Google Apologizes - Day 3, 3:30 PM (EST)

[Garrett]

I don't have much time right now, but I do have some interesting information I'd like to share with you from the sessions I've attended today.

This just in - Google has apologized! That's right, folks. There's been a lot of anger and frustration since the Florida Updates but apparently Google understands the fact that people's businesses rely on their results. For what it's worth, Craig Nevill-Manning, Google's Senior Research Scientist, said, "I apologize for the roller coaster. We're aware that changes in the algorithm affect people's livelihoods. We don't make changes lightly." Well, at least that's good to know.

"What's with the Ups and Downs?" During the Meet the Crawlers session, a woman from Conferencecall (http://www.conferencecall.com) was clearly upset because her site is not ranking highly in google right now. She asked, "What's with the ups and downs?"

The response from Google was bland and dodgy, to say the least. The representatives said that there is a difference of relevance from engine to engine. When asked to comment specifically about Google's search relevance, they only stated that relevance is subjective and didn't really answer the question.

Who's in Charge Here? Another interesting question came from a man named Dave. Dave is the owner of http://www.ProPools.com. He asked whether he should provide info regarding pools and product research on his main website or on a separate informational site that would then lead to a sales site. This is an important question, and it provided some intriguing responses:

The Google representatives claim Google has no bias against commercial results -- which most people wouldn't buy at this point.

Jon Glick, senior manager for web search at Yahoo, said, "Keep the information within your site. We view the tactic of having separate informational and commercial sites as being 'bait and switch.'"

So you should have it all on one site? Who gave them the right to dictate the way people present online content anyway? One of the things I've come away with from this conference is that everyone is trying to call all the shots and in my opinion, it's just not right!

What do you think?

Searchers and Readers. Greg Jarboe, president and co-founder of SEO-PR, shared with me his interesting concept of search engines. We discussed the different search engine user personalities, and Greg told me he compares searchers to the readers of newspapers. Think about it - New York Times readers are going to be different from New York Post readers. They're going to have different interests, needs and wants. The same can be applied to search engines. Google users will naturally differ from Yahoo! users and MSN users... You get the general idea.

Get a Shopping Cart! Craig emphasized that the importance of putting products in Froogle is steadily increasing, but you HAVE to have a shopping cart. It's vital for anyone selling products. If you don't already have a shopping cart you can't get into Froogle right now. He promises that this will change eventually, once the algorithm gets sorted out, but it's part of a long list of things they are planning to do for Froogle. In that case, I hope you're patient! ;)

Stamping Out the Rumors. Here's something that's been discussed and debated many, many times. Someone asked Craig whether the change in Google's algorithm was put in place to drive Google Adwords sales.

(It's always funny to watch the Google representatives squirm when asked questions about their algorithm.)

Craig replied, "Oh, that's a surprising question! I never thought anyone would ask me that!" :D

After the audience was loosened up a bit, he went on, "At Google, we want to give the best results possible. In the long term we want people to keep coming back to Google. There's a high wall between our sales department and our search department. We'll be tweaking the algorithm gradually."

Hmmm... Do you folks believe his response?

Thanks for the update.... My only comment and yes it's from the peanut gallery...

Def: Google Dance - SERPs adjusting at regular intervals to refelct the most relevant web page.

OR

Def: Google Dance - Senior Management from Google Search Engine avoiding direct questions about it's algo.

[Guest]

Sounds like the SOS.

[janeth]

I have a problem with

Jon Glick, senior manager for web search at Yahoo, said, "Keep the information within your site. We view the tactic of having separate informational and commercial sites as being 'bait and switch.'"

So now they tell me how to run my business what is he going to do anyway all they do is copy Google.

I was hoping Yahoo would drop Google and compete against them but when they say things like this it makes me understand why they have to copy Google.

They can not think by themselves.

[Bennyboy]

I reckon Yahoo should have its own pure search technology rather than rely on Google as it has a big enough share of interent searches. After all, their web directory seems pretty useless these days. That way there would be another major search engine to gain exposure from and share the traffic rather than relying soley on Google.
Florida type updates would then become less daunting!

[janeth]

I agree 100% but right now they just sell links for $300.00 a piece

[Vincent Marcello]

So you should have it all on one site? Who gave them the right to dictate the way people present online content anyway? One of the things I've come away with from this conference is that everyone is trying to call all the shots and in my opinion, it's just not right!


Yes it's tantamount to them dictating what content a site should carry.
The worrier here is this:
Google no longer works on democratic values. They believe they do.
Part of a democratic society is this. Everybody gets a fair shake. Now democarcy allow for others who want more to basically go for it and work for it.

This can be aplied to SEO. Everybody has a site up, some are working hard to push their sites further to the top, they want more than the fair shake of the stick. This is fair enough. Now Google has changed the level of the playing field... again!!
It's not that democratic.
I know this. i had a client we built him a beutiful website, optimised each page, gave him some Class 'A' reciprocal links (high rankers)good clean content, the whole site was optimised to go. He made it to teh top in his category and he and us worked hard to keep him there. I mean literally every 15 days we were optimising content.
Now the big change he dropped to 17th page and what took number one was a poorly exceuted site that had nothing to do with the given subject. This is nto democratic at all.
We will adjust to the new rules but we worry when do tehy change again, if they change what will it be next!!

Vincent

[Tony_B]

Seems to me that as the result get less relevant the spin grows in proportion. Scary thing is that they may even believe some of their own hype. Certainly statements such as..


She replied, “If you dropped in rankings, go back and look at who you linked to and who’s linking to you. If any of these people are using spam techniques, they're the reason your site no longer appears on Google.”

..show how much BS is contained within many of their recent replies. Anyone who has a raft of sites covering different topics to look after, and/or has researched the recent changes properly (oh so many haven't although they often shout the loudest) knows just how false her statement is.

[vkarumbaiah]

I think relying on Google or any search engine (or third party) for that matter to advertise your product or service is a mistake.

Search engine ranking and web crawling are still very nascent technologies that are not foolproof, hence the rise of SEO firms whose income depends solely on devising new ways to fool search engines so your site appears higher in the SE rankings. One would probably be better off spending that money on traditional advertising media, don’t you think?

So now given that search engines are not traditionally advertising media (I’m not saying they are not a good medium for advertising, just that they weren’t originally designed for advertising) but instead have been coaxed in that direction what with banner ads and those irritating pop ups, it only makes sense that that Google is trying to accommodate advertising while still maintaining the quality of their search results.

[Tony_B]

I think relying on Google or any search engine (or third party) for that matter to advertise your product or service is a mistake.

Search engine ranking and web crawling are still very nascent technologies that are not foolproof, hence the rise of SEO firms whose income depends solely on devising new ways to fool search engines so your site appears higher in the SE rankings. One would probably be better off spending that money on traditional advertising media, don’t you think?

So now given that search engines are not traditionally advertising media (I’m not saying they are not a good medium for advertising, just that they weren’t originally designed for advertising) but instead have been coaxed in that direction what with banner ads and those irritating pop ups, it only makes sense that that Google is trying to accommodate advertising while still maintaining the quality of their search results.

Herein lies the problem. The ARE NOT keeping the quality of their search results. Look into it properly and it becomes very, very clear. To believe that Google is in any way doing this to keep their results relevant is misguided at best.

[dartman]

I think this whole algorithm business is bs. After enjoying the top spot for several search terms for almost 2 months on BOTH Google and Overture, bingbangpoof, nowhere to be found. The chick who said check the links, well, that's not a solution, just a cop out. It's all about the paid ad dollar and anyone who doesn't believe that is a dreamer. I would challenge every paying advertiser
to pull their Google and Overture ads for 30 days and then see what happens after the dust settles.

[RandyC]

A few quick "odds and ends" thoughts...

1.) Garrett: Sorry I missed you at the SES Conference. I didn't even realize you were there too! If I had I would have kept an eye out for you.

2.) Don't let Google or any other SE tell you how to build your site. They don't have that right, plain and simple. Build your site to satisfy your visitors and soon-to-be-customers. Not the SE's. To do otherwise is foolish.

Example... If you build solely for the SE's and get 1,000 new, unique visitors per day, but only 1 or 2 of those to turn into a customer, you're failing no matter how you look at it. On the other hand, if you build solely for you visitors and only get 200 visitors per day, but 8 of them turn into customers.... You get the idea. Build for your visitors, not the search engines.

3.) Yahoo! will be coming with their own search very, very soon. A little birdie told me so. ;-) IN fact, those who are searching on Yahoo from IP's originating outside of North America have already been seeing non-Google results for two weeks, so they're ready to roll it out. As soon as Y is out from under the Google contract they signed last year expect a change on the US side of things too.

4.) Right now, Google controls 76% of all search. That's why they're the king. The moment Yahoo flips the switch that changes. Remember that MSN currently uses the Inktomi listings (which is now owned by Yahoo!) too.

When Y flips the switch the G vs. Y -supplied results comes out to be a much more balanced 51% for G and 43% for Y according to my math. I should repeat those figures, but just read them again. I'm wore out from travelling and lack of sleep.

Be smart. Start working on your Inktomi listings now. (HotBot.com will give you pure Ink results to look at.) Seriously, that change is coming in a matter of weeks, not months or years. Nobody would give me a firm date, but "by mid-February at the latest" would be a very safe bet from the hints I got.

5.) Next on the short-term horizon? MSN providing their own Search results and possibly an PFI and PPC program too. All run in house because Mr. Bill doesn't like to share. Expect a full court blitz by MSN as soon as they can manage one. Bill likes to *control* a market, not be the #3 provider.

6.) Next on the medium-term horizon? The Personalization of Search. Say what? Okay, that speaks to a situation where data from each individuals search and what they do with it is saved to their local computer in a database. Why? Because Personalization is the Holy Grail that every SE is shooting for. It will provide each individual much more relevant results on their future searches. (Think of it in the same vein as much of the current Spam blocking software which you "train", then apply that idea to search.)

When that happens there will be such thing as a #1 ranking that applies across the board for everyone who searches XYZ Search Engine anymore. This sounds scary, but is a good thing. To compete and be successful you will ***have*** to target your content to the type of visitor you want to entice into becoming a Customer. Because the #1 site for I get on my computer will not be the same site that comes up as #1 for you.

7.) Basically a re-statement in more direct language... Stop obsessing over Google. Those of us who have been through this before know that they eventually return to relavent results. If they don't, they won't be the king anymore. It's really that simple. Plus, their market share is due to take a drastic drop very, very soon.

For your own searches, if you don't like G's current results, go try Teoma, they're a better engine anyway. They just haven't been marketed as effectively. Of course that's just my personal opinion. But wouldn't it be nice to see AOL drop Google and with one of the "smaller" engines like Teoma so that we could all have real diversity in the marketplace? (Send me a goodie basket for that thought if it comes true Paul! heehee)

I'll be back with more trinkets after I've had a chance to catch my breath and get about 24 hours of straight sleep. Garrett's right. Three days is too long if you're really hustling and trying to collect as much information as humanly possible!

[PCboy]

This is my first post here. Thanks for sharing the info. Garrett. Excellent Job!

And also Excellent Job to RandyC insight!

[dmcgill]

Hi all,
Garrett, great work!! I would have loved to see them squirm when the question re: the algorithms came up..LOL
What should have been done from the beginning with any search engine is set the rules and leave them.
Our search is set up that way and I wouldn't even hesitate to let you know how you can get a better ranking. Also, we have had a way since the beginning to make the visitors have a say in how your site is ranked. People can send us comments, both negative and positive and that all effects the way the rankings are. It is built in.

Since the Internet broke loose and Yahoo figured out how to index all the sites in a searchable data base, we have had people trying to regulate it. I see Google in that light and am shocked to see other major search engines follow suit. When you pull from other data bases, when you only do your searches on one engine, when you only go to one store to purchase your advertising, we, WE have given Google this power and sooner or later Google will figure that out.
It is a shame that the darn search is so good. and I have to give it to them for that.

Dmcgill

[frogman]

"For your own searches, if you don't like G's current results, go try Teoma, they're a better engine anyway. They just haven't been marketed as effectively. Of course that's just my personal opinion. But wouldn't it be nice to see AOL drop Google and with one of the "smaller" engines like Teoma so that we could all have real diversity in the marketplace? (Send me a goodie basket for that thought if it comes true Paul! heehee)"
so what are optimazations for Teoma versus Google?

[greeneagle]

Janeth wrote:

I agree 100% but right now they just sell links for $300.00 a piece

Surely most stopped buying in, when they became obviously ineffective in search results! I believe many buyers and SEOs ducked out sometime back, didn't they?

We and our clients did!, It was so obvious clients opted to terminate on their own!

2, Interesting things though:

1). Ducking out didn't appear to have a negative effect on Yahoo Search Results for participants.

2). Some sites have been more positively effected by the GOOGLE influence on YAHOO than what was observed with the fee, prior!

Ken

[TrafficProducer]

Build for your visitors, not the search engines.

Excellent idea... but first those visitors have to find the website.

[RandyC]

I'm back from the living dead I think. LOL A full night's sleep seemed to help a great deal.

Frogman: Teoma's algo or "method" if you will is the same as most search engines honestly. Just that theirs is more refined. So if you get a good ranking on Teoma you should everywhere else. Nice side-benefit there.

The quickie/basic instructions: (I don't think Paul Gardi w/ Teoma will shoot me for putting this out there since he talks about it both publically and privately.)

Build your site so that it will convert visitors into customers.
Work your keyword phrases into your copy so that the SE can tell what your site is about.
Do a good amount of research and get some incoming links from some of the so-called "Authority" or "Expert" sites.
Provide a good product or service, then sit back a bit and collect tons of money.

The keys being, structuring your site and writing copy that will convert; and obtaining quality (as opposed to quantity) incoming links to your site. Become an authority for the subject of your site.

The main difference between Google's PR and Teoma is that Google has never tried to decide if a site linking to you was an Authority or Expert site on a particular subject or not. Teoma does.

Part of Teoma's algo looks at the Community of a given search before trying to determine Authority. Only if a site is an Authority in a given discipline is it given an Authority label.

A quick for instance... With Google's PR, if a site was PR9 because it was a fantastic resource for Widgets, that PR would be passed on to anybody they link to, even if the the subject matter was totally different.

Teoma goes farther... Meaning if a site was an Authority for Widgets, but was linking to a site about Lederhosen, it would be counted as a link, but not an Authority link. They've done Google PR better than Google has, because they look back far enough at incoming links to the sites giving you incoming links to see if the theme or subject matter is on-subject.

Sounds difficult, right? Not really...search on Teoma for your phrases. Along the right side you'll see two things you can use to help you out.

The first is Refinements, which is simply a bit of a guess as to a more specific search based upon the searches performed through Ask.com or any of the other Teoma partners.

Second is the Resources section. That will give you a huge amount of information concerning the top sites that are considered to be Authority sites.

Do that on several of your main, secondary and tertiary keyword phrases, write some decent copy and get a few quality incoming links and you're set!

Randy

[RandyC]

Build for your visitors, not the search engines.

Excellent idea... but first those visitors have to find the website.

If you build for your visitors so that they become clients, include the phrases they would search on to find what you have to offer where appropriate, and obtain incoming links from some quality sites you'll be there TrafficProducer.

Visibility (or ranking) and Conversion has to work hand-in-hand. They're not the same thing of course, but with well written copy you can certainly satisfy both of those requirements.

Better yet, this approach works across the board for all search engines.

[nakulgoyal]

I agree with you janeth !! :-)

[janeth]

Hi nakulgoyal

Yes it does not matter how many people are buying what your selling the point is that is what there selling.

Also greeneagle you may want to re think what your doing because if Yahoo drops Google you may wish you had paid the $300.00 for the link.

Just a though

[luvdavy]

I think this whole algorithm business is bs. After enjoying the top spot for several search terms for almost 2 months on BOTH Google and Overture, bingbangpoof, nowhere to be found. The chick who said check the links, well, that's not a solution, just a cop out. It's all about the paid ad dollar and anyone who doesn't believe that is a dreamer. I would challenge every paying advertiser
to pull their Google and Overture ads for 30 days and then see what happens after the dust settles.

You're a bit wrong on that score. It has nothing to do with whether or not YOU or your website is using adwords. Ours still is and always was on the real estate terms...we only made it to number 5 and that wasn't good enough, so we kept on the adword for that one term. We died just like all the rest. And we are still on the adwords thing. It has to do with the keyphrase, and whether or not its a good adword producer. If it is, then there are no business sites on it now. Therefore they will all have to use adwords or sink. That being said, I don't think it is 100% of the reason...but it's probably 80% of it.
20% being trying to weed out the SEO sites.

Something amusing....if you put in Myrtle Beach house right now...guess what comes up number one?
The House of Blues! I thought that was a hoot.

Jan

[amberstar702]

Would it be so illogical to expect Google to tell us what the rules of the game are in plain language? They have the power because WE gave it to them.

If a movie star is very popular and pulling in millions for films and then nobody goes to see their films anymore, they fall.....You cannot remain a star in any field - no matter how great or talented you are - if the audience goes away!

We can take our marbles and play somewhere else. Let's not forget that we are the star makers.

[luvdavy]

Would it be so illogical to expect Google to tell us what the rules of the game are in plain language? They have the power because WE gave it to them.

If a movie star is very popular and pulling in millions for films and then nobody goes to see their films anymore, they fall.....You cannot remain a star in any field - no matter how great or talented you are - if the audience goes away!

We can take our marbles and play somewhere else. Let's not forget that we are the star makers.

Hmmm....we need a union. All the SEO people, all the webmasters, and all the searchers. Then we could put them in their place....teehee...:-)

Jan

[janeth]

We lost our ranking for everything redid our site and got our ranking back for the same key words and almost the same places but there has been a big drop in the amount of hits we have been getting compared to before Google started changing things.

We are seeing a lot of other search engines and Google is not the main one from what I have seen so far

[luvdavy]

We lost our ranking for everything redid our site and got our ranking back for the same key words and almost the same places but there has been a big drop in the amount of hits we have been getting compared to before Google started changing things.

We are seeing a lot of other search engines and Google is not the main one from what I have seen so far

Curious...how did you redo your site? I've played around a bit...removing all the keywords and stuff. Nothing has made any difference with us in the real estate and travel industry...

Jan

[janeth]

We made a lot of changes in the design look droped about 1,000 words of text got rid of <h1> header tags you would have to see the old site to see what all we changed but it was a total change

[luvdavy]

We made a lot of changes in the design look droped about 1,000 words of text got rid of <h1> header tags you would have to see the old site to see what all we changed but it was a total change

And this brought back your placement? I've gotten rid of all of my keyphrase stuffing...at least on most of the top pages...but I kept the H1 tags...I should get rid of those?

Jan

[janeth]

I got rid of h1 tags
changed my alt tags
changed my title so I did not use the key words that where in the title more then one time in the text.

You can use web site design, web design, designing but we did not use the same lay out over and over.


we tried not to use the same words over and over like you would normally do

we also made sure all incoming links used different search terms.

After about a week we where back my thought was we would loose alot of key words because of all the text we lost but that did not happen.

I guess the links made up for the text we lost.

I would also add as many pages as you can

It was the home pages that where effected so all the other pages should still rank good.

[luvdavy]

we also made sure all incoming links used different search terms.



I guess the links made up for the text we lost.

I would also add as many pages as you can



I've done alot of that. And we've got about 75 pages...but changing the incoming links would be nearly impossible. I've got probably 100 of them that say Myrtle Beach Real Estate in the anchor text...:-(

I had a feeling that might be the key. The one thing that is so close to impossible to fix. And what we were told was so important to do. And you know something...it made sense. Of course your link should indicate what your site is about...that is not spamming. Grrrrr....

Jan

[touristips]

Hello,
I have read nearly all post in regards to new google alowhateveryoucallit and the effects it has had on site ranking results.
I have decided to learn as much as possible about SEO /SEM since it has become my primary means of income.
Googles new formula has knocked out 3 of my sites from top 10 to who knows where.

Search terms:
The net effects are that my main site interior pages have moved to replace sites knocked out from top 10 .
Main site is still top 10.

On the 3 sites knocked out of top 10 interior pages still make it for niche search terms.

At first I panicked along with everybody else then stepped away from the crowd
and realized that orders(revenue) are unchanged other than seasonal flucuations.

With my do it myself approach I view Google as a budding teenager who has decided to mature and poke around shake purse strings ,see what comes in whether we do this or that.
In regards to the tall wall between search & marketing at Google I imagine both sides of the wall are stockholders or have options.

I don't understand Garrett's Google apology from Google rep?
What are they apologizing for and when will they make good!!!

Like Janeth I agree that once yahoo has done the google split will make it a 3 way game:
Google
Intokmi
MSN
and at the same time if google doesn't come up with a positive response to .coms neither will web site visitors.

This redirection (on googles part) represents a major in for other search engines .

Gee let's think about this ; got a real good search engine then someone comes along and wants to monetize it so google sees what others are doing and want to monkey see monkey do is what I think this is all about.
A natural evolution........

Interior pages are always revenue pages the focus has always been on home page.

Happy holidays,
Jaime

[janeth]

Hi luvdavy
Get some links for differnt key words do not mess with what you have but use a differnet link for the while and see if that helps.

[janeth]

luvdavy

One other thing is there anyway I can get the web site address. I would love to take a look at it and see if I see anything if you would like.

Thanks

[luvdavy]

Hi luvdavy
Get some links for differnt key words do not mess with what you have but use a differnet link for the while and see if that helps.

I guess so. I don't think it's going to help on the "real estate" key phrase though...and it was the most important one. We moved up to number one on some of the less important ones though...and all the little oddities like "houses for sale" and such...so I guess I should be lucky I didn't lose it all....
I'm glad to know it worked for you! At least I have some idea of what I'd have to do...if I do it...LOL

Jan

[luvdavy]

luvdavy

One other thing is there anyway I can get the web site address. I would love to take a look at it and see if I see anything if you would like.

Thanks

I'm a bit afraid to post it on here cause I've said some less than nice things...haha. If you'll email me at luvdavy@sccoast.net I'll show you everything I have...I've got about 8 websites...

Jan

[webmistress25]

I have a client that is paying $3100 per month to the Google AdWords. They were number one and now in the first 10 pages of results I cannot find them. The only reason that I see them at all is due to the fact that their Sponsored Link shows up. I don't know about any of you but I am almost blind to advertisements on websites like that. Its almost as if the complete opposite of what an advertiser wants (you to see the little box) happens. Anyway, even a top payer like this has lost their rank and yeah, I'm not happy at all with Google. But as someone said once before, don't make Google mad they are God.

[RemodelingGuy]

I have a client that is paying $3100 per month to the Google AdWords. They were number one and now in the first 10 pages of results I cannot find them. The only reason that I see them at all is due to the fact that their Sponsored Link shows up. I don't know about any of you but I am almost blind to advertisements on websites like that. Its almost as if the complete opposite of what an advertiser wants (you to see the little box) happens. Anyway, even a top payer like this has lost their rank and yeah, I'm not happy at all with Google. But as someone said once before, don't make Google mad they are God.

AD-Words is a JOKE!

Makes OVERTURE look like a wannabe site~

Give me that $3100 and I'll get them a ranking that will make them cash!

[DarrenC]

Okay, why the necessity to redo all of your hard work, and personally I've spent many hours reading forums like this trying to get plenty of hints without spending hours changing SEO

I have a travel site, and it's doing good, before and after Florida update.

If you stick to the basics, ie good quality content, title with some keywords but not riddled with them, good quality links then you cannot go that far wrong.

I think the sites that have suffered have gone overboard with SEO, like <H1> tags and the likes, and Google has dropped one of these from the algo.

What do I know though, I'm only a small business in a rather large industry, but Ive got lastminute.com worried *laughs*

Excellent work Garrett and RandyC.

Darren

[aff_dan]

Hi all,

Visibility (or ranking) and Conversion has to work hand-in-hand. They're not the same thing of course, but with well written copy you can certainly satisfy both of those requirements.

Aff Dan
http://www.marketingtops.com

[dilipsam]

Hi Janeth,

We must accept change for the better. If Google doesn't do this, then there will be still some people who'll call themselves SEOs because they are good SE copywriters. Also in the near future, try correcting your HTML and set them according to W3C standards. I think your webpage is pretty decent as only a few errors are found. Try filling in the ALT attributes which is currently empty.


Regards,
Dilip Samuel

[ronniethedodger]

Try filling in the ALT attributes which is currently empty.

To clarify this statement a little further.

Some people who use a lot of spacer gif's to format and size tables with would probably say "What?"

Although it is proper Html to always have the ALT attribute in your IMG tags...there is nothing wrong with leaving that attribute string empty, as follows:


ALT=""

In addition, search engines do read this ALT attribute. It is a good place to stick some keywords into. But before you go loading them up -- Google also indexes images along with the ALT attribute (do an image search to see what I mean). Never, never, never put keywords into a spacer gif image...heed that warning.

[snair007in]

Hi all,

I read all the postings.. Am in this field for almost 2 Yrs.. I have around 8 sites optimized for SE. I use a simple technique to get into Google, Yahoo, Alta Vista, MSN, Web crawler, Lycos etc. But u need to know the alogos. used by these SE's.

Simple technique i want to share.. (Janeth.. U cud also try out this).

Lets take 3 main key Phrases. (web design, web site design, web hosting)

Use these 3 Keywords in ur
a) <title>web design, web site design, web hosting</title>

b) <meta NAME="Description" content="web design, web site design, web hosting in Florida, USA">

c) <meta NAME="Keywords" content="web design, web site design, web hosting, cheap hosting, ad free hosting">

d) Page text. Eg. web design, web site design, web hosting in florida. If you are looking for these, you have reached the correct place. Please check in our.....

This is how i used to optimize the website... then we wud make our website HTML as W3C rules.

Later i used to submit to many web directories et..then to SE.

And i got good results. Any comments on this, Plz let me know...

Thanks all...

Regards