Linking to the Competition

[B Noble]

I'm curious as to what you folks think about exchanging links with competitors who are in effect selling the same commodity as you; hence they are direct competitors and sometimes affiliates of competitors.

I realize folks do this because they want link popularity in Google; but what good does a higher ranking in Google do your site when the folks who find your site through Google are bombarded with 100s of links that lead to your direct competitors? The whole idea of exchanging links with direct competitors has been a mystery to me and is actually more of a link-farm type atmosphere. I cannot imagine any of the sites that do this are actually making money even though it might be helping their Google ranking.

The reason I mention it is because I initially screen all incoming mail at the company I work for and forward it onto whoever should respond. We used to get dozens of requests for link exchanges with competitors per week but that number has grown quite a bit in the last few months. I've always wondered why these folks even try and whether they know something we don't ... LOL. Any comments?

[rlrouse]

I link my site to the competition all the time, and on the home page to boot! I do the same for my clents' sites.

Links out of your site (even to the competition) provide additional resources for your users. And linking to the competition demonstrates that you have enough confidence in your site/product/pricing to allow your customers to shop around.

I have found that in general, every time I link out to a competitor in return for a link back on a like page (homepage to hompage for example), my overall traffic goes up a notch.

This of course assumes that you do your homework and learn what you need to know about your potential link partners before you decide to link to them.

Many webmasters think of linking to competitors as being a great taboo. And don't even think about linking from the home page!

My experience with my own site and those of my clients is that these links, if done carefully and properly, help a lot more than they hurt.

My advice: Link early and link often, as long as you get real value for the link. (And this could be simply for the benefit of your users).

[janeth]

It is just as easy to do a search on Google and look at another 1,000 sites as it is to click on a link.

If you site will not compete then you loose either way.

I feel like if you have enough confidence in your site you should be willing to trade links.
If you do not then you need to continue to work on your site.

[B Noble]

Ah... Confidence in our company site and business is not an issue. :) Very few of our competitors can send us the same amount of targeted traffic as we would likely send them and very few of them spend anything close to the amount we spend a month in targeted advertising.

I'd like to hear from folks who link to competitors that do spend >$10,000 a month in advertising on a monthly basis and their competitors are capable of an equal amount of "targeted" traffic exchange.

Finding a website through a search engine based on typing in keywords or phrases is entirely different than finding it through a targeted marketing strategy which is where our traffic would come from.

If you look at companies like Intuit, you won't find them linking to MS Money or other bookkeeping software companies' websites. Does Jasc link to other graphic software sites - even the smaller ones? If they don't, does that mean they have little confidence in their software or website? ;)

[janeth]

If I was spending $10,000 a month on advertising I would worry more about getting a return on that money then exchanging links.

That was not the orginal question.

[B Noble]

If I was spending $10,000 a month on advertising I would worry more about getting a return on that money then exchanging links.

I believe you have misunderstood the reason for my post. We are not worried at all about exchanging links or reaching a good ROI. We are not worried about anything at all.

Let me explain again... I (as the person who filters this link request mail) was merely asking why folks think there is an advantage to this practice when their traffic is then saturated by upteen links for their potential customers (targeted or not) to choose from. To imply that companies who do not exchange links are not confident enough in their business, really confused me. There are many reasons why companies would not and I gave examples of others as well as describing our situation.

[speakak]

I highly believe in links for high search ranking and giving visitors links to information of the same technology that I sell. As I'm in voice technology I would prefer to link to the same type technology i.e. computer services, communication services, web development etc.

I provide a free classified ad section on one of my sites that anyone can post their link without an exchange link and have no problem with doing so. I'm also considering a message board for one of the sites that I will link to all my sites.

I have several links to the corporation that I sell their products and feel that it is good for business.

I have a new (one of a kind site) www.mac-moon.com that I would like to link to all other same type sites as they come on line if any do. They would not be direct competition even though they provide the same services.

[Leisa]

I guess my situation is different because I offer a directory of companies but I link to my competitors' sites (links that are very prominent) because...

If a user can't find what they're looking for on my site I would rather give them more resources than have them leave angry and frustrated. Even though we couldn't help them in-house, we could still help them. As a matter of fact, take a look at any of my category pages and you'll see what I mean.

I realize this may not apply to an online store or similar site but that's my perspective.

[matauri]

To imply that companies who do not exchange links are not confident enough in their business, really confused me. There are many reasons why companies would not .....

Actually, I stand on the other end of the scale. I don't feel the need for reciprocal links with other designers. Goes back to a debate on another forum I was having.....Would Lacroix, Valentino or Versace link to K-mart?

I don't feel threatened by other design businesses at all, but I certainly don't see the need to clutter my business site with reciprocal links to everyone. I have 3 external links on my site, and they are because "I" wanted to have them there, not because of any marketing strategy.

While I fully support fledgling businesses wanting maximum exposure, I am not going to design to K-mart prices that would be advertized on reciprocal links. If you want a 'cheap' web designer, do a search for 'cheap, budget,etc'..you wont find us there. That may sound arrogant, but you get what you pay for.

Also, for a web designer to 'send' people elsewhere is breaking one of the commandments of web design...Keep visitors on 'your' site. If I saw a web designer sending people away from their site, I wouldn't have much faith in what they can achieve for me.

There are plenty of means of of linking all over the net wihtout replying on reciprocal links, you dont need to make your business homepage one of them. If you do feel this need, hide it sooooo far back in the woods that it only exists.



Cindy

[janeth]

We have done quite good exchanging links. It is a forum of advertising and has nothing to do with Kmart prices

and you do not always get what you pay for.

I learned that hard lesson at a very young age.

My problem is more then just checking the mail. I run my business totally online. I have to figure out how to advertise, how to market, how to sale, how to hire people and how to turn a profit.
We started this business with no money and have never spent the first dime on advertising.

We have ten employess that work here and all our customers come from free ways to advertise online.

Out of all of them the best that I have found is link exchanges and search engines.

So I guess until you live in a third world country with no way of doing web sites in the country where you live, no money to start a business and a desire to make it on your own it is hard to put yourself in the shoes of those people like me that exchange links as a way to make money.

So we make our total living, pay our employees and pay our bills from something as simple as exchanging links.

[matauri]

Janeth....you have to look at this a bit logically too. Would I put a link to you on my site. No. Why would I link to someone that offers free websites & uses the term so often on their site. This by no means is indicative of how I feel about how you do business, but, it is suicide to link to cheap & freebie sites. I would be out of my mind to do so.

If the roles were reversed, and I was using your marketing strategy, then yes, linking to my site would pose no threat of competition. However, I am not marketing my business to competition...there is sooooooooooooooooo much of that already on the net. Therefore, I let my business stand on its own merit.

When I refer to Kmart prices I am not directly comparing that you offer a kmart service. I am saying it is the production line mentality. Put it this way....if by your marketing campaign (in yrs to come) you get say 50 replies for websites a week to do. How can you possibly give individualized service to all 50 customers, let alone your best work for each one. It becomes a production line. Then you hire more people to cope with the work load, then you need more comptuers & space to cater to this. Soon you are an administrator & not a designer any more. There are many business people that don't want to go down that route, or have been down there before & didn't like the stress it involved...I for one.

But, it brings to mind a conversation I had on another thread a while back, what hat do you wear? Are you a web/graphic designer? Or a web developer? Are you a SEO? Are you a marketting strategist? A promoter? An advertizing rep? You can't wear all the hats. No matter how much you want to.

And I do know how it works in Central America, I was in Guatamala, Belize & Hondurus for a long time. Did I buy the goods that were mass produced....no....I bought goods that were made/grown by the people themselves. The quality far outdid any mass produced items that were selling for a lot cheaper.

Think of it this way....a customer comes into your office enquiring about a website or a new business image. You will tell them that you can do this, this & this for them at this price. But you wouldn't say "I can do this, this & this for this price, but if you go down the road you can get it cheaper"...would you? That's maddness! And if you want to make it in the world of marketing, you are taking the wrong approach. YOU are the product, not part of a range of products available.

But in the end...like I said....it's up to you how you want to promote your business. I am not saying what you are doing is wrong by any means. And it could work among businesses in the same genre. :-)



Cindy

[janeth]

We take pride in every site we do. There are no sites thrown togeather and every site is custom made. If a customer does not like something we work with it until they do.

We build web sites that work well with the search engines and try to make sure every customer is taken care of.

Rather we do one site or 200 sites we do try to take care of our customers.

As in any business we may have a customer that gets upset but it is not from a lack of trying on our part.

Because we want our business to grow does not mean that we do sorry work.

[matauri]

Janeth...you are taking this all wrong. I DID NOT say you did sorry work.


This by no means is indicative of how I feel about how you do business


it's up to you how you want to promote your business. I am not saying what you are doing is wrong by any means. And it could work among businesses in the same genre

I was pointing out that you do not do reciprocal links to sites in the same industry that offer cheap or freebie websites. It's suicide!!! The man selling hand woven rugs by the side of the road doesn't have a sign saying you can get similar, but not the same, up the road for cheaper.

The whole idea of marketing/advertizing/promotion is to make YOU the product. You have achieved that. No one can offer less than a FREE service can they? So, they offer something else.


Cindy

[speakak]

The problem I have found with webmasters is that they only need a few local customers to pay the bills and some of the sites they build needs 1000000"s of visitors to pay the bills. All sites have their special needs and ways to attract viewers. I have one site that I sell to a worldwide market, another site that I provide a local city service to but want worldwide viewers to see as it is both selling a local service and was devised as a demo to sell one of the products that I sell on the other site. I have had to make many changes to keywords, larger slower loading pages and utilizing free ads and links. I am now ranked in the top 10 to 30 in most search engines using keywords pertinent to the products that I sell. If I add "Alaska" to the keywords I am normally #1. I also had to go through about 20 webmasters to build my first site as it is a site that reads the text on the pages to any visitor that clicks a "SpeakThis" button. Simply copy and paste some HTML to the file. I have found that most the experts turn and run if you mention you want voice technology used on the site. (Different sites have their special needs)

[rlrouse]

Some buisnesses link freely to others. Others link only in very special cases. Still others choose not to link at all. And we all make that choice for various reasons, some logical, some not.

It does little good to try to determine the validity of or the logic behind someone else's policy and way of doing business. Every business is unique and every individual has his/her own style and personality.

An intial question was asked:


I've always wondered why these folks even try and whether they know something we don't ... LOL. Any comments?

It was then answered:

In a nutshell, because it works and works very well!

I have never lost business because of a link exchange. Quite the opposite. And I have never had the need or desire to burn $10k a month on advertsing to drum up business, although it would be easy to do so.

It all boils down to personality, personal preferences, and return on investment. As for the latter, I'm very pleased with mine, and I'm guessing that everyone else posting here is as well or you would be doing things differently.

[TrafficProducer]

Exchange Links unless you have a ton of advertising cash do both.


Tips:-

http://www.solutions.ukdots.com/content_doorway_pages.htm

http://www.solutions.ukdots.com/advertising_methods.html

[matauri]

I believe you have misunderstood the reason for my post. We are not worried at all about exchanging links or reaching a good ROI. We are not worried about anything at all.

Let me explain again... I (as the person who filters this link request mail) was merely asking why folks think there is an advantage to this practice when their traffic is then saturated by upteen links for their potential customers (targeted or not) to choose from. To imply that companies who do not exchange links are not confident enough in their business, really confused me.

I must be reading the wrong thread. I could have sworn this was about 'linking to competitors', not just reciprocal linking.

Example:
I put a link to web design site on my business site that offers free web design. Someone in Mandurah (Western Australia) does a search for media/web design in that locale, however, they also put the word 'free' just to see what is out there. So now we have that site coming up thru that link in the search results.

Wise? I don't think so. I am potentially losing business. Now why would I want to do that???? But if you think this is a logical practice, keep doing it. I personally think otherwise. I am not going to throw in the word 'free' to compete.

I was at a conference on online marketing a few years ago. One of the topics was adding the word 'sex' to achieve a better ranking. I was amazed at how many businesses were prepared to take this route. Adding keywords of products/services you don't offer is false advertizing. Trying to compete with those that do, is a waste of time. So you trade on your own merits. If a client wants me to add these words, that is up to them. If they want me to reciprocate links with Joe Bloggs who offers the same service for half the price, then again, that is up to them.

You can use reciprocal links with many other sources that can COMPLIMENT & BENEFIT your business, and likewise for clients.


Cindy

[B Noble]

[quote=B Noble]I could have sworn this was about 'linking to competitors', not just reciprocal linking.

Cindy, you are absolutely right. It is about linking to competitors. Most of the reciprocal link requests we get are from competitors (99.9% are companies that are much smaller than us). I left the word "competitors" out of my 2nd post but that's what I meant and what the thread is all about. Sorry for the confusion.

I quickly scanned this thread and don't have time right now to read it thoroughly and respond more. But hopefully I can get back here later today to do so. I'm glad to see the input from others.

[rlrouse]

I put a link to web design site on my business site that offers free web design. Someone in Mandurah (Western Australia) does a search for media/web design in that locale, however, they also put the word 'free' just to see what is out there. So now we have that site coming up thru that link in the search results.

Wise? I don't think so. I am potentially losing business. Now why would I want to do that???? But if you think this is a logical practice, keep doing it. I personally think otherwise. I am not going to throw in the word 'free' to compete.

Your reasoning makes perfect sense in this specific example and I doubt if anyone here would doubt the wisdom in it (I don't).

And Noble has every right to refuse reciprocal linking linking requests, and his reasons for doing so make perfect sense to him and tons of other webmastes.

That being said, you properly pointed out in your post that this thread is about reciprocal linking to competitors. The specific query was:


I've always wondered why these folks even try and whether they know something we don't ... LOL. Any comments?

The specific question was answered:

"Why do they try?" Because it works.

"Do they know something we don't?" I don't think so. You know what works for you. They know what works for them. Most of us are happy with the results of our own methods. If not, we would try something different.

What's "wise" for one may not be for all. Situations vary. People, personalities, and experiences vary.

There are many webmasters who are more than willing to accept reciprocal link offers, and generally both parties end up happy with the results.

Sometimes a reciprocal linking offer just doesn't make sense (as in your fine example). Other times it makes perfect sense. Wisdom is knowing how to recognize the difference.

[trmichels]

Greetings,

Since my sight is so diversified I link to as many of my competitors as I can (many of them are friends) because they don't all offer the same services, information or products I do. I also do not worry about the competition, because many of the products I offer are my own, most of the information I offer can be found nowhere else, and the services I offer are second to none.

As an outdoor writer I offer free articles to several (34+) competitive sites. I just started that in January of 2003, with the understanding that my contact info must be published with each article, and a permanent link to my site must appear on their site.

I also have my own message board/forum on my site, as well as 3 other sites, and I post on 4-5 more forums.

I've also started my own webring, with the hunting directory on my site. And I'm linked to 3-4 other webrings.

As an outdoor writer, seminar speaker, author and website owner, it's all about "personal" and "company" recognition.

Reciprocal site links, webrings, articles and forums work for me. My sales and recogniton are up by about 300 percent.

T.R. Michels
trmichels@yahoo.com
www.TRMichels.com

[janeth]

Quote:
I've always wondered why these folks even try and whether they know something we don't ... LOL. Any comments?


Quote:
The specific question was answered:

"Why do they try?" Because it works.

You said that very good rlrouse

[matauri]

Sometimes a reciprocal linking offer just doesn't make sense (as in your fine example). Other times it makes perfect sense. Wisdom is knowing how to recognize the difference.

Oh I agree...definately. As is the case in tourist towns where linking accomodations houses makes sound economical & financial sense, especially during peak holiday times. It creates a flow on effect.

The wise SEO should know when it will work & when it wont. But it shouldn't be preached to the masses as being the magical answer. Many businesses could be cutting their own throats by adopting that practice in the hope of furthering their companies listing.



Wisdom is knowing how to recognize the difference.


Cindy

[clivemcg]

My view is that if a visitor is on your web site you've won the battle already and agree with previous posts that linking to 'competitors' shows a confidence in your product and site.

Further having a separate 'Links' page to have outgoing links to, say, 10 of the top-ranked competitors in your field will do you no harm Google wise.

Since, presumably your visitor found you via a search engine they had the opportunity to click on those competitors sites anyway.I don't really believe that visitors looking for specific info (which hopefully your site provides) will bother going to your Links page anyway.

So get a few links in a separate 'Links' page - if you have people (clients/suppliers etc.) that offer reciprocal linking put them on a 'Our Partners' or 'Resources' page.

[speakak]

To link or not to link? That is the question we face when we receive e-mail from people asking us to make a link to their website, or when we are looking for link partners ourselves and find a prospective site. How can we decide if it is worthwhile to take the effort to make a link for such site? If we look at the fundamental reasons for making link exchanges in the first place, then it is easy to decide which link possibilities we should pursue and which we should drop.

To what are the most important reasons for exchanging links?
They are as follows:

1. To Get More Traffic To Our Websites:

People just love to follow links on the Internet. They love to poke around and follow their interests and see where it will lead. I know this from my own taste but more importantly, when I look at traffic logs for various websites, I see that link pages are very popular on many sites. So, if your site is well placed on link pages around the Internet you can definitely expect some additional traffic from these links.

Keeping this in mind. When you are reviewing the site of a potential link partner, take a look at how that site displays the links. Is the links page visible, and linked to the other pages of the website? Some people want to exchange links but they don't want people to leave their website through links to other websites, and they do not even provide a path to their link pages or make it very difficult to find. You can never get any additional traffic from a listing on a site like this, and if this is the case, you should just forget about linking.

Also, if the links are haphazardly arranged - 200 links on one page with no apparent order - your chances of getting traffic is also reduced. Will your link be buried in a huge directory, many layers removed from the main pages of the site? Look at the possible placement of your link, and judge it from the standpoint of visibility and its capacity to generate traffic to your site.

2. To Add Value To Your Website:

Your website is valuable to your visitors if it provides information that they need. The articles, products and other content that you publish is your first source of material for satisfying the needs of your visitors, but the links you provide can also make your site an important source of information and a convenient place for people to visit and revisit.

Accordingly, choose your links from the standpoint of satisfying the needs of your clientele. If your site is offering web hosting, for example, then it is likely that your visitors will also be interested in web design, graphics, software, website promotion, etc. By providing a directory of links to such products and services you will be adding value to your website.

Just as you carefully consider what products you are offering or what your own information articles contain, consider the value that the various links offer. Do the products or services look shoddy or below the standard of your website? If so, then do not go after the link. Is the product or service completely unrelated to your website? If so, then it doesn't really add much to the site.

A well constructed directory of valuable resource links that complement your own offerings should be your goal, and you should judge potential link partners on how well they fit into that picture.

Results in search engine queries are determined by the material you have presented on your web page, and by other off-page factors, such as, how many other sites link to your site. The concept of link popularity got a huge boost from Google whose PageRank system not only weighs the number of links that point to your site, but also the quality of those incoming links.

Indeed, if you make a query on Google as follows:
link: www.yoursite.com . You will get a list of sites that link to you. But not all the sites that link to you are in this list. Currently, they are only from web pages whose Google PageRank is 4 or higher. From this standpoint, in order to increase your results in Google, you need links from sites whose main pages have a high Google Page Rank and whose link pages are similarly well ranked.

Does this mean that we shouldn't link to sites if their PageRank is less than 4? Not necessarily. Remember, a page that is 0 today, can get higher ranking tomorrow. Also, just as you may be starting out from scratch, other sites are similarly beginning their life on the web and we should take this into account, and be farsighted.

Once you have weighed all the factors and considered the time you have available for linking arrangements, choose your linking partners. Work at your linking strategy diligently and carefully and you will be rewarded for your efforts.


About The Author
Donald Nelson is a web developer, editor and social worker. He has been working on the Internet since 1995, and is currently the director of A1-Optimization, a firm providing low-cost search engine optimization, submission and Internet marketing services. You can subscribe to his monthly newsletter, A1-Web Promotion Tips, by sending an e-mail to subscribe@a1-optimization.com.

[minstrel]

To link or not to link? That is the question we face when we receive e-mail from people asking us to make a link to their website, or when we are looking for link partners ourselves and find a prospective site....
Note: The above article was also published in the November 19, 2003, edition of SiteProNews.

[janeth]

Yes I got the same article today also

[clivemcg]

Thanks, but I for one don't need a verbatim 'Cut & Paste' of something I've already seen. If a contributor can only come up with that maybe they're in the wrong forum.

Would suggest in future you just provide a link which we can choose to visit or not.

[minstrel]

To be fair, speakak gave credit to the author so there was no suggestion of plagiarism there. In addition, it was an article of interest to members of this forum who may not have seen the newsletter. My addendum to speakak's post was intended to point out the other source, not to attack him/her for posting it.

I do agree that it might have been a better idea to post a short excerpt from the article with a link for people to read the remainder on line. But I also hope we can all presume good intent on the part of another member at least until there is clear evidence of bad intent.

[clivemcg]

Yes that's fair enough - apologies all around.

[speakak]

Minstrel
Sorry about omitting the title and author. I copied the text of the artical to my iSpeak text reader and as I was listening to it I thought it was inline with the topic on this message board so I quickley pasted it to this board. If you look at the end of the artical full credit is given to the author.

[minstrel]

If you look at the end of the article full credit is given to the author.
Hi, speakak:

Yes, I saw that and noted it in my post above, and as I said I don't have a problem with your post. The suggestion that you post a summary or brief excerpt with a link to the rest of the article might be something to consider in future but I agree that the article was of interest - I had thought about quoting it myself before I found your post.

[speakak]

Look's like I upset the forum. I don't normally have time to spend "pasting" messages to forum message boards, but I'm in the market for a message board software that I can use for a project. So I'm just trying several different ones as a demo. I'm not a webmaster or web developer just a poor ole boy that has to hire them to do some of my work. The way I make my money is reading everything I can and if it's of importance to my services I past it to a file and when I get a request for something I don't market I send the file or copy it to the return e-mail. My customers prefer that over sending them a URL. (COPY to my iSpeak text reader and COPY to a file or e-mail is my motto) GOOD LUCK TO ALL

[janeth]

Hi speakak,
The information you posted was great and you have not upset anyone.