[cbp]

I'm hearing more & more that in order to get a 10 listing on the major search engines you have to pay

Where did you hear that?

Google have made it explicit on numerous occasions that in its search index paid listings do not influence it. Getting a top 10 ranking is relatively easy and free, provided its an uncompetitive keyword(s).

The integrity of search results are affected if you pay the search engine for a top 10 (some SE's do have 'sponsored listings' above the 'organic' or 'free' listings).

If by paid, you mean pay an SEO to get good ranking on competitive terms - you may have a case there, but not good SEO will guarantee a top 10.


CBP

[cbp]

Should have also said, that if you are looking for an SEO, here is Google's advice:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html

CBP

[marknc]

Check this site out for some basic guidelines on how best to submit your site to search engines - www.selfpromotion.com/. Stick to the majors, don't hastle with hundreds of minors or lists, those days are all but gone and can be detrimental. No need to pay either.

[awall19]

Sometimes it is worth it to spend a little bit to get a link from goguides. Skaffe is providing free submissions 4 hours out of the day. Gimpsy is pretty quick.

Builing a ton of low quality sites is bad. You should be able to use valuable feedback from the first site or two before you really try to crank them out.

With billions of alternate pages in search engine indexes quality is far more important than quanity.

[awall19]

As search engines get more advanced link analysis is becoming more important. I have had top 5 rankings on google for semi competitive two word terms with no link popularity in the past, but local link structure will only grow in importance over time.

I used to frown upon buying links, but I no longer do. If other people do, I can too. Its just like buying an ad in the newspaper...

get links from a few of the directories. u can also search for directories using

my keyword + add url
my keyword + directory
my keyword + submit
my synonym + add url
... the possibilies are endless

[minstrel]

I have to agree with cbp here. Maybe if you're in a raging hurry with a new site, spending money the site hasn't actually earned yet to buy ads may make sense, but it isn't necessary and may not even help much to get you into the top 10 on Google or other major search engines, if you can be a little patient; work on design, content, and links to your site; and plan for the long run instead of the quick buck.

In addition to the Google link cbp gave you, have a look at these two:

Webmaster Guidelines
(http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html)
Google Information for Webmasters (http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html)

- Offer a site map to your users with links that point to the important parts of your site. If the site map is larger than 100 or so links, you may want to break the site map into separate pages.
- Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it.
- Try to use text instead of images to display important names, content, or links. The Google crawler doesn't recognize text contained in images.
- Make sure that your TITLE and ALT tags are descriptive and accurate.
- Keep the links on a given page to a reasonable number (fewer than 100).
- Make use of the robots.txt file on your web server. This file tells crawlers which directories can or cannot be crawled. Make sure it's current for your site so that you don't accidentally block the Googlebot crawler. Visit http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html for a FAQ answering questions regarding robots and how to control them when they visit your site.
- Make pages for users, not for search engines. Don't deceive your users, or present different content to search engines than you display to users.
- Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings. A good rule of thumb is whether you'd feel comfortable explaining what you've done to a website that competes with you. Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"
- Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.
- Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.
- Avoid hidden text or hidden links.
- Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
- Don't send automated queries to Google.
- Don't load pages with irrelevant words.
- Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
- Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.

[cjshu]

The reason Im was waiting to create more sites is because I was hoping to use the experience of my first site to build on.

[sonnie]

What will it take to get listed in Google and get some free traffic? I would like to build more sites but not until my first is successfully picked up. 6 months and counting.

I guess this could be posted on any of several threads but I thought maybe this one would be appropriate.

I received the following email a couple of days ago. Here is just a part (origination, site location, etc. left out for privacy).


Happy Holidays!

I'm new to this forum and just read your post. I'm a new business owner and need to get my site at the top of Google. Just want everyone else wants too, I know :-)
My site was designed by a third party and I'm not too much of a techie, so I'm curious if you can recommend any helpful tips? Should I pay an SEO or have the web design company do something on the site to get it ranked. We rent gsm and satellite phones mostly for international travel. There are many companies who are in this business, so I know getting to the top on the search engines won't be easy.

My response (recommendations have been removed for privacy):

On a commercial site, which I work on, I have managed to do quite well in
most cases. Search on Google for the term White Embroidery Machine and the
customer's product page scores within the top ten results on quite a few of
the top search engines (Google, MSN, HotBot, WiseNut, Yahoo, AOL, Alexa,
etc) Customer's site is www.sewandvacdirect.com. Now try the same search for
the term White Model 3300. Same site page but most of the time ranked in the
top 5. Target your Keyword Phrases for each page. But remember, rankings can
change daily. SEO is a never ending affair.

SEO is time consuming, and many choose to ignore it and just try to "buy"
their way in (pay-per-click), etc. But by optimizing in every way, it is
possible to get good results in position rankings.

By the way, I'm sure a few of the other members received a similar email from this person.

Thanks