Can we liken DMOZ editors to DMV employees?

[mysticlighthouse]

I've been trying to get listed in DMOZ for... oh... I don't know... most of the year. Here is my latest escapades with DMOZ editors in their forum
here (http://resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=57292&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1).

[cbp]

I think that any DMOZ editor that does not list a flash site are doing the search public a favour. I went to your site and got tired of waiting for the flash to load --> I was out of there and so will a lot of searchers.

Searchers want valuable content - not pretty animation.

CBP

[mysticlighthouse]

Isn't it our purpose (as web developers) to show our potential clients what is possible with our talents? If I choose to cater to only flash, is that not my perogative? Should I HAVE to do with my site what others on slow connections tell me to do? Maybe the clientel that I am seeking do in deed have high speed connections.

[flood6]

I used to nose around that forum from time to time, but quit going after I got tired of reading the editor's crap. Your thread there is a perfect example. As was mentioned and inferred there, it is their job to edit the directory, not offer unwelcome site reviews.

Editors and webmasters give flash sites a hard time a lot, but if you don't like it, guess what...wait for it...HIS SITE ISN'T FOR YOU...it's for potential clients who often like to see a few bells and whistles.

My company site has a static background image, webmasters HATE it. I put more time into my ecommerce sites, but when I do get a site design client or inquiry from the site, you know what they inevitably comment on or request for their site? That's right; they want a "cool" background image. I then talk them out of it, telling them about all the negatives, but the fact is, most of my clients think flash, and other "whiz-bang" websites are great. Average surfers (and clients) don't look at websites the way we do.

Bryan isn't asking for the editors' opinions about his site, he's asking that they be nice enough to give his site the consideration they would give any other site they review. Being DMOZ editors does not make them experts on all things electronic. Let the clients he gains or looses decide if it is a good site or an annoying site. They would have to agree that it AT LEAST meets the minimum requirements to get listed, even the biggest flash hater in the world would have to agree that there are some people out there who will benifit from his site being listed.

Being listed in one category or another is a point that I won't even comment on because I can't figure out what they are thinking sometimes when it comes to why they place some sites where they do.

I understand that the editors are volunteers and that they have to put up with a lot of "special" people on that forum, but they (not all, but many) always come across as pricks on that forum. If they get annoyed by people there, stop posting and reading the forum and go back to positioning sites on the directory.

It is a sad, but true fact. Not being listed on that directory has a significant impact on the traffic and visibility a site gets.

In case a DMOZ editor reads this; I wasn't talking about you...I was talking about somebody else...

[mysticlighthouse]

flood6,

Thanks for the understanding. My site the way it is, is what draws my clients in. I could change it, but then it wouldn't be my style or how I want to convey my business.

I definitely sensed a superiority and purist tone in the editors' replies. Actually, the only one that seemed to be nice to me was "thehelper".

All I asked was why I was changed to basic from full service and I was ganged up on by a host of editor thugs. Even though it'll hurt me in the search engines... I'll have to say TO HELL WITH DMOZ!!

[cbp]

Not being listed on that directory has a significant impact on the traffic and visibility a site gets.


I have never had one visitor from my site being listed in DMOZ.

CBP

[mysticlighthouse]

cpb,

Google and many other search engines give more weight to sites listed in the DMOZ.

[cbp]

Google and many other search engines give more weight to sites listed in the DMOZ

No they don't. Google give no more weight to a DMOZ listing than any other link of similar PR and number of links on the page.

Do you have evidence otherwise?

CBP

[mysticlighthouse]

How would pages with lower page rank and less key word density surpass overnight pages that are higher in all the above categories just by being included in dmoz?

You can't tell me there isn't extra value added to being in the dmoz directory

I've seen your posts on WPW and you're very adamant about google not giving preference to DMOZ listings. And that's your opinion. You're entitled to it. But can YOU prove it?

Why do you think google uses those listings in the first place? Because they think that maybe they are more credible because they have been "hand-selected".

[greeneagle]

mysticlighthouse posted querie:

Can we liken DMOZ editors to DMV employees?

Are we talking about Texas or California?

Ken

[cbp]

Why do you think google uses those listings in the first place?

It uses them for its Directory, not its search index.

OK - I have no evidence, except many sites do very well without an ODP/DMOZ listing (none of my sites did noticably increase in PR or jump up in search results when they got listed in DMOZ).

Are you suggesting that Google somehow manipulates it search algorithm to boost sites listed in DMOZ or somehow give a boost to PR of categories at DMOZ (Google have denied this one)? The unlikelihood that this is occuring is the basis of my OPINION that a DMOZ listing is no more important than another link.

BTW - I suspect that many readers outside the USA have any idea was DMV stands for. I also think your attempt at this poll is silly for what is supposed to be a forum for a serious discussion.

CBP

[mysticlighthouse]

DMV - Department of Motor Vehicles
Usually understaffed offices which makes most of the employees which have to deal with the public quite stressed and therefore are construed as rude

okay cpb, there's the definition for the rest of the world. BTW, not all DMV employees are rude, I know some and they are quite nice. Just as "thehelper" was. Now back to the topic.

cpb,

if you feel that the poll is silly, you don't have to partake in it. WPW doesn't twist your arm to come to the forums, neither do I. What I find intriguing is that you keep coming back to the "silly" poll.

I'm merely pointing out the attitudes of many dmoz editors and their seemingly bias position against flash sites.

I do appreciate, however, your posts because they add to the wealth of information available to readers and posters alike and give a fuller picture of the possible sides to the topic. If everyone agreed in the forums, it would be very dull and pointless indeed.

[mysticlighthouse]

Good question greeneagle... hmmm... ever seen "License to Drive"? Just like that. I believe that was based in California. So I'll have to say Cali for sure.

[simonm]

What are DMV employees?

[mysticlighthouse]

simonm,

for a definition please refer to the second post above yours. I must thank cbp for pointing out that I needed to have a definition for non-US members. My apologies.

[mysticlighthouse]

knovinc seems to be another nice editor. He hasn't promised me inclusion in the directory that I wanted, but has handled everything very professionally and very courteously.

That's all I have been asking.

[flood6]

Not being listed on that directory has a significant impact on the traffic and visibility a site gets.


I have never had one visitor from my site being listed in DMOZ.

CBP


If your site has been accepted into the Open Directory, it may take anywhere from 2 weeks to several months for your site to be listed on partner sites which use the Open Directory data, such as AOL Search, DirectHit, HotBot, Google, Lycos, Netscape Search, etc.

So once again, I think my initial statement about the importance of being listed in DMOZ is valid...

[cbp]

if you feel that the poll is silly, you don't have to partake in it. WPW doesn't twist your arm to come to the forums, neither do I. What I find intriguing is that you keep coming back to the "silly" poll.


I did not partake in the poll - I notice that only 2 people have.

I think it is silly because you did not get the answer you wanted from a group of people in one forum - now you have come to another forum (WPW) to bag them - this looks like sour grapes to me.

Congrats on geting your site listed.

CBP

[kctipton]

I've got broadband and your site loaded slowly for me too.

Is there a particular browser you think people should be using for your site? I'm probably using something else based on what I experienced.

[sonnie]

Well, I don't know about the other comments, but I went to your site and it took about 5 seconds to load. I am using broadband and didn't see a problem. By the way, I like the music you chose, matches the theme.

sonnie

[mysticlighthouse]

Thanks sonnie...

kc, Maybe at the time you did it the net was congested? Not sure.


I think it is silly because you did not get the answer you wanted from a group of people in one forum - now you have come to another forum (WPW) to bag them - this looks like sour grapes to me.
It is not sour grapes, basically it was exposing a recurrent theme about exceedingly rude editors and (dare I say it?) prejudice against flash sites.

[sonnie]

Almost forgot what topic you were addressing, sorry. I thought Dmoz forgot completely about a site I submitted, never heard a word from them. Suddenly the site I had submitted started appearing in their listings. I had heard that the "volunteers" might have a "bad hair day" and just not decide to include your site. I cannot say that is true, but apparently whoever reviewed the site I submitted was having a good day. I'm sorry, but I have no recommendations to give you. The ODP is a unique concept, with tens of thousands of reviewers. I'm not sure how important it is to be listed, but I would recommend you keep trying.

Thanks
sonnie

[janeth]

Hi everyone a couple things here I have seen mysticlighthouse web site a couple times it has always loaded good for me but I'm on a 56k modem maybe it is better then broadband. lol

I think that Google does put more weight on directories then they do just regular links.

Google is not stupid they know that directories are not just a matter of exchanging links but your site has to be approved by a group of your peers I would think and hope that it would hold more weight.

I would also hope that DMOZ would not keep a site out just because it is a flash site.

The internet is about change if all the people are coming to the internet then your already changing the way they do things and I think things should continue to change.

We should all work hard to stay on the cutting edge of what's new.

Lets not let the internet become a comfort zone and start fighting change. We should look at what's new what works and should work together.

I hope you the best of luck mysticlighthouse but I would not worry to much with Google as we are going to start seeing some changes this year and Google will be in for a fight to stay #1.

One other thing it might not be much but I get about 5 visitors a day from DMOZ not bad

[mysticlighthouse]

kctipton (http://resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=57292&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post57557),

I invite everyone from DMOZ to come and peruse the forum to see what others have to say. Might I remind you that there were 3 very helpful editors (knovinc, xixtas and thehelper), although there were others that seemed a little over-the-top.

[Steven Glover]

cbp just curious but would you say that Google places a higher weight on links coming from a site with a page rank of 9 or a page rank of 3?

I am not sure how you can think that being in DMOZ doe not give your site a boost? DMOZ has an open DB that is used as a starting point on many major and minor search engines.

Although I personally can't stand flash (because I RARELY see it done correctly). I mean it I can't stand flash sites. I don't believe that a site should be excluded from any listing because of the medium it's designer has chosen.

[mysticlighthouse]

The answer to my original question to the DMOZ editors... No (http://resource-zone.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=57292&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post57682)

But at least it was in a nice way from xixtas.