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View Full Version : Things learned in the last 4 months in the life of a new SEO



KeithO
04-12-2005, 11:00 AM
I was introduced to the world of SEO end of December 04 when hired for my 1st true technology job (can't say as I'd count phone sales for Dell). After bookmarking and spending hundreds of hours on the company dime researching and hording all the information I could gather about effective SEO techniques, I still realize that tricks and shenanigans gain nothing. I want to at least get some validation or clarification of things I suspect to be tried and true to benefit my clients.

Currently, as far as SEO, my company focuses on keyword selection and biweekly reporting of those rankings. In my short tenure, I've noticed this seems to be important for clients, but not in the grand scheme of things. We use WPG 2 and it works alright. I'm trying to coax them to move to WebCEO after having tried it and being impressed with its clearer (and more accurate) reporting. But this really doesn't benefit the clients. Its the same, to me, as getting awarded a medal at an award ceremony; it validates the effort but doesn't really help any particular client. Now seeing as how it is extremely difficult to get many of my clients to follow the recommendations I provide (many have rare updates to their content, image heavy pages with little text, and poor copywriting), I constantly fear losing some here and there with not enough new clients joining up.

I've read about the Florida update (seeing as how I live smack dab in the crosshairs of 3 of the 4 hurricanes that came through and enjoyed about 15 days total with no electricity), but haven't really gathered much on what was involved here. Could I get a cliffs notes edition please?

When the alleged Google patent became public last week, I went through the 1st 'what is claimed' section and made many, many notes. I've read many, many ascertations and analysis of the document, some I agree with and some I do not. I actually went through and created an outline (ala middle school, 5 paragraph essay style) to help my coworkers skim the essentials rather than getting bored to tears (as I did, as least in part, at times). My core breakdown was:

-Google appears to be utilizing their toolbar to influence the rankings through cookies, bookmarks, history, cache, and temp files.
-The age of a document is an important factor. Google sandboxes brand new sites, reducing their positioning greatly.
-Frequent updates are important to maintaining a high ranking. This is why blogs rank so high in SERP’s
-Must be attractive to a user to click through and stay.
-The domain should be on a reputable server with a respectable name
-Steady growth of the site and maintaining the rate of expansion
-Obtaining quality, stable inbound links from high ranking websites. Never use a link farm
-Google’s huge datacenters track and analyze traffic, changes, and history of pages.

If this is a clear window into the mud that is Google's corporate transparency, then what the hell? There seems to be so much that is missed or taken advantage of. 1st off, from a paranoia standpoint, the fact that they imply they are utilizing my cookies, cache, temp files, google toolbar, bookmarks, favorites, and anything else they desire to determine weather a site is worth its weight in salt or not really disturbs me. I clear my computers regularly with ad-aware and spybot, cleanse my system of cache, cookies, and temp files weekly, and don't necessarily bookmark sites I visit often. So we have also got the fear that Google may be scanning your email to determine ad relevancy. These tricks scare the crap out of me. But in the world of SEO, how are we supposed to also conveinience our clients that Google also considers CTR of adSense to be worthwhile component of their ranking algo thus they should put them on their site? Do we want an internet dominated by 'ads by goooooooooooogle' text based advertising and having that help influence if a site is authoritative or not? Do we want Google to be the supreme authority for who we can buy products from?[/end soapbox]

IBL's seems important as well. I believe in submitting to the directories and having them list the site. The way the major players are going with their inclusion of ads into SERPs, I may start going to human controlled directories to find what I need. As I can tell by the sticky, there are hundreds of directories as well. In my reporting cycles, I was told I should submit when WPG recommends it. I've stopped doing that. I agree with some that it’s a waste of time. I see it as the equivilant of watching the monkey sniffing his finger video ad nausem; looks fun, seems like a good idea, but does nothing. So is focusing on submitting clients sites to relevant directories a good idea rather than cold emailing campaigns trying to get reciprocal links?

META tags, clients still ask for them. I put them in as I think it does help. I see them as a mini-site map for the single document. Gives the spider something to look for on the document. Am I accurate?

The hardest part, I believe, is keyword research and analysis. So many of my clients have such poor content that I've got better chances of being recognized as King of Antarctica than getting them ranked on the 1st 5 SERPs for any of the engines. I've utilized Overture's tool and it’s nice (when it works). Is there something about keyword phrase selection I am not getting? I feel as though all the clients I have want all the results with none of the effort (like Anna Nicole's "marriage" to the old oil guy) and that’s going to be the downfall. Is client stubbornness to listen to us a catch-22 or rising threat to the SEO market?

I think I covered everything and not bored you to death. Thanks in advance.

cbp
04-12-2005, 05:16 PM
I would disagree with:

- Google appears to be utilizing their toolbar to influence the rankings through cookies, bookmarks, history, cache, and temp files.
-Frequent updates are important to maintaining a high ranking.

CBP

cspelts
04-12-2005, 06:24 PM
We use WPG 2 and it works alright.
Have you read what Google says about WebPosition Gold?
http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/guidelines.html

Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.
I used WebPosition Gold years ago, and found it helpful at that time, but once I figured out some of the basics of search engine optimization, found I didn’t really need the program.

The multiple-page reports it generates seem helpful and useful – but I find my clients are just as happy with a one-page report I put together myself, and it actually takes less time to do so.

adbart
04-12-2005, 06:29 PM
META tags, clients still ask for them. I put them in as I think it does help. I see them as a mini-site map for the single document. Gives the spider something to look for on the document. Am I accurate?
Apparently, Google and MSN Search are no longer paying any attention to the META keyword tag.

Of course, you should put in a META description, and I would put in the keywords tag as well just in case anyway, even if it is just for the other SE's out there.

Does anyone else know anything about this?

KeithO
04-13-2005, 09:12 AM
I would disagree with:

- Google appears to be utilizing their toolbar to influence the rankings through cookies, bookmarks, history, cache, and temp files.
-Frequent updates are important to maintaining a high ranking.

CBP
My reasoning with the toolbar is they discuss user behavior with a site. I personally am unaware of any other tactic for tracking that outside of creating the rumored gBrowser and/or the GDS.




We use WPG 2 and it works alright.
Have you read what Google says about WebPosition Gold?
http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/guidelines.html

Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google.
I used WebPosition Gold years ago, and found it helpful at that time, but once I figured out some of the basics of search engine optimization, found I didn’t really need the program.

The multiple-page reports it generates seem helpful and useful – but I find my clients are just as happy with a one-page report I put together myself, and it actually takes less time to do so.
I read Google's recommendations week 1 in this job and brought it up w/ management. They're reply was that we aren't using it everyday, only every other week which they were convinced was why Google called them out specifically. I am trying to get them to switch to WebCEO for reporting purposes since it does use G's API's.
What do you put in your report? I also mentioned refreshing the reports and have been told to take it slow with things. I don't know what the guy before me was doing, but alot of it has already been shown by me to be a waste of time. I cut his 2 days of work to just over a half day. In our reports, we have recommendations (that aren't even followed by clients) and then the report of rankings. Depending on the number of keywords, it fluctuates from 5 pages to 20 pages. But only 1 page is really worth a crap.




META tags, clients still ask for them. I put them in as I think it does help. I see them as a mini-site map for the single document. Gives the spider something to look for on the document. Am I accurate?
Apparently, Google and MSN Search are no longer paying any attention to the META keyword tag.

Of course, you should put in a META description, and I would put in the keywords tag as well just in case anyway, even if it is just for the other SE's out there.

Does anyone else know anything about this?
It may be going the way of submissiosn where its not even acknowledged. With Google's increasing influence, I wonder if they will push to get it depreciated with the next version.

adbart
04-13-2005, 10:17 AM
Interesting. So you think that Google is still using META keyword tags for ranking purposes at the moment?

KeithO
04-13-2005, 10:30 AM
Interesting. So you think that Google is still using META keyword tags for ranking purposes at the moment?
not directly for ranking but sort of as a localized site map for the document giving the spider an idea of the keywords and keyphrases to look for in the document.

Duncan Pollock
04-14-2005, 10:50 PM
I think you've undoubtedly got hold of the key points of effective SEO, including an awareness of what doesn't work and what is hardly, if at all, worth the bother.
There is one point that I'm not sure you've realized, however, and that's your need -- and the importance of finding out how -- to end up One Step Ahead of the Competition.
To be on the first page of the SERPS (and anything else is going to give you far less clicks and a much lower ROI), you have to analyse the sites that are already there and then improve upon it.
For instance, what is the overall webpage design? What is the content focus? What keywords? What meta description? How well are H1 tags used? How are pages linked? How many pages are there, in fact? What IBLs and OBLs are included? How well is a Unique Selling Proposition put forward and made readily apparent? How do visitors contact the company -- and how easy is it for them to do so?
Etc., etc., ad nauseum.
In a nutshell, a successful website succeeds because it's more designed to succeed than any of its competitors!

Duncan

KeithO
04-15-2005, 09:36 AM
I think you've undoubtedly got hold of the key points of effective SEO, including an awareness of what doesn't work and what is hardly, if at all, worth the bother.
There is one point that I'm not sure you've realized, however, and that's your need -- and the importance of finding out how -- to end up One Step Ahead of the Competition.
To be on the first page of the SERPS (and anything else is going to give you far less clicks and a much lower ROI), you have to analyse the sites that are already there and then improve upon it.
For instance, what is the overall webpage design? What is the content focus? What keywords? What meta description? How well are H1 tags used? How are pages linked? How many pages are there, in fact? What IBLs and OBLs are included? How well is a Unique Selling Proposition put forward and made readily apparent? How do visitors contact the company -- and how easy is it for them to do so?
Etc., etc., ad nauseum.
In a nutshell, a successful website succeeds because it's more designed to succeed than any of its competitors!

Duncan
Thanks for the feedback. When I started here, I was hired to take over the SEO duties. The person before me seemed to have a good idea of things before as well. Problem was the design of pages before though. So many of the sites have lackluster index content and suffer as a result. I'm working with management to reorganize the SEO process here to include updates and true optimization as opposed to the simple reporting process we use now. I feel its greatly insufficent and devoiding our clients of higher rankings which will keep the residual income flowing. Problem still begins with the clients not wanting to change their sites to be truly optimized. Sites I've worked on since starting have had more input from me to make sure they are search engine friendly.

voasi
04-15-2005, 07:05 PM
Here are a couple of great pieces that break down the Google patent from some major players in SEO:

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/2132
http://www.socengine.com/seo/guide/google-historical-data-patent.html

Good stuff!

KeithO
04-18-2005, 09:42 AM
Thanks. I had seen them before and thought I had them bookmarked. Very good information. Since I have some down time, I'll be able to parse them. We'll see how my assumptions play against theirs.

incrediblehelp
04-18-2005, 01:17 PM
Google appears to be utilizing their toolbar to influence the rankings through cookies, bookmarks, history, cache, and temp files.

They CAN do this is, if you have installed the Google Desktop feature.