Displaying feedback quotes of the competition

[Jamie]

Can one legally take selective excerpts in quotes from forums regarding ones competition and use them on your own website as examples of others feedback of the competition?

[Narasinha]

Can one legally take selective excerpts in quotes from forums regarding ones competition and use them on your own website as examples of others feedback of the competition?

Well, I don't know about the legality of actually using someone else's posted opinions, but I would say that it would be in very poor taste. As a potential customer I would want to know what you can do for me, not how poorly someone else thinks of your competition.

There is always the possibility of libel or slander when talking about one's competition. Tread very carefully, lest you step into a courtroom.

[masterpeace]

Well I don't know what the "law" on that is, however I to say it would undermine the purpose & spirit if the forum IMHO.

Web Pro World is here as a place to share, learn & interact. People come here with a wide range of skills & abilities. Some are advanced programmers & designers, others are just starting out an come here to learn.

WPW is meant to be a place where people feel free to ask those "silly" questions, and to be able to get honest constructive reviews of their work from peers, with the hope of improving it.

If members are trusting enough to submit their work here for review and willing to seek costructive criticism, other membrs should respect that trust.

The forum is about support each other in the industry, not tearing each other down. If people start using others posts as a commercial tool, the openness & honesty shown here would disappear, the posts would dry up, and we would all lose a valuable resource.

I don't think that would help anyone!

[matauri]

Well I don't know what the "law" on that is, however I to say it would undermine the purpose & spirit if the forum IMHO....

Couldn't have said it better myself. Ditto to all of the above.

Suggestion: Better to ask members who review your work if they mind you using their review as a testimonial for your work.


Cindy

[grease]

This would be highly unprofessional and will only reflect poorly on you.

[vwebworld]

Hmm, that's a great question!
RE: using posts.

The best thing would be to first ask the poster
if you can quote him/her. I would think most would
be agreable to it if you have a link to their website
and or the original forum thread.

RE: using posts about your competition...
Well, the "negative" approach may not go over well
(of course everyone is assuming you're using it in a
negative way). If it's a positive post... what about
that? Here again, you might want to ask your
competition?

The one problem with using forum posts is the
time sensitive nature of them. Posts about issues
or problems might not be valid over time - because
the (competitor's) site may be "corrected" for them.

Overall, it's good to learn from "mistakes" and feedback
if it's regarding your site or your competitors'
web sites.


~Roland

[SyrenSong]

While it is not specifically stated in WebProWorld's Rules (as is also the case in many forums), any posts made in a forum are the property of the author of the statement(s).

Therefore, legally, you need to get (probably written to protect yourself) permission from the original author before using any statements made in any forum.

Otherwise, you open yourself to lawsuit for unauthorized use of another person's copyrighted statements.

[Jamie]

[quote="SyrenSong"]legally, you need to get (probably written to protect yourself) permission from the original author before using any statements made in any forum.quote]

From my readings I do not belive this is correct, one can take a small portion of any copywrite material as a "quote" and use it in their own document. This is done all the time.

Thanks for all the input.
Jamie

[JayDrake]

While it is not specifically stated in WebProWorld's Rules (as is also the case in many forums), any posts made in a forum are the property of the author of the statement(s).

I think this is inaccurate, honestly. Unless you specifically protect a statement you make in a forum, it is essentially public domain just as if you were to publish a paper and leave it on a bulletin board. I doubt there would be any legal recourse available in such a situation. Now if the forum rules explicitely state as much that would be entirely different, giving grounds to show that what you said wasn't meant to be taken for other's use.

[SyrenSong]

While it may be possible to use someone's words as a quote in a non-profit situation, I believe what Jamie intends is to use these quotes in a for-profit situation.

If this is the case (such as using quotes taken from forums to denegrate his competition so he can get more clients/sales/etc.), then he could potentially be sued here in the US for using quotes from anyone without their permission.

Is a forum public domain when there's no copyright statement in the forum's rules? I honestly don't know, so I did a little research.

Anyone contemplating using quotes from forums and forum members should probably read the following discussion on GigaLaw.com, Internet Forums and Copyright Laws (http://www.gigalaw.com/archives/0304/gigalaw-discuss-0304-00070.html), and most particularly this post (http://www.gigalaw.com/archives/0304/gigalaw-discuss-0304-00076.html).

Also this article on GigaLaw: What is "Fair Use" in Copyright Law? (http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2000-all/gall-2000-12-all.html). In particular, please note "Fair Use Factor Three: Amount Used" which states in part:

The Supreme Court has ruled that it was not so much the amount taken, as whether the portion taken constituted the "heart" of the piece.

And one more GigaLaw.com discussion: Public forums & copyright law (http://www.gigalaw.com/archives/0309/gigalaw-discuss-0309-00036.html).

And so that everything doesn't come from GigaLaw, here's a portion of an article from the Internet Law and Policy Forum: "E. Material That Infringes Intellectual Property Rights." (http://www.ilpf.org/groups/content/ip.htm)

An article I found at Pierce Law's IPMall, quoting a professor Tom Field from Franklin Pierce Law Center in Concord, N.H., USA here (http://www.ipmall.info/news_activities/field_990812.asp), states in the 6th paragraph:

Field says a copyright is enacted automatically when a work has been fixed in a tangible medium such as an Internet server.

Any way you look at it, however, the fact that this discussion is posted here could easily lead a court to believe that Jamie (or any other poster to this topic) had reason to believe they might be breaking the law by using someone else's published text.

Remember, too, that copyright laws vary from one country to another. That means that some of what I've posted above may not be applicable if you happen to take a quote from someone who may be located outside the U.S.

That being the case, Jamie, I'd consult an attorney if I were you before using quotes from anyone on posted this or any other forum.

It's the only SAFE way to ensure that you aren't breaking the law!


BTW, I'm not a lawyer, but I have worked as a legal secretary for about 8 years, so I do have some personal legal experience. I am also married to an attorney, so we have some interesting dinner discussions sometimes. ;)

[JayDrake]

Good reply! I guess I stand corrected, though I don't know how it would go in court. (Documented cases would be great to see!)

Thanks for the information!

[Jamie]

That being the case, Jamie, I'd consult an attorney if I were you before using quotes from anyone on posted this or any other forum.

Well that's what I am trying to avoid :)

The articles were informative and I recall reading of the 10 copy write myths. However, they did not bring me any closer to an answer. I all ready take short quotes from my competition and display them on my website without using the companies name in order to elaborate on the inaccuracy of what they say. As an example of what I do, the competition may say. “The beaches of Santa Marta have white sands” and I will quote this and say, “This is not true there are no beaches in Santa Marta with white sand.” I do a lot of this and I not see how this could be illegal. If it were I could easily rephrase this sentence to make the same point, for example, The competition says, “The sands of Santa Marta are white.”
What I am now contemplating is taking quotes from forums where the poster tells about his negative experience with the competition using the name of the competition. Now it was brought up that a negative approach is not a proper method of selling and that one should extol how we are better not how the other company is worse. I do both. I am in an industry that is has many dishonest operations. I distinguish my self with better service but that can only be realized by using my service. For those contemplating using my service I must demonstrate the difference in a very competitive industry between them and me by highlighting what they say versus what I consider to be the truth and I would like to show what others have experienced using their service versus the testimonials I receive for using my services.

I guess one answer could be to get the writer to give me his permission to use his quote. So if I get the writers permission and he says, “I used “this company” and this is the results I got…” Would this be ok?
Having the company name carries greater impact, but again I could always be creative and find a way to make a similar point without the company name but I prefer not to.

[SyrenSong]

The problem with using the company's name, no matter who makes the negative statement about the company, is that you could immediately open yourself up to a lawsuit for slander.

You would then be placed in the position of proving that whatever you stated on your website (or any print media) was absolutely true.

If you are quoting people who make negative statements about a company, how do you know it isn't just "sour grapes", so to speak? They may have misunderstood the information provided by your competition. Or they may have had a single uniquely bad experience, which no one else has ever had with that company before or since.

By providing the name of the person who made the original statement, all you've done is to spread the liability. You haven't done anything to keep yourself out of hot water.

If you decide to take the chance of being sued for slander, and go ahead and post negative comments about your competition as quotes from anywhere, from everything I've read, make sure you get permission in writing from the poster.

Additionally, I would make sure I got the poster's real name and full contact info (address and phone number, maybe even email addy) and post at least the person's name and state/province/country on your website. You'll then have the information to give to your attorney if/when you are sued.

Personally, I wouldn't post anything that might be considered slanderous on a website, or anywhere else for that matter, regarding my competitors. Most especially if I wanted to use their names.

It's just looking for trouble. And I can find lots of trouble that won't potentially cost me a small fortune in legal fees, court costs and damages awarded by a jury in a court of law.

But that's just my personal opinion. ;)

Seriously, Jamie.

You're asking non-lawyers very important legal questions. Questions that could have a very serious impact on your business and your pocketbook!

Which would you prefer?

- To spend $100+/- on a lawyer now to make sure you don't do something that could get you sued?

- Or spend $10,000+ on a future lawsuit because you were trying to save a few bucks today?

I know what I'd choose! ;)

[Jamie]

I know what I'd choose! ;)
Thanks, yes you made some good conclusions. I can make my point with out listing names.
Thanks
Jamie

[matauri]

Thanks, yes you made some good conclusions. I can make my point with out listing names.

I hope so, because I wouldn't be impressed if my name & business was associated with anything that I didnt given permission for.


Word of advice though....
Even be careful just using a posters words. I know a lot of posters here copy & paste from other authors.



Cindy

[Narasinha]

Lots of great information on copyrights in this thread. For Jamie's situation I think something like this might be in order:

"Some of our competitors advertise that they blah blah blah... In our experience, this method has been show to be innaccurate. We blah blah blah..."

[SyrenSong]

Good suggestion, Narasinha.

The phrasing allows negative comments to be made without pointing fingers at any one specific competitor.

If anyone complains, it just says that they're either paranoid or guilty. lol!

[minstrel]

Actually, if you take Narasinha's suggestion one step further, to this:

"Some of our competitors advertise that they blah blah blah... In our opinion, this method is innaccurate (ineffective, whatever). We blah blah blah..."

Now, all you're doing is pointing to an opinion your customers might see and stating your opinion to the contrary - no one is being slandered/libeled or otherwise defamed and it seems unlikely to me that anyone could come after you for damages for simply stating that you have a differing opinion.

Great suggestion, Narasinha...