Web masters united. Let's beat Google!

[wavedancing]

Years ago at the beginning, google gain customers by fast index and good search results. After they launched adwords and went to public, things changed.
They created the stupid sandbox as they think they are smart. They try to rank old informational sites whose contents might haven't been updated in years at the top. They try to hold commercial sites for months even years to force them buy some adwords. They create some rules ask our web masters to obey while at the same time, they break the rules themselves without been punished.

Now, web masters, let's prove they are over smart, as they are. Google people, please don't forget how you gain the customers. You gain customers by mouth to mouth. How about people say "Google is not good" mounth to mouth now? Why we should say that? Because it is the fact. Now MSN search results is better than Google. And Yahoo also catch up. Start telling everybody around you that google is not the best any more now and we will see soon Google will not be so proud that they think the web masters are their slaves.

Web masters, if you don't want to be slaves of Google any more, just tell everybody around you the truth.

[adbart]

Lol. The blood is boiling in someone....

[Peter (IMC)]

ow MSN search results is better than Google.
Oh you must be upset about not getting the rankings you desire so much.

MSN better than Google? I did a search the other day for a product and Google came up with an Amazon product page in the top 10. Was it a good result? Well they sold the product that I was looking for so I consider it a good result.

Now MSN also figured that Amazon had the correct product, but instead decided to show the home page of Amazon, that was of great help... NOT.

Webmasters,... don't get frustrated with Google,.. Just accept the way they are, optimize normally like you always did, and work on related back links with good anchor texts. And make those links related,.. also you should focus on getting related back links.

And last but most certainly not least, focus on getting related back links because link hungry Google loves links and if they are related, they may actually have a positive effect on your website's rankings.

Oh before I forget,.. the back links need to be related! And related does not mean: oh my site is about horses so I get a link from a site about cows because they both live on a farm. It doesn't work like that!!! (If your site is about farms, links from horse sites and cow sites may be considered related)

:D

[toddieg]

funny thread.. i don't think people are going to stop using google though. (at least not anytime soon)

[Lori99]

Interesting enough, as I discuss the Google Sandbox with co-workers they all begin to start downtalking Google. I myself still use Google, but am using more of MSN and more of Yahoo than I have in the past. I'll relay the information of current events and let people make their own decisions.

[wednesday]

"Let's beat google".
The most intriguing part in this game is to beat them at their own coliseum. Marry to the princes and cash the jackpot, but this is from another fairy-tale. ;)

[Peter (IMC)]

Interesting enough, as I discuss the Google Sandbox with co-workers they all begin to start downtalking Google. I myself still use Google, but am using more of MSN and more of Yahoo than I have in the past. I'll relay the information of current events and let people make their own decisions.
Obviously, people that like getting high rankings and can't get them in Google while they fall out of the sky in MSN and Yahoo, are going to like Google less. :D

Here´s an explanation of the sandbox: http://www.seo-works.com/2005/04/05/information-retrieval-based-on-historical-data/

[KeithO]

Don't forget their addition of targeted links in pages without site owners consent.

[yowow]

i don't even care about google anymore except reading this forum here ;) i try everything as suggested in this forum and still google doesn't put me in top so i stop following google now. i am top rank @ both yahoo & msn so i spend my resources & time towards both.
i thought a entry to dmoz category would bump me but for some reason google hasn't update their directory from last 50 days. so i have decided to forget google altogether.
i would agree somewhat with the original poster than google is giving results of pages etc which aren't useful or hasn't been updated a while so they can earn more money via adworld.

[brian.mark]

The old adage here about if you can't beat 'em, join 'em just came to mind. We weren't ranking real well at one point for a few of our key phrases, so I removed some optimization and we came up in rankings. Seemed like a join 'em type situation.

In any case, I still use Google a lot. If they're filtering new sites and I'm shopping, I consider that good. Older sites are a little less likely to be scammers in my opinion. However, if I'm looking for opinions or news, that's a bad thing. It really depends on what you're looking for.

Personally, when I'm shopping I like to use become.com to find products. They have some cool stuff they're doing with some of the data. If they'd just show some prices now... :-)

I think if anyone can beat the G monsters, it'll be someone taking over a niche like this. Get enough really good at niches and combine their results for an overall search would be awesome. I don't think anyone can beat them at overall search at this point by just writing a generic search engine - it'll take way too long to show people why they should switch. Google is a habit that's hard to break.

Brian.

[adbart]

so i have decided to forget google altogether.
I would say that was a bit foolish.

Pretty much every site on the internet gets their highest % of traffic from Google.

By not even considering it, you might be missing out.

Having said that, if you're ranking well in MSN and Yahoo, you're probably doing OK in Google as well (give or take).

[wavedancing]

ow MSN search results is better than Google.
Oh you must be upset about not getting the rankings you desire so much.

MSN better than Google? I did a search the other day for a product and Google came up with an Amazon product page in the top 10. Was it a good result? Well they sold the product that I was looking for so I consider it a good result.

Now MSN also figured that Amazon had the correct product, but instead decided to show the home page of Amazon, that was of great help... NOT.

Webmasters,... don't get frustrated with Google,.. Just accept the way they are, optimize normally like you always did, and work on related back links with good anchor texts. And make those links related,.. also you should focus on getting related back links.

And last but most certainly not least, focus on getting related back links because link hungry Google loves links and if they are related, they may actually have a positive effect on your website's rankings.

Oh before I forget,.. the back links need to be related! And related does not mean: oh my site is about horses so I get a link from a site about cows because they both live on a farm. It doesn't work like that!!! (If your site is about farms, links from horse sites and cow sites may be considered related)

:D

We are not talking about how to rank well in Google here. However actually, my sites are ranking well on Google. I have some sites ranked well in all search engines. But that's not the point. The point is if we keep treating Google like the god, Google will treat us as slaves, as they have already begun doing that.

At this point, no single person can beat Google. That why we need people united! If everybody do something together, it will make a difference.

[Peter (IMC)]

But that's not the point. The point is if we keep treating Google like the god, Google will treat us as slaves, as they have already begun doing that.

At this point, no single person can beat Google. That why we need people united! If everybody do something together, it will make a difference.

You have got to be kidding. Who's treating Google like a god??? Are you making offerings to Google? I just optimize for all engines and with that get traffic from all of them, and indeed 70% from Google. But that´s their market share (at least in the english language)

Who wants to beat Google??? Why are you at war with them? There is no need to fight or even beat Google. Use them to your advantage, they won't mind.

[wavedancing]

Who wants to beat Google??? Why are you at war with them? There is no need to fight or even beat Google. Use them to your advantage, they won't mind.

They don't mind? Why they do the sandbox thing? Why they delay the PR update? If you can manage to rank on top for anything you want, you will not need to buy adwords. If you can not, you might need to buy some. That's why they should mind and why they do mind. Remember google make it's living on adwords.

We need to wake up now!

[DreamingEagle]

We need to wake up now!

Yes, let's unite and block the evil God from crawling our sites with our robots.txt files! Our revenues will decline by 50% but we will have proven to all that we have the mettle to fight the wind.

[Peter (IMC)]

I guess Yahoo and MSN who used to take for ever to rank high in now are Saints because those are easy to rank high in now.

[DreamingEagle]

I guess Yahoo and MSN who used to take for ever to rank high in now are Saints because those are easy to rank high in now.

Yes, too bad they are such a distant second and third.

[adbart]

Are you making offerings to Google?
Hell yeah! :p

[Peter (IMC)]

Then that´s your problem,. :)

[adbart]

Haha.


Who wants to beat Google??? Why are you at war with them? There is no need to fight or even beat Google. Use them to your advantage, they won't mind.

[janeth]

I rank good in Google but some of the things there doing is just wrong.

They have shown us with AutoLink that they do not care about our property. Google uses this tool to change the look of our website and send visitors to other sites from our websites!

And now there using FireFox to make fake clicks in our stats. We use those stats to understand our visitors, but Google does not care about that or the extra bandwidth used to preload pages that no one will ever see. That in turn cost us money.

So people can be upset at Google and it have nothing to do with their ranking.

[wavedancing]

Yes, let's unite and block the evil God from crawling our sites with our robots.txt files! Our revenues will decline by 50% but we will have proven to all that we have the mettle to fight the wind.

I don't suggestion this action though. All we need to do is tell everybody around us that Google's ranking is not the best any more, as well as the evil things Google is doing.

[Peter (IMC)]

So people can be upset at Google and it have nothing to do with their ranking.Solution: Robots.txt

[Jade456]

Reading this thread its obvious we need a grammar check. If you don't like google, don't use it. Its a free service. You don't pay for it, ergo you can't really complain about it. And if you have high ranking in it you wouldn't be complaining. If you think MSN and Yahoo are better, what planet are you on? MSN's results are all over the place. Sites that use black hat techniques are still doing well on MSN because they haven't filtered them yet. Hidden text/urls, doorway pages, etc, Yahoo and MSN love'm. MSN has made HUGE strides but they aren't there yet. Yes they rank pages quicker....but that just means that you can lose your good ranking just as fast. Any Yahoo? Well ask anyone that has been dropped by them for no reason what they think.

[randy776]

Having said that, if you're ranking well in MSN and Yahoo, you're probably doing OK in Google as well (give or take).

I definitely don't agree here. I have actually found the opposite to be true. Of 30+ sites I own, only one of them is well represented in Google, this one site gets over 200,000 clicks from searches there a month. This site hardly ever shows up in the SERP from Yahoo.

The other sites are all well represented in Yahoo each getting as many 3 results in the top 10 for some of my keywords. These sites are all in Google, all have PR of 4 or 5. They get virtually no results in the top 1000 for those same keywords.

As for MSN - I was overlooked entirely. So to heck with them! LOL!

[wavedancing]

If you don't like google, don't use it. Its a free service. You don't pay for it, ergo you can't really complain about it.

I would not agree. Just because you don't pay for it, doesn't mean it haven't take advantage of you. There's no free lunch. Search engines rely on people who search to make their living.


And if you have high ranking in it you wouldn't be complaining.

I am actually ranked well on Google. But we are not talking about if or how we are ranked well here.


If you think MSN and Yahoo are better, what planet are you on? MSN's results are all over the place. Sites that use black hat techniques are still doing well on MSN because they haven't filtered them yet. Hidden text/urls, doorway pages, etc, Yahoo and MSN love'm. MSN has made HUGE strides but they aren't there yet. Yes they rank pages quicker....but that just means that you can lose your good ranking just as fast. Any Yahoo? Well ask anyone that has been dropped by them for no reason what they think.

There are a lot of black hat seo pages ranked well on Google. Did you even see the overture search result ranked well because they are full of keywords RELAVENT? I've seen many machine generated pages ranked in top 10 in Google.

[janeth]

Reading this thread its obvious we need a grammar check.

lol, I think everyone understands what the other person is trying to say. Some of us are from other countries.



If you don't like google, don't use it. Its a free service. You don't pay for it, ergo you can't really complain about it.

I think we have a right to say what we think rather we pay for something or not. As a matter of fact I can say I do not like some of the things they do and still use them if I want.


And if you have high ranking in it you wouldn't be complaining.

We are not talking about ranking but I can promise you I rank very well in Google, MSN and Yahoo.


If you think MSN and Yahoo are better, what planet are you on?

Who gives the better results would be in the eye of the person looking. Because they may disagree with you does not make them from another planet.

[crankydave]

We need to wake up now!

Yes, let's unite and block the evil God from crawling our sites with our robots.txt files! Our revenues will decline by 50% but we will have proven to all that we have the mettle to fight the wind.

ROFL! Yes! Let us unite and fight the wind! Together we can break the wind!

Dave

[adbart]

Whoever said anything about wind? :p

[janeth]

Their saying, trying to fight Google would be about like fighting the wind. (-:

[Gary Golden]

You can put down GOOGLE but with us they beat Yahoo 2 to 1 and MSN 6 to 1. So without GOOGLE you won't have much business.

MSN is a good engine but they are slow to index so there results are dated. Quite honestly referrals from them are limited even with good rankings.

Grant it if we were sandboxed I might be singing a different tune, but we are not! We rank well on hundreds of keywords and growing each month.

We do not use pay per clicks, We do a good amount of offline advertising though I spend a lot of time optimizing my site, adjusting keywords, etc.. It seem to be working as long as my links and saturation continue to increase, which they have so far.

[adbart]

Their saying, trying to fight Google would be about like fighting the wind. (-:
Yes. I was joking.

[jackson992]

Actually MSN indexes changes rather quickly. They have new pages in their index within a week unlike Google. Google also doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason as to how they rank a page. MSN at least relys on things we can control.


You can put down GOOGLE but with us they beat Yahoo 2 to 1 and MSN 6 to 1. So without GOOGLE you won't have much business.

MSN is a good engine but they are slow to index so there results are dated. Quite honestly referrals from them are limited even with good rankings.

Grant it if we were sandboxed I might be singing a different tune, but we are not! We rank well on hundreds of keywords and growing each month.

We do not use pay per clicks, We do a good amount of offline advertising though I spend a lot of time optimizing my site, adjusting keywords, etc.. It seem to be working as long as my links and saturation continue to increase, which they have so far.

[Peter (IMC)]

They have new pages in their index within a week unlike Google. Google also doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason as to how they rank a page. MSN at least relys on things we can control.

Yeah,. just like Google used to be 2 years ago.

Let's face it,.. Google moved forward and has a much better search engine. MSN and Yahoo are just lousy copies of the Google engine of 2 years ago.

It´s really funny actually to see how they (MSN,YAHOO) try to keep up with Google. Every time they think they are there, Google just leaps forward.

Maybe one day a new search engine will be born that can really compete with Google.

[janeth]

Yeah,. just like Google used to be 2 years ago.

Let's face it,.. Google moved forward and has a much better search engine. MSN and Yahoo are just lousy copies of the Google engine of 2 years ago.

It´s really funny actually to see how they (MSN,YAHOO) try to keep up with Google. Every time they think they are there, Google just leaps forward.

Maybe one day a new search engine will be born that can really compete with Google.

I have seen good results from all three. I would not say one is any better then the others as far as the results there returning.

[Brian-Bear]

What we all need to remember is that we all made Google what they are today, don't forget this fact, and if we all decide to blacklist them, take the finacial penalities etc google will not be number 1 any longer. As far as search is concerned do we really need video, maps etc there are niche websites do this already.

[Peter (IMC)]

What we all need to remember is that we all made Google what they are today, don't forget this fact, and if we all decide to blacklist them, take the finacial penalities etc google will not be number 1 any longer. On what cloud are you living? :D

[Brian-Bear]

Not the same cloud as you thats for sure, if you read my post carefully you would note i said if we are prepared to take the finacial penalties by not using google. What gets built by public opinion can sure as heck get taken down when the public opinion shifts the other way to a rival enterprise
Everyone is entitled to their view, you would be very silly not to optimize pages for google but there are alternatives and some day google will lose number 1 spot.

[Peter (IMC)]

Then we look at it in the same way,. ;)

[jackson992]

Never will a search engine be #1 to me that doesn't rely on logical things to rank. Right now as it is with Google, I can do crappy with a site, movie it to a new server and suddenly see great rankings.

[megahertz28]

To address the initial post, I have been telling people Google sucks for about 6 months now.
As for the people that speculate that because I am saying this that I'm not ranking well with them, which isn't the case either. It's just my honest opinion. For those that think that this industry isn't a volatile & Google will reign supreme over us lowly designers/sites forever, makes me laugh. Much of what Google has done (and are doing) reminds me of IBM's attitude with hardware in the 90's. (I believe they even had a much larger market share in hardware than Google has now in search.) But, I'll ask you when is the last time you bought an IBM brand anything for your PC??
Basically, my feelings ~ I am willing to work with anyone who is willing to work with me. Google doesn't seem to fit into this category though. If they continue down the road they are on...mark my words, SOMEDAY sooner than later, they will not be #1. And whether you want to accept it or not, the people that USE the internet have control of it, not the other way around.

[Peter (IMC)]

And whether you want to accept it or not, the people that USE the internet have control of it, not the other way around.

Yeah that is true,. but if you think that you could actually plan to get everybody together to trash a company by not using it anymore, then you´re totally wrong. A market works as a whole but no individual has any control over it.

You can say Google sucks, but it´s just plain not true. You do a search in Google, 99 out of 100 or 1000 times you find what you're looking for. So just because they changed the way they do things doesn't make them worse than before.

This whole problem is about being able to predict your rankings in Google. That isn't as simple as it used to be. But indeed that is now very easy in MSN and Yahoo. If you ask me, that is why so many people now don't like Google anymore. Regardless of having high rankings, you just can't predict it anymore, and that hurts.

[DMC_34]

Google is to the internet what microsoft is to operating systems and software. When an organization becomes powerful they are more subject to criticism. Microsoft has competition in Linux, but currently Google doesnt have the same equivilent. Once MSN shakes off the newbies, I would think they will take a good shot at Google. They already have my vote, even though I rank better on Google. Why? I just like to root for the underdogs, which is MSN. Forget Yahoo, even though I am #1 on Y!, I believe they focus too much on stuff such as Music Matchbox etc. I am not a Bill Gates fan but increasing becoming rubbed the wrong way by Google. Alta Vista was king once and look at them now. It is a cycle and you just have to go with the king at the moment. Google will fall one day, just how the cycle goes.

[megahertz28]

The whole problem with me is that I feel like Googles sandbox is just an attempt to force new online businesses into their paid advertising program rather than NATURAL placement. We all know what we get when we attempt similar types of tricks. Besides my personal feelings about that, I don't believe the search results are all that great anymore either. As far as -

Yeah that is true,. but if you think that you could actually plan to get everybody together to trash a company by not using it anymore, then you´re totally wrong.
I don't think that? But I do believe in the power of word of mouth, afterall it's how they got big so fast.

[DreamingEagle]

Reading this thread its obvious we need a grammar check.

lol, I think everyone understands what the other person is trying to say. Some of us are from other countries.

It amuses me greatly when people who only speak one language comment on the little mistakes of someone who speaks two or more...:)

[Peter (IMC)]

:D :D