Is it your way or my way??? [Archive]

publicgadfly

11-19-2003, 02:12 PM

I was married to an Australian once upon a time and “zed” really floored me when I first heard it (I'm American).

My present wife (the last) has some strange enunciations (to me) yet she is highly educated. Here is an example:
envelope
To me the word is either in-va-lope or on-va lope when talking about “the sleeve” I use to mail something.
To her it is in-vell-up
To me, in-vell-up is to enclose (which of course an on-va-lope does) but as a verb.

Spelling and pronunciation cause a lot of misunderstanding, but it isn't just the English language. In New Mexico (USA) Spanish words in the northern part of the state often times have meanings totally different from the southern part or those in Mexico. Some words from one area don't exist in the other area.

On T.V. when I listen to British speaker there are many times I can't understand them. I remember when the Beatles first came to America (this dates me). I could understanding the music words but not all of the spoken interviews.

Why isn't “labor” spelled laboar or labore or laburr?

ranjan

11-19-2003, 02:55 PM

Pick one form, they say, and stick with it.

I was born and brought up in India. English is a Second Language for me. Learning English in India is learning the British form of the language.

I have worked in Australia as a Web Developer, where the form is similar to the British Form.

I am now here In USA where the form is completely different.

But In my experience, I have seen that it doesn't matter what form you use on your website as long as it's consistent.

Please aviod slangs and colloquial pharses.

eg. I am going for a ***. (I am going for a smoke)
relevant in India or UK makes no sense in USA

BTW
I was taught "zed" at school, "zee" was as NEW to me
as "zed" was to my US co-workers

Greyhawk

11-19-2003, 05:02 PM

IMHO Cindy it depends on if you are speaking English or American. Here in Canada we had a comercial for Molson Candian that used the line "I am Canadian" in this comercial they even stated that it was "Zed not Zee, ZED" so knowing that there is truth in advertising, I would have to say stick to English, keep the "U" in words eg ColoUr & NeighboUr, and let the world learn english.

Greyhawk

carju1

11-19-2003, 06:07 PM

Cindy,

Funny you should bring this topic up now (I'll pay you later) but Brittany has just informed me that they will be publishing an alledgedly brilliant article on the subject titled "Is English Learned or Learnt?" on Friday in the WebProWorld UK newsletter (http://webpronews.co.uk/]. (http://webpronews.co.uk/)

Read it then and find out all the answers.

Julian

matauri

11-19-2003, 09:16 PM

LOL...yes Julian I heard there is a brilliant article coming up ! ;-) It was because of another 'alledgedly' brilliant article that the topic came up. We were discussing the alternatives in which spelling should be used.

The americans won ;-)

Definately a worthwhile article Julian! Well done! :-)

Cindy

carju1

11-20-2003, 05:37 AM

ROFL, I knew it was due in the WPN-UK newsletter this week but I hadn't realised that Garrett had put it on the main WPN site as well -full article (http://www.webpronews.com/wpn-2-20031119AmericanvsBritishEnglishAWebmastersGuide.h tml)

Cindy - what is the norm for an Australian site aimed at Australians, BE or AE? A release I did for a South African site had to be in British English but I've never had to write for an Australian site. Which way would an Austrailian report the car tire incident?

Overall as long as you don't use slang and use whichever version of the language consistently you should be OK.

Julian

matauri

11-20-2003, 06:38 AM

Good question Julian!! LOL

We are meant to be BE not AE...but.... it is still disputable how some words are spelt, and you hit on one of the more famous ones :-)

It is meant to be spelt 'tyre', but, because we have so many international companies down here, it can get spelt 'tire'. But if you were writing for an aussie in Australia...I would use 'tyre'

The X Generation has evolved spelling down here. The influx of US media, movies, music ,etc over the past 30 odd years has left an imprint. We are taught BE in schools, but as soon as they leave school or even spend a lot of time on the net, the spelling has been creeping over to the AE. I know myself I will spell words like 'organize, advertize'. When these words are in your face enough in AE, then it sinks in.

I did notice though, most of the new software out now & keyboard languages even state 'Australian English', so maybe we have evolved more than I thought.

Who knows!! :-)
There might be an AUE now ;-)

Cindy

Greyhawk

11-20-2003, 07:08 AM

I did notice though, most of the new software out now & keyboard languages even state 'Australian English', so maybe we have evolved more than I thought.

Who knows!! :-)
There might be an AUE now ;-)

Cindy

Goh Blimey mate, oh no that should be FAIR DINKUM!!!

Comming soon from Greyhawk Designs BE to AUE to AE to CDNE Dictionary

Greyhawk

minstrel

11-20-2003, 09:33 AM

I did notice though, most of the new software out now & keyboard languages even state 'Australian English', so maybe we have evolved more than I thought.
It's similar in Canada I think and you can now find "Canadian English" as a language alternative in some software. That's rather funny when you think about it because what is called Canadian English is a mixture of "BE and AE" as you put it. I no longer use some BE spellings (e.g., "organise" vs. "organize") because by noe they look funny to me, so with software I usually end up starting with AE and then use the "Add word to dictionary" feature to allow certain BE spellings I still want to use.

vfaulkner

11-20-2003, 12:52 PM

As previously posted in http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?p=35262 , it's a challenge, allround...

------------------
"There even are places where English completely disappears —
In America, they haven’t spoken it for years!"
—Professor Henry Higgins,in My Fair Lady

mikmik

11-20-2003, 08:36 PM

minstrel wrote:
...by noe they...

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with that colliquialism, olde saxon mayhaps?

minstrel

11-20-2003, 09:43 PM

minstrel wrote:
...by noe they...
Hmmm, I'm not familiar with that colliquialism, olde saxon mayhaps?
Sorry... that should have said, "by nose they...".

Hope that helps!

JMac

11-21-2003, 11:36 AM

I recently ran into this problem working with a jewelry (jewellery, jewellry ... list continues) designer here in Canada who wants to sell internationally. But what to do about SEO? Even "going international" you have to accept that a large percentage of your potential clients are in the US.

And, as understanding and sympathetic as some Americans are, some are not and choose to be offended by other countries' use of "different" English. (I remember when a math teacher in the US asked me to read aloud an equation which included my saying "3x plus 4ZED =" He forced me to repeat it until I was almost sick with confusion - I had no idea what I was doing "wrong" - finally, he corrected my pronunciation to "4ZEE" - and, fortunately, I returned to school in Canada later that year.)

It boils down to your "target audience".
Now, when the jewelry {sic} designer sends her brochures to Canadian stores, they often question the spelling. But because her domain name includes "jewelry" we decided not to change the spelling on the front of the brochure even. Branding won't work if we're spelling the name of the domain one way and the front of the brochure spells it differently. We're moving towards buying the alternate spelling domain names and redirecting them all to the one entry page.

Did I think Ihad an answer for you when I started this post?
In the words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"

:-)
Here's an interesting article I came across recently which doesn't address language but rather some other perceptions of the US. Again, probably the wrong thread for this but...
http://www.brendastardom.com/arch.asp?ArchID=93

Have a great Friday!

JMac

davebarnes

11-21-2003, 11:39 AM

Let's see.
The US has 12 aircraft carriers.
The UK has 1 (and it can only support STOL aircraft).
The French have one, but it doesn't work.

The US wins.

minstrel

11-21-2003, 12:06 PM

The US has 12 aircraft carriers.
The UK has 1 (and it can only support STOL aircraft).
The French have one, but it doesn't work.
Canada has no aircraft carriers. We bought some broken submarines from the UK, apparently because the government didn't realize they were broken. We have a few helicopters that are now so old that they apparently require 10-30 hours of maintenance for every hour of flight time, and even at that one recently crashed onto to the deck of a boat in the Gulf when it attempted to take off. Our military vehicles are dangerously old and inadequately armoured. Our military has had its budget slashed repeatedly over the past 10 years. And we still claim to have a peace-keeping force we can offer to support UN missions, and send our personnel in to war zones without the appropriate equipment or even clothing...

That seems to make it:
Canada 0
Rest of the World 1

rlrouse

11-21-2003, 01:44 PM

English varies quite a bit within the US, even within the same state.

I live in southwestern Virginia. We carry our groceries home from the store in a "bag". Eastern Virginians carry theirs home in a "poke".

In southwestern Virginia, we live in a house (rhymes with mouse). Eastern Virginians live in a house (pronounced hoase or something similar).

I don't really think there is a best answer to the question of "So which do we use?". English is English IMO. I have no trouble understanding it regardless of the "flavor".

As an American who was born, raised, and resides in the beautiful Virginia hills (yes, I'm a country hick), I'm not all that familiar with British English. But it does appear that most English words are spelled the same everywhere except here in the States.

And yes, we have altered the language a bit over the centuries, but most Americans that I know of are very proud of our language's British roots.

A person who, for whatever reason, wants the readers to think he/she is based in the US might be better served by using the US version. Other than that, I see nothing wrong with using your native version.

ed.quinn

11-21-2003, 05:59 PM

I really don't see the problem. So what if I use color or colour? At the end of the day they both mean the same thing. If I use colour and some people in the US don't like it - so what? It's no great loss if they click away.

I can't imagine that kind of arrogance being an issue with most Internet users. It saddens me to think that we are in fact two countries seperated by a common language, all because of an extra 'u' here and a 'z' there.

carju1

11-21-2003, 06:03 PM

I really don't see the problem. So what if I use color or colour? At the end of the day they both mean the same thing. If I use colour and some people in the US don't like it - so what? It's no great loss if they click away.

Hi Ed, yes it could be a great loss because that could be the sale that leads to the recommendation that leads to ......

As I closed the article on WPN-UK (http://www.webpronews.co.uk/webpronewsuk-36-20031119AmericanvsBritishEnglishAWebmastersGuide.h tml)...... On the global scale of things, no, it probably doesn’t matter that much, but in the highly competitive world of web sites every little thing helps.

Regards
Julian

kneelsit

11-21-2003, 07:24 PM

A most interesting thread and many worthwhile differing points of view. Seems to come down to two main conclusions:

1. If your main concern is with making money and you fear losing a potential sale to an insular Yank then just give in and go with the American spellings.

2. If you take pride in your roots and native country plus its unique differences then stick with the spelling of your native land. We are almost completely swamped now with M$ products - why give in even further!

Though I am Australian I personally love to hear a Scottish or Irish accent, even though I sometimes have dificulty understanding what is said. My own "bete noir" however, is the Occer Oz. accent
or even worse the slovenly drawl of the poorly educated woman from the southern states - I do not mean to be insulting but it really grates on my ear. I used to shudder whenever I heard it from American army wives while stationed in Japan.

P.S. bete noir for those who did not take French at school "black beast" (lit.) or pet hatred.

daz

11-21-2003, 09:12 PM

Right, I've only just entered this conversation and already I find it pointless. Who really cares what way you spell the word colour because it does not matter how the word color is spelt. At the end of the day the word is just a way to communicate to the rest of the world that you want to say the word colour.
So why if the internet is a global and international forum do we have the debate about the word colour, or should I say the word color. To be honest I don't really care!

matauri

11-21-2003, 11:38 PM

So why if the internet is a global and international forum do we have the debate about the word colour, or should I say the word color. To be honest I don't really care!

ahhh...utopia !! Wouldn't that be nice !! :-)

But unfortunately daz, there are people who DO care, and some of those are the ones with the money that keep the roof over our head. I dont care about cross browser/resolution ,accessibility, etc, either. But if you are going to derive an income out of the written media, then I suppose there are just some crosses we have to bare.

This also isn't a debate. It is a discussion on who finds what form preferable. Some very interesting points & advice has been discussed.

But thank you for joining in the discussion anyway :-)

Cindy

minstrel

11-21-2003, 11:53 PM

To bring this thread back to the original question, "Is it your way or my way?", in my usual Rogerian fashion I have been sitting back waiting for y'all to find the answer but it isn't happening so I thought I'd step in and stop all the suspense.

The answer is, "It's my way."

There you go... now, where's that beer I promised myself?

:-)

masterpeace

11-22-2003, 12:19 AM

The X Generation has evolved spelling down here. The influx of US media, movies, music ,etc over the past 30 odd years has left an imprint. We are taught BE in schools, but as soon as they leave school or even spend a lot of time on the net, the spelling has been creeping over to the AE. I know myself I will spell words like 'organize, advertize'. When these words are in your face enough in AE, then it sinks in.

I did notice though, most of the new software out now & keyboard languages even state 'Australian English', so maybe we have evolved more than I thought.

IF ONLY!
I still remember years ago installing Word for the first time and was so happy to see and "Australian English" language option in Word... only to find that it was useless as it was basically American English. I soon gave up and have used the BRitish English version ever since...

As Matauri said, the english taught in schools here is much more like British English. However (as my dad reminded me for YEARS), the Sesame Street generation has been hit over the head with "zee" so much, that try as much as you like, they look at you and their tachers as if they are mad when you try tell them it is "zed". And the last 15 years we have been inundated with american TV & movies and our teenagers speak more & more like americans.

I personally prefer British English, but I was born in the UK and raised by british parents in Australia. However I am constantly running to the dictionary (the printed one not the computer one, because that is generally faulty) because I, like everyone else here, have been so saturated by the "American" spelling of things that I am often unsure what the proper spelling is anymore!

I don't mind that the Americans use their own "version" of english. Australian english is also changing more and more from the "original". It is the nature of language. We all know of Shakespeare, but honestly, when we read or hear his work for the first time we all (including the "british") have to really concentrate to even vaguely understand what it is saying...

Language is always changing. If you took two groups of people who spoke identical english, stuck them on "desert islands" and cut them off from the rest of the world for 200 years, you would likely find two highly varied dialects of the original english and it is quite possible that if you stuck the two groups descendants together they would barely be able to understand each other. The only reason communication between english speaking countries these days does not suffer the same fate is that modern communications enable us to become familiar with the coloquialisms & pronunciation of the other countries.

My dad would love all the english speaking countries to go back to the english he grew up with. And while I personally like that "dialect" as well, I know it is only because I am familiar with it...

On the web. I design for a target audience, so I would also write for the target audience. I have to say I am lucky because most of my clients are Australian businesses with ".com.au" domains, but if a client asked me to design something for a ".com" site which was aimed more towards the American market I would certainly try work in american english (but I would leave the spell check in the clients hands!)

Oddly enough, while the rest of the english speaking world is quite used to being hit with "americanisms" and has become resilient (if resentful) towards it, Americans do seem to find a lot more difficulty in understanding other the "english" of other countries...

minstrel

11-22-2003, 12:51 AM

Oddly enough, while the rest of the english speaking world is quite used to being hit with "americanisms" and has become resilient (if resentful) towards it, Americans do seem to find a lot more difficulty in understanding other the "english" of other countries...

I think the attitude of various nations/cultures toward other languages is a fascinating window into the national persona...

Americans don't even pretend to learn anyone else's language - it's the "melting pot" attitude (which by the way I think has some merit and would have made social change in Canada a lot smoother) which basically says, "We know we're important and so does everyone else so if they want to communicate with us they'll learn our language."

The British, who have never truly given up dominion over the British Empire (I was born there so I can say that), have a similar but subtly different viewpoint - there really isn't any other language in the world more civilized than "British" and anyone who claims otherwise is just being stubborn - therefore, "if we just yell louder, they will understand us". I can still remember my mother, trying to talk to the French-Canadian bread delivery man in Montreal, standing at the doorway, screaming, "Pass Dee Pain today!!!!" at the poor man.*

Australians try not to get involved by saying, "Rippah! What's on the barbie tonight?"

Canadians revert to the always conversational, "Geeze... do those Leafs suck? or what?"

* translation for those who speak francais but not franglais, "Pas de pain aujourd'hui", and for the anglophones, "No bread today".

mikmik

11-22-2003, 01:01 AM

The answer is, "It's my way.", as minstrel was kind enough to inform us, is, of course, pretty much THE answer to most dilemma's (does the apostrophe go there?).
Personally, if someone is going to be THAT picky and particular, I don't want to work with them!! What else are they going to be 'choosy' about during the process of designing?
I am the original sycophant, but you can't spend most of your time on someone, just bscause they are extraordinarily demanding, at the expense of other's time. 'Course, I don't value money as much as some (not saying it is a good or bad value, just different!).
Anyway's, I am all for individuality and divers identity, I want to respect my origins, the origins of the words in the language, and not become a socialogical clone.
Gotta go, think I just hurt myself there.

minstrel

11-22-2003, 01:23 AM

dilemma's (does the apostrophe go there?).
no actually - that word doesn't even have an apostrophe...

I am the original sycophant
You mean, one of those big grey animals with the tusks and a trunk? I think I'm confusing myself...

Anyway's
(mental note - disable mik's apostrophe key)

I am all for individuality and divers identity
I thought divers always had to go in twos?

Gotta go, think I just hurt myself there.
no no... just rub a little A535 on it... you'll be fine...

matauri

11-22-2003, 01:46 AM

I still remember years ago installing Word for the first time and was so happy to see and "Australian English" language option in Word... only to find that it was useless as it was basically American English. I soon gave up and have used the BRitish English version ever since...

Doesn't that just drive you nuts in Word ! I did the same, I reverted mine to BE also. In Aust Eng it picks up every BE spelling word anyway. Personally cant see the point why they even gave us the option there! I just love sending documents in Word, because depending who it is, you know it is going to turn up with little red squiggles all over it on their end. Such a professional look too ;-)

I have a Canadian client, and he insists that the AE is the correct spelling to use....he is part of the melting pot. Try telling him that Canada is BE, and he'll swear black & blue that the AE spelling is the way the BE spells it too. We have to sometimes take into account the 'silly' clients ;-)

Cindy

minstrel

11-22-2003, 01:57 AM

I have a Canadian client... We have to sometimes take into account the 'silly' clients
Something said... not good... what was it? "Canadian"? No, that's okay... "silly"! They called you silly!

- Homer's Brain

redcircle

11-22-2003, 03:04 AM

I think you've opened a big can of worms. Have you been to the states before? There is no one pronounciation that has ever been the same so how can one be correct correct. Everyone has different accents and that makes it come out a little different. In the US we have so many different influences from different languages it's mind boggling. As far as your Zee and Zed problem go I'm not sure.

I do know that in texas if you want to be a news reporter you have to take classes to loose your southern drawl.

redcircle

11-22-2003, 04:03 AM

I posted the my first post without reading the entire thread.

I think I was graced with the opportunity to attend an urban american school with all the fixins'. Because of my experiance I can cuss in 5 different languages also I can understand most of the racial slurs of those languages. One thing I definately know is that there are many language barriers when so many different languages are allowed. I am not saying any one language is better than the other but people are treated different if english is not a first language in america. In school there were even "special classes" for bilingual students. To me these classes made me feel that because they needed special classes they were lower than me. Which was wrong. My seinor year we had a hispanic girl that was in my Calc class that received awards and praise for the exact same work that I did just because she was hispanic and "bilingual". Math is math. actually isn't math the most universal language. I don't feel that was right. I think the US has many problems creating a seperate but equal standards. The only problem how do you have a single language for hundreds of different languages. We should all resort back to latin, the mother language. ofcourse the only latin I ever learned was in biology class.. when I went.

I do have a link.. kinda funny.. to me atleast. it's about the end of the world. I warn of the vulgar language tho. beware. THE END OF THE WORLD (http://members.cox.net/impunity/endofworld.swf)

vfaulkner

11-22-2003, 01:30 PM

quoted:
"...Americans don't even pretend to learn anyone else's language -..."

I speak French( 5 years of classroom & French-Canadian relatives)and a spattering of travel Italian.
I will probably take some Spanish as well.

I am sure others would disagree with the quote, too.

minstrel

11-22-2003, 01:38 PM

quoted:
"...Americans don't even pretend to learn anyone else's language -..."
I am sure others would disagree with the quote, too.
My apologies, Vicki - that post was meant to be humorous, not offensive. You may notice that I was also poking fun at the British (my birth country) and the Canadians (where I have lived most of my life), among others, and anyone who knows me well knows that I am not at all anti-American.

matauri

11-22-2003, 02:02 PM

and anyone who knows me well knows that I am not at all anti-American.
Upsetting the neighbours again Dave?? ;-)

<edit:>
I would just like to add though, that this wasn't meant to be a slanging match over peoples accents or languages (innocent rib poking accepted). So I would hate to see it degenerate down that path.

Cindy

vfaulkner

11-22-2003, 06:32 PM

mikmik

11-22-2003, 10:40 PM

Vfaulkner used this word :
the
Can you believe it???
I, for one, take offence at use of such language! nerve of some people! (o;
Everyone!

minstrel

11-22-2003, 11:05 PM

Vfaulkner used this word :
theCan you believe it??? I, for one, take offence at the use of such language!the nerve of some people! (o;
Minstrel officially takes the Incorrigible Crown from the head of Matauri and hands it to mikmik...

(and, no, mik... chanting, "IN YOUR FACE, CINDY!" is not appropriate...)

MekhongKurt

11-23-2003, 12:12 AM

As a former educator teaching "English" -- why I use the quotation marks will become clear shortly -- and as a current web master, this is a most interesting thread to me.

After obtaining a B.A. degree in literature in English in the U.S. in the mid-70's and teaching one semester as a student teacher in elementary and high school, I didn't teach at all for several years. Then I began teaching in 1981, initially half-time at university level while studying for an M.A. in literature (again, in the U.S.). From 1985 onward I taught English (and Business Communications) in universities in Texas, mainland China, and Macau, and in universities, language schools, and to private students in Thailand, where I currently live.

I've been exposed to many varieties of English. (And from an early age -- my Godfather is British, and was headmaster of the private school, modeled on British lines, my parents helped found in Texas, and many of the teachers were from the U.K or Commonwealth countries).

In my experience, arguments about "correct" English sometimes are in fact cloaks for nationalism, a nationalism that can get downright nasty -- and I don't excuse my fellow citizens of the U.S. regarding this, as some of them are the worst and most arrogant.

As other posters have correctly noted, the way a language is written and spoken varies somewhat from place to place, sometimes in short order, geographically, especially in speaking. If we were all to agree, say, that British English is the one which we wish to adopt to become a "Universal English," which British English would we adopt? After all, the English spoken in Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are all variants of the language, too. As is Cockney English, for that matter. Taking the point outside the Home Islands of the English Language, what about, say, English as spoken by Indians who learned it as a first language? Isn't there an argument for that? Or English as spoken in Australia, given that the original settlers were themselves from the U.K.?

I can't do much about my Texas drawl, though I have managed to flatten it a bit living abroad. But I *never* criticize a student for speaking or writing *any* legitimate variant of the language; "color" and colour," "theater" and "theater," etc. are all acceptable -- and, more importantly, correct variant spellings. The justly venerated Oxford English Dictionary recognizes a rather astonishing 22 basic variants of the English language globally. Multiply that times the number of dialects spoken -- the U.S. has numerous ones, for instance -- and the figures become dizzying.

Besides, different accents and different spelling logic fascinate me, as does the use of different words for the same thing (such as "subway" and "tube").

About the only thing that is consistent in the language is the grammar, especially in formal/academic writing -- but even that gives way in ordinary conversation -- and it does so all around the globe. (It occurs to me that may be the single most unifying element of the language.)

If we choose to decry the differences, let's at least just thank the high heavens we aren't native speakers of Chinese, with its numerous -- and often mutually-incomprehensible -- dialects. I speak a bit of Mandarin, and can sometimes make out other dialects to a small degree, but with other dialects, I might as well be listening to someone speak Venusian!

Just me own double-pence worth . . . ;-)

Narasinha

11-23-2003, 12:34 AM

I basically write according to my knowledge of standard American English spelling and grammar. Speaking can be a different thing altogether. Several years ago while in Kentucky (No offense to Brittany *wink*) I stayed at a campground in a National Park. When I stopped at the gate to pay my entrance fee, etc., I thought I was going to need a translator. I grew up only three hours' drive north of Louisville, but the girl at the gate had an accent so thick (to my ears) as to be nearly unintelligible.

It is difficult to keep in mind the different words used in British English and American English for the same thing, or the same word used for vastly different things: Crackers, biscuits, bangers, tube, underground, etc., etc.

As for the mention of Americans speaking only American English, a list of definitions (in jest) is in order:

Trilingual: n. someone able to speak three languages.
Bilingual: n. someone able to speak two languages.
Monolingual: n. an American.

Though I am an American, I speak a bit of Spanish and German, and can pick out a few words and phrases in Russian and French.

rocky1

11-23-2003, 01:16 AM

and then you have the different area lingos, I was born and raised in Ohio, moved to Michigan, then Alabama, and now live in West Virginia...all places with language flavor... all say I talk funny! go fig...!

Well V I was born and raised in the sticks of North Florida, spent 6 weeks in Texas, 3 years in Biloxi, MS another 2 in Florida, then 21 years ago moved to ND. Folks used to tell me I talked funny, still do on occasion, as I'm told my enunciation of southern dialect improves directly proportional to the quanity of beer I have consumed. And, I tell them to this day, as I always have ~~ "Hell, I don't talk funny! You people just listen funny."

Rocky

DigitalDragon

11-26-2003, 12:27 PM

Let's see.
The US has 12 aircraft carriers.
The UK has 1 (and it can only support STOL aircraft).
The French have one, but it doesn't work.

The US wins.

Nice to see a true patriot expressing the only thing that matters; war. :oP

I'm a resident of the US, been here just over two years from England. I've always attempted to speak and write in English correctly, but I feel more of an urge to do so here in the US. It feels like part of my identity.

I always go with the client's opinion in terms of a site, while trying to stay as neutral as possible.

In terms of geographical differences, in pronounciation and dialect, I feel that that topic is a little redundant. We're discussing written English. It seems plain and simple to avoid colloqialisms in any form of business or professional written communication, unless there is an explicit reason for it. I would never use the word "***" on my website, regardless of the target audience. It's slang, and there's no need for it.

I feel the same about Ebonics. It's a slang dialect, not a language, and should never be adpoted outside of a social context or more relaxed form of comunication, i.e. music. It should certainly NEVER be taught in schools.

Anyway, the language is called English, no matter how many weapons or war machines the USA holds in it's arsenal. (Or uses to blow things up...) ;o)

mikmik

11-26-2003, 01:21 PM

DigitalDragon wrote :

davebarnes wrote:
Let's see.
The US has 12 aircraft carriers.
The UK has 1 (and it can only support STOL aircraft).
The French have one, but it doesn't work.

The US wins.

Nice to see a true patriot expressing the only thing that matters; war. :oP

Yes, but If we don't spell properly, they'll impose sanctions!

whitelightning7

11-26-2003, 05:09 PM

Personally I think it is a shame that America has created this silly split within language. It's just like the entire Metric or Standard debate. Logically, the metric system should be the one that everyone goes with, but someone a long time ago decided to create this sense of nationalism by coming up with a nonsensicle unit of measure.

The 'z' pronunciation is really interesting too. I never knew that BE and AE pronounced it that way, mainly because they don't teach us much beyond our own borders in America. It seems to me that you guys have an advantage over us when it comes to learning another language because of the similarities that you have kept in place.

I say hang on to your pronunciations and spellings, just make sure that the audience knows where the site is from. Because I don't know all of the inconsistencies between the spellings, I'm likely to read a site as having misspelled a lot of stuff simply because I do not know that it is from Britain. The internet is an amazing medium through which we can all broaden our horizons, but if the rest of the world bows down to cater to American consumers, where does the culture go? In effect, you would destroy the best thing the net has going for it.

When I watch French tv on the net (I'm trying to learn it), the scarriest thing to me is when I see young boys in Africa running around with Lakers jerseys and musicians in France modeling themselves after america rap stars. I'm afraid that when I go there in the summer that I'll arrive to find gigantic SUV's with lift kits on them manned by a bunch of middle aged mothers and wanna be gangsters bumping stereos systems that you can hear a mile away.

Please, please, please, I'm begging you, hang on to your culture. The last thing this world needs is a global America.

~dave~

Ol Gnome

11-26-2003, 09:54 PM

When I saw this thread, I thought of an article my brother-in-law sent me.

"Why is English so hard to learn"

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he could get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

7) The wind was so strong to wind the sail.

8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.

9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.

10) I did not object to the object.

11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.

13) They were too close to the door to close it.

14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.

15) A streamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.

16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.

17) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.

18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.

19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.

20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.

Lets face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger, neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren’t invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren’t sweet, are meat.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor it is a pig.

And why is that writers write but fingers don’t fing, grocers don’t groce and hammers don’t ham?

matauri

11-26-2003, 10:12 PM