Google=Glorified TV [Archive]

DylanW

12-11-2003, 04:49 PM

There's one sure way to receive top rankings with google - pay big money. End of story. ... Who would run a business under these rules of competition?
Was there ever really any totally sure way to receive top rankings with any SE? Algorithms change and the competition changes (especially if it's a keyword with a lot of competition), so nothing was ever guaranteed.

It comes down to the issue of putting all your eggs in one basket. Diversify the types of advertising you use (SEO, PPC, shopping engines etc.), diversify the keywords you use, and you're going to have less risk in terms of changes than if you spend all your time trying to optimize and tweak for a handful of highly competitive keywords.

janeth

12-11-2003, 05:22 PM

I agree never but all your eggs in one basket but as far as top rankings go with google it is more of a game then anything else and I like to play.

12-11-2003, 10:27 PM

There's one sure way to receive top rankings with google - pay big money. Who would run a business under these rules of competition?

Let me guess... you're from the northern west coast. ;-)

Do you think competition should somehow exclude money? If so, you don't know what competition (or capitalism) really is. Money is, and always has been, one of the key components of competition. And that's good.

Take two equal businesses, with equal skillsets and equal products, but have one with more money in the bank, and that product DESERVES to win. It's an element of competitive advantage like any other. Companies with money can advertise and improve ranking on Google by using that money, just like they can advertise on ABC or CNN or in your local paper using that money. There's nothing new or more egalitarian about the web, nor should there be, no matter what the Birkenstock-wearing set may like to believe.

What cracks me up is how often I see people moaning about big money at the same time that they brag about how fast and nimble their small (i.e., struggling/poor) company is. If so, if small and nimble deserves to be lauded as a competititive advantage, then big and monied deserves to be as well. In fact, if small and nimble is accurately an advantage, then big and monied won't matter because that just offsets it.

Then you're at square one and even with the big guys -- if you're as nimble as you like to think. If you aren't, then maybe you need to move down to the triple A leagues.

Google will cater to advertisers or it will fail as a commercial venture. If you don't satisfy the people who pay you, you don't deserve to exist.

Get over it.

janeth

12-11-2003, 10:42 PM

Take two equal businesses, with equal skillsets and equal products, but have one with more money in the bank, and that product DESERVES to win.

I do not know how your coming up with this but because someone has more money does not mean the deserve to win.

I compete with big business everyday we started this business with no money. I have ten people that work for me and my business is only 8 months old. We make a very good living and do a better job or as good of a job as any site online.

The people that work hard deserve to win. Money has nothing to do with who should win and who should loose.

dmcgill

12-11-2003, 10:43 PM

What a dumb post!
Moderator, when a guest like that enters, I would hope you could block the post.
Anyway.
I know and have known that since the day the Internet woke up and some big money was made, there have been millions out there seeking the gold bar at the end of the Google bar (so to speak). Me and my company, sure, I would love to see it prosper and grow so I could spend my winters in the tropics and summers with my children at that cabin on the lake but... the fact is, it takes work and that causes a lot of problems for some.

That brings me to my point.
What makes this forum different than many of the others that I have belonged to is the fact that it is filled with great people who are working hard and still have that dream. God only knows that if we loose that vision, we will be like the rest of the "drop off .com money chasers". I beg to differ with the "guest", we are all trying and it is because of that, many are going to succeed and perhaps already have. I will continue to try and understand the workings of the net, the secret formula, the never ending dream of that "perfect solution" to how to make my sites and those of my clients the top on all of the search engines, mine, Google, Altavista and more.
So Guest, you didn't make me angry or discouraged, you only made me more determined!!
Members, we can be at the top and we can do it using honesty and fair practices. I take my hat off to each member of this forum and (then put it on quickly to cover up that little tiny bald spot that is starting to show because of all the hair pulling)
Keep on trying

Dmcgill

12-12-2003, 01:08 AM

I compete with big business everyday we started this business with no money. I have ten people that work for me and my business is only 8 months old. We make a very good living and do a better job or as good of a job as any site online.

Although I agree with you on the money bit and your site looks OK, you should really get an 11th employee that scans for spelling errors :)

http://www.geeksonsteroids.com/designawebsite.htm
This page alone contains at least a dozen and I'm not even native English.

dmcgill

12-12-2003, 02:18 AM

TrafficProducer

12-12-2003, 04:21 AM

one with more money in the bank, and that product DESERVES to win.

Why? ---

Ask yourself, Does a site, which has a hundred different fonts, bad links, and a £1,000,000 DESERVES to win???

Basket of eggs

More sites=more keywords=more traffic.
Ref: http://www.solutions.ukdots.com/content_doorway_pages.htm

12-12-2003, 09:02 AM

Money is an asset that you leverage -- as you're doing. You have 10 people -- how do you pay them? With money. You charge for your services. If a client offers to pay you $10,000 for something another client is willing to pay you $1,000, which client will "win"? The $10K client, of course. If you're better than your competition, then that client got the better company helping them and will prosper as compared to the $1,000 client, by virtue of using money as a leveragable asset.

And you'll do the same. If you compete against a smaller shop and the smaller shop has the exact same skillset, you'll generally win, and you should, because you can offer more with greater depth of resources. Your first statement about having 10 people in 8 months tells me that you've said that to others before -- isn't that better than having one person after three years? Of course (and congratulations). You'll use that competititive advantage as it should be used.

But this notion about democratic values in search engines would be the exact opposite of what propelled your success. If your clients said that they were going to spread their work around to more firms instead of yours because that's "democratic", you'd argue that you're better and deserve to win more of their business. And you'd be right.

Take two equal businesses, with equal skillsets and equal products, but have one with more money in the bank, and that product DESERVES to win.

I do not know how your coming up with this but because someone has more money does not mean the deserve to win.

I compete with big business everyday we started this business with no money. I have ten people that work for me and my business is only 8 months old. We make a very good living and do a better job or as good of a job as any site online.

The people that work hard deserve to win. Money has nothing to do with who should win and who should loose.

12-12-2003, 09:14 AM

What a dumb post!
Me and my company, sure, I would love to see it prosper and grow so I could spend my winters in the tropics and summers with my children at that cabin on the lake but... the fact is, it takes work and that causes a lot of problems for some.

So Guest, you didn't make me angry or discouraged, you only made me more determined!!

Dmcgill

You're making my point. You're determined to do what? Make money and provide for your family. You make money by building a better product. That in turn provides you with another asset -- which you can spend at the beach or you can spend building your product up even further to be more competitive. Money is an asset, plain and simple.

But if whoever your clients are decided that it was only "fair" to be "democratic" with their spending, how would you be able to prosper? You couldn't. They'd spend with others and with you, regardless of whether or not you were better.

Google is no different. It's not a democracy. They deserve to be able to charge for adwords and ranking positions and anything else they want. This isn't a college campus. It's business. And those with enough money to spend on Google have every right to prosper by virtue of it being an asset they paid for and turned into revenue.

Notice that I said in my original post that the assumption is, given equal products and equal skillsets, money can and should be the tie breaker. But where a smaller company makes a better product (with less money), OF COURSE they deserve to win. That's what I did. I started with one person (me) and grew my company to 150 people and $25M in revenues and $6M in profit -- with no outside capital, no debt, and no dilution of my stock. I did it by beating much bigger companies. They had money and they had every right to try to use it to stop me. But they didn't do it well. So no, I'm not from some big company that puts out a crappy product. I outmaneuvered the big guys. But there was nothing "unfair" about them trying to use their money -- whether by big ad budgets or hiring lawyers to sue me.

janeth

12-12-2003, 11:21 AM

I would say to continue this when the guest will not post there rich and famous web site adderss is no fun at all

janeth

12-12-2003, 02:46 PM

Now that I have had time to go back and read everything you had to say I agree.

But the way you started out was a lot different then where we ended up.

I have no problem with the way google does things they can change anything and everything they want I will figure out ways around it.

What I want is to see some other sites fighting for the top and not just letting Google hold it all by them selves.

dmcgill

12-12-2003, 05:51 PM

I am a terrible speller as well. I have even found that my spell checker built into my handy-dandy desktop doesn't catch them all. I fail to see that if a person can't spell, that makes them by default a bad webdesigner...
I'm wondering if the "guest", is fixing his or her website prior to letting us see it.
Yes Google can do what ever it wants, just like microsoft has done for years. We will still buy the product and use the search but bye goolllyy it's fun to rib them and it will remain to be upsetting when they switch things around again and have a whole pile of sites start complaining again.
dmcgill

janeth

12-12-2003, 06:08 PM

We add new pages every day and trying to do 100 things at once there are a lot of pages that need work out of 100 pages I'm happy it took him that long to find one and he only found one.

I guess he does not have a web site

anyway the fun is going to get a lot better
as we watch
Yahoo
Msn
Google
fight to be #1

acornwebworks

12-12-2003, 07:10 PM

Take two equal businesses, with equal skillsets and equal products, but have one with more money in the bank, and that product DESERVES to win.

Economics 101 teaches that having money is not what counts...it's what you do with it.

History's trash heap is full of companies who had more money but mishandled it. Does Enron ring a bell?

And mishandling doesn't need to mean criminal mishandling. It can mean misjudgements...think "The New Coke". It can mean technology changes that make your product obsolete practically overnight...think the original Pony Express. It can even mean being arrogant enough to think that having more money means you DESERVE to win :-)

janeth

12-12-2003, 08:32 PM

I agree 100% acornwebworks

jimmack

12-12-2003, 09:20 PM

In a way I agree but also disagree on getting top positions in the Google search engine without getting into a long newsletter here all I will say is this.

You can get top positions in Google FREE if your not lazy, Did you ever here of work and research? Im not talking about just pushing a button and getting to the top.

I currently have 23 websites in the top 10 of Google most of them are in the top 3 positions I did this without spending a dime but I did put a lot of time in this.

And speaking of search engines everyone is on this Google kick and that damm page rank yes its true that Google is at the top now but to tell you the truth I get as much traffic from Altavista MSN and a few others.

As far as page rank goes if you think you need a high page rank to place in the top ten your WRONG there are many factors into ranking a website page rank is just one of them.

All the poor babys out there that were using cloaking and lots of other ways to get to the top (And some still are) well if your site was removed from the search engines you deserved it end of story.

Ever here of link popularity and site popularity? and thats another thing sure its true if you have lots of QUAILTY RELATED links going to your website it helps your ranking.

But the main purpose of links is free advertising pure and simple page rank is partly a by product from links.

If you want high rankings in Google get off your butt and get to work if you do not know how to do it hire someone who does.

James Mackinlay
JRM Website Marketing

janeth

12-12-2003, 09:56 PM

jimmack

Very well written I agree

trsiyengar

12-12-2003, 10:28 PM

I totally disagree with your point of comments. My own experience is otherwise. You may try search the following key words in Google, find my page on the top ten or even top one in seach; try Srivaishnavam, Hindu practices, Newly Sex, newly wed couples or newly sex method. These are the key words people searching and landing in my site. You will surely find me on the top ten order or even in the first listed one! To be frank with you, I have not paid a single penny to google, yet my web site stands tall among top ten. Let there be some fair judgement while commenting on subjects that is vastly read by all of us in this webProWorld site.
Best wishes,
trsiyengar
Dec. 13, 2003
[url]http://trsiyengar.tripod.com/

janeth

12-12-2003, 10:35 PM

Hi trsiyengar

I'm talking about for popular key words.
The less popular key words are not hard to get at all.

trsiyengar

12-12-2003, 10:47 PM

Hi Janeth,
I agree. But when hundreds of websites added every hour, competing each other in a cut-throat manner competitions, still every one want to be on the top! Can you imagine, how all of them can be placed at once in the top ten or twenty order? May be, here the money works wonder! Still I believe, the popular phrases, key words and meta tags are relied to maximum extent to place the order rnking apart from popularity and hits!
Thanks for your quick response,
best wishes,
trsiyengar
Dec. 13, 2003
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com

trsiyengar

12-12-2003, 11:27 PM

Hi Janeth,
If you think "sex" is not a popular word in key word serches, then I am out from this forum itself. You know the porn sites with slush & flesh money compete each other, just to get more & more of money. They are the ones who compete more than the actual biz. sites and they bring out every novel idea to be on the top, by hook or crook! Listing top among ten lakh plus sites is definitely a good achievement; that too without paying any money. Why,you can just click this link to find what I mean. http://www.google.co.in/search?q=newly+sex&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=
This way I am not, surely not, promoting Googly but pin pointing that money alone does not play the role. I still feel that algorithms, meta tags, key words, hits and popularity plays a role to rank your site on the top. Yes, of course, the Google Dance is there to change the placement in ranking, but for different token of key words, you might get different sort of placement. Prove me if I am wrong and pardon me if I am wrong.
Best wishes,
trsiyengar
Dec. 13, 2003
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com

janeth

12-12-2003, 11:50 PM

Yes sex would be but Newly Sex would not be.

I'm not sure how many people would use that to term to find porn.

Most of the popular words are gotten with good incoming links more then anything else

acornwebworks

12-13-2003, 01:25 AM

jimmack

Very well written I agree

Actually, and I'm truly not trying to be rude, but it wasn't well-written at all. I struggled to get through the misspellings and lack of punctuation.

Just out of curiosity, I went to James' site < http://www.jrm-internet-marketing.com/ > and it was no different. Can the rest of you imagine using a website marketing service whose opening paragraph reads:

Lets face it ecommerce in today's business world is a tough road and getting your website seen is can be a real chore especially when you consider their are millions of other websites trying to do the same thing.

Your points here may be well-taken, James, but you will be far more successful in your marketing business if you have someone proofread your website.

Your credibility is severely damaged by your home page saying things like

Do you really want to know what the real secret is? THEIR IS NONE that's right there isn't no shortcuts or tricks you can use that will guarantee your success.

This is something we all should be aware of. (Yeah, I know, hanging participle.) "Guest" criticised Janeth earlier for grammatical errors, failing to note that she is in Colombia. But 'his' point is correct...if we wish to present ourselves as professionals, our websites should reflect that. They don't have to be the most beautiful websites on the face of the earth, but they should be articulate.

Guest says that the most money deserves to win. I would argue that all the money in the world won't compensate for a misspelled, inarticulate website.

If someone has to struggle to read you...they won't.

acornwebworks

12-13-2003, 01:25 AM

dmcgill

12-13-2003, 03:48 AM

[quote="acornwebworks"]

"if we wish to present ourselves as professionals, our websites should reflect that. They don't have to be the most beautiful websites on the face of the earth, but they should be articulate."

MMMmm,
The best salesman I ever knew was a person who had grade 8 as his highest grade in school. His handwriting was almost un-readable, and his english was very poor. But my goodness, he was a salesman, who if you went in to buy a suit, you would walk out of his store with a hat, matching socks, a belt and new shoes!
I disagree that the websites must be written in the Queens English. If you were selling text books maybe or an education program but I personally think if you write your story board like you would be talking it, especially in a newsletter like the one we are talking about, I want to hear it like someone would be speaking to me. Personally, I think James's readership must agree cause his numbers are pretty good. I know because you can read his newsletter on one of my websites as well and I see the stats!!
dmcgill

excell

12-13-2003, 08:13 AM

The people that work hard deserve to win. Money has nothing to do with who should win and who should loose.
Janeth - it would depend very much on the type of work ethics involved, in all this hard work - especially in the search arena. If a person works very hard at spamming, tricking and deception, should they win and gain top rankings for their efforts - for free - with no money?

Wouldn't that be just as bad as seeing the guy with the deep pockets & no scruples win out over the honest little guy?

janeth

12-13-2003, 08:18 AM

excell
It does seem that you are spending your day going behind every post I make and trying to find some type of a problem with it.

If you have a problem with me just say so

I'm sure everyone knew what I was talking about.

excell

12-13-2003, 08:37 AM

So far the thread covers fairness on a comparison with 'hard work' and 'money', my feeling is that there is more to the question than that and wonder what you think? Do ethics enter into the question of what is fair?

janeth

12-13-2003, 08:45 AM

You would have to define ethics

Let me say this if Yahoo says which they have that I should only have one web site.

Because in the past I have had problems with different host I want to have 20 web sites so if one goes down I still have my other ones online.

If I'm then ranked 1 for my web sites you could say this is not right becuase I have more then one web site.

Or if I find out that I get a lot of customers because of links so I work hard to get links you could say that is not right because Google says I'm trying to trick them.

So who's ethics are we going by

excell

12-13-2003, 09:18 AM

Everyone has their own and at the end of the day must live with them.

I just think that when weighing up the google question of "what is fair" there is more to it than yelping because it seems that a seperation between commercial & informational sites is the way they seem to want go... and the little hard working guy cannot afford it and is losing etc. etc.

The what is right and what is fair question is a little broader IMO...

This is a popular forum and google is a popular topic (currently, hey, they could be gone tomorrow)

I am not saying that you personally have appeared to complain, but in general I am wondering what we are talking about here, really...

It could be considered that SPAM as defined by the search engines and deceptive practices in general are a "black hat" way in the field and some may work very hard at it, therefore, all I am asking in light of this thread - do they deserve to win more than either the guy with the bucks or the "white hat" clean sites that abide by known rules, common business ethics and integrity of presentation?

janeth

12-13-2003, 09:46 AM

Hi excell
I will go ahead and make everyone mad.

According to Google a white hat is a guy that builds his site for his customers and sits down and waits.

A black hat is the guy that changes his meta tags watches the site checks his ranking gets links changes text

Even though he is still making it good for the customer he is watching Google and making changes to get a head this makes him a black hat does he deserve to win.

Yes he is trying to win he should win

Do I care what changes Google makes? no
It is just a game to me I like trying to stay ahead in Google and no matter what they change I will figure out away around it.

Do I talk about it a lot yes I do I think the best way to figure out what Google, Yahoo and MSN are doing is put your thoughts down and listen to what everyone else thinks.

excell

12-13-2003, 10:16 AM

OK.. that's good answering :) so, it doesn't really matter and it's just a game for you, personally... you have been at this game for -- errm 8 months?

and you are doing fine and as long as you can continue to get what you want you will be happy...regardless of the methods you are forced to employ to get there? - top ten rankings under multiple search terms in the search engines.. in particular Google at this time, because it brings you the most traffic.

Well then, I guess I will get to my bottom line of my point in responding to your posts here where you are a moderator Janeth.

What I am finding is that you are very vocal with your advice and that is good - you are after all a trusted source of information according to popular perceptions of forum heirachy.. however.. on close review of your web site (that you talk about and point to so often) I feel that your wisdom may be great for the short term punters (if they were to follow your example, as seen on your web site and in caches of your website).

But not necessarily for those that want to enter the arena and succeed for the long term - that seems a little sad really, because for some of us out there, we are here for the long term and for new folks or those trying to decide what to do with their web sites it is possible that they may want long term success without stigma attached as an option.

Search engines will always come and go and it is the duck that paddles on reqardless that is the winner, IMO.

Now I have made you mad :) but I wanted to make a comment about how people should look closely at what they are doing, how they are coming across and my main point is that if there is anything that doesn't look quite right - to consider their reputation.

Outside of what we do to gain positioning, how do potential clients see us? How do our peers see us? Are these questions not equally as important as to how search engine robots might see us?

I say our web presence is best to be as consistently transparent as possible if long term success on the web is to be achieved.

</rant>

What do others think? Am I full of hot air? Does it matter? or not?

janeth

12-13-2003, 10:26 AM

Hi excell,

You have been trying me for a long time it is no surprise what you think of me and I really could care less.

I'm here for the long term not the short as I said before my site will always rank in the top no matter what changes Google makes.

As far as you looking at my web site that is not a problem.

I'm not scared to list my site like you seem to be.

But do not misunderstand my business and my web site is here for the long run not the short.

excell

12-13-2003, 10:33 AM

lol.. I am scared to list my business for one reason only and that is that we have closed off for new clients until late 2004, last thing I want is folks trying to get me to work for them..

But seeing as you do free work then I will send them to you! Excellent resolution I say. :)

excell

12-13-2003, 10:36 AM

PS, Janeth, I didn't mean it as personally as you are taking it, but on an open forum when folks are trying to work out what to do, there are probably more questions to ask than a few - if you know what I mean.

janeth

12-13-2003, 10:37 AM

Now I have herd it all

I do not list my site because I'm so great and famous that the people will go crazy at trying to get me to work for them.

My site looks so good we do not list it anywhere

janeth

12-13-2003, 10:43 AM

excell

I think about half the post you have made on this forum or at lest the last post have been after I have said something

You have been wanting to say something for quite some time

you hide your on site and point in the air at my site and point to nothing saying I see the problem with out any detail.

I can say I see the samething on your site you have said nothing but yet feel like you have said something

excell

12-13-2003, 10:50 AM

Yup.. sorry about that, I guess I am just having trouble with your posts at this time because I cannot find anywhere on your web site any information about how to get what you say you offer...

If you want to know anything about me you could pm me for my URL..

anyways, I am off to bed :)

One last comment on the google issue though - I will be damned if I will change a stroke of what I do on a website to pander to a search engine's whims and fancies!

minstrel

12-13-2003, 10:53 AM

A black hat is the guy that changes his meta tags watches the site checks his ranking gets links changes text. Even though he is still making it good for the customer he is watching Google and making changes to get a head this makes him a black hat does he deserve to win. Yes he is trying to win he should win..
I don't think I can agree with that - it's not the fact that he is "making changes to get ahead" that makes him a black hat in Google's eyes - it's that he is manipulating the system to try to gain an unfair advantage over other websites that are obeying the rules.

I'm standing in a line, waiting my turn along with other people, and some bozo barges up to the front and wants to cut in. "He is trying to win" and by your arguments "he should win"... not by my understanding of fairness, he shouldn't: he should get his butt bounced back to the end of the line.

Most criminals are "trying to win" too, and in the same ways... by bending or breaking the rules. I can't agree that because they are motivated to be rich at my expense they should be allowed to win.

janeth

12-13-2003, 10:55 AM

Hi excell
There are over 100 pages on my site that tell how to do it yourself and what we do.

Mybe I should add 101 for you what would you like it to say.

I did PM you but I'm sure you will not answer back with your web site address.

Last but not lest I'm sure your customers will be very happy that you will not change anything in the design for there web sites to help them rank good with Google.

But then you have so many what do you care about what they think

janeth

12-13-2003, 11:01 AM

I think I was talking about keeping up with Google and making changes to stay ahead not breaking in line but looking to see which line is moving the fastest

excell

12-13-2003, 11:02 AM

not sure where to look to see about PM here?

Errm.. no, it's not me that does marketing for free, it's YOU!

Anyway night now..

my URL is {successfully delivered via PM - found it!}
or you could find me under a search for

search engine spam

on google if you like... I am sure by posting that no-one will chase me, because I have already said we are not available, so there you go..I've broken my rules just for you :)

I'm not trying to win any arguements here, just trying to say we should take care if we truely want to play long term..

now, that's it.. night all!

janeth

12-13-2003, 11:04 AM

I will be here long term you do not need to worry about me or my customers.

janeth

12-13-2003, 11:29 AM

Hi excell

I went threw your website I can see nothing different from what you do and what I do.

So, and I would like to point out that you found nothing that you ever showed other then just you saying my ethics where no good.

If my web site is not long term neither is yours because you do the same things I do.

I think if people take time to read everything you said the real problem is me giving free advice, how many times did you mention the fact that I do things for free as if that is a sin or something.

excell

12-13-2003, 11:41 AM

I think the core of the issue might be in how you are presenting...
look at you main working title & description.

I am not going to spell it out here, but to me it is seemingly deceptive as I could find no where on your web site that offered me what you are saying, or promoting or parading.

Do a phrase search on the 3rd sentance on your most repeated description.. can you DO that? is it true? is it real? where can I find it?

Look at how the world sees it?

Do I offer anything like that.. ? I don't think so :)

compare it from an outside view and that is all I am saying - not to attack you, but for folks to tread carefully.. consider what you say and do. who you follow.

janeth

12-13-2003, 11:56 AM

I'm at a lost, here are my meta tags

<title>Custom web design, web marketing and search engine optimization.</title>
<meta NAME="Description" CONTENT="Out of the box custom web design,web marketing and search engine optimization.">
<meta NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="custom web design,web marketing,search engine optimization.">

Which one bothers you because I do them all and I follow no one.

Also here are yours looks like we do the same thing as a matter of fact if you look over the topic it looks to me like the thing that really bothers you is I do things for free

<title>Australian Web Design and Search Engine Optimisation SEO Specialists NSW Australia</title>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="INDEX, FOLLOW">
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excell

12-13-2003, 12:05 PM

{deleting - unnecessary info}

acornwebworks

12-13-2003, 12:10 PM

[quote=acornwebworks]

"if we wish to present ourselves as professionals, our websites should reflect that. They don't have to be the most beautiful websites on the face of the earth, but they should be articulate."

...I disagree that the websites must be written in the Queens English. If you were selling text books maybe or an education program but I personally think if you write your story board like you would be talking it, especially in a newsletter like the one we are talking about, I want to hear it like someone would be speaking to me. Personally, I think James's readership must agree cause his numbers are pretty good. I know because you can read his newsletter on one of my websites as well and I see the stats!!
dmcgill

Please note that I didn't say it needed to be 'written in the Queen's English'...I said they need to be articulate.

And please note, I wasn't talking about a newsletter, I was talking about a website and a posting on this forum.

Unlike your salesman (who sounds very much like my late uncle), where his charisma, his friendliness, his approach made people respond to him positively in person, whatever 'charisma' websites have must be created.

I agree completely that using a 'spoken' approach is good. But if there are no commas or periods in the writing, and no person speaking to me, putting in the pauses naturally, I have to struggle trying to understand what on earth the person is saying in their writings. THAT is what I mean by being inarticulate. And, yes, I do judge the quality of the offering by the quality of the text.

Honestly, if I were to go to a bricks and mortar marketing service and they were incomprehensible, I wouldn't use them either, no matter how nice they were.

As far as having a large subscribership...there have been many posts on these and other forums from people who have large subscriberships, but lousy sales. And 'web marketing' newsletters are likely to have more subscribers than niche newsletters simply by default.

dmcgill

12-13-2003, 12:40 PM

Hi,
This thread got fairly lively last night after I closed my peepers, (I know that isn't proper english if anyone needs a definition, PM me).
There have always been two and more than likely more ways people look at the Internet and marketing on the Internet.
1. It is a place to freely trade ideas and the key word here is "freely".
2. It is the largest shopping mall in the world.

This forum is an example of the free trade of ideas and there are millions of sites out there that show how the shopping mall works.
I stongly believe that Janeth has shown good ethics and has defended them well in this thread. and excell has still not made a point as far as I can see. What could possibly be the problem with trying to understand how a search engine, (in this case Google) lists your site and what could be wrong with trying to beat Google at their own game? If that is not good business practice, so is trying to get a better price on a car or finding in-expensive ways to market your products in the real world.

I think it is fine for someone to get rich. Bill Gates did it and if you know a bit about the background, I think you will agree that he didn't always use the best business practices. Yahoo once had an iron fist on the search engine industry and now Google has the ball.

My point is this. If we don't try and keep up with the trends, we will disapear. I don't believe it is an intentional goal of Google to change its algorithms to cause websites to disapear but because the change algorithms websites do disapear unless you do have the one most sought after thing, $$!
That is upsetting to small business but in a research paper I read in a different forum, 60% of all business done on the web was done by "small" business. That small business is defigned as organizations with less than 10 employee's and in most cases home run business.

In conclusion: I would encourage all to work in what ever legal method of promotion to keep it up and one fact is, the buyer base is always growing so we should all be able to get somewhere if we try.
So do the cyberspace hand shake Janeth and Excell lol and lets all get along, but if I were going to choose a business to work for me it would have to be Janeth simply because I like the competitive spirit, the drive and her answers.
dmcgill

excell

12-13-2003, 12:53 PM

I will allow Janeth to respond to this...

:) *bow* the floor is yours madam

trsiyengar

12-13-2003, 01:03 PM

Hi Janeth,
[quote]
I will go ahead and make everyone mad
[unquote]

It seems, after reading the entire exchanges among us, what you are really doing is, oh it is with your smile!, and you are making your committed comment to true!! Bravo.

Never budge an inch.

Now for the subject, still there are people who trust selective search engines, whether small or big. You can not ignore Google, for the fact, it is now the number one and going to stand in the same position despite the competitors in the Search Engine world merging and making together. A new alliance is taking shape every now and then, yet, they are no where nearer to Google.

Please take a note of it; money will certainly play a role at one or other point. That too, when same sort of businessmen having equally powerfull, then the toss begins. It is simple logic to that extent. What about other Search Engines that they openly declare TOP Ranking for a premium?

One way, this discussions beneficial to the internet community. Yes, Google too started keenly watching this growing exchanges and now they might change a little!!!!! (mend or amend).

I shall see to it, that you are not giving up. Hats off to your stand.
trsiyengar
Dec. 13, 2003
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com
(no more bannners & popups)

excell

12-13-2003, 01:10 PM

It's a bit of a fizzer isn't it when google cannot hold to relevancy and keep it up.

The show down of the search engines will be seen in the new year and those that are playing will not be those that pander to trends and winds, rumours or flimsies.

janeth

12-13-2003, 01:23 PM

I got the problem

I now know why excell is upset at me.

As a lot of you know we did a complete redesign of our web site. When we did this we use to do web design for free or at lest the front page.

In some of my meta tags I have not had time to take the word free out. This has upset excell and I guess he thought I was trying to trick Google which was not the case at all.

I'm sure there are enough people that know me well enough to know I have no desire to get ranked for something I do not do.

Most people would have just sent an email an asked but excell felt like by doing it this way he could make me look bad.

I do hope you where able to convince people that I'm really a bad person excell and good luck in trying to cause me problems in the future.

A full page of you saying I'm such a bad person because I have not had time to change all my meta tags

excell

12-13-2003, 01:30 PM

errm.. no sorry Janeth, it is not all about YOU and that is my point.

go figure ok.

excell

12-13-2003, 01:35 PM

OK.. so I will expand on that.. the whole point is not to focus in on Janeth or her web site..

but to take a larger glimpse of the picture, how does the world perceive YOU? are you consistently clear in your message? If you have been outsted by the latest ridiculous rankingings in google ..

can you see anything wrong?

If not then DON'T CHANGE a thing!

If for any reason someone is yo-yoing then look at their web site and measure your own in light with what you are telling the marketplace about you.

janeth

12-13-2003, 01:38 PM

I agree trsiyengar,
I think when it is all over Google will still be #1 but not by the amount they are now.

I think Google has seen there biggest years and now there just going to be holding on.

janeth

12-13-2003, 01:41 PM

excell
I have enough friends and enough people that I talk to that I do not have to go around attacking other people.

Maybe you should find something else to do I have grown tired of this game with you.

excell

12-13-2003, 01:43 PM

ermm.. yup.. you found a problem
you are fixing it, you have no thanks and you can make me disapear?

Is that what you want to say really?

janeth

12-13-2003, 01:49 PM

excell
To start with I can not make you disapear

I think your a smart guy and enjoy talking with you just not when your attacking my site.

You pointed out a problem I already knew about in away to try and make me look bad.

Do you think I should say thank you.

There is a joke in there some where about a sheep hearder a dog and a consultant

I do not want to fight with you what your talking about is something a lot of people know about so it is nothing new.

excell

12-13-2003, 01:59 PM

So, then .. In light of the current google re-shuffle it will be truely interesting to watch your web site as a case model as you continue to "de-optimize" and blaze out as a fore runner in how it should be done,

It's always great to watch a mover & shaker like that and track exactly what is going on and why.

Thanks for sharing so much of what you do, it's great to watch.

janeth

12-13-2003, 02:03 PM

excell we lost our ranking and we got it back.

If Google makes other changes I will also make changes.

I think that you feel like I should sit and wait and for how long do you think I should wait?

It took me a week to get my ranking back.

I think it was a good move on my part. You act as if you have some inside track to Google in an email you sent me you went as far to say you could not say what Google is about to do.

trsiyengar

12-13-2003, 02:14 PM

No one can be accused of Good and Bad for the circumstances they involved in. In this forum, Please, Please, no name calling.

Competition is good & healthy that brings development to the clients overall satisfaction. Pricing is not the only creteria. A novel idea, a personal and dedicated service one provides, above all good manners and eticacy that is shown to them which ends in good and fair development. The dediction is the kewy word.

Janeth is not taken as bad as some one might accuse. Err is to human. Still you have enough time to change your tags. But surely it might disturb your ranking. It may not be with Google, but all other Search Engines will surely slide you down, for the changes you make now. EVEN IF YOU PAY ANY HEFTY SUM, Janeth, you will not get your status quo, because the fortnightly crawling web robot might miss you.

Do you realize now, where you stand? Money? Hard work? Oh, both you lost now, if you change your TAGS!!

Don't you agree on this point with your last posting? Just only because you failed remove the word "free" you got into trouble. Poor guy Excell! He has to bow and say 'the land is yours'.

I read often some X,Y,Z is tying up with this and that Search Engine group, still they can not compete Google, atleast as of now, only because Google has grown larger than life size. (Who knows, they might vanish in the snow some day).

Please accept one thing. If equal number of competitors with equally having the money & muscle power, and if this happens to be in multiple, then whom you will chose on the top?? Alphapetically it might work okay, but page ranking wise how this can be done?

You pay a premium, you will be placed in 300 Search Engine and the ranking with them will never be always the same. Reason? The size of their data postings are fewer than what Google does. Yes, this I have seen practically - When yahoo returns with total one million entries for a single popular key word search, MSN gives only half of it. And Rediff ? Still less. Wherein Google posts the return with Seven million.

When the size grows, the small and medium biz. are out in the wild. That's why many medium sized organizations are favouring the smaller search engines. And that's how the other medium sized and smaller sized Search Engines are surviving.

Aware of this, once the other search Engine too grows to the size of Google, then there too would, $$$ & Money & $$$ only be playing a role. This is what ultimately going to happen. So why single out Google alone???

It may not be to your liking. But do you know the fact that the data bank of Google has five times more than that of collectively held by its second line competitors. If E'x'cell retires, then some Y, Z will come into the picture!

Best of Luck, Janeth,
trsiyengar
Dec. 14, 2003
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com

excell

12-13-2003, 02:16 PM

Janeth, I am not out to de-throne you, you are SO wonderful and yet all I am implying is to watch out for WHY you sit there, be careful what you advise, if you are going to repeatedly use YOUR web site as a golden example then obviously you are quite pre-pared for the chook examination that would be eventually given you..

do you pass?

do you care?

As far as my private messages to you go, feel free to publish them if you think you need to.. hey! LOL

janeth

12-13-2003, 02:24 PM

Hi trsiyengar

Changing the meta tags will move me up in ranking not down.

Right now the new content does not match the old tags. By changing those tags I will move up.

I have just not taken the time to do it yet.

excell

12-13-2003, 02:26 PM

Poor guy Excell! He has to bow and say 'the land is yours'.
LOL.. that was my gesture to Janeth to make a proud come back into the forums after I had explained to her the exact problem via PM.. but that path was obviously not chosen.

Sorry that my gesture, my comments and my alert have been so un-apprieciated. That's life *shrug*

janeth

12-13-2003, 02:27 PM

Excell,
You claim to have an inside with Google and know what no one else knows that was in the email you sent me.

But on Google's web site they say do not trust anyone that say's this because it is untrue.

I have never claimed to be on a throne I have never never said I had the perfect web site. As a matter of fact I would love to see where you saw me say that.

excell

12-13-2003, 02:42 PM

Janeth, I am not quite sure what is with you, all I know is that in my general observation of forums that you were very vocal about the current google situation, what you did, how you fared and etc and what I found on your web site gave me cause enough to think.. we are not taking do-optimization here.. we are talking de-spamming...

and you have a long way to go before that is achieved IMO.

Not only that but your current web presense looks fraudulent with the claims of services i.e. FREE that you do not offer.

In our subsequent PMs I pointed out the exact problem and you are most welcome to share that in context with your forum...

but, let it be known, I have never sent you an e-mail and neither would I wish to.

I also offered for you to take to floor and clear this up but you declined to do that.. instead you seem to have some sort of problem with taking critizism...

janeth

12-13-2003, 02:50 PM

excell
I'm finished talking with you. You are talking about an old meta tag on a page inside my web site with the word free in it.

I have explained this to you.

I can not help you any more and I will not be draged into this game with you.

I will not answer any more of you post

excell

12-13-2003, 02:57 PM

LOL and here is a lady that wants to talk google.. :)

that old thing is pulling hatchets on you.. you might not want to talk to me and that is fine, but take a look outside yourself and see what the world sees.

Quite funny really isn't it.

minstrel

12-13-2003, 03:14 PM

Quite funny really isn't it.
I can see that it is to you, excell, but believe me it isn't to anyone else.

The fact that you posted a message identifying that your complaint was about a meta tag containing the word "free" and then returned a few minutes later to edit it saying "too much information" I think is sufficient proof that your interest here has to do with baiting another member, not helping anyone.

This is an unmoderated forum - unfortunately in the case of this thread, since, if it were an option I would have locked it a long time ago.

Now I suggest you give it up - find something else to do or someone else to bait if you must but just give it up here, okay?

trsiyengar

12-13-2003, 03:17 PM

Hi Jane,

What happened to my querrry? Please tell me if four Guys of Same Status, position, same biz. equally rich whom will you favour to the top slot? All are hard working in their respective field. What then will you do? All the things happening tremendously just because the world has shrunk so small but net and web grown wider!

Now you please tell me whom you will you favour to the top slot? The one with pot belly and money? The one with nothing but brain? Or the one with muscle mostache? Or the one who is left nothing but honesty?

The problem has grown to this extent only just because of Google has grown larger than life size. The result will be the same for other search engines too if they grow once, to the extent of Google. It is the entire world that is to be covered. Not just only Colombia and surroundings. The web is spun wider than the populace. How many millions of words needed to build a search Engine? Did you ever thought on this angle?

Come on, up up my friend, see the fact rather than just go on getting endless words to keep on you own idea. All are equal, but as G.BernardShaw said, some are more equal!
Best wishes,
trsiyengar
Dec. 14, 2003
-------------

And this bit of cake is for Excell:

Man, when some private exchanges were made while discussing in the forum, that info never comes to the notice of other members. Hence the comment. I never said you were knealing under your feet, let the fact be fact, as you once uttered it in the forum and it is there for all to see. No mud slinging. I am sorry it hurt you. And seek your pardon too.
trsiyengar
Dec. 14, 2003
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com/
(it is a no naunces site)
--

excell

12-13-2003, 03:18 PM

I edited my messages after I was able to successfully deliver them via pm. sorry if my edit to protect was seen as different

minstrel

12-13-2003, 03:26 PM

trsiyengar - see my message to excell above.

Again, both of you, please give it up.

felicity1127

12-13-2003, 05:16 PM

I don't understand why some people want to be so critical of other people on the forums. This should be a place where we can come and discuss things and ask the experts for advise and help each other out, not a place to be mean to others. I know Janeth. She is a very kind person who is always willing to help others, even though she is extremely busy herself. She has helped me so much with my web design busiess. I could never thank her enough. She gives so much to this forum. I know she puts in a lot of time here trying to help others. Patti

felicity1127

12-13-2003, 05:23 PM

Janeth does great work and runs a good business. I learn so much here. There are many good people on the forums. Let's keep it that way. Patti

felicity1127

12-13-2003, 05:32 PM

Sorry about this being repeated. I had a hard time getting the first topic posted. I did'nt think it went through. Patti

mysticlighthouse

12-13-2003, 08:43 PM

felicity1127,

I totally agree with you. This forum should be a place where people feel safe to openly share their opinions while respecting those around them. I assure you that the majority of posters here at Web Pro World are kind and looking to help people out. But as in anything, you do have a few bad apples now and then. Hopefully those that rudely post will get it out of their systems and remember that they are actually communicating to human beings on the other end of the keyboard.

Galatians 6:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Galatians+6%3A7&x=0&y=0&NIV_version=yes&language=english)

rocky1

12-13-2003, 09:19 PM

As for excell, his intent has been clearly evident since the initial posts, and that is quite simply to antagonize another member of this Forum. Further in having just read the entire four pages of rhetoric herein, I am truly amazed at how trsiyengar's English improved in just a matter of one or two pages!

It is clearly obvious that both of you are frauds, and that neither of you has any intent in this thread except to harrass an esteemed member of this forum. In that said offense is grounds for having you both permantly barred from the forum, I'm going to suggest that Minstrel recommend exactly that action to the administrators of this forum ASAP. And I too will be putting in my two cents worth to management.

If you guys spent half as much time working on your search engine ranking, as you have here harrassing Janeth, you wouldn't have to ask questions in respect to search engine ranking, nor would you have so much time to sit here and bother her. Why don't you guys grow up, and get a life!

Rocky

excell

12-13-2003, 09:46 PM

My apologies for appearing so antogonistic folks! I guess the thing is - With the google upheavel, as people look at what is going on and what to do about it, it should be known that caution should be taken if "de-optimising".

If what you are doing with your web site is good, follows sound web standards and provides great information for your target market, then don't be too hasty to change it.

I know full well that Janeth is of excellent character and is an asset to the forums. She also has a great web site and service :) However, with so many pages out there advertising a service no longer provided, it is good to change it to reflect the current info (regardless of Google algos).

The little problem of erroneous headers is hardly "black hat" but I was just trying to say, what about all the real SPAM out there... (not talking about Janeth's site now). I don't consider that someone using deceptive means deserves to have great rankings in the SEs above the ones that pay and the ones that have more standardised pages.

As for Google's current results, they are so absurd that I'm just ignoring them and searching elsewhere, because I simply cannot find what I want there at the moment. :)

dmcgill

12-13-2003, 10:20 PM

I have been a member of this forum for a long time, there were only a few hundren members when I joined. I have never been so happy to see a discussion over.
I love free speach but when it gets as personal as it did today, it doesn't do a thing. Enough said!
Have a great rest of the weekend folds.
dmcgill

rocky1

12-13-2003, 10:39 PM

Regardless excell that doesn't excuse the fact that you spent the better part of three pages being antagonistic, rather than simply saying what you just said.

It is well known on this forum that Janeth's website has just recently undergone major overhaul. As she pointed out, there are hundred of pages therein, and 10 employees working on that project, I'm sure, in between other paying projects. Simply stating, "Hey Janeth, it appears one of the employees must have missed a keyword change, if you're no longer offering free pages to your clients", in a polite and helpful manner would have sufficed. Instead you elected to harrass her endlessly for no reason. There is no excuse for that!

If you show this manner of disrespect for the Moderators of this forum, why should administration consider allowing you even the slightest benefit of doubt in assuming that you will respect the rights of other members of this forum in the future. If I had a say in this matter your membership would be terminated over this incidence immediately. Your actions gentlemen were both intolerable and inexcusable.

Were I either of you, and I enjoyed the time I spent on this forum, I would think very seriously about offering my heart felt apologies to Janeth, openly in this thread, in hopes that administration thought highly of those actions on your part and allowed you to continue being a member of this forum.

Rocky

excell

12-14-2003, 12:05 AM

Of course I apologise to Janeth for pinpointing a prob.. I now know she was already fully aware of :)

I guess it's a thing with all the hooplah, and folks trying to weigh up what needs doing, a good thing to have seen that any tidy ups and improvements on our sites can only make them better!

A big site like Janeth's will most definately re-main strong and valuable because of the amount of work and info in it - doesn't matter what the whim of the algos might be. *thumbs up* to it.. it will be a great example of quality once the dup headers disappear!

Also, just incase it might help - I would say not to over de-optimise, especially in the title tags, they should still be what the page is about with the key phrases from it.

dmcgill

12-14-2003, 02:22 AM

excell,
I don't think that was really enough but it is a good start. Being honest and pointing out a mistake is one thing but making an claims that she was spamming, and not being honest about her promotion of her site was uncalled for. I hope this is over and I would agree that if I were a owner of this forum, you would be banned. Janeth was one of the first persons to look at my sites and give me some very helpfull ideas. I went from 7000 unique visitors to 24,000 in a matter of a month after making the changes she suggested. I am proud to know her through this forum and sponsor her site as best as I can. From now on, if they let you stay in the forum, please refrain from critical remarks and try make only constructive critisism.
dmcgill

excell

12-14-2003, 02:59 AM

Yup dmcgill,
these type of forums are great for getting help and I have no doubt about Janeth's character and helpfulness, I've noticed ever since I have been coming here.

However, it remains that there are mega heaps of pages out there boosting a few search terms to the top for the web site on a service that is no longer provided... not that she has to justify herself to anyone at all, but she has clearly indicated that it's all being mopped up and that she is working with numerous problems (such as language barriers)..

It's an honest mistake for sure, however - can anyone at all see that there are others that may not be quiet as honest that would do this type of thing to gain ranking in a totally deceptive fashion?

If we step away from personalities for a moment, that was all I was trying to say... should they "deserve" the high ranking for the terms?

The forum owner is welcome to ban me - that's no problem at all, but it's probably the best to be a little more objective and a little less defensive in my opinion...you all appear to be mature adults around here. :)

janeth

12-14-2003, 08:09 AM

There are over 100 things that Google looks at when ranking a site.

A title tag is one of those things but is not the only thing.

I would thing that anyone doing SEO would know that a title tag alone is not going to get you ranked for a key word.

It takes a lot more then that.

I wish it was as simple as just a title tag.

excell

12-14-2003, 10:03 AM

Very true Janeth, but when we add the linkback anchor tags etc.. the context of surrounding descriptions and the site content of the links... it can be embarrassing at times..
if they are not reflective of the core of our site.. or where done in haste or whatever. It's especially embarrassing if you are prone to typos like me!

It's what the outside world sees that is sometimes more important to perception than where we rank in search engines.

Anyways.. that wasn't my point really now that we have worked through that my fears where wrong! and that you were not intentionally rigging your site for untruth etc. :)

I'm feeling very positive about the way the search industry is going and really looking forward to seeing new engines rise up (or attempt to) in 2004!

If Google continues to lose popularity (as they are currently doing - at least with me) and cannot improve/fix what is broken, it's going to be an interesting time indeedy.

acornwebworks

12-14-2003, 11:20 AM

What happened to my querrry? Please tell me if four Guys of Same Status, position, same biz. equally rich whom will you favour to the top slot? All are hard working in their respective field. What then will you do?

This is one of those 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin' questions. There's no point in trying to answer it.

In your question, trsiyengar, what difference does it make if they have your 4 qualities identically? Those qualities don't exist in a vaccuum. One person may decide to spend more money on advertising. Another may decide to spend it on R&D.
Yet another may decide to buy another company and go for the long-term with that merger. One may have gone to high school with Bill Gates and been tight friends. One may have gone to high school with me...poor them :-) One and on and on and on...life is variables, and countless numbers of variables go into making each and every one of us the truly unique person we are with the truly unique experiences and opportunities we have.

There will never be absolutely identical companies, so there's no point in trying to 'answer' your question. There will never be absolutely identical submission of absolutely identical websites by absolutely identical people either.

By the way, the number of angels is 11. Or was it 18,205? Or was it 'angels don't dance on pins - there's no point to it' :-)

trsiyengar

12-14-2003, 01:21 PM

I conclude my arguments (of course from my end only!) and offer an unconditional & sincere apologies - not only to Janeth, but also to other members, who might have felt my postings as an offence. It is an open forum and let every member know that I put this words from my heart and mind at once.

I never indulged in mudslinging or name calling. On the contrary, I requested other offending member to be cautions while discussing in this public forum.

But what pains me more is, Rocky1 branding me not only as fraud, but accuses me of harrassing another member! When Minstrel told me to stop - I did comply. I never wrote again, though I had many valid points to post. Then why I am compared - By Rocky1 - with Excell, who is a competitor of another member and has a need to challenge.

I never used any unpolite words, phrase or comments. I never commented on any individual's single personal matter or for that matter about Janeth's web site and her professional skills as web master. It was all a matter of discussion on the thread, my querry was only one angle - When money plays a big role every where; and with every other search engine, why single out Google?

Members can correct me, guide me if at all I erred in my postings. What prompted me to write over and again is the very interesting sentence, that Rocky might have missed by an oversight.

Janeth wrote:
"I will go out and make everyone mad"

But I never got mad. No, I will never. I am a balanced person with a very practical approach in my life. It was just an argument over a discussion on a thread. That's all. I will be the last person to bring any disrepute to the forum. I am always polite, frank and honest. I never hurt anyone with unpolite or harsh words.

I never sent any private messages or E-mails to Janeth. Nor I tried to harass her in any other mode. Still I am blamed. Why? Is it because I happened to reply to her each and every message/replies, immediately after she posted? I presume, this might be the only cause to annoy others.

I am thankful to Rocky for his compliments - about the improvement in my writings/language. Thanks again, just because I watch and read every postings, very carefully, I try to learn the art of writing!

And about banning me from the forum it-self - now I request the moderator and members to go through my postings once again and see where did I err/intend to harrass another member. Evidently, you will find from my postings, I apologized with Excell too, for a comment made by me therein, without knowing about the PM between two members, which the other members were not enlightened in the forum. (about the PM & their discussions.)

Let every member be a judge. Best wishes to one and all,
trsiyengar
http://trsiyengar.tripod.com

jybwatson

12-14-2003, 03:33 PM

I have found in life that those with the most money ussually got it in an unfair practice.

The sad thing here is that I felt Google had become the best search engine out there becuase of the way they did business, now they will make alot of money but soon fall to the side like all of the others have.

I have, in my opinion, one of the best sites for incense made in the USA out there. I have spent a small fortune on PPC, but due to minimums they have all made it got to the point the PPC makes more per sale than I did. So now they will rob the others until they go broke not thinking of the future, customer or the searcher.

Who wins? The ones that don't care for people, only themselves. Why? becuase people pay for it.

I have been tought that the only thing I get to take with me when it's all over is the person I was here in this life, all else doesn't count. Sorry for the ranting.

Dmcgill[/quote]

But if whoever your clients are decided that it was only "fair" to be "democratic" with their spending, how would you be able to prosper? You couldn't. They'd spend with others and with you, regardless of whether or not you were better.

Google is no different. It's not a democracy. They deserve to be able to charge for adwords and ranking positions and anything else they want. This isn't a college campus. It's business. And those with enough money to spend on Google have every right to prosper by virtue of it being an asset they paid for and turned into revenue.

Notice that I said in my original post that the assumption is, given equal products and equal skillsets, money can and should be the tie breaker. But where a smaller company makes a better product (with less money), OF COURSE they deserve to win. That's what I did. I started with one person (me) and grew my company to 150 people and $25M in revenues and $6M in profit -- with no outside capital, no debt, and no dilution of my stock. I did it by beating much bigger companies. They had money and they had every right to try to use it to stop me. But they didn't do it well. So no, I'm not from some big company that puts out a crappy product. I outmaneuvered the big guys. But there was nothing "unfair" about them trying to use their money -- whether by big ad budgets or hiring lawyers to sue me.[/quote]

minstrel

12-14-2003, 03:51 PM

I never indulged in mudslinging or name calling. On the contrary, I requested other offending member to be cautions while discussing in this public forum... When Minstrel told me to stop - I did comply... Then why I am compared with Excell, who is a competitor of another member and has a need to challenge.
You are correct, trsiyengar. When I asked you to let the subject be, you did indeed comply immediately and I thank you for that - the discussion was beyond out of control and it was essential that it not escalate any further.

I do not compare you with nor put you in the same category as excell and I have no intention of seeking to have you banned from the WebProWorld forums.

I would just remind everyone here that, on joining WebProWorld, you agreed to abide by the basic WebProWorld Forum Rules (http://www.webproworld.com/rules.html), which require all members to be tolerant of the opinions of others and to express our views and opinions in a way that is courteous, tolerant, and respectful of other members at all times.

ivr

12-14-2003, 06:49 PM

Money...........I am in the top 5 of most search engines with my Web directory
Number 2 on Google under Warragul and have a good listing under warragul maps
http://www.warragul.au.bz and have never paid a cent.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jimmack

12-15-2003, 11:03 PM

Dumb me is going to tell how to get a website into Google almost instantly (Did I spell that right?)

Build a simple website thats related to the website you want indexed into Google but mispell LOL your keywords and keywords in the title etc..

Here is a example Increese traffic there is 14 webssites under that search term in Google right now.

Ok once your there add the link of the website you really want Google to pick up and after the site you want on Google is piced up drop the missspelled website from your host.

AND BINGO YOUR IN GOOGLE.

Not bad coming from someone who can't spell.

James Mackinlay
JRM Website Marketing

jimmack

12-15-2003, 11:05 PM

rocky1

12-16-2003, 02:15 AM

Trsiyengar,

No I did not miss that post on Janeth's part, nor did I miss your having quoted it in your post shortly thereafter. Janeth inferred only, that in repeating Googles stated position, that she would make others mad. She did not imply that she intended personally angering anyone. If in fact you were not angered, as you state, your argument of this point would however appear moot.

I likewise did not miss your initial post, where the subject matter, although very possibly presented in all honesty, was at best very questionable given the attitude of the forum upon your entry. (I refer to "Guest's" argument with Janeth immediately followed by excell's harrassment of her.) And, at that point, it appeared to me, that the subject matter you offered was presented in attempt to embarras her, and place her at a disadvantage in the debate. Given the circumstances at hand upon your entering the discussion, it made you appear to be part of a joint effort to discredit Janeth.

I did not miss the following comments on your behalf either, wherein the opening line appears to defend Janeth, and all else thereafter appears to assume excell's position in the debate ~

Janeth is not taken as bad as some one might accuse. Err is to human. Still you have enough time to change your tags. But surely it might disturb your ranking. It may not be with Google, but all other Search Engines will surely slide you down, for the changes you make now. EVEN IF YOU PAY ANY HEFTY SUM, Janeth, you will not get your status quo, because the fortnightly crawling web robot might miss you.

Do you realize now, where you stand? Money? Hard work? Oh, both you lost now, if you change your TAGS!!

Don't you agree on this point with your last posting? Just only because you failed remove the word "free" you got into trouble. Poor guy Excell! He has to bow and say 'the land is yours'.

Whereas excell's intent, was quite obviously not just, these comments on your part cast doubt upon your credibility in the debate as well. The fact that you were asked by a moderator to quit posting, following your next post an hour later, indicates he too felt there was a problem of some nature with your posts, at the time. Thereafter, the general consensus of the thread, indicates that your and excell's attitudes and comments herein, were not appreciated, by many!

Your apology to Janeth appears very sincere, and I am quite certain that it was very much appreciated on her part. I too appreciate your apology to her, as I hold her in the highest esteem. It is quite unfortunate that the discussion digressed to the point it did.

If your intent throughout this thread was as pure and honest as you state, you likewise have my deepest apologies. Unfortunately, given the context of this thread, they did not necessarily appear so, at the time of my earlier post, which gave cause to the allegations I made.

Rocky

trsiyengar

12-17-2003, 01:26 PM

Rocky1,

I now clearly understand why this thread's discussion went to such an extent of displeasure. Had there not been the postings of mine placed immediately after the controversial argument of other person, certainly I would have got some good edge. Sincerely I apologize once again. I am surely here to adhere & honor the forum's guidelines.

At one point, I was afraid, because just I gave a google page-ranking link (Google, placing my site, on the first among about 1,040,000 sites. My web site is not at all as it apprear to be in Google Search of key word, but few words mingled with it - the article on Gender selection method - otherwise my site is of all about Hinduism/religion!). I thought, the key word used for the search might have annoyed Janeth, or anyone who took part in the thread & discussions. I am relieved it was not the cause! Now I realize the mistake in posting alongside of the other one.

I do really appreciate Janeth, No doubt she has an excellent caliber and I, alike all of others, hold her in highest esteem in this forum. I never had any personal grudge against anyone. As assured, I am not picking the thread for discussion from my end, though I have some valid newfound reasons to continue.

Thanking you once again. And Thanks to Minstrel too, for permitting me to continue in these forums. For the stated clarifications by you, I should seek the apology and not you. I am, surely not a fraud, nor I deserve these comments. I am always, fully in control of my emotions, and never give vent for anger, that too in a public forum! I did begin, and now end it, with a good note.
Best wishes to one and all,
trsiyengar
www.trisiyengar.com