Dear Google Clean this

[freehits]

I was looking at a market closely to help a friend, as step one would bet to see what the serps now hold.

The SERPS are so bad (read on..) that it is pointless for anyone to even think about competing.
How can you tell a webmaster, fresh content and youll be fine?

I read of the "this penalty" and the "that penalty" but how fine tuned can the filters actually be when one finds the occasional market absolutely flooded with garbage. It makes me wonder how many of these "filters" are a myth.

I watch SERPS alllllll day long and dont even know what to say to anyone actually trying to make a legitimate mark on any of these markets.

"directv OH" 2,300,000 results, - 9 duplicate sites on page #1

"buy direct tv" top 6 sites Duplicate domains

"directv AL" 2,180,000 results - ENTIRE PAGE #1 is duplicate sites.

"directv NY" - All 10 spots page #1 duplicate
"directv CA" - All 10 spots page #1 duplicate
"directv MI" - All 10 spots page #1 duplicate
"directv NC" - All 10 spots page #1 duplicate
"directv FL" - All 10 spots page #1 duplicate

Pick a state, any state....ALL 10 SPOTS same duplicate site. Keep in mind these are 2,000,000+ searches.

Im not screaming... "hey these serps are bad", I think what I put above is beyond the realm of normal bad results.

Keep in mind these are not "websites that are similar", these are complete empty pages with 200 links on them.

I dont even know what to make of it, I have never seen such spam on google in 3 years of wacthing.

It just drives me further toward the fact that the linking system is so seriously flawed beyond saving. I dont even know what to tell someone hoping to "improve there position" when the top 20 spots are link farms by one group? what can someone actual say? ...."oh theyll get banned after 3-4 months of great sales?"

I am in awe of this mess...
BLACK:35pts WHITE:3pts

[ctabuk]

The pool is nearly clean!!!
I did my monthly IBP Check yesterday, according to that I was on page two of Google on all my keywords, I sat there gob smacked, that meant I had done it, but when I checked for real I was still on 7, you use IBP, so how come Google is fooling it too?

[MathsIsFun]

Absolutely stunning !

And this is why Google are always playing with their algorithm, and why normal sites fluctuate up and down in the SERPs as all the factors get re-weighted.

I am reminded of the tax system. As the fringe of society try to evade tax, the laws just get more and more tough and complex, and normal tax payers are left wondering why it is so hard to fill in a "simple" tax return.

[MathsIsFun]

Absolutely stunning, hoptoo !

What is their purpose?

And this is why Google are always playing with their algorithm, and why normal sites fluctuate up and down in the SERPs as all the factors get re-weighted.

I am reminded of the tax system. As the fringe of society try to evade tax, the laws just get more and more tough and complex, and normal tax payers are left wondering why it is so hard to fill in a "simple" tax return.

[freehits]

I just ran a huge report and my IBP missed a whole bunch on MSN, maybe others i didnt notice? Maybe time to go for the 8.0 beta test.

[ctabuk]

I've already got it and it was free!
I'll run it through as well.

[JayDrake]

Running through the google results I don't feel like the problem is as bad as it seems. From what I can tell noone is doing a really good job of SEO for the phrases you are looking for, so the spammy junk floats to the top because it is the closest to 'good SEO' that there is for those phrases. Write good unique content, get good links, particularly from sites already indexed in Google, and take the top spots for the phrases you want.

Sometimes when Google has crummy results it has more to do with crummy SEO on the part of those sites which would be better results or a complete lack of SEO, not Google screwing up.

[Andilinks]

When Google has bad results, the fault lies with Google, they are failing in their primary mission.

Google's job is to stay one step ahead of the SEO spammers, and when they fail it is Google's failure, no one else's. They cannot possibly be unaware that these sleazy sites are ruining their results.

If Google doesn't clean this up their days are numbered as number one. I've heard these rumblings too. I've been saying this for months but this example is the worst yet...

Andi

[freehits]

wow, Jay im not sure what you are looking at, or what you could possibly believe...get some links and good content would do for someone hoping to compete for these markets.

I think you didnt spend enough time looking at this network of garbage. This is not taking the few top spots....I wouldnt waste a post on that.

My examples and 100 other major searches have "NO FIRST PAGE RESULTS" other than these sites that are referrer spamming the top 10-15 spots.

And if you think there is nobody competing for the terms related to Directv/direct tv?

Im not sure what would make you say the problem isnt as bad as it seems, I can only imagine you didnt look close enough at the SERPS mentioned above.

This is the worst spam i have seen in 3 years of watching serps daily on google. And before some suggests writing them.....

"Write good unique content, get good links, particularly from sites already indexed in Google, and take the top spots for the phrases you want. "

That is a great cliche, you live in a wonderful colorful world.

[saurab]

If Google doesn't clean this up their days are numbered as number one. I've heard these rumblings too.
Andi

I have heard these rumblings too, but only from the SEO or webmaster community. Why have I never heard a non-tech guy tell me anything like that ? Because as compared to the competition, Google Rulz. Google's mission is not to serve the webmaster community. Google's mission is not to serve the webmaster community. Google's mission is not to serve the webmaster community. Phew.

--saurab

[espectations]

I experience the same - some of the search terms we have to use have all sorts of link farms etc. listing above our good content.

One does not know what to think anymore ....... to me it also seem as if the selected few that buy Adwords advertising always stay on top......

I just decided that there are other search engines too and am now closely tracking enquiries to establish their origin - this far it looks as if my enquiries are coming from Yahoo.....

My linking strategy is now only to link to sites where I feel the content will be of value to my visitors.

I am of opinion that linking is not as important as it used to be - it takes a lot of time to evaluate all sites but then again maybe this is the best way to go about it.

[freehits]

Google's mission is not to serve the webmaster community. Phew.

--saurab

So what is googles mission then?

I believe above andi points out that it is to provide relevent results....and that is what she points they are failing at. Nothing more nothing less.

The only thing as widespread as google bashing is blind defense of them, and retalitory webmaster bashing.

[AzGoldPros]

I agree with all above except Saurab. I think someone needs to give him a nudge to wake him up from his fantasy dream so he can do a reality check. He totally missed what is being said as someone above me has pointed out. I recently found 15 examples of spammers on 15 different keywords. There were two different websites and they each had 2 listings appearing mostly although one had only one page showing on 1 or 2 of the searches. They were cloaking and sending the SE spiders to cloaked pages with both massive repetition of the search keywords and also played on Google's new semantic acquisition and algorithm usage of the technology. For example, I am searching for the term Chevrolet. They had it repeated about 40-80 times along with chivrolet, chivrolay, shivrolay, shiv ro lay etc. These are not the actual search terms but you see what I am leading to here. There were 100 or more such instances of search term changes in this manner and both pages that were used to fool Google's spider contained virtually the same. This gave them 2 pages in the 1st page of results and of course when you clicked on the links you were redirected to the exact same website for each of the two pages for the specific spammer's links. Now for one of the search terms the product the sites that you were redirected to had a legitimate product and content, but all the rest were like trying to sell you auto insurance, tires, new paint jobs or some other unrelated term than the real term of Chevrolet. They were simply spamming, cloaking and redirecting and Google just doesn't seem to catch on to it or doesn't care about it. I just used Chevrolet here as an example, that was not one of the actual search terms but I believe the example is adequate as a model for this discussion.

I reported all of these incidences to Google using their own website page designed to report such activities. I am sure there were more terms spammed but gave up after finding around 15. Keep in mind, my reports were very thorough and contained all the URL's in question, both the listing on the search results and the ones which they were redirected to. I decided this was worth investing an hour's time just to see if Google really reads these and responds proactively to them and researches the results and sites in question. Now I know it takes them time to research as we all know they are just a small Mom and Pop organization and have to rely on relatives to help with the work since they can't afford employees. But 2 weeks later I still receive Google Alert Notifications with the same 2 spammer websites and links telling me they just popped into the top 10 for various search terms which I check on. Go figure folks, every time they change the algorithm, and I say this as an observer from before Google was even conceived, these types are always one step ahead of them. The only ones I've seen hurt is the legitimate websites who keep getting pushed back further and further to virtual disappearance. These deceitful types always beat the algorithms and I have studied some of the most intricate matrices of their linking systems. It's simply amazing at the amount of work they put into fooling the SE's rather than build legitimate sites that are content worthy, appealing and truly give the SE users what they are looking for. So it's not only frustrating to see your legitimate site disappear, but you are also insulted by seeing that Google rewards these illegitimate sites with first page results, many in positions 1 & 2, which practice deceit on both the SE and the SE user. It's a flagrant shame this is allowed to happen because the end result is that the results are unrelated to the term(s) searched for and that is a reason to quit using a search engine (SE). When enough discover this on their own, and I have many tell me this is where they are using Google, then the SE will fail to meet it's need from those that use it and will cease to exist if allowed to go unchecked. This is no different from any business or even community for that matter. There are many ghost towns around the world that can attest to this from their lonely graves. I really wish Google could turn itself around but I've seen no sign of this for over a year now. Ever since the first algorithm change they've just managed to screw it up more and more each time to the point I see no return for them. Time will tell. Time will tell. And for the record Saurab, search engines come and go as many already have, but websites and webmasters have always been here since the internet started and will be here until it ends so you might rethink about who really needs who the most. An empty vessel is just an empty vessel without something to put into it. I don't think you go to the grocery store and buy empty bottles and packages do you? Of course not! There has to be content in them and in this example websites are the majority of content in search engines and that is why people use them, to find content for whatever reason.

[ppayne]

I've generally been happy with what I search for, but then as my company sells Japan related items, I'm usually searching for something very unique. If I want information on Japanese burial mounds I can search for "kofun burial mound" and get exactly what I need. I've found some searches are just worthless when the words are very generic. Once I was trying to find info on a part of Final Cut for Apple called A.Pack, which came out as "a pack" to Google, and thus nothing could be found that was useful.

[magic2147]

What's IBP?

[freehits]

IBP is
Internet Business Promoter 4.0 software

It has recently been released as 8.0 Beta as well.
Shown here www.Axandra.com

I did not intend to lead a charge on a bash thread for all spam, but to this one example which is unlike anything I have seen and has completely ruined searching for the entire Directv market.

I believe it is time they turn some of that revenue they brag of and pay for some human interaction. A 100 -200 person customer service center would not break the bank, but could handle all of the spam reports and clean up the SERPS considerably.

Without some true human interaction they will be down the same road as Ebay, who recently had to send all members an apology email regarding past "customer service failures", and there new commitment to trying harder...too late ebay, you have the worst penny pinching customer service on the internet.

I hope google learns from ebay's mistake in this department.

[ctabuk]

I think the reference to Ebay, just about sums it up, I think Google is eating it's own spew, it feeds so many other SE's and they are churning out the same rubbish results. To answer hoptoo - I hope correctly, is that you should explain to your client, by letting him or her read this thread. Let them know that it's not just you having problems with big G - it is all of us. Maybe we are just watching a volcano about to go pop!

10minutes after posting this I checked my Google rankings, top page two, so IBP was 2 day's ahead of what I read, so make sense of that.

[DrTandem1]

Whoa, hold on a minute. TV Dishes? Have you people looked around outside? I'm talking about the real world where the majority of people spend their time. Even the grocery store is selling satellite TV! The only thing as competitive is the cell phone industry.

Try walking through a mall without seeing about a dozen kiosks selling PCS phones. Not only that, but you'll see the same companies each with multiple kiosks in the same mall.

Google is nothing more than a virtual reflection of the real world. Does anyone really go online to by satellite TV? Only after they have seen the ad from either DirecTv or Dish network. Then they go to the corporate sites, not John Doe's even IF he was number one on Google.

Do you have any idea why all of those sites on Google are the same for that product? Because they are all selling the exact same thing as authorized agents for the two major corporations that offer satellite TV.

Google is not interested in webmasters other than counteracting the propensity of the SEO subculture constantly trying to hack their way to the top of the SERPs. Unfortunately, too many complain that their sites aren't number one, so something must be wrong with Google.

Going back to the dish TV market, most people are looking for an inexpensive way to watch three or more TVs in their home and dumping the crappy service and high cost of their cable TV provider. It doesn't matter how many ads the CATV industry runs on their own networks bashing satellite TV. Satellite TV is a superior product and by the way, the feed the local cable company receives comes from a dish. So, the extent of content for the average visitor is price and freebies (Tivo, etc.), not content in such as the technical workings of satellite TV.

[freehits]

Google is nothing more than a virtual reflection of the real world. Does anyone really go online to by satellite TV? Only after they have seen the ad from either DirecTv or Dish network. Then they go to the corporate sites, not John Doe's even IF he was number one on Google.


I agree wholeheartedly agree with the statement "google is a virtual reflection"..

but the assertion that nobody is "searching or buying" direct tv related searches online?

Assuming you look at the spam, if it is affiliate garbage, then it is a doorway to the corporate site.

also keep in mind, assuming you did take the time to look closer..., the post isnt about "a #1 ranking" these referrer spammed sites have EVERY SPOT ON THE FIRST PAGE with duplicate domains for 100-200 different keyword searches, each with over 2,000,000 results.

I think the point is how can one even find the "corporate site" when this industry is completely trashed in the google serps by one group.

[DrTandem1]

Simply enter dish TV and the second result on Google is DishNetwork. Satellite TV gives you both DishNetwork and DirecTV in the top two spots. That is where people stop. The rest are irrelevant, for the most part. Maybe you need a new converter box and not a subscription? Satellite TV converter box gives you a gazillion sites that sell such stuff. Then again, why not just go to Circuit City?

Maybe I'm missing the point, but the top results returned were very relevant for me. If there are a gazillion sites selling satellite TV, and Google returned over 17 MILLION results for that term, I would expect that the law of averages would say that most of the sites would be virtually the same as one another.

[freehits]

If you would search for "dish tv"
then this makes sense.

But since directv is the brands' actual name, and since direct tv as a phrase is the most common search I can think of

Overture
say 41000 searches for "dish tv"
and says 937,000 searches for "directv"

I think the spammers know the market better than anyone on this post.

"Directv" and directv with regional terms attached are the biggest searches in a market that you point out is "huge".

So the reason you see relevent results for "dish tv" is that term isnt important enough to go after with spam, as compared to the ones they have chosen.

The pont of the post again is that this entire market is useless on google, since this one group has referrer spammed the ENTIRE PAGE 1 with duplicate domains.

And we now have established as fact that they have done this for the largest search terms in that market.

A blatent loophole in a flawed system, and the worst exploitation of that fact I have ever seen.

[alken]

I can only speak for my own family company, Alken-Murray Corporation. I usually appear at the top of various relevant search terms, but sometimes one of our authorized distributors bumps a notch or two ahead of me for one term. Many manufacturers, but especially MLM companies, require their authorized distributors to put up identical websites, with different domain names, so that they do not accidentally make statements contrary to the lawyer approved text on the parent website. I do not follow this policy, but I do not operate an MLM scam, but I do require my distributors to copy exactly any tutorial they choose to copy and list me as author with link back to my company site. I hate it when people copy my technical articles, without permission or proper credit to me as author of those tutorials because it could potentially lead innocent readers to think that I am the copycat instead of the true author and expert. I get almost 20 times as many inbound links as my nearest competitors, due to winning website awards and universities and schools linking to my technical articles and glossaries, with permission. Various professional organizations I belong to also link to the Alken-Murray website and those are mostly one-way inbound links, but I link back to those that I believe offer useful information for our clients and distributors.

Just as I do not care where inquiries come from, my site or an authorized Alken-Murray distributor, they will be referred to the correct distributor for them, either by me personally or by my distributors, who use my posted distributor index to help them refer the potential client to the correct authorized distributor for the specific territory. If Direct TV sets up specific geographic distributorships, and links come in to them, they will refer the potential client to the correct authorized local distributor, no matter which site draws the inquiry. Therefore, the supposed spam may not be irrelevant after all, if each distributor has a defined territory in which he can legally market Direct TV.

Sincerely yours,
The Red Scorpion aka Valerie Anne Edwards
http://www.alken-murray.com

[Simar]

I believe it is time they turn some of that revenue they brag of and pay for some human interaction. A 100 -200 person customer service center [quote]
I agree with hoptoo. There is hardly any choice with Google. They have to go in for a human interfaced 24x7 search spam center to keep their act clean. Ofcourse in the process there can be lot of SEO dirty linen being washed in public by Google, and may result in many servers, domains etc banned, but it would cleanse the whole system for once.

[freehits]

Alken this example is an issue with duplicated domains. Check the WHOis and see they are all the same people duping the entire first page.

Perhaps its time to stop fighting the SEO webmasters and just put us on the antispam payroll. "Search and ban" for 100-200 knowledgable people under a structured system could clean the serps considerably over time.

One less Summer home for the CEO's and you can greatly imrove your SERPS and PR in one smooth stroke.

[incrediblehelp]

hoptoo,

How long have the results been like this for your keyword related to "direct tv"?

I usually see SPAM like this disappear after 2-3 updates.

[freehits]

cant say, I just had a friend ask about the possibility of a good position for a new site of this keyword market.

There is none outside of a long likely impossible road. With these sites referrer spamming for links, nobody will move them. They are PR0 sites and still dominate every search. I am now watching, and can only hope you are right for anyone trying to make an online sale in these markets.

They have been there for weeks that I can verify, I just started watching...maybe years..maybe weeks

[sandis.viksna]

The guy had figured out what works and took 10 domains and dominated the search engines. I think, pritty good idea. but quality sucks.

[freehits]

No, if what works doesnt meet the google guidelines, then either change the guidlines or remove the garbage.

200-400 links, duplicate domains, no text content, what is there is duplicated on every domain.

And the fact that it is being referrer spammed to the top is a seperate and equal issue.

Also, it is much more than 10 domains, I can find many searches where there first NON-DUPLICATE site is position #19. This garbage has completely ruined the 100 top ranking search keywords in this market.

This is not my market.....but if this showed up on all your keywords, you would change your tune to a more realistic view.