Should the Web Design industry be regulated?

[Paulo]

Be interested to see what everybody thinks about this, so feel free to voice your opinions.

For arguements sake let's just call it the Web Design industry in the broad sense that it covers all the disciplines.

There's a lot of factors involved including qualification, experience, ability, talent, attitude etc. so let's discuss them all.

Anyone can set-up and say they're a web design company. But would you let just anyone fix your car, build your house or look after your kids?

[cyanide]

well this is an interesting thought Paulo.

on one hand:
free enterprise, right ?

on the other hand:

Anyone can set-up and say they're a web design company. But would you let just anyone fix your car, build your house or look after your kids?
I used to be a chef. I was highly skilled, worked hard, long hours and was lucky enough to earn a top salary(chefs aren't paid that well!)

However there is nothing stopping anyone from calling themselves a chef. Same goes for catering. It really took off in the early 90's and catering companies were coming out of the woodwork.

in the end i think I may lean towards no.

[Paulo]

Nice call, cyanide. So, was that change in the catering industry influential in turning you to the web?

I agree with the freedom the 'net allows and love to see the good, the bad & the ugly in websites.

But I do have a concern for the clients. OK, so some will know good from bad and make the 'right' choice. Many have wised-up and know what to look for. What standards should the others look for?

[cyanide]

hey Paulo,

Nice call, cyanide. So, was that change in the catering industry influential in turning you to the web?
well, I would say one of many reasons.
The main reason for me leaving cheffing, is I was over-worked, tired, stressed and just plain worn down. I needed a change.

The irony ?... That's kinda how I feel now.
I left cheffing because I wanted a semi-normal life, without the long hours. But now, I'm actually working more!

Strange. But I love what I do. I guess I'm a workaholic. But what really drives me is change. There's plenty of that in this industry. I get bored easy and can't handle repitition.


But I do have a concern for the clients.
Me too.
A couple months ago, I had fax come in asking to quote on optimizing their meta tags for search engines. Hard to do that when I don't know the URL. So I called them, had a look at the site. This site had numerous problems. Done in frames, had very little text on the pages and was sitting on a subdomain of the developer. This developer is a huge company. Their forte is online directory, not web design. But this client had signed an agreement for a package to get top listing and have a web site done.

Sure I could have told them I would throw in a bunch of meta tags and charge $300, but opted to tell them the truth and also offer to do their site. No response yet. I think I probably confused them some more.

[Paulo]

How strange is that? You mirror my sentiments entirely on the irony, the hard work, getting bored easy, the honesty et. al. Spooky.

It's that attittude that earns good reputation in this industry and that's one of the most valuable assets in any web company.

[carju1]

How do you regulate it?

The problem is its a world business where location doesn't matter. You use a car mechanic as an an example, thats fairly easy to regulate. If the USA says to fix a car you mus thave qualification X or else it can be enforced. If you live in the USA you have no choice but to use someone within say 100 miles to fix a problem with your car, but not so on the web. Yes you could fix your own car or you could build your own website, but if the USA says you need qualification X to build a web site or else what happens.

First thing is those americans with X charge more (hey there qualified) so US buisnesses use a cheaper equally as good webdesinger in another country. The US gov can't stop this (what they going to do say US businesses must use US designers - illegal and unenforcible) so US designers have to come down in price to compete and lots go out of business as they have the added expense of getting qualification X or they can't practice. Several years down the line there are no US desingers left as its no longer a profitable business.

Yes some industry standards may be nice so if you have one you could say "I have X therefore I am good and will provide a certain level of service" but regulation will never work for this.

Regards
Julian

[Paulo]

Thanks Julian.

So maybe 'regulation' is a misnomer.

Standards seems to be the issue and there's nothing better than good reputation, experience, referral and a decent portfolio or ability to demonstrate capabilites.

From my personal experience I've seen companies sell the design concept based on the work of previous employees. The client signs up and gets an inexperienced designer who then produces a (comparatively) substandard piece of work. Effectively that's deception, but how does one protect the client in this instance?

There's a lot of bull in this industry so what's the first port of call for clients wishing to check a company's credentials for instance?

[SyrenSong]

The only real way to know whether you're hiring a designer who can produce is to check references or to get referrals. At the very least, take a look at the websites themselves.

Sure, you can look at the website designs in someone's portfolio, but designers can lie. And some give class projects without identifying them as such.

There's one person who posted in the Freelancer forum here at WPW as an experienced designer. I took a look at their portfolio. I was curious about a few designs he had, so I clicked on the images for links to the sites. Nothing. So I did a quick Google on the names....

The site designs on his website were bogus. Yes, they seemed good. But the actual websites were of an entirely different design than the ones on the kid's website. In some cases, the kid's designs were an improvement, but that's not the point, now is it?

I give him credit for creativity, but not so much for honesty. NOT the way I think a business should be handled.

While I don't think the industry should be regulated, I wish there was a way to get a little "truth in advertising"! Or at least a good way to warn prospective business owners to check things out a little before hiring anyone based on solely on their website's credentials.

Syren

[Paulo]

While I don't think the industry should be regulated, I wish there was a way to get a little "truth in advertising"! Or at least a good way to warn prospective business owners to check things out a little before hiring anyone based on solely on their website's credentials.

Beautifully Illustrated :)

How about setting up as a Design P.I. company with the strapline "Purging the Web of Deceipt" ? LOL

BTW I haven't voted yet ;)

[cyanide]

How strange is that? You mirror my sentiments entirely on the irony, the hard work, getting bored easy, the honesty et. al. Spooky.
spooky indeed. however, I cannot see myself any other way !!


It's that attittude that earns good reputation in this industry and that's one of the most valuable assets in any web company.
absolutely.
and I believe even more important in an industry with fierce competition such as this.

[sd2001]

So why not get together with other users on here and set something up?

Anthony
SD2001

[Paulo]

So why not get together with other users on here and set something up?

Interesting point, Anthony.

What would you do and where would you start...?

There exist a number of bodies that don't govern or regulate but rather attempt to promote good practice in the web industry. I do wander as to the (world) public's awareness to their existence, their credibility and their level of acceptable standards...

If, for instance, you state your area of expertise is HTML, then how does the client know that they're getting genuine expertise in HTML and not some bloated code clumsily churned out of a WYSIWYG editor?

Let's put it this way - a hotel is a hotel, but you expect a better meal and accomodation from the 5 star hotel than from the 'roach motel'. It's not always the case but this sort of classification is an internationally recognised indicator.

In the web industry how does the client trust that they'll be getting a gourmet meal and a four poster bed, rather than a Pot Noodle and a lumpy mattress of dubious pedigree? LOL

What do you think...?

[sd2001]

Paulo,

I would set a minimum standard of XHTML 1.0 with CSS, which has to be nested correctly and has all the obsolete commands deleted.

This can then be validated, thus allowing random site validations after registration or checks from complaints.

For anyone disregarding the code of conduct, a black list could be displayed on the site where potential clients could check before they contact any members.

Thats a solid starting point, any further additions for (HTML) section?

Regards
Anthony

[Paulo]

Anthony,

Invocation of W3C standards... a very solid starting point, as you point out. How much of the web would be rendered obsolete upon strict implementation of XHTML 1.0 and, what CSS1 or 2? Personally I'd have to either retreat to the safety of graphics & photography or step-up to the 'next' level of coding standards. So, in itself, it's a major envelope-pushing concept where web industry people either sink or swim.

Your black list is a thought-provoking option. Based upon the number of people that would be eliminated from the industry by the standardisation you suggest, wouldn't it be more feasible to list those that subscribe to the notion rather than those don't?

As for displaying this list, isn't it still an issue of awareness amongst clients (and 'designers')? If the W3C is 'the daddy' of all web organisations then why is its influence not felt in all corners? Should the W3C be a more dominant body?

Looking forward to responses... ;)

[jessa_lee]

I do not have anything eloquent to say, just that I agree with SyrenSong. Anyone who is going to spend any amount of money for their business should ALWAYS do a good amount of research and reference checking before even a penny is given.

Almost every one of my current clients knows me personally or received a word-of-mouth recommendation from a trusted aquaintance. I offer my clients my different web-packages, but also suggest a few other options that include businesses other than my own, and let them decide.

I can do understand however, that there are so many out there who are not honest or dependable. But then, any businessman (or woman) who chooses to spend their money foolishly, without researching it thoroughly first, to one degree or another deserves whatever comes to them. It's the truth of the world we live in. I've learned this first hand.

Be wise or be eliminated.

[zbatia]

Well, I did not read the answers, but I voted against, and I found that I am in a majority.
The regulations lead to some sort of certification.
We have enough "paper" certifications in the computer networking industry. I would hate to see those CIWs again. It was proven many times that certifications and similar regulations just feed those hungry for our money companies (see my 2002 article here: http://www.rtek2000.com/Good/Why_we_have_to_fight_with_hypes.pdf)

I saw many CIW (certified webmasters) who don't understand why they should use cell padding parameter in the table to format the text properly. The web design is a combination of knowledge, hardworking, research, and even art. I've trained numerous web designers, and many of them acknowledged that they don't have the "feel" of how the front page should look even having knowledge and some experience in coding, standards, and marketing.

My vote is ENOUGH REGULATIONS and BUREAUCRACY. The simple web portfolio would serve the purpose. Check the portfolio and references, talk to the designer personally, and make your decision. That’s simple enough without regulations.

http://www.rtek2000.com
http://www.rtek2000.com/ouruseful.html

[Reece]

Who decides who qualifies? Who decides what qualifies?

And we all know that no matter what qualifications are set, there will be ..... Well, to use the example of automotive industry.. Shade tree mechanics....

Yes I am sure MANY would frown and point to me as an example of "unqualified" web designer.

But I can not COUNT the number of times I have helped a so called "certified web master" or certified web designer" fix or do something.....
Most emails begin "Hey I can't seem to get....." and when I ask for a link to see the code, discover they are some web designer who has a degree or certificate...

Or worse... some technician at a comp repair place that has decided it can do websites too... and is learning as they go.

I encourage people to check Google, DMOZ,and Alexa and compare the results for the web designers they are considering. I offer definitions and live links to site I have done or currently am working on.

I encourage they look for favicons and 404s..... Fluff? maybe... but I believe that how you develop and promote your own website is the best indicator of how you MAY perform for a client... My opinion? That is the ultimate skills based test for web designers....

[USALUG]

No. Some common sense and investigation on the consumers part would eliminate most issues anyway. You can't hold everyones hand, and the consumers will eventually become more internet savy than they already are. Regualtions probably wouldn't stop the bad people anyway, just hinder those starting out. As with almost every other situation, it's buyer beware.......and do your homework :)

[vwebworld]

No no no...

Regulation would be only burden the designer(s),
and add cost for the buyer(s).

If the buyer does his/her homework, there should not be a lot of problems. Just like any service
business, if the provider does a lousy job word
will get around.


~Roland

[Diana]

I don't believe the industry should be regulated. I'm one of those that's "unqualified" by official sources, but qualified by actual experience and skill. I might not be cutting edge, but I get the job done competently and (usually) on schedule.

I do believe however there should be more accountability within the field for those that would by all general standards not be known as designers, but scammers. The fly-by-night organizations, the take your money and run, the "don't do what they said they would" crowd.

I'm currently working with several clients who were burned (badly!) by a "designer". The work quality is poor, the price charged is obscene (by my standards and for the quality delivered), domains registered in designers name and not relinquished, etc. Not to mention no written contracts!

Granted a lot of the above situation(s) could have been solved by the client educating themselves prior to starting their projects, getting contracts to protect themselves, registering their own domains, etc, but let's face it not everyone does that. Perhaps some form of a well publicized national blacklist for clients to put their experience with designers (pos & negative) is in order. That would hopefully encourage people to educate themselves and research the designer they want to hire before shelling out their hard earned money!

I've had client's who had purchased sites from others, who subsequently disappeared with their money, others who lost everything related to their site (images, domains, money) because of dishonest and unethical business practices. This could have been solved by them doing their research, talking to refferals, etc, had they known to do so.

Hard (and expensive) lessons to learn, but you can bet they won't make the same mistakes twice...

Diana

[rer3]

As a relative novice to this profession, maybe my vote should not carry the weight as others do. My expirience in other feilds tell me that having a basic set of standards that any layperson can verify is important to giving credibility to an industry. We all feel better going to a health care worker with MD after his name or the lawyer with JD. Think of the bad rap that the auto repair industry has due to the fact that the ASE certification has yet to be a mandated level of expertise. CIW is a start in the right direction but the industry has to really push to get the bad eggs out and realize that as the web grows, this is becoming a neccessity

[firesidebks]

I think we are regulated enough in everything we do everytime we turn around...the implication is that the consumer hasn't the commen sense of a potato. If you want someone educated in the field with college credentials, you ask for them. If you want someone with real life experience and references, you ask for them. Web design is like any other service you would purchase...the consumers are smart enough to know that you have to shop around to get what is best suited to their needs. Why on earth would we need the government to stick their fingers in? ok...guess I'll get off the soap box...

[Sirrom]

Big Business, Federal, State and Local Government including Educational institutes should follow strict web design regulations.

Have you ever surfed the internet with a blind or other disabled user? You will never understand why that having regulations would be important until you do.

Do not ignore accessibility standards. Eventually designers will have to follow the same rules for accessibility that Architects and Builders follow for construction.

Here are some good links explaining what standards should be followed and enforced:

http://www.lighthouse.org/color_contrast.htm

http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/

http://www.cmac.state.ct.us/access/tutorials/certification.htm

http://www.cast.org

http://aware.hwg.org/

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/abdesign.html

A Couple Testing Tools,
http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/index.jsp
http://www.usablenet.com/

http://webxact.watchfire.com/


I do believe that Personal sites should be exempt from regulations but developers should still be aware of proper design techniques.

[Moondancer]

The regulations lead to some sort of certification.
We have enough "paper" certifications in the computer networking industry. I would hate to see those CIWs again. It was proven many times that certifications and similar regulations just feed those hungry for our money companies (see my 2002 article here: http://www.rtek2000.com/Good/Why_we_have_to_fight_with_hypes.pdf)

I saw many CIW (certified webmasters) who don't understand why they should use cell padding parameter in the table to format the text properly. The web design is a combination of knowledge, hardworking, research, and even art. I've trained numerous web designers, and many of them acknowledged that they don't have the "feel" of how the front page should look even having knowledge and some experience in coding, standards, and marketing.

My vote is ENOUGH REGULATIONS and BUREAUCRACY. The simple web portfolio would serve the purpose. Check the portfolio and references, talk to the designer personally, and make your decision. That’s simple enough without regulations.



Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned car mechanics, babysitters, and similar examples... As the above quote illustrates.. certifications do not a web designer/developer make.. Same thing with a lot of professions and not just in the IT sector... For instance, I was in a graduate program to become a counselor.. 15 quarter hours (less than a semester) from graduation, I quit.. I'm not a counselor in my heart.. I could fake it but I'd rather see people get quality care regardless of the goods or services being rendered...

Regulations would oust people like me.. learning what I can when I can right here on the net.. I could probably make it through certification but my goal is more to be the best I can be, not have a piece of paper to hang on the wall.

For one, I'm really tired of all the hype.. I've seen some of the work of certified webmasters.. I think I can do a better job and I think I still have more to learn than I can list here. I don't consider myself a webmaster... yet....

I do agree with honesty in advertising and making claims but there's no way to regulate that because there are just too many ways to cheat.

[twopooches]

With regulations will come a certain loss of individuality & creativity.
Researching any product or service before buying is common sense. Most people looking for a developer ask a lot of questions and shop around.
I feel most developers are helpful and conscientious. I think there is a general code of ethics within the industry that is outstanding.
Bottom line - regulations would cause a dominoe effect throughout the small business community. Do we want an internet of corporations & bureaucracy? Or do we want to keep it diverse and accessible to all.
Of course this is just my opinion... :)

[JayDrake]

First off, web design should not be thought of as one regulated and/or certified entity. Rather, it is a collection of skills of which various individuals have practiced to varying extents which include, but are not limited to:

Programming
Database Management
HTML/XHTML/CSS
Graphic Design
Layout Design
Server Administration

Each of these are skills for which college level courses and professional guidelines are available. A combination of these and other skills could well be the basis of a good degree program which could be used as a basic measure of an individuals abilities.

As for who would decide what program is better, I would suggest that this work just like any other degree program. Each school that chooses to offer such a program can do so. Over time, the quality of work and the expertise of students from one school or another will surpass that of others and that school will gain prestige as such, much like prestigious law schools, art schools or technical schools.

Does this mean that only people who have a degree from Jay's University would be professional web designers? Surely not. Nor does it mean that a web designer would need master all of the skills such a course load would include in order to be valuable to a given company in need of a professional web designer. What it would mean is that certification from a renowned source would be valuable where most current certifications are worth less than the paper they are printed on.

[pywrit]

Think of the bad rap that the auto repair industry has due to the fact that the ASE certification has yet to be a mandated level of expertise.

Unfortunately, the ASE, just like the various web design "certifications" one can get, only proves the person understands the theory, not that they can actually perform the work adequately. I know plenty of ASE techs I would never take my car to, and I know plenty of web designers who do not have any certifications at all who are far better, much more meticulous designers than many of the "certified" designers I've met. Like most here, I have to say: Let the portfolio and references speak for themselves. And no amount of knowledge certification will ever judge just how scrupulous the designer is in the first place.

[luvdavy]

I have never taken the first college course to learn to do websites. I've been doing them for 4 years and have enough experience now in html that I could fly past any recent college grad, I think. But I do not use dhtml or style sheets or any of the fancy stuff. I've also trained myself in SEO in the past 4 months, and I've found that almost all of that "fancy stuff" will hurt the site in the search engines. I took over a $5000 website with about 50 pages and re-designed every single page in straight html. I got rid of the colf fusion and used javascript or forms for everything they used the CF for. There is no difference in the functionality of the website now from then, either. But where they were NOWHERE in Google before, they are now in the top 10 of about 30 of their most important keywords.

I may not be able to do flash, cold fusion, CSS, or any of that stuff, but if a website isn't on the front page of Google and its affiliates, it's virtually worthless to a business.

So in my opinion, the question isn't whether a designer should be regulated as to education, but whether they know enough about SEO to design a site from start to finish. The site I took over was a nightmare from that standpoint as well as html errors all over the place. So much for the professionals....If a designer is going to do nothing more than artistically create a site, then they need to make that completely clear right up front and probably should be working for a company that has the proper personnel to do the entire job.
There is alot more to being a webmaster than creating art.

JMO.

Jan

[ojo4max]

I would always hire someone with experience over someone with a degree in any field. I have been designing websites for the last 10 years and last year I decided to take a course in Dreamweaver to see where I stood and quickly realised that I knew more than the teacher (and she had qualifications). I guess I made my point on this issue.

[SteveAZ]

I am not a web designer or programmer in any sense. I am just a humble owner of a small website. All I know is that I am against the regulation of who should be allowed to be in business. If there was regulations on webdesign, ect. then what would be regulated next? Site ownership? Who knows. There are a few things I do know and they echo some of the previous replies. To be a responsible consumer, no matter what the trade, you have to check the references of the business you are looking at. The history of a business tells how good they are. You can also check with the BBB. Also, if a company gives you a type of promise that you will be satisfied that is a good thing too. To return to a common reference in this thread, the car mechanic, you don't have to be ASE certified to be good at what you do.

Steve

[joliettech]

Talk about opening a can of worms. That's all regulation would be. As far as it being, THE LAW. Screw that, the government is already too big and wastes way too much money (and this is just the American government). And how will they regulate this?

The way I see it, if web designers want to produce quality websites they will use whatever tools available to insure quality work (w3c validation) without any government involvement.

Getting back to the auto repair comparison, I bet everyone of us has a story about a friend who has been screwed by some auto repair business. Not just stories about the repair garage on the corner, but dealership repair shops. There are people being screwed all the time by these guys.

The responsibility lies on the consumer, do your homework people. The internet business is regulated by the client. Any web designer producing poor quality work will sooner later go out of business (in a perfect world). And believe it or not there are people out there who actually think that poor quality work is just f’in’ fantastic. You can’t regulate taste, good or bad.

[brockelman]

This is a very interesting topic. And while I'm not a web designer, I have been a graphic artist and copywriter for many years. [Yes, I know that anyone can say that.] And like web design, in graphics, portfolios can be extremely deceiving. Or, worse, outright lies.

The problem compounds itself as in both industries the client may not know... in many cases... doesn't know what to ask. References are only as good as the source.

I don't agree with regulation one iota. However, some standardization may be long over due. As a member of the Graphic Artists Guild (AFL-CIO local 3030), I have access to standard documents approved by (and law-proven) a union.

I can feel the hairs on the back of your neck going crazy. Heavens, not a union! Stay with me for just a second. ;)

How many web designers have had a dispute with a client over charges, who supplies what, dates and times, ownership, and on and on?

How many web designers who are self-employeed have access to affordable health, dental, and optical insurance?

I believe that having access to a standard set of contracts that, again, have the backing of big guns would be of great benefit. Graphic Artists Guild provides the language, but doesn't infringe at all on anyone's pricing, scheduling, or production work.

Further, the Guild which is under the union control of UAW offers a mediation service when a dispute between provider and client. That service is usually not needed when one has a solid set of contracts and the knowledge of how to present the deal to the client from the very beginning.

I believe that some of this standardization is over-due in the web development arena. And so are some benefits available from having a union behind your work... though they are only behind you when you fully disclose to the client. As so many have said, Honesty is the key. Customer service is the key. Professionalism is the key.

Well, as this is my first post to this site... be kind ;) but be honest in your responses.

Stephen B.
www.brockelman.com
www.city-photos.com

[kiumars]

Hi everybody,

I am 100% against regulation. There is no degree for web design which can last more than six month. By the time you get a degree, technology improves 3 times faster and you should keep running like crazy to catch up with the latest. I was multimedia assistance at Royal Academy of Arts for 5 years, and whether you believe me or not, even teachers were confused how to deal with students and how to make regulations. A year after I left, that department closed for good. However, I believe in basic understanding of design. Any degree in arts, architecture, multimedia coordinator etc. helps a lot.
The only problem with web design today is a kind of confused culture, or no culture at all. That is also another reason that you can not have a proper academy dedicated for web design. One of these days I am going to post a funny article with the subject “how do we rate a website?” Promise me to have a look on that and be funny in response as much as you want. Sometimes we learn a lot by laughing. Smile uncovers the truth.

Thank you all,
Kiumars
www.web2.dk

[tviman]

(The more of this I read the more I think that somebody got under bid on a job....)

The need for any governing body, or other regulatory system for web designers is ridiculous! A web site designer won't last long if he can't do the job or if the job turns south.

There are web DESIGNERS and then there are web PROGRAMMERS. Rarely have I seen both in one person, and I've seen 100's of cases where the two aren't even in the same shop! I am a programmer - and I do it very well. I can also do the designing, but it takes me a lot longer to get the job done. The disciplines for each are vastly different and take different mind sets. I've been doing this since there was an internet and I still ask questions. (Besides, a lot of the blame must be placed on the various browsers - none of them react the same way to a specific set of instructions.)

And then there's this:
"How much of the web would be rendered obsolete upon strict implementation of XHTML 1.0 and, what CSS1 or 2?"

Of the major browsers, Netscape (not including NS4+) adheres to W3C standards stricter than any other browser - but it doesn't follow all of them. Microsoft's Internet Explorer (any version) is the worst. And since it's the predominent browser, 75% of internet users would be out in the cold.

And this"
"If the W3C is 'the daddy' of all web organisations then why is its influence not felt in all corners? Should the W3C be a more dominant body?"

The W3C is nothing more than an organization that develops standards - and in this context, standards for web pages. The W3C is not, and should not be, a governing body - and it doesn't want to be. (This woould imply that the internet is "owned" by somebody.) There is no rule or law that requires web browsers to comply with any kind of standards. Standards take root as a matter of evolution - anybody remember when the C programming language first started? There were so many versions of "C", and none of them were fully compliant with the standards of the day. But, as time passed, most came to follow an agreed upon standard. Those that didn't are no longer around. It just takes time.

And a BLACK LIST? You must be joking!

Nope, you can no more regulate web developers than you can regulate the man-in-the-moon. Leave well enough alone and it will work itself out.

[TrafficProducer]

One problem with regulation is standardisation. This causes two sub problems.

a) All websites will begin to look and function the same. Just as real life shopping centres/malls have become homogenised so will websites.

b) Standard will inevitably slow development and progress as developers try to stay within a dated standard. Would you like to be using a “standard” computer with 640K RAM?

[garydahl]

No! No! No!

Why in the world do we need more government intrusion in our lives? Regulations would only create a barrier for the new designers & developers coming up.

Companies and web developers who have blind or disabled customers already have a market-based incentive to provide solutions and alternative methods of communication. They don't need ham-handed government bureauocrats blustering in and mandating "solutions".

Let's just grow up and leave our fellow web professionals alone, OK?

[GooMoo]

I'm in a similar boat luvdavy. The only computer class I've ever taken was typing in highschool, and I've been doing web design for 6 years now.

I feel this subject can only apply to coding standards. Photoshop, Flash, color schemes are discretionary. We take our cars to certified mechanics because they are nuts and bolts, functional. We decide (for those of us who can afford to) on the color of our car because of it's form. If I really wanted my car to stand out of the crowd, I would take it to a custom shop, while they do have the certification to work on the nuts and bolts, it's their portfolio of beautiful cars that makes me choose them over someone else.

To continue the analogy, most of us buy our cars because of their function. Does it have enough room for the kids and the dog, does it have air bags, does it go 0-60 in a blistering 4 seconds. This easily applies to coding and hosting practices. New cars have thousands of inspections by certified agents before they're allowed on the road. We are also taking peoples business lives into consideration when we make websites. I would like to know that someone is certified to work the nuts and bolts of my website before I even consider their portfolio.

XHTML is definitely a good place to start, I've been forcing myself to integrate it into my coding standards. The real thing keeping our coding standards low as a group is browsers. If IE wasn't backwards compatible with previous versions of HTML, thousands of websites would get wiped out. I see that as a good thing for us professionals, more work for us! If IE dropped a bomb like that we'd be up to our elbows in new clients. On the downside, this decreases our flexibility. I force myself to do it but some people aren't even aware that their page may not display correctly in Netscape, and that yes Netscape is still widely used. Anyway if such standards were enforced by the browsers, we would probably start to see more and more sloppy flash sites and eventually have this discussion again about flash standards.

I think there is something to be said still about free certification, such as BrainBench.com. I know we're all scraping to get by and companies aren't so inclined to pay for certification nowadays. Practically all web site consumers have no idea that there are such things as web design certifications. I'm not about to put any tacky certification logo on the index of my website, but there should be a presence as to say "I am a certified webmaster, I can meet ALL your needs." but I would certainly include it somewhere in the website/proposal. How we raise certification awareness besides putting these silly logos all over our websites, I don't know.

Heck I don't know how to wrap this up but I know I've babbled enough by now. You can certainly regulate function, but you can not, by any means, regulate form.

[fastedge]

I've been in the industry for over five years. Some would say that's a lifetime in the business. I think it's just enough to know what I can and can't do for the client. Recently my full time employer has sent me to train for my MCSE. For those who don't know, MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) is the top Microsoft networking certification. Now, all things being equal I will pass my test and get my MCSE based on my performance in class so far. Now, ask me what I know about networking.... Not a d@mn thing. I have a hard time getting my own personal PC to work right. If you put me in charge of a network you can bet on one thing... CRASH! Why is this relevant? Many people make their hiring decision based very heavily on that certificate. Yet it proves only one thing, good test taking skills. In fact, my class instructor has confided in me that while the company he works for hires only certified people very few of them actually know what they are doing. I fear that if web development where measured in a similar fashion it would lead to the reverse effect sought after.

Then again, I could be wrong.

Thanks for reading,
Ed Mercado

[huebdoo]

No the industry should not be regulated...

If you want the quality and professionalism of the industry to increase, simply clamp down on punks with cracked copies of Photoshop and Dreamweaver and say that they are "web designers" They are the ones that !bleep! Out the industry and charge half the price that someone legit can because they didn’t pay for a single piece of software in their library.

You want to blame anyone for destroying the industry; blame the little punks living in their parent’s basement downloading off Kazzaa software titles that they would never be able to afford.

[tertius]

Regulations for web design? What body would be the legislator of the minimum acceptable standards (of whatever aspect of web design is to be governed)? I don't think there's a legal entity out there competent to pass judgment on all aspects of web design. (W3C is closest, but looking at their semantic web initiative can you see this being strictly applied to e-commerce sites--as well as their standards (HTML as noncompliant subset of SGML for example) not being fully in sync with other standards organizations (IETF, etc.) Voluntary standards are a good thing, especially those assisting sites in reaching overlooked population segments (vision or hearing-impaired, etc.) but should not be indiscriminately mandated for all sites (i.e. a flight service site exclusively intended for the use of private and commercial pilots).

Then there's the scope of web design--how would you even attempt to enforce business site "good design"? DO you monitor conversion ratios and say it qualifies with a nn% or higher conversion ratio? Do you judge by some "user experience" based standard? Businesses already enforce in part their own business "standards" by voting with their feet and $$ when a contracted service fails to meet agreed-upon contractual obligations as determined by both parties.

Even the good idea of standards compliancy has it's rough edges--I can't agree with the member stating "set a minimum standard of XHTML 1.0 with CSS". Checking server log files, I have clients whose target audience has over 30% of users still using v4 and earlier NS and IE browsers! You can guess what their response would be if I told them that their site should ignore those users until they catch up with the rest of the web and use latest version (so-called "standards-compliant") browsers! (Not to mention digital/cellular devices, sight-reader devices, non-graphical user agents, etc.) We don't need a "Big-brother" bureacuracy mandating design--can't you just see some bureaucrat legislating against the use of red and blue rationalizing (a la ADA) that these colors impose an undue burden on those suffering from various forms of color blindness!

What is desperately needed is client education and information on the realities of operating in cyberspace. Unfortunately most businesses wanting a website have not determined the business purpose for their sites nor understand the workings of the Internet in order to see if their business model aligns with the realities of the web. Those who fail to learn the basics are usually the ones sold "snake-oil" cure-all sites that may be pretty but are neither found by prospective customers nor meet results-oriented business expectations.

[firesidebks]

I couldn't resist one more comment...the web is a flourishing living thing filled with creativity and innovative ideas, always changing and growing and SPONTANEOUS! I'm not negating a need for awarness of accessibility issues. I just wouldn't want to see a loss of the innovative brainstorming style one currently finds on the internet... I hope the web remains a fun free place to roam and express ourselves.

[virtualsilk]

Who do we currently regulate? People who have a direct impact on our health and safety, like doctors, manicurists and automobile makers.

No one regulates our counterparts, the print and graphics industries and Hollywood.

I am also against imposing set standards on ourselves. I have as clients a 22 year old race car driver and the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant Independent Safety Committee. The driver wants Flash and impact. The nuclear site must work in Netscape4 and be accessible.

W3C standards cannot be the only criteria until all of the browsers comply with them.

If the international community, whoever they are, or the US decides the Internet needs regulating, let them start by spending their time and money regulating spam.

In the meantime, thank you to the incompetent and dishonest out there. Your previous clients are now some of my best clients.

[janeth]

I will start with the fact that I'm against anything that would make the government bigger. It is doing that very well all by itself.
However if a group of designers got together and built a website where it approved other designers and put say a ribbon of approval on the designers site. Something that sounded like it meant something and also had a place for them to go if they had a problem. The website would have to be set up in a way it could be ranked number one on the search engines. This would cause every web designer to want to be a part just for advertising on the website. You would also have a list of the websites that customers had complained about. Of course before a website is put on this page it would have to be decided by a small group he had done something wrong. This group would have to change every six months or so to keep anyone person from gaining control.
I would also think that the small group would be in charge of what websites got in. They would have to go on the site appearance the design and layout not on the knowledge or amount of work someone has done. After they got in it could get higher ranks for customers that sent a letter of approval in or kicked out for bad letters.
This is as close as I would come to wanting something regulated.

[Grogster]

I agree with the majority of the posts - NO regulation is needed. As the World Wide Web is just that, who would be in charge of regulations and certifications, the W3C, the United Nations or the US government who is having trouble regulating the whole world as it is? If everyone would follow the W3C's guidelines plus keep their pages to a usable size for those who do not have broadband, this would be a great start.

I have been in this business since 1997 and like any other business, web design and programming weeds itself out without any need for help from some bureaucrat or government types to mess it up for good.

Any regulation of who has the right to construct and manage websites would be the start of disaster on the web but hopefully no one would be stupid enough to let it happen!


G. MacLennan

[msmusic]

No regulations. If you hire somebody, take a dood look at the work, he did already, first. Web site design is not so much a matter of knowledge of programming languages, but of understanding, what is the Internet about, marketing, taste and understanding, what the clients wants and needs.

[Sereniti]

The WWW is probably the nearest thing to a functional anarchy that will ever exist. A classic example of the good, the bad and the ugly.

The cream will always rise to the top if left alone. But if you're constantly stirring the mix, you'll never find it.

The best we can do is educate those consumers around us regarding what, in our own opinion, constitutes quality design - or at least what indicates that a web design professional is just that, a professional.

Guilds and other groups that present something akin to the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" to web designers, rather than regulating who is or is not allowed to call themselves a web designer, are as far as I'm be willing to go. Might as well regulate who can and cannot call themselves a music teacher, sculptor or graphic designer. Need I go on? Nah, I think I've said quite enough.

[Reece]

TVIMAN ~ you said. The W3C is nothing more than an organization that develops standards - and in this context, standards for web pages.

Exactly. but many, MANY webmasters use that as if it was a certification of a better website.....

Nothing makes up for poor use of color and bad content, now that I would love to have regulated *grins. sarcasm folks*

[netcastles]

I don't think the industry should be regulated. However, this introduces the problem of how do uniformed newbies looking for a designer select one? There are so many aspects involved, and clients tend to focus mostly on the visual aspect of the sites in a portfolio. Maybe big businesses know how to go about things, but small businesses may not have the resources to know where to go and what to do. Never mind trying to regulate later, what should clients be doing now to get informed? Searching the millions (?) of designer sites on the web is a daunting task. Is there an industry standard right now, like a degree, or membership in an organization, that is a good indicator of the integrity of a designer? Is there a "How to select a web designer for dummies" book? There should be some accepted, standard way for clients to start looking and be confident in their choices. This is more a cultural matter than a regulatory issue, however.

[zenhead]

I agree with those who wonder who will do the regulating. Who will decide what standards are required? I don't want that job, thank you very much. (I've stayed in one or two 5 star hotels that made me wonder who was handing out the stars...) The day-care industry, at least in Maine, hands out a certification, but anyone can offer daycare, with or without the certificate. As someone here said, check references! Buyer beware! If enough buyers did that, sellers would begin to get the message that their claims would be investigated.

[cyanide]

I agree with those who wonder who will do the regulating.
Do you mean web design ?

Although swaying from the topic, you make good points about other industries.

I've always thought that parenting should be regulated. Some people are just not fit !!

[mrpimms]

These so-called experts started cropping up everywhere when I was working in a company designing sites for the Fortune 100, with ad agencies throughout New York. They made a killing on compiling someone elses rules and giving a Power Point presentation. I sometimes would ask who their biggest client was, most of the time the answer was evasive.

This type is insidious. They join every technology committee and web guild there is. But when it comes to true creativity and innovation, they look for an accredited authority to hide behind.

If we didn't push the edge of what people could view and use, we'd all be looking at gray background hypertext with blue underlined links. ie. Mosaic at 640 x 480 256 colors. It took Netscape to embellish the W3c standards and IE to push even harder for the sake of the user experience.

Application designers follow standards and import clip art into the grid making the web boring place it is fast becoming. Less users are logging on not more...Yeah you can do more than ever, but it's gotta be fun to use, and stimulating or forget it.

Good Web desingers breath fresh air into a web page and make us excited to log in and experince something new. They can do it, and we "get" how to use it quickly. That's good web design, different, refreshing - but we get it.

Many things don't work on the web, but that's where the things that do work, truly stand out. First they are critisized, then they are copied.

[dman]

I'm surprised at all the answers....

I know we have a lot of regulations but.... I've delt with quite a few clients that have been riped off. It's like when you hire a mechanic for your car if he's certified well you know he knows what he's doing....or at least he should. Same goes for the web. I know the web and I know what is good. But 99% don't , so it's not fair to them to not have any certifications to permit them to weed out people.

Like someone who builds a site entirely with a wysiwyg and charges 45-80$ is just wrong. especially with the rising of standards out there. I do realise that some people are just designers and some are just developpers but if you are not both, hire someone to be your complement. It's hard to explain to a clients that you should redo their entire page because they want a few paragraphs changed.

Anyways to each their own, But since there is no real certification, be honest and don't sell yourself for what you are not and it will stay that way.

[azee]

I am struck by some of the answers on this forum.

Regulations ??? Heck NO ...Standards ??? I agree
BUT THE LITTLE GUY/GAL STILL DESERVES A CHANCE

Every one of us started at the beginning and all
of us knew very little about anything but we seem
to forget that we were there ourselves at some
point in time.

So what that when we start we may not adhere 100%
to coding HTML standards. Is this what making a
living in this bussines is all about ?.

I started web design tree years ago and YES, at the
beginning I used almost exclusively a WYSIWYG.
I agree with good practices when designing a web
site but sometimes we hype this bussines to death.

If the site does what is supposed to do and the
design is reasonable, as long as the client is
satisfied I do not critizice a designer just
because he is not an ace coding perfect html or
does not implement 100% usability.

The client has to check the designer credentials
before they hire him/her an check some of the
work in his/her portfolio by talking to the owners
of the websites.

The poor designer will not stay aroung for long,
if he does not improve and the market wil weed
him out since the better ones will always win the
profitable contracts.

We all need to land that first job and generally
we know very little at that point but we learn.

In the human scale nobody is better than anybody
else and what sets us appart is the knowledge that
we acquire along the way and how we use it.

The customer/client must educate himself and I for
one believe on helping with his education, but
I do not care about handholding the client at the
expense of trashing some other designer that may
just happened to have made mistakes.

Regulation to me means more taxes, more paperwork,
more liabilities and this also applies to the so
called experts. When you give some Agency rights
to create new laws, those new laws one day may be
applied against all of us every time some client
decides that we did not do our job.

Let the market get rid itself of poor professionals
and give the newbie a chance to get started. He
will make mistakes along the way like we all did
but eventually he will have to sharpen his skills
if he is to continue doing bussines.

[jta]

beside: anyone can set up a car repair. there is no limitation to that too.

specially in creativity branches there should be no limits. i know, there is still the fight going on between artistic webdesigners and programmer webdesigners.

the big problem of the branch is that this two types rarely like to work together and both see their market chances and fight for it.

take care
jta

[123456789]

No no no...

Regulation would be only burden the designer(s),
and add cost for the buyer(s).

If the buyer does his/her homework, there should not be a lot of problems. Just like any service
business, if the provider does a lousy job word
will get around.


~Roland

If this industry ever does regulate with paperwork bureacracy and I have to take the time out of my already busy designing schedule I will take what I currently charge right now and double it. I will as well charge double on paperwork, layouts, and the time it takes for me certify both myself and anybody who works for me.....NO NO NO...moderator wrong subject. Untill you are willing to do hours of coding and recoding please be careful what you wish for...

You need to listen to my comment and Rolands listed above mine...

David

[123456789]

I notice the people voting Yes in this Forum, dont comment they just vote yes. Please remeber that should any regulation ever pass at all, and the government steps into our lives and starts to intercede, design, layout and coding prices will double, and maybe even triple. If the government decides to butt into our affairs as designers, then we simply charge the government price...the buyer
will then be forced to either sit down and learn
coding (Most don't do this in business, not when there is a window of opportunity getting product to market) or they will pay for the designers time, cost, and certification......

Lets put a challenge up, for people who vote yes to put some comments in on why they think something stupid like this should pass....

lets see church is being requlated now, as well as other things in the news, gee lets regulate how people think as well...

[123456789]

No No No No No No regulation, or I will triple my prices

[123456789]

Let see comments from people that vote yes.If you
have the nerve to.......

[mark3738]

As a novice to web design I also feel that regulation can sometimes be to the detriment of creativity. Clients can, as mentioned in most posts, easily check for a designers credibility. However in a case like mine in a small country at the bottom of the world (New Zealand) although I have only developed 2 to 3 websites they have been developed for people that would otherwise have not obtained a site at the present time. They have been developed due to contact with myself and because of this I now have four more projects on the go. With regulation I would not have the chance to develop these sites as well as learning as I go. I still try to have standards like those used in w3c and feel that anyone wishing to make a success in this industry would surely also try to maintain standards or disappear under the 'user pays' criterium. Anyway I really enjoy the webpro forums and am trying to learn as much as I can from all the great feedback given on here.